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2014 NYG Draft Preview - Defensive Tackle

Sy'56 : 4/10/2014 8:23 am
Current Defensive Tackles on the NYG Roster:

Cullen Jenkins – 33 – Signed through 2015

Mike Patterson – 31 – Signed through 2014

Jonathan Hankins – 22 - Signed through 2016

Markus Kuhn – 28 – Signed through 2015


Where They Stand:


While the free agent acquisition period is not over yet, this appears to be the group that NYG will enter draft weekend with. It’s a very thin group that will hold this team back as it currently stands. Jenkins and Patterson are both overachieving, reliable veterans that can wear a few hats for their front. While I wouldn’t call them difference makers, they are at the very least guys that can be counted on. Hankins and Kuhn are the wildcards here, as they will be given the opportunity to fill the shoes of the departed Linval Joseph. I don’t have confidence in either of them to be the guy that needs to be in there for 80%+ of the defensive snaps, making opponents game plan around them. This group as a whole needs a fresh body or two that can contribute right away.


Top 10 Grades:

1 - Aaron Donald – Pittsburgh – 6’1/285: 85

2 – Rashede Hageman – Minnesota – 6’6/310: 80

3 – Stephon Tuitt – Notre Dame – 6’6/304: 79

4 – Brent Urban – Virginia – 6’7/295: 79

5 – DaQuan Jones – Penn State - 6’4/322: 78

6 – Timmy Jernigan – Florida State – 6’2/299: 78

7– Louis Nix III – Notre Dame – 6’2/331: 78

8 – Dominique Easley – Florida – 6’2/288: 76

9 – Taylor Hart – Oregon – 6’6/281: 76

10 – Kelcy Quarles – South Carolina – 6’4/297: 73


Day One Target:

Aaron Donald – Pittsburgh

I had a hard time accepting the fact that Donald was indeed one of the top players in the draft. I usually want guys with size inside, guys with consistent power presence that cannot be moved. But after watching almost 10+ games of Pittsburgh dating back to last year, I’m convinced Donald will be a star. He is the pass rushing presence that NYG has lacked inside for a long time and I think he is a better run defender than most will give him credit for. It’s easy to look at his size and say he can’t handle the physical power needed to anchor a position against the run. But when I scout him, I see a guy that can not only maintain position, but push linemen back, get off their blocks, and chase down the ball carrier like a linebacker. Donald will likely be my pick for NYG should be available at #12.

Runner Up: Rashede Hageman – Minnesota


Day Two Target:

Stephon Tuitt – Notre Dame

Tuitt could easily grade out as a first rounder if you go by is 2012 tape. He’s had a few physical issues over the past year and I did factor them in to his grade. Now with that said, I only have so much access to his medical information but from everyone I have spoken with and everything I have read, he should be at 100% by this summer. Tuitt played outside in ND’s 3-4 front, but I think he can easily move inside and play a Chris Canty-type role in a 4-3. He is enormous and very hard to move but also shows the short area quickness to beat blockers one on one. He is certainly a matchup problem because he can beat you a few different ways. If NYG ignores the defensive line in round one, Tuitt will likely be the guy I want in round two if he is still there.

Runner Up: DaQuan Jones – Penn State


Day Three Target:

Brent Urban – Virginia

Some view Urban as a 3-4 only player, but I disagree. When looking for defensive linemen, I am always looking for versatility. Urban can play outside in certain looks, even in a 4-3, but he can also play a three-technique role and control a couple inside gaps. I’ve even seen him play the A gap and make a difference. Urban plays a similar role and style as JJ Watt. While I don’t think he has the same upside, Urban could be a day three steal and I think he’ll be available early round 4. I love his ability to bend and pursue. He uses his hands and long arms to control blockers and he can get off them consistently. I can see him doing well here right away as a rotational defender and eventually becoming an every down difference maker because of his size, movement, and versatility.

Runner Up: Taylor Hart – Oregon


Most Overrated:

Anthony Johnson – LSU (59)

Johnson was one of the top recruits out of high school a few years ago, and rightfully so. I can remember watching his first college game and thinking he would eventually be a top 5 lock. But Johnson has failed to progress and if anything, he’s gone backwards since that first game. He looks the part and he’ll deliver some bone jarring hits here and there, but he is a poor defender play-to-play. He doesn’t anchor against single, straight blockers let alone double teams. He can’t reach the QB consistently, and he doesn’t have a long enough lasting motor. Nothing about his game is appealing to me, and I have him graded in the 7th/UDFA area. I see some labeling him a possible 2nd round pick and I question if that is simply a result of him being a top tier recruit years ago.

Runner Up: Daniel McCullers – Tennessee (64)



NYG Approach:

When looking at what is currently on the roster, I can’t see how anybody can refute the enormous need for another able body inside. NYG needs one of these rookies that can come in and contribute right away, and that’s not even accounting for any injuries to their current tackles. While they have a couple of serviceable, able bodies in there, none of these guys will alter the game plan of any offense. There is a severe lack of presence inside. This is not a group that linebackers will want to play behind nor will they take pressure of the ends against the pass. This class is a solid group of defensive tackles for days 1 and 2 of the draft and I am confident the right value will be there with one of their first three picks. The sooner the better, as I would put the need for a DT right up there with the offensive line as the top targets for the weekend.
Excellent as always Sy. I agree with your assessment of the current  
Victor in CT : 4/10/2014 8:39 am : link
DTs. It is why is I was very disheartened when they didn't match for Linval Joseph. I'd Like Hankins a lot better with LJ here and Jenkins/Patterson as rotation fodder. I get the cap thing and prioritization , but DT was one of the few strong points on the roster and now it is a question mark.

I still think they have to go OL in the 1st round.
Great write up,  
barens : 4/10/2014 8:39 am : link
Nice write up on Urban too.
Seems like slim pickings outside of Donald and Tuitt.  
Curtis in VA : 4/10/2014 8:43 am : link
.
Great stuff...  
Dunedin81 : 4/10/2014 8:45 am : link
curious as to your take on Hageman. I don't see value for the 12th pick, but is he a Top 20 or Top 25 guy in your opinion?
I'd look at Tuitt and Jones at #43  
JonC : 4/10/2014 8:49 am : link
otherwise the position probably waits, I doubt we go this route at #12.
Dunedin  
Sy'56 : 4/10/2014 8:51 am : link
That is exactly right. Hageman won't even be a consideration at #12 overall, but should they find themselves drafting somewhere in the mid-to-high 20s, he may be an option.

