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2014 NYG Draft Preview - Defensive Tackle

Sy'56 : 4/10/2014 8:23 am
Current Defensive Tackles on the NYG Roster:

Cullen Jenkins – 33 – Signed through 2015

Mike Patterson – 31 – Signed through 2014

Jonathan Hankins – 22 - Signed through 2016

Markus Kuhn – 28 – Signed through 2015


Where They Stand:


While the free agent acquisition period is not over yet, this appears to be the group that NYG will enter draft weekend with. It’s a very thin group that will hold this team back as it currently stands. Jenkins and Patterson are both overachieving, reliable veterans that can wear a few hats for their front. While I wouldn’t call them difference makers, they are at the very least guys that can be counted on. Hankins and Kuhn are the wildcards here, as they will be given the opportunity to fill the shoes of the departed Linval Joseph. I don’t have confidence in either of them to be the guy that needs to be in there for 80%+ of the defensive snaps, making opponents game plan around them. This group as a whole needs a fresh body or two that can contribute right away.


Top 10 Grades:

1 - Aaron Donald – Pittsburgh – 6’1/285: 85

2 – Rashede Hageman – Minnesota – 6’6/310: 80

3 – Stephon Tuitt – Notre Dame – 6’6/304: 79

4 – Brent Urban – Virginia – 6’7/295: 79

5 – DaQuan Jones – Penn State - 6’4/322: 78

6 – Timmy Jernigan – Florida State – 6’2/299: 78

7– Louis Nix III – Notre Dame – 6’2/331: 78

8 – Dominique Easley – Florida – 6’2/288: 76

9 – Taylor Hart – Oregon – 6’6/281: 76

10 – Kelcy Quarles – South Carolina – 6’4/297: 73


Day One Target:

Aaron Donald – Pittsburgh

I had a hard time accepting the fact that Donald was indeed one of the top players in the draft. I usually want guys with size inside, guys with consistent power presence that cannot be moved. But after watching almost 10+ games of Pittsburgh dating back to last year, I’m convinced Donald will be a star. He is the pass rushing presence that NYG has lacked inside for a long time and I think he is a better run defender than most will give him credit for. It’s easy to look at his size and say he can’t handle the physical power needed to anchor a position against the run. But when I scout him, I see a guy that can not only maintain position, but push linemen back, get off their blocks, and chase down the ball carrier like a linebacker. Donald will likely be my pick for NYG should be available at #12.

Runner Up: Rashede Hageman – Minnesota


Day Two Target:

Stephon Tuitt – Notre Dame

Tuitt could easily grade out as a first rounder if you go by is 2012 tape. He’s had a few physical issues over the past year and I did factor them in to his grade. Now with that said, I only have so much access to his medical information but from everyone I have spoken with and everything I have read, he should be at 100% by this summer. Tuitt played outside in ND’s 3-4 front, but I think he can easily move inside and play a Chris Canty-type role in a 4-3. He is enormous and very hard to move but also shows the short area quickness to beat blockers one on one. He is certainly a matchup problem because he can beat you a few different ways. If NYG ignores the defensive line in round one, Tuitt will likely be the guy I want in round two if he is still there.

Runner Up: DaQuan Jones – Penn State


Day Three Target:

Brent Urban – Virginia

Some view Urban as a 3-4 only player, but I disagree. When looking for defensive linemen, I am always looking for versatility. Urban can play outside in certain looks, even in a 4-3, but he can also play a three-technique role and control a couple inside gaps. I’ve even seen him play the A gap and make a difference. Urban plays a similar role and style as JJ Watt. While I don’t think he has the same upside, Urban could be a day three steal and I think he’ll be available early round 4. I love his ability to bend and pursue. He uses his hands and long arms to control blockers and he can get off them consistently. I can see him doing well here right away as a rotational defender and eventually becoming an every down difference maker because of his size, movement, and versatility.

Runner Up: Taylor Hart – Oregon


Most Overrated:

Anthony Johnson – LSU (59)

Johnson was one of the top recruits out of high school a few years ago, and rightfully so. I can remember watching his first college game and thinking he would eventually be a top 5 lock. But Johnson has failed to progress and if anything, he’s gone backwards since that first game. He looks the part and he’ll deliver some bone jarring hits here and there, but he is a poor defender play-to-play. He doesn’t anchor against single, straight blockers let alone double teams. He can’t reach the QB consistently, and he doesn’t have a long enough lasting motor. Nothing about his game is appealing to me, and I have him graded in the 7th/UDFA area. I see some labeling him a possible 2nd round pick and I question if that is simply a result of him being a top tier recruit years ago.

