Martin is better than Lewan

Eat his contract for this yr and let him go next. Schwartz is a starter. Pugh is versatile but can he play Center? What of Herman? Pugh was good and will only be better at RT.

In comment 11614216 GGGmen said:

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Lewan has a nasty demeanor. Lewan is a better run blocker. Lewan is a LT.

I agree with the first two, but he's not a left tackle. While he's very athletic, he has slow feet and won't be able to stay in front of athletic defensive ends.

I would love it if they did take Donald in the first but I'm starting to think he'll definitely go before 12, unfortunately. I could also see the Giants being very intriqued by Barr's pass rushing skill set. I think if Donald and/or Barr is there, they take one of them as their pass rushing ability will be hard to find in the later rounds whereas the other positions are much more plentiful.

Lewan is an OT in the NFL, probably an LT.

Martin is most likely best suited to OG in the NFL, and his game his nasty personified. I've been saying he's the better fit for NYG, better prospect is apples and oranges.

One thing I know is that our OL should be better regardless. Lewan has been compared to Jake Long. He seems to me to be athletic enough to be a LT. To me it's Donald or Lewan. You trade back for Martin...to 19 or so.

To me as well if Fewell can properly utilize him. The last thing we need is Kiwi redux.

Or better yet in rd 3. There are also a number of TEs we could use..Fedorowitz, Lynch, Nikolas, A Jenkins. This could be a yr where trading back makes sense although it is not jerry Reese's style.

If two or three go early we should have a tougher decision to make.

linked above. Ross Tucker, former NFL OL, discusses OL with Greg Cosell. Very interesting to hear their perspective.

How far in do they start talking Martin? I listened for a few minutes and it was jibberish.

love listening to him but Tucker is tough to take sometimes as he tends to go on and on.

NEITHER ONE IS A FRANCHISE TACKLE!!!!! NO OLINEMAN SHOULD GET DRAFTED IN ROUND ONE UNLESS HE IS A FRANCHISE TACKLE...PERIOD!

In comment 11614336 sameolgee-MEN said:

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NEITHER ONE IS A FRANCHISE TACKLE!!!!! NO OLINEMAN SHOULD GET DRAFTED IN ROUND ONE UNLESS HE IS A FRANCHISE TACKLE...PERIOD!

Shout moar please!

I would have taken him before any Olineman in this draft.

were Manziel, Clowney & Bortles, I would trade up for Greg Robinson who will lock down LT for a decade

In comment 11614327 GGGmen said:

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How far in do they start talking Martin? I listened for a few minutes and it was jibberish.

They start discussing Martin and Lewan at the 18:13 mark.

Tucker has no credibility. He openly says he's watched ONE game on each. He doesn't like his lateral mobility...in one game? I think he is more ready than Robinson. Only Mathews is more ready.

Although owned by Strahan often. I see Lewan as a very similar character.

has a higher ceiling. Martin has a higher floor, and is a better prospect than Pugh. I'd be OK with Martin at #12.

In comment 11614312 GGGmen said:

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One thing I know is that our OL should be better regardless. Lewan has been compared to Jake Long. He seems to me to be athletic enough to be a LT. To me it's Donald or Lewan. You trade back for Martin...to 19 or so.

Martin is a top 15 pick. There is no way he's there at 19 so trading back makes no sense and is something Reese rarely does. Picking Martin at 12 is not a reach at all. Especially when you take into account he's the type of OL we value. Versatile, tough, intelligent, and good character.

Right?

to offer a sound opinion of my own, but from everything I've read and seen so far, I'll be fine with selecting Martin in the first (provided we don't pass up some exceptional talent to do so).

If we select Lewan, I'll be nervous. Just based on the red flags that have popped up about him and his play, and based on evaluators that I trust.

I agree that Martin may very well turn out to be a better G than Lewan is a tackle.

But OT is a much greater value position. It is ridiculous to even compare Lewan and Martin--unless you think Martin can play OT.

He's been starting at left tackle for Notre Dame for 4 seasons and has been team captain for two.

"He has decent feet, but he lacks the lateral agility to be a pure left tackle at the next level."

IMO Lewan is the better prospect now in a close race to be the 3rd OT off the board. Where he pulls away is his athletic upside. Martin doesn't come close to Lewan's physical ability and doesn't project well to the coveted LT spot.

It's really apples and oranges for while they ostensibly play the same position in reality they don't. If you want an elite blindside protector Lewan is your guy. If you want a versatile player that can hold the fort at RT and potential be an All Pro OG then you'll prefer Martin.

I'll leave the character issues and off field sleuthing to the Giants. Based on how I project their career paths to develop I'd draft Lewan.

Just wondering because there was little Iupati tape to see on the net, publically, and you are so sure of yourself...

If not obviously so.

I think Martin unquestionably played better than Lewan in 2013, but drafting is also about projecting. Lewan is a better athlete with a more projectable physique. I prefer Martin for the Giants, but I can totally understand why others think Lewan is the better prospect.

if not later. Just depends on who's available @ 12. It might be worth it to trade back up into the 1st round this year.

Go to youtube and search for 'Taylor Lewan vs' and pick a team or two. Then do the same with Martin. For all his athleticism, Lewan doesn't move his feet as quickly as Martin and for that reason, he doesn't mirror his man keeping himself between his man and the qb. That's the name of the game for a left tackle and Martin does it better. The interview with Greg Cosell that's linked earlier in this thread explains that clearly.