Hageman is a gamble, definitely not a safe pick. He has elite tools and some tape where he looks unblockable. Very good get off at the point of attack and he can really move. My issue with him is the lack of consistency and it appears he doesn't care much about technique and the little things. He spent a lot of time on the sideline relative to most starting defensive linemen of his caliber, so thats a bit odd. But if he can put some things together, he can be a big time player.
Needs to become more consistent  
Mike in NY : 4/10/2014 8:53 am : link
but thoughts on Jay Bromley out of Syracuse?
Mike in NY  
Sy'56 : 4/10/2014 8:56 am : link
Bromley can play. I gave him a 69...an area reserved for guys in the round 5 area. He is worth taking at that point because he moves well and plays stronger than his listed size. If he can gain some bulk to his frame, I think he can be a player.
I'd be really happy  
illmatic : 4/10/2014 8:57 am : link
to nab Donald at 12. Screw Ebron and Evans.
NY Giants  
gidiefor : Mod : 4/10/2014 8:58 am : link
Last Year
8th in Defense
30th in Offense

Now where should there priority be - especially considering that Donald does not fit the stated profile of Giant on the line
thats true gidie,  
Curtis in VA : 4/10/2014 9:02 am : link
but given the hole in the defensive line right now I doubt the defense could finish 8th again this year.

Conversely, given the additions made to the offensive line I doubt the offense would finish so low as 30th too.
What's your take on Hankins?  
GIANTSr01 : 4/10/2014 9:02 am : link
From that writeup you don't seem confident that he can step into the starting spot. Is that just caution (i.e he has to prove it first) or are you not high on him?
gidiefor  
Sy'56 : 4/10/2014 9:04 am : link
That is extremely shortsighted.
RE: NY Giants  
GIANTSr01 : 4/10/2014 9:04 am : link
In comment 11613837 gidiefor said:
Quote:
Last Year
8th in Defense
30th in Offense

Now where should there priority be - especially considering that Donald does not fit the stated profile of Giant on the line


But they lost arguably their best player along the DL in Joseph and Ayers/Kiwi is a step down from Tuck. Granted they massively upgraded the secondary, but it's hard to look at the DL right now and expect them to be as good as last years.

My Draft Prescription:
#12 - Donald
Rds 2-6: offense
Jones size is intriging  
Reale01 : 4/10/2014 9:05 am : link
What are your thoughts on him? He seems to fit the NYG profile for a DT.
Runner Up: Daniel McCullers – Tennessee  
Motley Blue : 4/10/2014 9:06 am : link

This dude is freaking huge. 6'7" 352lbs.
I seriously doubt Donald would start this year  
gidiefor : Mod : 4/10/2014 9:06 am : link
either
gidie  
GIANTSr01 : 4/10/2014 9:07 am : link
They also upgraded 2 spots on the OL with Schwartz and Walton (3 if you anticipate Pugh taking a step forward) and upgraded the RB position. They still have some work to do (TE, OG, maybe #1 WR), but the offense is already improved.
Sy,  
Big Blue '56 : 4/10/2014 9:07 am : link
likelihood that Jernigan is our pick at 43 if Tuitt is gone and we have not gone DT at 12?
RE: I seriously doubt Donald would start this year  
GIANTSr01 : 4/10/2014 9:08 am : link
In comment 11613853 gidiefor said:
Quote:
either


Nope. Jenkins and Hankins are the likely starters. But TC loves rotating his DTs and there's probably 20-30 snaps available for Donald right from the start.
gidie,  
Curtis in VA : 4/10/2014 9:10 am : link
but there's no guarantee that an O-lineman or WR or TE would start either.

And I don't think Donald has to start. He would make the rotation in the middle much healthier though. He can still have a big impact, not only on his own but also in keeping the old farts (Patterson, Jenkins) fresh. =)
Sy what's your take on Vincent Valentine?  
Spark Em Up 22 : 4/10/2014 9:13 am : link
I know he was just a freshman last year, but he's hard to miss on the field. Do you think he will be a high draft pick one day?
Pugh started  
gidiefor : Mod : 4/10/2014 9:15 am : link
last year

if you want to know where the most immediate impact would be from a rookie position it's one that will make Eli better

there are only two positions that will make Eli better right now - a very good Offensive Lineman and a tall downfield receiver that can go up for the ball

Those have to be the primary targets at pick #01 with preference for the line because the receiver won't start right away either - the lineman can probably start

I think Donald is a great player - but I seriously doubt they pick that way in the first round this year
Who cares if Donald starts...  
Wonderphil11 : 4/10/2014 9:17 am : link
it's about immediate impact and he has that in spades....he is a pocket disrupter who consistently beats his man to his spot and moves the QB of his spot....IMO, that is THE most important aspect in disrupting a passing game, as was proven in the Super Bowl this year and both of the Giants recent Super Bowl wins.
Heavy percentages against a rookie starting  
JonC : 4/10/2014 9:17 am : link
take the BPA, don't pass up a talent by reaching for a lesser talent.
Make that....  
Wonderphil11 : 4/10/2014 9:21 am : link
moves the QB "off of his spot".

One more thing, what was the worst part of the Oline this year? One could certainly argue it was Beatty but I would suggest it was the interior.....and, look at the kind of season Eli had with all that pressure up the middle.
Even if the Giants think Donald is a year away from real impact...  
Dunedin81 : 4/10/2014 9:24 am : link
(as some of their recent DT picks have been handled), if they think he's an impact 3-technique I still think they pull the trigger. A GM who wants to keep his job has at least a 2-3 year horizon.
When I see tape of Nix  
WillieYoung : 4/10/2014 9:24 am : link
I immediately think Vince wolfolk. He's be a great get at 43.
Great insight  
SamdaGiantsFan : 4/10/2014 9:29 am : link
really appreaciate the time to lay this out for us BBI faithful. I am excited at the potential of grabbing Donald, he can really change this defense. Would have liked to hear your analysis into Hageman, because I am a fan and if Donald goes in the top 10-which I'm starting to think could very well happen-I think Hageman represents a potential pick for us at 12. A bit of a reach at 12 no doubt, but a classic Reese like upside pick would not surprise me.
Giantsr01  
Sy'56 : 4/10/2014 9:30 am : link
I wasn't high on Hankins as a prospect a year ago, so yes I am a little nervous about his ability to be the guy inside. He showed a couple things last year that I liked, but it wasn't enough for me. He can be a nice option, but he isn't a guy that I am basing draft weekend decisions around.
just saw  
SamdaGiantsFan : 4/10/2014 9:31 am : link
your Hageman comment, nevermind
Thanks Sy  
sjnyfan : 4/10/2014 9:31 am : link
I think this is a sneaky good DT class this year with several starters over the next few years, but none better than Donald. I really, really want him in blue. He'll change the defense for the better almost immediately.

What are your thoughts on Princeton's Caraun Reid? I think he would be a nice consolation to Donald if for whatever reason he doesn't reach us. I've been high on him since last season and I think he's the best defensive player from the Ivy since Marcellus Wiley back in '97.