Runner Up: Daniel McCullers – Tennessee (64)



NYG Approach:

When looking at what is currently on the roster, I can’t see how anybody can refute the enormous need for another able body inside. NYG needs one of these rookies that can come in and contribute right away, and that’s not even accounting for any injuries to their current tackles. While they have a couple of serviceable, able bodies in there, none of these guys will alter the game plan of any offense. There is a severe lack of presence inside. This is not a group that linebackers will want to play behind nor will they take pressure of the ends against the pass. This class is a solid group of defensive tackles for days 1 and 2 of the draft and I am confident the right value will be there with one of their first three picks. The sooner the better, as I would put the need for a DT right up there with the offensive line as the top targets for the weekend.
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To expound on Sutton:  
Anakim : 4/10/2014 1:13 pm : link
Thomas Melton ‏@TMeltonScouting Apr 2
2012 Will Sutton will always have a special place in my heart. Whoever told him to bulk up should be publicly shamed.


Daniel Jeremiah ‏@MoveTheSticks Mar 26
I'm intrigued by ASU DT Will Sutton…gained too much weight this yr but he's still one of the better interior pass rushers in the draft.



Sutton apparently weighed in at his Pro Day at 295 and I believe he played around 315-320 all year so that's something to note. At 295, he may have regained the quickness he had during his Junior year.
good call on  
area junc : 4/10/2014 1:14 pm : link
sutton guys. would love him in round 3
Not high on Sutton  
Sy'56 : 4/10/2014 1:37 pm : link
unless we are talking about round 4/5. He can offer the pass rush but he is not an assignment based DT. He gets beat up against double teams and he looks overwhelmed against the quality blockers.

He did give Yankey a handful though, there is some talent there. I would simply prefer other guys,
RE: Its crazy  
GmenDynasty : 4/10/2014 1:43 pm : link
In comment 11614244 area junc said:
Quote:
How many people didnt notice how good hankins was last year. He has pro bowl ability

As for donald, he is very risky for us because he doesnt fit our scheme as an everydown player. Of course neither did marv austin and we took him anyway


When you have a chance for a talent like that you adjust the scheme to take advantage of his strengths. It can be done.
jlukes  
beatrixkiddo : 4/10/2014 2:08 pm : link
I had mentioned earlier in this thread Sutton as a target for a possible 3/4th rd selection. I think he has a lot of potential, very similar to Donald. Both guys are shorter, but have a lot of power and consistantly push the pocket. He's not as explosive, and his senior year with weight issues and a not so spectacular combine is the reason he will drop. I think he can be had in the 4th. and I wouldn't hesitate to take him if there in that round.

I think he's a capable starter with some NFL conditioning in this league. I think cbs has him compared to Geno Atkins, which I think is definetly the type of player Sutton can be.
RE: to BMac  
BMac : 4/10/2014 2:16 pm : link
In comment 11614362 area junc said:
Quote:
because we are a hold the point defense (building wall at LOS). penetration pisses ur teammates off on run downs as it creates gaps for the runner to exploit and makes everybody look bad

there are plenty of penetrating schemes around the league he would fit much better in

as a pass rusher, i love him but i want an everydown stud at 12. jmo, give me a guy who kicks ass and does not come off the field ever


He has more than adequately demonstrated that he can, indeed, "hold the line" but I think you're quite mistaken that this is what the Giants actually want from their D-Line interior. Yes, the 1-tech serves to be a bottleneck, but a really good 3-tech, which the Giants haven't had since Hammer, is an exact fit for their pass-rushing philosophy. He's one of the more perfect picks for the Giants tat has come along in recent years. I hope he's still there at 12; then it's in Jerry's lap.
Here is why donald makes sense  
Lionhart28 : 4/10/2014 2:22 pm : link
Let's not even look at it from a bpa/value perspective...

The Giants have a major need at DT and a major need at DE/pass-rusher. This guy would add legs to the DT rotation and would be an impact situational pass-rusher from day 1. He is definitely the guy I want at #12.

