| For some reason people seem to be sleeping on Phillip Gaines (6003, 193), the big bodied cornerback from Rice who stunned scouts by clocking as fast as 4.31s in the forty at the combine. Gaines had dinner with the Jacksonville Jaguars last month the evening before his pro-day and has trips lined up with the New York Giants, Arizona Cardinals, Miami Dolphins and Buffalo Bills. He’s also worked out with the Cincinnati Bengals and Tampa Bay Bucs. Gaines is presently rated as a fifth rounder on our cornerback board. |
Weren't there off-field issues with him(or do I have the wrong guy)?
And IIRC, some guys on BBI were intrigued by him.
Then goes on to point-out a team taking him out to dinner. Has a list of other teams who are bringing him in for a look. Yet somehow they are sleeping on him.
It's getting frustrating belaboring this point, but the draft is NOT about this year. Only very unusual circumstances or a really dominant talent can be considered as reasons for drafting for an immediate need.
I think that in the current NFL, you can NEVER have enough DBs- injuries, spread offenses, the Eagles splitting RB out as WR. In other words, there will be a number of situations where you could see as many as 5, and in extreme cases, 6 DBs on the field.
To handle that, you need DBs who can rotate in to give a quick breather to someone, to react to certain personnel packages, or to fill in for injuries in game.
I noted on a different thread that I am beginning to believe that the Giants may go BPA at #12, but then trade up into the end of the 1st round, instead of waiting for #43. I think a guy like Gaines COULD be a target for such an aggressive move.
Something else to consider, while we bemoan the DL personnel, there are good pass rushers at DE on the team- but the #1 thing that would help those pass rushers isn't another pass rusher- but DBs who can force the QB to hold the ball for another second or two.
It would appear that the Giants secondary is very much in tact. Why would he take a DB high in the draft when the team was destroyed by the OL, and at times DL, last season?
The Prince situation plays an important part here, I doubt they would trade their best CB for something unproven, but you never know. I'd like to try and keep Prince with DRC, that's a great duo on the outside. But maybe they figure they won't be able to pay both of them in the long run.
If they could square away DL and OL and still get Gaines in the 3rd that would be incredible.
Prince's contract is up next year. Do the Giants ante up perhaps $7MM per to keep a very good, but not great CB? Or do they plug in a CB on his rookie contract with a year of seasoning who may be as good or better?
That's why you don't draft solely for need, or for this year's perceived weaknesses. If this, or another, guy has that kind of value, and that value is higher enough than say Donald, or an OL, or a wideout, then that trumps everything.
Easy.
The best way to improve the DL is to force the QB to hold the ball a second or two longer. Another DL body isn't likely to do that- but adding yet another good cover DB can. Once the QB gets gun shy from getting hit, the DBs will find more "floaters" being thrown and have more pick opportunities. Remember that improving a pass rush isn't just about adding rushers.
As far as not going OL in the first 2 picks- the Giants primary need is really ROG (Snee's spot). Unless one of the 2 top OTs falls to #12, there isn't much point in drafting an OT, as the guy isn't likely to be an improvement on the current OTs. OG can be found as late as the 3rd or 4th round, so you don't need to force the pick just because there is a need.
Maybe I'm in the minority but I feel like this draft is different - they need more talent on the OL above any other position on the roster.
I completely understanding taking a DB if you think his talent trumps every other player/position of need. But do we see any guys like that in this draft?
Fans make the mistake of looking only at the season at hand when it comes to the draft. Thinking longer term.
UFA addresses the season at hand, by and large.
That all said, I've been clear too that I think Martin will be our pick at #12.
It's no secret Gilbride was a 5-7 step drop, throw downfield play caller. We don't know shit about what McAdoo will be, and thus what demands he will make of the OL. To me there isn't a bigger story with the Giants than the potential sea change from Gilbride to McAdoo.
But there's also the fact that players have to be ON the 53-man roster or IR'd to keep them in GIANTS blue. And the league won't allow IR'ing a guy who isn't really hurt like teams did in the old days.
The present roster will experience considerable numbers pressure from the possibility of having 3 QBs, from the probability of carrying 5 Safeties, from the OL and DL situations, and does not seem to have room for yet another corner (they historically carry 5 CBs) unless they are already giving up on Hosley, which would be a major departure from their pattern of usually hanging on to drafted players throughout their rookie contract, OR they are getting ready to trade one.
Further note that 3 of the top corners were recently signed as free agents (DRC, Thurmond, & Special Teams ace Bowman), another was recently re-signed because he played well last year (McBride), and Prince is a 1st rounder who is generally well regarded. Add Hosley and they've already got 6 corners likely to make the 53-man roster, and that doesn't include return man / corners Charles James and Laron Scott, or any of the other Practice Squad corners like Junior Mertile who they like well enough to keep around from last year's camp.
There's no way that they can rationalize carrying 7 corners on the 53 man roster. Someody would have to go, and they are unlikely to release somebody that they just signed. So the likelyhood of drafting one is very low. And if they do draft one, it could be a sign that somebody (Amukamara? Hosley has little value and the other 4 are newly signed) is being traded.
However, that does not mean that they should ignore the corners in this year's draft. They need to know about players who will be suiting up for opponents, and who may be free agent acquisition candidates down the road somewhere.
But actually drafting one next month? Highly unlikely at this point UNLESS they are trading somebody.
You've now had it explained six ways from Sunday, yet you keep saying the same thing over and over. I understand your concern with the OL; no one I know is satisfied that all our problems in that area are solved. However, you're ignoring the fact that your view of the draft is both skewed and dangerous.
You complain that the Giants ignored the OL and hence put themselves in a bad position last year. That is only partially true. They've drafted developmental OL in the appropriate spots. Unfortunately, they failed to develop. Whether this is personnel, coaching, or a combination of the two (my choice), it sums up the situation.
Add to this lack of development that the Giants out-and-out gambled that Baas and Snee would be able to provide one more year at an adequate level. This didn't happen and we know how the rest went.
Any OL they're likely to draft in the 1st round is far more unlikely to start than ride the bench. Pugh was an exception, forced by the quick deterioration of the OL. the fact that he performed well for a rookie hardly means that another rookie would do the same. I reference the below-average-to-poor performances put in by the OL drafted before Pugh last year. There's no free lunch in Physics; there's no sure thing in the NFL.
You draft for the future, not the present. That's, for the most part, the way the Giants have run things. Their overall success bears witness that this is the correct approach.
It's only when need and BPA coincide that you get what look like pure need picks. Sometimes they work out right away; sometimes it still takes a few years; sometimes they bust. Welcome to life as a GM in the NFL.
It's no secret Gilbride was a 5-7 step drop, throw downfield play caller. We don't know shit about what McAdoo will be, and thus what demands he will make of the OL. To me there isn't a bigger story with the Giants than the potential sea change from Gilbride to McAdoo.
Great point, and one that is too often ignored.
His hiring over Sullivan was IMO THE story of the offseason.
As I said earlier, you don't appear to understand anything addressed to you that doesn't agree with your fakakta ideas.
No one, I repeat NO ONE has said anything like that.
Narwocki Strikes Again! - ( New Window )
I'd take that at #43. Amukamara, Thurmond, Bowman, and James all have contracts that end in 2015. Reese has always said the draft is for the future. If we did take Gaines at #43, it would be like taking Joseph just before Cofield became a FA, and taking Hankins just before Joseph became a FA. We also took Moore the year before Tuck became a FA. Seems to be a pattern.
But if you're going to do so, given how stacked we are at CB for this year, then I hope we'd be more inclined to trade down in the first given our other needs.