Also thoughts on Zack Kerr from Delaware? Another Day 3 pick, but I think he can be a very successful run stuffer with some pass rush ability as well.

Sy- glad you see it too!  
GmenDynasty : 4/10/2014 9:33 am : link
Quote:


Day One Target:

Aaron Donald – Pittsburgh

I had a hard time accepting the fact that Donald was indeed one of the top players in the draft. I usually want guys with size inside, guys with consistent power presence that cannot be moved. But after watching almost 10+ games of Pittsburgh dating back to last year, I’m convinced Donald will be a star. He is the pass rushing presence that NYG has lacked inside for a long time and I think he is a better run defender than most will give him credit for. It’s easy to look at his size and say he can’t handle the physical power needed to anchor a position against the run. But when I scout him, I see a guy that can not only maintain position, but push linemen back, get off their blocks, and chase down the ball carrier like a linebacker. Donald will likely be my pick for NYG should be available at #12.


We may not agree on alot of evaluations on other guys namely Dennard (who I think will be better than Gilbert),Gilbert (lack of football instincts), Mack (who I still can't beleive you have Mosley rated equally or slightly better).

Anyone who watches enough film of Donald and has even the slightest eye for football talent can not deny how much this kid jumps off the screen with his talent.

Alot of these first round picks this year in this loaded draft are likely going to be very good and even pro-bowlers. Donald though has the look of a once in a decade type talent. He will likely be clear cut BPA when we pick should he make it to 12.

Reale: DaQuan Jones  
Sy'56 : 4/10/2014 9:33 am : link
I think he is really good, and could be a borderline elite run defender. Not a guy that will show up at the pro bowl every year, but certainly a guy that makes a difference with his ability to eat space, blockers, and make the occasional pay behind the line.
Sy  
The Natural : 4/10/2014 9:35 am : link
These draft previews are the best. I don't watch a lot of college ball so these summarize players I haven't seen.
Thank you.
BB'56  
Sy'56 : 4/10/2014 9:36 am : link
Jernigan at 43 is a possibility. He is a similar type player to Donald...a little undersized but plays big and is often too quick for most interior guys to handle one on one. He doesn't hold the point of attack as well though, and I think his play to play contribution will be limited at the start. But the upside is there. Definitely an option for round 2.
I think our Defense would have also  
beatrixkiddo : 4/10/2014 9:36 am : link
ranked higher had we not had one of the worst offenses.

How many times did we turn the ball over on our half of the field? What was the average time of possesion for Offense? Yeah, our Defense was absolutely better than 8th if you take this into consideration.

I'm more inclined to say that improving our Offense is a greater priority with our first selection, either an OL or an big time weapon will also help our defense by keeping them off the field.

I really like Tuitt and I think he is a better fit and less of a gamble for the Giants over Donald. He fits the mold of a Giants DL, he is versatile and the Canty comparison is spot on IMO. He's the earliest consideration I'd say for taking a DT this early though.

I have some later rd. DT that I think can come in and provide what we need even as rotational players this year. Carauen Reid, Jay Bromley, Will Sutton; all players I think can be had 4th rd and later and can develop into capable starters. I'd love your analysis on these guys Sy'.

Overall, while I think our DL needs some help and depth, I think there are just too many other glaring needs on Offense. I think there will be better value for other Defensive positions at the top where I'd rather the giants go, like a Borland or Shazier in rd. 2 instead. I think Rd.4 is where I'd target anyone of those guys I listed above for a DT.

gidiefor  
Sy'56 : 4/10/2014 9:39 am : link
Again...very shortsighted. Starting or not....Donald would make a huge impact on this team in year one. The starting lineup is about as important as what round a QB is drafted in when looking back on their career and evaluating.

If you restrict yourself to just 2 or 3 positions for a first round pick, you limit yourself. You can't limit yourself when trying to build a team via the draft, it's foolish.
sjnyfan  
Sy'56 : 4/10/2014 9:43 am : link
Reid and Kerr both finished with a 69, actually. #16 and #17 overall DTs on my board. I wouldn't call them consolation if Donald isn't in blue, but I get what you are saying.

They both have a presence about them and I think they could have a Barry Cofield type impact as rookies. They are strong enough to handle the strength/size of the NFL, but also they do the little things right. I'd be disappointed if NYG waited untiul round 5 to make a DT pick though. They could, however, be a second DT brought in because NYG could use a couple.
Thanks  
sjnyfan : 4/10/2014 9:48 am : link
and I agree
Sy, I agree about both Donald and Anthony Johnson.  
yatqb : 4/10/2014 9:58 am : link
I think Donald will be a force from day one, and that Johnson's play just does not live up to the reputation his name generated over the last few years.
Thanks Sy  
BillT : 4/10/2014 10:05 am : link
Unless the Giants don't see Donald's obvious talent transferring because of his size (and I think that's not likely) he'll be the pick at 12 if he's still there. It would be a huge plus for the Giants to get this kind of talent where they are drafting. It seems perfectly set up for the Giants with a number of QB, OL and other star talent being obvious choices for the top 10 teams. Hope this works out for the Giants.
I think  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/10/2014 10:22 am : link
Johnathan Hankins is going to be a very good player for us.
The Giants have been looking for a bona fide 3-tech for years, now.  
Klaatu : 4/10/2014 10:38 am : link
Aaron Donald is clearly the best one in this draft. If he's still on the board when they're up at 12 and they pass on him, I hope that's not a decision they'll come to regret.
RE: I think  
GIANTSr01 : 4/10/2014 10:39 am : link
In comment 11614024 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Johnathan Hankins is going to be a very good player for us.


I agree with this. I think he'll be a better player than Joseph, if not this year then certainly by 2015.
RE: I think  
GmenDynasty : 4/10/2014 10:49 am : link
In comment 11614024 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Johnathan Hankins is going to be a very good player for us.


I think big Hank is going to be a pretty darn good player too!
RE: The Giants have been looking for a bona fide 3-tech for years, now.  
GmenDynasty : 4/10/2014 11:07 am : link
In comment 11614048 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Aaron Donald is clearly the best one in this draft. If he's still on the board when they're up at 12 and they pass on him, I hope that's not a decision they'll come to regret.


it's pretty clear under TC/Reese Giants crave pass rush from as many positions possible.

Sintim/Kiwi at hybrid LB/DE, O'Brien Schofield for that ridiculous 8 mill contract. The 3 techs we drafted in the top 3 rounds Austin,Alford.

This guy will bring a very rare and unique ability to create rush up the middle on a consistent basis. Getting this type of talent at 12 would be amazing.