RE: No, Joe, the point is Defensive Tackles, hence the thread title.  
GmenDynasty : 4/10/2014 2:29 pm : link
In comment 11614225 Klaatu said:
Quote:
The point is that the Giants have been looking for a one-gap penetrator for a long time, without success. The point is that now they might have a chance to get a very good one, if they so desire. Everything else is irrelevant.


Explaining this organziation's premium they put on pass rush ability plays a major role in why we could potnetially want Donald.
My question to those looking for pass rusher  
beatrixkiddo : 4/10/2014 2:31 pm : link
Is would you take Barr or Donald assuming both are there at 12?

That's a tough one for me, While Barr may have a higher ceiling he is very raw and will absolutely be a project with many question marks. Donald, you know what he is capable of, but will it translate against bigger, and better OL in the NFL.
Great  
AcidTest : 4/10/2014 2:34 pm : link
write up as usual.

Donald, Jones, Urban, and Bromley are my favorites. I hope we get at least one. There is also Ellis from Louisiana Tech. Kerr is also worth late round consideration from what I hear.
No doubt Sy nailed this aspect of need at DT:  
BlueLou : 4/10/2014 2:39 pm : link
Quote:
This group as a whole needs a fresh body or two that can contribute right away.


So if Donald is there at 12, I have a hard time imagining the Giants passing him up, assuming Sy's grade and assessment are correct.

Last time (prior to Hankins) the Giants drafted a big jamook space eater type DT Linval Joseph, the next year they took the supposed complementary piece 3 Tech DT in round 2 - Marvin Austin. Austin turned out to be bag of wind, so finally they gave up on him last year and scrounged through the FA heap to sign Jenkins and Patterson, who've been OK stopgaps, but they are not answers.

They will likely grab a DT high this year again, and Donald stands out, and he'd be the complementary 3 to Hankins 1.
Can Brent Urban grow into another Chris  
PeterS : 4/10/2014 3:29 pm : link
Canty? Both 6-7/295 at draft time. Both UVa grads.
RE: My question to those looking for pass rusher  
muhajir : 4/10/2014 3:47 pm : link
In comment 11614546 beatrixkiddo said:
Quote:
Is would you take Barr or Donald assuming both are there at 12?

That's a tough one for me, While Barr may have a higher ceiling he is very raw and will absolutely be a project with many question marks. Donald, you know what he is capable of, but will it translate against bigger, and better OL in the NFL.


I'd go Donald. Pass rush up the middle is much more disruptive then pass rush off the edge.
RE: gidiefor  
gidiefor : 4/10/2014 4:36 pm : link
In comment 11613947 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
Again...very shortsighted. Starting or not....Donald would make a huge impact on this team in year one. The starting lineup is about as important as what round a QB is drafted in when looking back on their career and evaluating.

If you restrict yourself to just 2 or 3 positions for a first round pick, you limit yourself. You can't limit yourself when trying to build a team via the draft, it's foolish.


Short-sighted????

I think the view of Donald supporters is MyOpIcally rose colored -

In my view the Giants can't afford to indulge in this type of thinking - They must do something about the Offensive Line and Offensive Skill players - and this year's draft has the depth in those areas to make it so

I'm like Jon Snow  
D HOS : 4/10/2014 4:50 pm : link
I know (practically) nothing. But I feel skeptical that an undersized DT who is getting it done in a big way against College guards can do that against Pro interior linemen. I'll grant you the talent but Pro o-line are talented too (at least ones that don't play on the Giants). Much more than college linemen. However no arguing that we need DT's bad and you can only pick who's there. If he's the best... Is there not more sizable DT's who are good enough that we could take a chance on?
I don't think Tuitt is anything but a 3-4 DE.  
Shockeyisthebest80 : 4/10/2014 5:11 pm : link
When he was moved inside in 2013 after Nix's injury, he looked awful (Air Force game in particular). He just doesn't play low enough to be successful there. He's also too big (even at optimal weight) for a 4-3 DE, although some 4-3 defenses like Seattle and JAX play personnel similar to a 3-4. I think he's got a ton of talent, but I think both Tuitt and Nix are really one position players for a certain type of defense.
gidiefor  
Sy'56 : 4/10/2014 6:29 pm : link
so if NYG goes with Donald in round 1, that means they won't be able to improve the OL?
D HOS  
Sy'56 : 4/10/2014 6:31 pm : link
Geno Atkins
Sy your assessment of the current DT group is overly negative  
Torrag : 4/10/2014 7:01 pm : link
Hankins is a 2nd rounder going into his second season. He flashed at times last season. The experience he gained will be invaluable to him in progressing to the next level. You act as if second year high draft picks don't accelerate their progress. IMO he could become a force to be reckoned with that opponents will have to account for down in and down out.