Many here think he is the next Munoz. He did not have a good year and if not for the Michigan jersey he would be further down. Up until the combine he was not considered a lock to even be a LT. Then he puts on shorts and suddenly he moves the meter.

If him or Martin, I take Martin. What film is out there that shows he does anything better than Martin - he is nasty - BFD

.

Re: Iupati I don't have access to any full game tape. But for the last geez 7 years or so there has been a proliferation of cut ups showing up on YouTube for at least first round prospects. It's not a full picture but some videos if done well give every snap for a given player during the course of a game. With Iupati I'd never seen a guy with that kind of strength and flexibility with his measurables. BBI was pretty enamored with him that year too. He just never made it to us.

Giants pick at 12, I'd say Lewan. That prediction takes into account both my guess on who's likely to be available and who the Giants like.

should show me some tape where he doesn't look inconsistent, uses good technique throughout, isn't sloppy with his feet, doesn't constantly reach, doesn't grab face masks constantly and can hit a moving target. Cuz I can't find any. He's an MiS type prospect. Works out way better than he plays, and is gonna get his ass kicked by a teammate -- probably a smaller one -- in his first training camp.

Martin can play all 5 spots, just like Pugh and doesn't will be in a mini camp while Lewan's being arraigned.

Joey, I am shocked you don't see this.

Martin, not Lewan.

Cant miss O lineman in this draft outside of Matthews. The thing is, he improves your line in two spots and makes future FA pick ups easier for the Giants.

Lets say Beatty comes back and plays well. No prob, Zach Martin can kick inside and play G.

Beatty stinks and we cut him next year? No problem, he has the ability and tape to be at peast a capable LT. Plus next free agent period, we can seek a G instead of a LT. In terms of value alone, there is NOBODY in this draft that brings as much value to any team as Martin would bring to the Giants.

both can play multiple positions. Its not glamorous, but if the objective is to maximize what's left of Eli's prime, there might not be a better pick.

we'll start winning SB's again, because those are the kind of OL's we've always won with.

...will be long gone at 19...I am concerned he won't be there at 12. He is a Giant in every respect. Hands down,it's Martin over Lewan. IMO,BarbieCarpenter is absolutely correct in the evaluation of the two prospects.

chasing after the shorts and t-shirt athletes instead of getting the football players. Agree with OP, Martin is a better player and if the Giants have the option they cant afford another project. They need a guy who can play well now.

In comment 11615390 chopperhatch said:

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Cant miss O lineman in this draft outside of Matthews. The thing is, he improves your line in two spots and makes future FA pick ups easier for the Giants. Lets say Beatty comes back and plays well. No prob, Zach Martin can kick inside and play G. Beatty stinks and we cut him next year? No problem, he has the ability and tape to be at peast a capable LT. Plus next free agent period, we can seek a G instead of a LT. In terms of value alone, there is NOBODY in this draft that brings as much value to any team as Martin would bring to the Giants.

BINGO.

In comment 11615424 Phil in LA said:

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we'll start winning SB's again, because those are the kind of OL's we've always won with.

Phil - Thanks for opening my eyes to Martin over Lewan. You're on the money.

In comment 11615424 Phil in LA said:

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we'll start winning SB's again, because those are the kind of OL's we've always won with.

Yeah but we've gotten those guys later in the draft usually, allowing us to get playmakers at other positions with higher picks.

Always going to go with ND over Michigan...

But in all seriousness, I prefer Martin over Lewan too.

I would be happy with the logic on Martin at 12. fine, based on BBI knowledge as above, no videos.

Sometimes what you loose in supposed but as yet unrealized 'upside',

You gain in the more polished or versatile players effect on those who play to the left and right of him.

It is the 'synergy and the particular part of the team' theory, you are looking to consolidate what we know can work, i.e. Eli passing game, and quickly.

I would still follow up with a Guard in round 2 as well as a classic old school TE as early as round 3.

In comment 11615390 chopperhatch said:

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Cant miss O lineman in this draft outside of Matthews. The thing is, he improves your line in two spots and makes future FA pick ups easier for the Giants. Lets say Beatty comes back and plays well. No prob, Zach Martin can kick inside and play G. Beatty stinks and we cut him next year? No problem, he has the ability and tape to be at peast a capable LT. Plus next free agent period, we can seek a G instead of a LT. In terms of value alone, there is NOBODY in this draft that brings as much value to any team as Martin would bring to the Giants.

This guy is the real deal and will be a solid day 1 starter with good versatility. There is something to be said about that. IMO though he doesnt have the upside of some players he is probably one of the safest picks in the entire draft and 2nd safest OL under Matthews.

With all that said, there are picks at more premium positions like a pass rushing DT in Donald whose ceiling is so much higher.

Perhaps the biggest key to this is realizing we are in a uniquely deep draft overall and it also veey deep in potential plug and play lineman. The likelihood we get one at 43 is very high.

Its kind of like asking do you want a cross between Geno Atkins and John Randle for your first pick and STILL likely get a good starter for the OL at 43 or another Justin Pugh round 1?

Ill go with the former.

Lewan is a blue chip LT talent, no one but the dolts here who fawn over Martin doubts that. Martin is NOT A TACKLE in the NFL, Lewan is and he's bigger and more athletic. THis place is getting stupider by the day.

I've seen lewan dominate.

IMO he's better than Beatty already. Take him and don't look back.