DEs and OLBs have nothing to do with the obvious need for a 3-tech.  
Klaatu : 4/10/2014 11:29 am : link
If it's not Donald, then we'll have to see how things shake out. Might be another 2nd-rounder, might be later on.

As for Hankins, I like him much more than Sy does, but he's still only one guy. Jenkins and Patterson are clearly not in it for the long haul, and who knows what we'll get out of Kuhn?
Always been a fan of larger DTs  
Mike fr Warwick : 4/10/2014 11:43 am : link
But this guy is the exception. Bring him play him in a bunch of under fronts and turn him loose.
RE: DEs and OLBs have nothing to do with the obvious need for a 3-tech.  
GmenDynasty : 4/10/2014 11:50 am : link
In comment 11614150 Klaatu said:
Quote:
If it's not Donald, then we'll have to see how things shake out. Might be another 2nd-rounder, might be later on.

As for Hankins, I like him much more than Sy does, but he's still only one guy. Jenkins and Patterson are clearly not in it for the long haul, and who knows what we'll get out of Kuhn?


The point is Giants place a great premium on pass-rush ability. So whether it's a 3-tech or a 1-tech with above avg. pass rush ability, an LB or hybrid LB/DE , draft history shows they want a guy with potential for great pass rush ability (and will sometimes reach for them).
RE: I think  
sjnyfan : 4/10/2014 11:54 am : link
In comment 11614024 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Johnathan Hankins is going to be a very good player for us.


Totally agree. I think he'll have a better career than Joseph which is why I didn't mind letting him walk, especially for the money he got.
RE: NY Giants  
chris r : 4/10/2014 11:56 am : link
In comment 11613837 gidiefor said:
Quote:
Last Year
8th in Defense
30th in Offense

Now where should there priority be - especially considering that Donald does not fit the stated profile of Giant on the line


Gidie where is this profile stated?
No, Joe, the point is Defensive Tackles, hence the thread title.  
Klaatu : 4/10/2014 12:01 pm : link
The point is that the Giants have been looking for a one-gap penetrator for a long time, without success. The point is that now they might have a chance to get a very good one, if they so desire. Everything else is irrelevant.
I wouldn't object to Donald at 12  
Jim in Forest Hills : 4/10/2014 12:02 pm : link
but I don't think that's where the Giants are heading. I think they are confident in the 3 man rotation of Jenkins, Hankins and Patterson. Hankins is a high pick and Cullen and Mike are proven commodities.

BBI makes fun of Kuhn but they ir'd Rogers to keep him so I think the Giants may see more in him than the fans.

I think the DT strategy will be to add another body in FA and draft a someone late. A run stuffer in on day 3 is how I think it shakes out.
I'm pleased to see Sy's words on Aaron Donald.  
mrvax : 4/10/2014 12:07 pm : link
I don't know half of what other BBIers do about scouting but I was almost stunned by his play. I couldn't find any real weakness to his game. I'll do JPP flips if he is our pick.
RE: Dunedin  
damdevs : 4/10/2014 12:10 pm : link
In comment 11613827 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
Hageman is a gamble, definitely not a safe pick. He has elite tools and some tape where he looks unblockable. Very good get off at the point of attack and he can really move. My issue with him is the lack of consistency and it appears he doesn't care much about technique and the little things. He spent a lot of time on the sideline relative to most starting defensive linemen of his caliber, so thats a bit odd. But if he can put some things together, he can be a big time player.

In a draft as deep as it is this is exactly why I wouldn't touch this guy with a 10ft pole. I've watched him for the last 2 years and the guy just disappears. It's almost like he just going through the motions and doesn't care.

I also know a few guys on the team and other athletes that know him and they say the dude is just bat shit crazy. He's just not all there mentally.
Its crazy  
area junc : 4/10/2014 12:12 pm : link
How many people didnt notice how good hankins was last year. He has pro bowl ability

As for donald, he is very risky for us because he doesnt fit our scheme as an everydown player. Of course neither did marv austin and we took him anyway
Sy'56...  
damdevs : 4/10/2014 12:19 pm : link
completely agree with your take on Donald. I've been beating this guy's drum since the draft talk started up.

I remember draft experts having Donald rated 4 or 5 best DT back in January and I was like what the hell are they watching? This guy is the real deal for sure.
Sy..did you get a chance to look at Justin Ellis-La Tech  
Rick in Dallas : 4/10/2014 12:28 pm : link
he had a good week and game in the East West Shrine Classic.Interesting 3rd day prospect that needs to be coached up...
No reason not to pay Joseph  
TMS : 4/10/2014 12:32 pm : link
We had the money obviously. Now we will probably pay the price.
RE: Its crazy  
damdevs : 4/10/2014 12:33 pm : link
In comment 11614244 area junc said:
Quote:
As for donald, he is very risky for us because he doesnt fit our scheme as an everydown player. Of course neither did marv austin and we took him anyway

Arc, I completely disagree with you. As of right now the NFL is a passing league, name one team that wouldn't want a pass rushing DT that can seriously get to the QB?

Hell this guy would be good as a 3-4 DE. He's taken a lot of snaps at DE in college too and played well.

As far as the Gmen go we use the Nascar package a lot. You don't think this guy would be a big upgrade for us as far a pass rushing goes?

Man I toltally disagree with you...he would be a great fit and great addition to the DL for us.
Great write-up  
SB : 4/10/2014 12:55 pm : link
IMO if Donald is there are 12 and we pass on him for Ebron, that would be just like the Jets passing on Warren Sapp for Kyle Brady. Oooff that pick haunted the Jets for a decade.
Surprised no mention of Will Sutton  
jlukes : 4/10/2014 12:58 pm : link
A great option in round 2 or 3
RE: Its crazy  
BMac : 4/10/2014 1:02 pm : link
In comment 11614244 area junc said:
Quote:
How many people didnt notice how good hankins was last year. He has pro bowl ability

As for donald, he is very risky for us because he doesnt fit our scheme as an everydown player. Of course neither did marv austin and we took him anyway


Why doesn't he fit our scheme as an every-down player? Has has quickness/speed to burn, is preternaturally strong, and has proved his ability against top-flight collegiate competition which, coincidentally, comprises some of the very same guys he'll go up against in the NFL.
I disagree about Anthony Johnson  
Anakim : 4/10/2014 1:05 pm : link
Yes, he underachieved, but he has shown some absolutely brilliant flashes. I've seen him more than once completely split a double-team and get the guy in the backfield. Other times, he was invisible like you said. Do I want more consistency? 100%, but the tools and talent are there and it is rare. He's a boom-or-bust guy that I'd consider taking in the fourth round. And again, I'd rather have him than Ego.