Jenkins needs an heir apparent but played quite well both in the ground attack and as an effective pass rusher and backfield disruptor. He showed no reason why we shouldn't expect a similar campaign this year.

I agree the position needs better quality depth but the cupboard isn't nearly as bare as your analysis indicates.
Sy  
gidiefor : 4/10/2014 7:37 pm : link
if the Giants go with Donald instead of using a premium pick in an extreme area of need that they've neglected - that would be foolish - especially considering that Donald doesn't fit the general parameters and body type of a "Giant"
Maybe I'm missing something  
Bill in UT : 4/10/2014 7:44 pm : link
but has there ever been any college player who has been judged on anything other than how he played against other college players? Some of you talk like some of these guys proved themselves in a season against NFL players before being drafted.
If Donald is there at 12  
Jay on the Island : 4/10/2014 8:35 pm : link
I think he might be the BPA on the Giants board. This is not a great year for DE's and there is no one that is available at 12 that will be worth the pick. If the Giants want to improve the pass rush then Donald may be the answer.
RE: Sy  
GmenDynasty : 4/10/2014 9:04 pm : link
In comment 11615023 gidiefor said:
Quote:
if the Giants go with Donald instead of using a premium pick in an extreme area of need that they've neglected - that would be foolish - especially considering that Donald doesn't fit the general parameters and body type of a "Giant"


Gids where have they neglected. The signed one of the top OGs on the FA market. A center who they probably evaluated as healthy and was very good when healthy. And a couple depth/potential starters in Brown/Jerry.

Is it a need area . Yes. But not nearly as desperate as before. Lastly we can for the millionth time get a damn good OL at 43.

You take the BPA who is on another tier than everyone else in Donald then get a plug and play OL @43. Then nab a WR and TE in rounds 3-4.
While I think Donald would be an excellent pick at 12  
Jay on the Island : 4/10/2014 9:20 pm : link
If the Giants do not add more talent to the OL then it won't matter if Donald has 16 sacks because fixing the seasons hinges on Eli playing significantly better than he did last year. In order for that to happen he needs much better play from the OL and another weapon at WR and TE. Schwartz was a great addition but Walton is a big ? and Jerry and Brown are excellent depth but not someone we want to see start multiple games.
RE: While I think Donald would be an excellent pick at 12  
GmenDynasty : 4/10/2014 9:51 pm : link
In comment 11615194 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
If the Giants do not add more talent to the OL then it won't matter if Donald has 16 sacks because fixing the seasons hinges on Eli playing significantly better than he did last year. In order for that to happen he needs much better play from the OL and another weapon at WR and TE. Schwartz was a great addition but Walton is a big ? and Jerry and Brown are excellent depth but not someone we want to see start multiple games.


If they go Donald round 1 they MUST go OL in round 2 or latest 3. They should be able to pluck a very good and possible day 1 starter at 43 and perhaps even in round 3.
Well perhaps not...  
BlueLou : 4/10/2014 10:01 pm : link
Quote:
...Jerry and Brown are excellent depth but not someone we want to see start multiple games.


But they are at least almost certainly better than DD or Brewer were last year. Schwartz is an upgrade over Boothe. Walton hopefully an upgrade over Cordle.

Maybe even Brown is an upgrade over a very troubled Beatty last year, or a motivational tool to push Beatty at least.

I don't get the optimism about our DTs unless one assumes Kuhn is ready to bust out.
The Giants could do worse than Donald..  
Blue Blood : 4/10/2014 10:34 pm : link
MUCH worse..
The Rookie Scouting Portfolio  
Torn Tendon : 4/10/2014 11:02 pm : link
"I’m not a betting man, but if I were, Aaron Donald would be one of two players in this deep draft class that I’d have no reservations betting on as a future star.

Aaron Donald is as promising as Geno Atkins (of the Bengals)."
Futures: Pittsburgh DT Aaron Donald - ( New Window )
Using the rankings in the OP  
Modus Operandi : 4/10/2014 11:03 pm : link
It appears Urban projects to the 2nd or 3rd round. I just don't see it. Guy seems like a total stiff to me. We already have one of those guys and we got him in the 7th.
Waldman continues:  
Torn Tendon : 4/10/2014 11:30 pm : link
"I also love Donald’s creativity. When I wrote about Kyle Van Noy two weeks ago, Ryan Riddle explained to me that offenses want to force defenders to make predictable decisions. Its players like Van Noy who offenses fear most, because they possess a creative-disruptive approach that forces the offense to think rather than react. That can destroy the rhythm of a play."
I'm hoping Dallas trades  
bob in tx : 4/10/2014 11:33 pm : link
up to take Donald.
Sy...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/11/2014 12:10 am : link
hoping you see this so you can address a question. Donald has on more than one occasion been referred to as a "once in a decade" talent on this website. I see what you have written, but wonder if you would give us a relative ranking - do you see that kind of praise as hyperbole? How does he stack up over the previous several years of DT's in your opinion?

Thanks!
Jernigan sixth?  
BigBlueBuff : 4/11/2014 12:45 am : link
Haha! What tape are you watching?
RE: Jernigan sixth?  
Anakim : 4/11/2014 1:18 am : link
In comment 11615411 BigBlueBuff said:
Quote:
Haha! What tape are you watching?


The National Championship game when he kept checking out of the game...



Joking. To be fair, he was sick.
RE: No reason not to pay Joseph  
Optimus-NY : 4/11/2014 2:59 am : link
In comment 11614282 TMS said:
Quote:
We had the money obviously. Now we will probably pay the price.


You misunderstand the point of not paying him. IT was not wise to pay him for a number of reasons:

Quote:
A - The 1-technique DT position is not the premier position of the 2 DT positions in a 403 front from a cap perspective; Linval was going to command a pretty penny, which he did. Lin-Jo's cap number with the Vikings is $6.6M for 2014, as indicated at the bottom of this post. Lin-Jo's cash # for 2014 is a whopping $9M.

B - The replacement for Lin-Jo is on the roster already for the 1-technique spot in the person of Johnatahn Hankins, last year's 2nd round pick. Hankins's 2014 cap # is $916,068 (his cash # is $588,213).


If you compare the difference between Lin-Jo's and Hankins's cap and cash numbers, it becomes easy to understand why the Giants didn't pony up and pay Lin-Jo, and that's without taking into consideration other positions and the future expenditures that are slated to take place (i.e., paying JPP, paying Prince, extending Eli next year, setting aside money for another big money acquisition at another position that is traditionally more costly in cap dollars than the 1-technique position is, etc).

The cap space saved from not pursuing Linval was $5,683,932. This amount of cap space allowed the Giants to go out and get some key players. Take Jon Beason (2014 cap # of $3,141,666) and Geoff Schwartz (2014 cap # of $2,325,000) for instance. Combine the 2014 cap numbers for Beason and Schwartz and you get a total of $5,466,666.

This is roughly what the Giants gained by letting Lin-Jo walk, not even counting the replacement already on the roster in Hankins. The Giants just need to find a back-up 1-technique DY to take the place of Hankins as the backup last year in their rotation in 2014 and going forward. That's how roster management works. Would you trade Lin-Jo for those three? (Hankins was not going to stick around after his rookie contract to back-up Lin-Jo, especially since he's not really a 3-technique at this level). It's chess, not checkers.


Linval Joseph's salary cap page from overthecap.com - 2014 Vikings' team page - ( New Window )
Optimus, under  
bob in tx : 4/11/2014 6:44 am : link
your reasoning, Hankins & his agent better start looking for a new team as he'll never be offered a 2nd contract.
Dan in the Springs  
Sy'56 : 4/11/2014 6:52 am : link
I wouldn't put Donald in to the "special tier". For my grading system, guys that finish with a 90+ grade are considered to be elite, I only have a few of them every year. Clowney is the only guy up there this year.