The only exposure I got to Caraun Reid was during the Senior Bowl, but he really impressed me. He was really quick off the snap and his swim move seemed to work almost every time. He had two sacks on two consecutive plays in the Senior Bowl.

And for that matter, same goes for Deandre Coleman. Another guy I didn't get to see (Cal was awful and they're not shown a lot here in NYC unless they're playing like USC), but he impressed me at the Senior Bowl. Very stout against the run and has some decent push. I honestly wasn't keying in on him though so I couldn't tell you a whole lot of what I saw; just from the little I did see I was very impressed. I also remember that analysts were touting Coleman for consistently beating Gabe Ikard and Travis Swanson...top 5 OC according to Mike Mayock.


Daniel McCullers...I mean he's a mountain of a man. I didn't watch Tennessee a lot this year because they don't really have many prospects (though some say Raijon Neal could be a steal) that intrigued me to start the season. I know some analysts love Tiny Richardson and JuWuan James, but I don't know, I couldn't focus in on the O-Line the whole time so I just didn't really bother. Anyway, I think he ended up with 1.5 sacks so he's not good against the pass, but for someone his size...I mean every play, I'm guessing you'd need 2 or 3 guys on him. That could free up guys like Jenkins, JPP, Moore, etc. to get in the backfield.

Another guy who I've heard analysts like is Eathyn Manumaleuna.
I think the value of an inside rusher is even greater these days  
chris r : 4/10/2014 1:05 pm : link
With the increase in quick drops we see.

With Donald, and if JPP is JPP again, we could have an elite DLine again.

And an elite DLine (especially Tuck being a beast inside) plus Eli were the main reasons we one two SBs recently.
RE: Surprised no mention of Will Sutton  
Anakim : 4/10/2014 1:08 pm : link
In comment 11614338 jlukes said:
Quote:
A great option in round 2 or 3


Good point. Everyone raves about Donald, but Sutton actually outplayed Donald his junior year. He had 13 sacks and 23.5 for loss. I know Pete Prisco likes him.
to BMac  
area junc : 4/10/2014 1:11 pm : link
because we are a hold the point defense (building wall at LOS). penetration pisses ur teammates off on run downs as it creates gaps for the runner to exploit and makes everybody look bad

there are plenty of penetrating schemes around the league he would fit much better in

as a pass rusher, i love him but i want an everydown stud at 12. jmo, give me a guy who kicks ass and does not come off the field ever
in other words  
area junc : 4/10/2014 1:12 pm : link
if u are gonna ask donald to hold the poa he no longer has appeal @12

2nd round? yes please
To expound on Sutton:  
Anakim : 4/10/2014 1:13 pm : link
Thomas Melton ‏@TMeltonScouting Apr 2
2012 Will Sutton will always have a special place in my heart. Whoever told him to bulk up should be publicly shamed.


Daniel Jeremiah ‏@MoveTheSticks Mar 26
I'm intrigued by ASU DT Will Sutton…gained too much weight this yr but he's still one of the better interior pass rushers in the draft.



Sutton apparently weighed in at his Pro Day at 295 and I believe he played around 315-320 all year so that's something to note. At 295, he may have regained the quickness he had during his Junior year.
good call on  
area junc : 4/10/2014 1:14 pm : link
sutton guys. would love him in round 3
Not high on Sutton  
Sy'56 : 4/10/2014 1:37 pm : link
unless we are talking about round 4/5. He can offer the pass rush but he is not an assignment based DT. He gets beat up against double teams and he looks overwhelmed against the quality blockers.

He did give Yankey a handful though, there is some talent there. I would simply prefer other guys,
RE: Its crazy  
GmenDynasty : 4/10/2014 1:43 pm : link
In comment 11614244 area junc said:
Quote:
How many people didnt notice how good hankins was last year. He has pro bowl ability

As for donald, he is very risky for us because he doesnt fit our scheme as an everydown player. Of course neither did marv austin and we took him anyway


When you have a chance for a talent like that you adjust the scheme to take advantage of his strengths. It can be done.
jlukes  
beatrixkiddo : 4/10/2014 2:08 pm : link
I had mentioned earlier in this thread Sutton as a target for a possible 3/4th rd selection. I think he has a lot of potential, very similar to Donald. Both guys are shorter, but have a lot of power and consistantly push the pocket. He's not as explosive, and his senior year with weight issues and a not so spectacular combine is the reason he will drop. I think he can be had in the 4th. and I wouldn't hesitate to take him if there in that round.

I think he's a capable starter with some NFL conditioning in this league. I think cbs has him compared to Geno Atkins, which I think is definetly the type of player Sutton can be.
RE: to BMac  
BMac : 4/10/2014 2:16 pm : link
In comment 11614362 area junc said:
Quote:
because we are a hold the point defense (building wall at LOS). penetration pisses ur teammates off on run downs as it creates gaps for the runner to exploit and makes everybody look bad

there are plenty of penetrating schemes around the league he would fit much better in

as a pass rusher, i love him but i want an everydown stud at 12. jmo, give me a guy who kicks ass and does not come off the field ever


He has more than adequately demonstrated that he can, indeed, "hold the line" but I think you're quite mistaken that this is what the Giants actually want from their D-Line interior. Yes, the 1-tech serves to be a bottleneck, but a really good 3-tech, which the Giants haven't had since Hammer, is an exact fit for their pass-rushing philosophy. He's one of the more perfect picks for the Giants tat has come along in recent years. I hope he's still there at 12; then it's in Jerry's lap.
Here is why donald makes sense  
Lionhart28 : 4/10/2014 2:22 pm : link
Let's not even look at it from a bpa/value perspective...

The Giants have a major need at DT and a major need at DE/pass-rusher. This guy would add legs to the DT rotation and would be an impact situational pass-rusher from day 1. He is definitely the guy I want at #12.

RE: No, Joe, the point is Defensive Tackles, hence the thread title.  
GmenDynasty : 4/10/2014 2:29 pm : link
In comment 11614225 Klaatu said:
Quote:
The point is that the Giants have been looking for a one-gap penetrator for a long time, without success. The point is that now they might have a chance to get a very good one, if they so desire. Everything else is irrelevant.


Explaining this organziation's premium they put on pass rush ability plays a major role in why we could potnetially want Donald.
My question to those looking for pass rusher  
beatrixkiddo : 4/10/2014 2:31 pm : link
Is would you take Barr or Donald assuming both are there at 12?

That's a tough one for me, While Barr may have a higher ceiling he is very raw and will absolutely be a project with many question marks. Donald, you know what he is capable of, but will it translate against bigger, and better OL in the NFL.
Great  
AcidTest : 4/10/2014 2:34 pm : link
write up as usual.

Donald, Jones, Urban, and Bromley are my favorites. I hope we get at least one. There is also Ellis from Louisiana Tech. Kerr is also worth late round consideration from what I hear.
No doubt Sy nailed this aspect of need at DT:  
BlueLou : 4/10/2014 2:39 pm : link
Quote:
This group as a whole needs a fresh body or two that can contribute right away.


So if Donald is there at 12, I have a hard time imagining the Giants passing him up, assuming Sy's grade and assessment are correct.

Last time (prior to Hankins) the Giants drafted a big jamook space eater type DT Linval Joseph, the next year they took the supposed complementary piece 3 Tech DT in round 2 - Marvin Austin. Austin turned out to be bag of wind, so finally they gave up on him last year and scrounged through the FA heap to sign Jenkins and Patterson, who've been OK stopgaps, but they are not answers.

They will likely grab a DT high this year again, and Donald stands out, and he'd be the complementary 3 to Hankins 1.
Can Brent Urban grow into another Chris  
PeterS : 4/10/2014 3:29 pm : link
Canty? Both 6-7/295 at draft time. Both UVa grads.
RE: My question to those looking for pass rusher  
muhajir : 4/10/2014 3:47 pm : link
In comment 11614546 beatrixkiddo said:
Quote:
Is would you take Barr or Donald assuming both are there at 12?

That's a tough one for me, While Barr may have a higher ceiling he is very raw and will absolutely be a project with many question marks. Donald, you know what he is capable of, but will it translate against bigger, and better OL in the NFL.


I'd go Donald. Pass rush up the middle is much more disruptive then pass rush off the edge.
RE: gidiefor  
gidiefor : Mod : 4/10/2014 4:36 pm : link
In comment 11613947 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
Again...very shortsighted. Starting or not....Donald would make a huge impact on this team in year one. The starting lineup is about as important as what round a QB is drafted in when looking back on their career and evaluating.

If you restrict yourself to just 2 or 3 positions for a first round pick, you limit yourself. You can't limit yourself when trying to build a team via the draft, it's foolish.


Short-sighted????

I think the view of Donald supporters is MyOpIcally rose colored -

In my view the Giants can't afford to indulge in this type of thinking - They must do something about the Offensive Line and Offensive Skill players - and this year's draft has the depth in those areas to make it so

I'm like Jon Snow  
D HOS : 4/10/2014 4:50 pm : link
I know (practically) nothing. But I feel skeptical that an undersized DT who is getting it done in a big way against College guards can do that against Pro interior linemen. I'll grant you the talent but Pro o-line are talented too (at least ones that don't play on the Giants). Much more than college linemen. However no arguing that we need DT's bad and you can only pick who's there. If he's the best... Is there not more sizable DT's who are good enough that we could take a chance on?
I don't think Tuitt is anything but a 3-4 DE.  
Shockeyisthebest80 : 4/10/2014 5:11 pm : link
When he was moved inside in 2013 after Nix's injury, he looked awful (Air Force game in particular). He just doesn't play low enough to be successful there. He's also too big (even at optimal weight) for a 4-3 DE, although some 4-3 defenses like Seattle and JAX play personnel similar to a 3-4. I think he's got a ton of talent, but I think both Tuitt and Nix are really one position players for a certain type of defense.
gidiefor  
Sy'56 : 4/10/2014 6:29 pm : link
so if NYG goes with Donald in round 1, that means they won't be able to improve the OL?
D HOS  
Sy'56 : 4/10/2014 6:31 pm : link
Geno Atkins
Sy your assessment of the current DT group is overly negative  
Torrag : 4/10/2014 7:01 pm : link
Hankins is a 2nd rounder going into his second season. He flashed at times last season. The experience he gained will be invaluable to him in progressing to the next level. You act as if second year high draft picks don't accelerate their progress. IMO he could become a force to be reckoned with that opponents will have to account for down in and down out.

Jenkins needs an heir apparent but played quite well both in the ground attack and as an effective pass rusher and backfield disruptor. He showed no reason why we shouldn't expect a similar campaign this year.

I agree the position needs better quality depth but the cupboard isn't nearly as bare as your analysis indicates.
Sy  
gidiefor : Mod : 4/10/2014 7:37 pm : link
if the Giants go with Donald instead of using a premium pick in an extreme area of need that they've neglected - that would be foolish - especially considering that Donald doesn't fit the general parameters and body type of a "Giant"
Maybe I'm missing something  
Bill in UT : 4/10/2014 7:44 pm : link
but has there ever been any college player who has been judged on anything other than how he played against other college players? Some of you talk like some of these guys proved themselves in a season against NFL players before being drafted.
If Donald is there at 12  
Jay on the Island : 4/10/2014 8:35 pm : link
I think he might be the BPA on the Giants board. This is not a great year for DE's and there is no one that is available at 12 that will be worth the pick. If the Giants want to improve the pass rush then Donald may be the answer.
RE: Sy  
GmenDynasty : 4/10/2014 9:04 pm : link
In comment 11615023 gidiefor said:
Quote:
if the Giants go with Donald instead of using a premium pick in an extreme area of need that they've neglected - that would be foolish - especially considering that Donald doesn't fit the general parameters and body type of a "Giant"


Gids where have they neglected. The signed one of the top OGs on the FA market. A center who they probably evaluated as healthy and was very good when healthy. And a couple depth/potential starters in Brown/Jerry.

Is it a need area . Yes. But not nearly as desperate as before. Lastly we can for the millionth time get a damn good OL at 43.

You take the BPA who is on another tier than everyone else in Donald then get a plug and play OL @43. Then nab a WR and TE in rounds 3-4.
While I think Donald would be an excellent pick at 12  
Jay on the Island : 4/10/2014 9:20 pm : link
If the Giants do not add more talent to the OL then it won't matter if Donald has 16 sacks because fixing the seasons hinges on Eli playing significantly better than he did last year. In order for that to happen he needs much better play from the OL and another weapon at WR and TE. Schwartz was a great addition but Walton is a big ? and Jerry and Brown are excellent depth but not someone we want to see start multiple games.
RE: While I think Donald would be an excellent pick at 12  
GmenDynasty : 4/10/2014 9:51 pm : link
In comment 11615194 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
If the Giants do not add more talent to the OL then it won't matter if Donald has 16 sacks because fixing the seasons hinges on Eli playing significantly better than he did last year. In order for that to happen he needs much better play from the OL and another weapon at WR and TE. Schwartz was a great addition but Walton is a big ? and Jerry and Brown are excellent depth but not someone we want to see start multiple games.


If they go Donald round 1 they MUST go OL in round 2 or latest 3. They should be able to pluck a very good and possible day 1 starter at 43 and perhaps even in round 3.
Well perhaps not...  
BlueLou : 4/10/2014 10:01 pm : link
Quote:
...Jerry and Brown are excellent depth but not someone we want to see start multiple games.