Here are the names that Donald compares to over the past few years (within 1 point better or worse)

2013 - Sheldon Richardson, Sharif Floyd

2012 - Dontari Poe

2011 - Phil Taylor, Marcell Dareus

2010 - NONE



Here are the names that Donald finished BEHIND by more than a point

2013 - Star Lotulelei

2012 - Michael Brockers

2011 - NONE

2010 - Gerald McCoy, Ndamukong Suh

Sy'56, thanks for posting this...  
EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) : 4/11/2014 7:54 am : link
" It’s a very thin group that will hold this team back as it currently stands."

I agree. In fact, the same should be said for the offensive line. When you consider the fact that we essentially have been dominated on the line of scrimmage lately, we can expect no change in that area IF we went into the season with today's roster. This is why I am not as optimistic as others after the flurry of free agent signings. Yes, we see improvement in other areas (away from the line of scrimmage) but not in the areas where you can control the game.

So, we will have to see not only what happens in the draft but what Reese is able to do in the free agent market through July.
in 2007 we won the SB because Brady had no time to throw  
SGMen : 4/11/2014 8:13 am : link
Our DL was dominant and in today's league you must rush the QB or you lose.

That is why I like Donald in Round 1. He is super strong and will be an excellent NFL player. Austin was lazy from what I hear and that is why he failed. Donald doesn't have that rep.
I don't think that's a logical conclusion  
beatrixkiddo : 4/11/2014 9:17 am : link
to optimuses point bob.

In a couple more years when Hankins contract is up, maybe the team will have the room to resign him. Given the way last season panned out, and the team clearly trying to factor in keeping guys like JPP, they drafted to replace positions that were more expendable. I'm sure they would have loved to keep Joseph, just not at the expense of not retaining their best player on the DL, and tying their hands with other FA acquisitions. It was more or less just timing and luck of the draw.
RE: Sy'56, thanks for posting this...  
Simms11 : 4/11/2014 9:20 am : link
In comment 11615466 EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) said:
Quote:
" It’s a very thin group that will hold this team back as it currently stands."

I agree. In fact, the same should be said for the offensive line. When you consider the fact that we essentially have been dominated on the line of scrimmage lately, we can expect no change in that area IF we went into the season with today's roster. This is why I am not as optimistic as others after the flurry of free agent signings. Yes, we see improvement in other areas (away from the line of scrimmage) but not in the areas where you can control the game.

So, we will have to see not only what happens in the draft but what Reese is able to do in the free agent market through July.


All of the Free Agents brought in have some skill and have NFL experience. Different systems and a change of scenary can sometimes create successful results. For some, the light-bulb comes on and they improve. There's also the impact of other players around you... so you never really know how they'll perform until they start to play some pre-season games together. I, for one, remain optimistic. I think an addition of a back-up center and tackle, from the draft, will make folks a little more comfortable and I will be as well. Right now it's not necessarily skill that I'm concerned about, along the oline, but health of the LT, RG and Center. If those three come into camp relatively healthy, I think they will come together quite well.

On the DLine, I think the same can be said, but we do need that difference maker to go along with a rejuvenated JPP and an improved Moore. I think Donald will provide that energy and enthusiasm that is needed along the DLine. He's strong and quick. I don't think he'll be that much of a risk. He's a guy that will continue to work hard and improve too. Draft Donald in round 1, then focus on offense for the next few rounds (WR, TE, OL, etc).
Thanks Sy...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/11/2014 9:30 am : link
It is good to see that kind of comparison too - his number sticks out compared to this year's crop.
Optimus  
Aceman : 4/11/2014 10:31 am : link
I respect your expertise regarding the NFL cap, but I found your analysis in this thread to be misleading and short sighted. The savings from not signing Linval Joseph allowed Reese to purchase Beason and Schwartz for 2014, but you conveniently omitted the fact that it will pay for only one of them in 2015 and beyond. In addition, Letting Joseph go has nothing to do with keeping Hankins on the roster.

If you had continued your analysis to 2015, it would show that the cap number for Joseph is $4.6 million while the combined cap for Beason and Schwartz is a whopping $12.3 million. The cap for Beason alone is $7.4 million. So, in 2015, who would you rather have -- Linval Joseph plus an extra $2.8 million to spend, or Jon Beason and no money?