But they are at least almost certainly better than DD or Brewer were last year. Schwartz is an upgrade over Boothe. Walton hopefully an upgrade over Cordle.

Maybe even Brown is an upgrade over a very troubled Beatty last year, or a motivational tool to push Beatty at least.

I don't get the optimism about our DTs unless one assumes Kuhn is ready to bust out.
The Giants could do worse than Donald..  
Blue Blood : 4/10/2014 10:34 pm : link
MUCH worse..
The Rookie Scouting Portfolio  
Torn Tendon : 4/10/2014 11:02 pm : link
"I’m not a betting man, but if I were, Aaron Donald would be one of two players in this deep draft class that I’d have no reservations betting on as a future star.

Aaron Donald is as promising as Geno Atkins (of the Bengals)."
Futures: Pittsburgh DT Aaron Donald - ( New Window )
Using the rankings in the OP  
Modus Operandi : 4/10/2014 11:03 pm : link
It appears Urban projects to the 2nd or 3rd round. I just don't see it. Guy seems like a total stiff to me. We already have one of those guys and we got him in the 7th.
Waldman continues:  
Torn Tendon : 4/10/2014 11:30 pm : link
"I also love Donald’s creativity. When I wrote about Kyle Van Noy two weeks ago, Ryan Riddle explained to me that offenses want to force defenders to make predictable decisions. Its players like Van Noy who offenses fear most, because they possess a creative-disruptive approach that forces the offense to think rather than react. That can destroy the rhythm of a play."
I'm hoping Dallas trades  
bob in tx : 4/10/2014 11:33 pm : link
up to take Donald.
Sy...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/11/2014 12:10 am : link
hoping you see this so you can address a question. Donald has on more than one occasion been referred to as a "once in a decade" talent on this website. I see what you have written, but wonder if you would give us a relative ranking - do you see that kind of praise as hyperbole? How does he stack up over the previous several years of DT's in your opinion?

Thanks!
Jernigan sixth?  
BigBlueBuff : 4/11/2014 12:45 am : link
Haha! What tape are you watching?
RE: Jernigan sixth?  
Anakim : 4/11/2014 1:18 am : link
In comment 11615411 BigBlueBuff said:
Quote:
Haha! What tape are you watching?


The National Championship game when he kept checking out of the game...



Joking. To be fair, he was sick.
RE: No reason not to pay Joseph  
Optimus-NY : 4/11/2014 2:59 am : link
In comment 11614282 TMS said:
Quote:
We had the money obviously. Now we will probably pay the price.


You misunderstand the point of not paying him. IT was not wise to pay him for a number of reasons:

Quote:
A - The 1-technique DT position is not the premier position of the 2 DT positions in a 403 front from a cap perspective; Linval was going to command a pretty penny, which he did. Lin-Jo's cap number with the Vikings is $6.6M for 2014, as indicated at the bottom of this post. Lin-Jo's cash # for 2014 is a whopping $9M.

B - The replacement for Lin-Jo is on the roster already for the 1-technique spot in the person of Johnatahn Hankins, last year's 2nd round pick. Hankins's 2014 cap # is $916,068 (his cash # is $588,213).


If you compare the difference between Lin-Jo's and Hankins's cap and cash numbers, it becomes easy to understand why the Giants didn't pony up and pay Lin-Jo, and that's without taking into consideration other positions and the future expenditures that are slated to take place (i.e., paying JPP, paying Prince, extending Eli next year, setting aside money for another big money acquisition at another position that is traditionally more costly in cap dollars than the 1-technique position is, etc).

The cap space saved from not pursuing Linval was $5,683,932. This amount of cap space allowed the Giants to go out and get some key players. Take Jon Beason (2014 cap # of $3,141,666) and Geoff Schwartz (2014 cap # of $2,325,000) for instance. Combine the 2014 cap numbers for Beason and Schwartz and you get a total of $5,466,666.

This is roughly what the Giants gained by letting Lin-Jo walk, not even counting the replacement already on the roster in Hankins. The Giants just need to find a back-up 1-technique DY to take the place of Hankins as the backup last year in their rotation in 2014 and going forward. That's how roster management works. Would you trade Lin-Jo for those three? (Hankins was not going to stick around after his rookie contract to back-up Lin-Jo, especially since he's not really a 3-technique at this level). It's chess, not checkers.


Linval Joseph's salary cap page from overthecap.com - 2014 Vikings' team page - ( New Window )
Optimus, under  
bob in tx : 4/11/2014 6:44 am : link
your reasoning, Hankins & his agent better start looking for a new team as he'll never be offered a 2nd contract.
Dan in the Springs  
Sy'56 : 4/11/2014 6:52 am : link
I wouldn't put Donald in to the "special tier". For my grading system, guys that finish with a 90+ grade are considered to be elite, I only have a few of them every year. Clowney is the only guy up there this year.

Here are the names that Donald compares to over the past few years (within 1 point better or worse)

2013 - Sheldon Richardson, Sharif Floyd

2012 - Dontari Poe

2011 - Phil Taylor, Marcell Dareus

2010 - NONE



Here are the names that Donald finished BEHIND by more than a point

2013 - Star Lotulelei

2012 - Michael Brockers

2011 - NONE

2010 - Gerald McCoy, Ndamukong Suh

Sy'56, thanks for posting this...  
EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) : 4/11/2014 7:54 am : link
" It’s a very thin group that will hold this team back as it currently stands."

I agree. In fact, the same should be said for the offensive line. When you consider the fact that we essentially have been dominated on the line of scrimmage lately, we can expect no change in that area IF we went into the season with today's roster. This is why I am not as optimistic as others after the flurry of free agent signings. Yes, we see improvement in other areas (away from the line of scrimmage) but not in the areas where you can control the game.

So, we will have to see not only what happens in the draft but what Reese is able to do in the free agent market through July.
in 2007 we won the SB because Brady had no time to throw  
SGMen : 4/11/2014 8:13 am : link
Our DL was dominant and in today's league you must rush the QB or you lose.

That is why I like Donald in Round 1. He is super strong and will be an excellent NFL player. Austin was lazy from what I hear and that is why he failed. Donald doesn't have that rep.
I don't think that's a logical conclusion  
beatrixkiddo : 4/11/2014 9:17 am : link
to optimuses point bob.

In a couple more years when Hankins contract is up, maybe the team will have the room to resign him. Given the way last season panned out, and the team clearly trying to factor in keeping guys like JPP, they drafted to replace positions that were more expendable. I'm sure they would have loved to keep Joseph, just not at the expense of not retaining their best player on the DL, and tying their hands with other FA acquisitions. It was more or less just timing and luck of the draw.
RE: Sy'56, thanks for posting this...  
Simms11 : 4/11/2014 9:20 am : link
In comment 11615466 EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) said:
Quote:
" It’s a very thin group that will hold this team back as it currently stands."