I would not call what Reese did solid cap management. It's just another example of kicking the can down the road and mortgaging the future.
I would not  
PaulN : 4/11/2014 11:37 am : link
Care if Donald was not an every down player, if he was just a rotational player, But, he penetrated the opposing offenses backfield, that would be good enough. The thing is this, can he perform anything like he did in college oon this level, any person who speaks to this like he knows, is a nut job, because we simply do not know, if he could, he would be the first pick in the draft, if we all knew he could translate that kind of performance. But we don't know, none of us know. Is he worth the gamble at 12, that is the tricky question here. You simply can not blow a 12th pick, people here do not seem to understand that fully, they are more interested in being right so they can toot thier horns, I am not interested in that bullshit, I grew up a long time ago. I am interested in the Giants team, I would like to see the team compete once again on the big stage.
RE: Optimus, under  
Optimus-NY : 4/11/2014 11:38 am : link
In comment 11615444 bob in tx said:
Quote:
your reasoning, Hankins & his agent better start looking for a new team as he'll never be offered a 2nd contract.


It wouldn't be surprising considering that Hankins's last 2 predecessors did just that. Cofield's and Linval's agents did right by their respective clients. The Giants don't traditionally pay a lot to their 1-technique DT.
Paul....  
Wonderphil11 : 4/11/2014 11:41 am : link
As other's have said, that's the question every team has to answer about EVERY prospect, not just Donald.
RE: Optimus  
Optimus-NY : 4/11/2014 12:07 pm : link
In comment 11615714 Aceman said:
Quote:
I respect your expertise regarding the NFL cap, but I found your analysis in this thread to be misleading and short sighted. The savings from not signing Linval Joseph allowed Reese to purchase Beason and Schwartz for 2014, but you conveniently omitted the fact that it will pay for only one of them in 2015 and beyond. In addition, Letting Joseph go has nothing to do with keeping Hankins on the roster.

If you had continued your analysis to 2015, it would show that the cap number for Joseph is $4.6 million while the combined cap for Beason and Schwartz is a whopping $12.3 million. The cap for Beason alone is $7.4 million. So, in 2015, who would you rather have -- Linval Joseph plus an extra $2.8 million to spend, or Jon Beason and no money?

I would not call what Reese did solid cap management. It's just another example of kicking the can down the road and mortgaging the future.


We'll just agree to disagree. I still think that not re-signing Linval was the correct course of action. You have a limited allocation of money for a position that the Giants just don't invest a lot of cap space into. You have to save where you can, whenever you can. It goes beyond Beason and Schwartz. The flexibility needed to manage the roster decreases with Linval on the team at this point in his career. It's a common-sense approach to cap management.

The decision to not re-sign Linval was coming from a mile away. Besides, the space from the two players I mentioned would still be available if they were to be cut---space that would be allocated to Linval. In the NFL today you don't look past 2 or 3 years when it comes to cap management. I bet you money that Beason and Schwartz won't be on this team come 2017.
RE: I would not  
GmenDynasty : 4/11/2014 8:25 pm : link
In comment 11615854 PaulN said:
Quote:
Care if Donald was not an every down player, if he was just a rotational player, But, he penetrated the opposing offenses backfield, that would be good enough. The thing is this, can he perform anything like he did in college oon this level, any person who speaks to this like he knows, is a nut job, because we simply do not know, if he could, he would be the first pick in the draft, if we all knew he could translate that kind of performance. But we don't know, none of us know. Is he worth the gamble at 12, that is the tricky question here. You simply can not blow a 12th pick, people here do not seem to understand that fully, they are more interested in being right so they can toot thier horns, I am not interested in that bullshit, I grew up a long time ago. I am interested in the Giants team, I would like to see the team compete once again on the big stage.


Nothing is guaranteed in life dude. What's your point?

You play the percentages. Donald has dominated EVERYTHING from on film to Senior Bowl practices to Senior Bowl Game to the combine. Has has great character and work ethic. He has been relatively injury free. That sounds like a damn good percentage play to me at 12 should he make it.
Donald vs Atkins  
D HOS : 4/12/2014 1:06 am : link
Donald seen as an Atkins do-over.
Donald vs Atkins - ( New Window )
I understand the fixation on Donald  
santacruzom : 4/15/2014 6:04 pm : link
But I'm just at the point where I'd be stunned if a team ahead of us doesn't take him.
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