I agree. In fact, the same should be said for the offensive line. When you consider the fact that we essentially have been dominated on the line of scrimmage lately, we can expect no change in that area IF we went into the season with today's roster. This is why I am not as optimistic as others after the flurry of free agent signings. Yes, we see improvement in other areas (away from the line of scrimmage) but not in the areas where you can control the game.

So, we will have to see not only what happens in the draft but what Reese is able to do in the free agent market through July.


All of the Free Agents brought in have some skill and have NFL experience. Different systems and a change of scenary can sometimes create successful results. For some, the light-bulb comes on and they improve. There's also the impact of other players around you... so you never really know how they'll perform until they start to play some pre-season games together. I, for one, remain optimistic. I think an addition of a back-up center and tackle, from the draft, will make folks a little more comfortable and I will be as well. Right now it's not necessarily skill that I'm concerned about, along the oline, but health of the LT, RG and Center. If those three come into camp relatively healthy, I think they will come together quite well.

On the DLine, I think the same can be said, but we do need that difference maker to go along with a rejuvenated JPP and an improved Moore. I think Donald will provide that energy and enthusiasm that is needed along the DLine. He's strong and quick. I don't think he'll be that much of a risk. He's a guy that will continue to work hard and improve too. Draft Donald in round 1, then focus on offense for the next few rounds (WR, TE, OL, etc).
Thanks Sy...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/11/2014 9:30 am : link
It is good to see that kind of comparison too - his number sticks out compared to this year's crop.
Optimus  
Aceman : 4/11/2014 10:31 am : link
I respect your expertise regarding the NFL cap, but I found your analysis in this thread to be misleading and short sighted. The savings from not signing Linval Joseph allowed Reese to purchase Beason and Schwartz for 2014, but you conveniently omitted the fact that it will pay for only one of them in 2015 and beyond. In addition, Letting Joseph go has nothing to do with keeping Hankins on the roster.

If you had continued your analysis to 2015, it would show that the cap number for Joseph is $4.6 million while the combined cap for Beason and Schwartz is a whopping $12.3 million. The cap for Beason alone is $7.4 million. So, in 2015, who would you rather have -- Linval Joseph plus an extra $2.8 million to spend, or Jon Beason and no money?

I would not call what Reese did solid cap management. It's just another example of kicking the can down the road and mortgaging the future.
I would not  
PaulN : 4/11/2014 11:37 am : link
Care if Donald was not an every down player, if he was just a rotational player, But, he penetrated the opposing offenses backfield, that would be good enough. The thing is this, can he perform anything like he did in college oon this level, any person who speaks to this like he knows, is a nut job, because we simply do not know, if he could, he would be the first pick in the draft, if we all knew he could translate that kind of performance. But we don't know, none of us know. Is he worth the gamble at 12, that is the tricky question here. You simply can not blow a 12th pick, people here do not seem to understand that fully, they are more interested in being right so they can toot thier horns, I am not interested in that bullshit, I grew up a long time ago. I am interested in the Giants team, I would like to see the team compete once again on the big stage.
RE: Optimus, under  
Optimus-NY : 4/11/2014 11:38 am : link
In comment 11615444 bob in tx said:
Quote:
your reasoning, Hankins & his agent better start looking for a new team as he'll never be offered a 2nd contract.


It wouldn't be surprising considering that Hankins's last 2 predecessors did just that. Cofield's and Linval's agents did right by their respective clients. The Giants don't traditionally pay a lot to their 1-technique DT.
Paul....  
Wonderphil11 : 4/11/2014 11:41 am : link
As other's have said, that's the question every team has to answer about EVERY prospect, not just Donald.
RE: Optimus  
Optimus-NY : 4/11/2014 12:07 pm : link
In comment 11615714 Aceman said:
Quote:
I respect your expertise regarding the NFL cap, but I found your analysis in this thread to be misleading and short sighted. The savings from not signing Linval Joseph allowed Reese to purchase Beason and Schwartz for 2014, but you conveniently omitted the fact that it will pay for only one of them in 2015 and beyond. In addition, Letting Joseph go has nothing to do with keeping Hankins on the roster.

If you had continued your analysis to 2015, it would show that the cap number for Joseph is $4.6 million while the combined cap for Beason and Schwartz is a whopping $12.3 million. The cap for Beason alone is $7.4 million. So, in 2015, who would you rather have -- Linval Joseph plus an extra $2.8 million to spend, or Jon Beason and no money?

I would not call what Reese did solid cap management. It's just another example of kicking the can down the road and mortgaging the future.


We'll just agree to disagree. I still think that not re-signing Linval was the correct course of action. You have a limited allocation of money for a position that the Giants just don't invest a lot of cap space into. You have to save where you can, whenever you can. It goes beyond Beason and Schwartz. The flexibility needed to manage the roster decreases with Linval on the team at this point in his career. It's a common-sense approach to cap management.

The decision to not re-sign Linval was coming from a mile away. Besides, the space from the two players I mentioned would still be available if they were to be cut---space that would be allocated to Linval. In the NFL today you don't look past 2 or 3 years when it comes to cap management. I bet you money that Beason and Schwartz won't be on this team come 2017.
RE: I would not  
GmenDynasty : 4/11/2014 8:25 pm : link
In comment 11615854 PaulN said:
Quote:
Care if Donald was not an every down player, if he was just a rotational player, But, he penetrated the opposing offenses backfield, that would be good enough. The thing is this, can he perform anything like he did in college oon this level, any person who speaks to this like he knows, is a nut job, because we simply do not know, if he could, he would be the first pick in the draft, if we all knew he could translate that kind of performance. But we don't know, none of us know. Is he worth the gamble at 12, that is the tricky question here. You simply can not blow a 12th pick, people here do not seem to understand that fully, they are more interested in being right so they can toot thier horns, I am not interested in that bullshit, I grew up a long time ago. I am interested in the Giants team, I would like to see the team compete once again on the big stage.


Nothing is guaranteed in life dude. What's your point?

You play the percentages. Donald has dominated EVERYTHING from on film to Senior Bowl practices to Senior Bowl Game to the combine. Has has great character and work ethic. He has been relatively injury free. That sounds like a damn good percentage play to me at 12 should he make it.
Donald vs Atkins  
D HOS : 4/12/2014 1:06 am : link
Donald seen as an Atkins do-over.
Donald vs Atkins - ( New Window )
I understand the fixation on Donald  
santacruzom : 4/15/2014 6:04 pm : link
But I'm just at the point where I'd be stunned if a team ahead of us doesn't take him.
Back to the Corner