We have no young hitting in the system, we will be screwed for years! Pineda isn't even good, he had half a good season. Great job blowing another one Yanks.
and the Cubs are touted to have one of the best minor league systems and still have not won a WS for 100 plus years and still counting.
IMO the Cards have a great system, a good plan and keep in it going. The Pirates and Nats systems have been touted too that I like, but with one winning season in Pittsburgh is a long time and the Nats seem to be floundering from there playoff losses. Its hard to gauge any way you look at things.
If it was that easy anyone could do it right?
Still good chatter, keep it coming.
Well, you can't say he isn't mashing in PCL right now
That thread back. i was thrilled with the trade, I also understood why Yankee fans were upset. I was not one of them, someone bring it back, I would love it. I know some here that wouldn't.
Are idiots on espn and fans of other teams who are so blinded by hatred that they ignore the obvious fact that most pitchers use something - pine tar, sunscreen, whatever - to get a better grip on the ball. Even buckholtz said last night that he uses stuff and Lester had something in his glove during the ws last year.
Baseball people don't complain but somehow dumb fucks on the internet know better.
Moron Yankee haters, time is right to bash that cheater, since he easily handles the Sox last night, to even consider the Yanks with him and possibly Tanaka as young pitchers that may handle the Sox just fine makes a few really pissed off. of coarse the level headed understand how inconsistent even consistent pitchers are.
at the time, Montero had finished a strong couple months
with the Yanks, while Pineda had been dominant for a good chunk of that season. I didn't love or hate the trade (and said so on that thread IIRC), but remember feeling the Yanks knew something about Montero that made him expendable.
Right now, it looks like we sold high on Montero. But it would also take more than 2 strong starts before we can declare Pineda an outright win for the Yanks
like seeing a player comeback from injury, and his stuff looks legit nasty. I think with Nova and CC not looking too good, Pineda's emergence is huge for the Yankees. He looked really nasty last night, and he's still really young. Yankee fans have to be pumped about him.
That being said, he was using pine tar last night and he's lucky he's not suspended for 10 games.
like seeing a player comeback from injury, and his stuff looks legit nasty. I think with Nova and CC not looking too good, Pineda's emergence is huge for the Yankees. He looked really nasty last night, and he's still really young. Yankee fans have to be pumped about him.
That being said, he was using pine tar last night and he's lucky he's not suspended for 10 games.
Lester and Bucholz were spotted using a substance at different points last year, and nothing happened, so I have no problem with Pineda getting away with it last night
I will say, however, that he needs to learn to be more discreet about it in the future:)
Many of the top pitchers in the game have admitted to it. Is a foreign substance as bad as HGH? The pitchers in todays game are at such a disadvantage with smaller parks & bigger batters as well as smaller strike zones. If it's not completely obvious I don't see a big deal.
How many innings do you think Pineda can give you this year? Not taking anything away from the guy nor am I trying to start some stupid trash talk. But seriously how many innings can he be relied upon? I would say 150 if you were lucky.
He was never going to catch for the Yankees. He was too big and not athletic enough to stick behind the plate. Certainly not playing for Joe Girardi. It was also telling that the Yankees didn't have him working at 1B. He couldn't do it and the Yanks didn't want other teams seeing what else Montero couldn't do. The guy was a 21 year old DH. Now we see Montero's work ethic. He shows up for Mariners camp 40 lbs. overweight. The Yankees knew there was risk in acquiring Pineda and Campos, but they knew it was better to gamble on young power arms than a kid that would probably never be able to play the field.
Many of the top pitchers in the game have admitted to it. Is a foreign substance as bad as HGH? The pitchers in todays game are at such a disadvantage with smaller parks & bigger batters as well as smaller strike zones. If it's not completely obvious I don't see a big deal.
With the start he has had this year and Girardi on record as saying there is no innings limit why would anyone think he couldn't pitch the entire year. He is a horse and seems to be healthy.
If you can't see why Yankee fans were at least disappointed...
that a guy who looked to be the first homegrown .300/30/100 prospect the farm had brought up in a long time (Cano of course excepted, though he has not hit all three of those milestones in the same year yet) I don't know what to tell you. Yeah they didn't know where he would play, but even as a DH or a 1B the guy we saw during that call-up looked like a stud. I understood the trade, I was okay with it, but I also understood why people were upset about it.
so they were somehow experts and parrotted the same crap over and over and over on various Yankees threads. Wahhh we have no young bats anywhere close to playing, wahhhhh. Those same people still overreact on a daily basis and pretend to know everything.
1) Cashman has said there will be no innings limit on Pineda. They are counting on at least 175.
2) There is no way in Hell that is dirt. Apparently a lot of pitchers use pine tar, but I had never heard of it before last year.
3) What I want to know is how did he get his hand so clean?
4) I can honestly say I was a fan of this trade from the start. They got 1 MLB pitcher with serious stuff and another minor league pitcher with potentially better stuff. This was for a guy who was slated to be a part time DH for the immediate future on this team and a 2nd tier pitcher. At the time, I was actually more upset about losing Noesi.
1. That's great news.
2. I think the dude that said it was dirt was kidding. We all know what it was.
3. A towel?
4. I understood the trade. I'm not going to pretend like I knew it would be a HR, but anytime you can get a stud young pitcher, you take that chance. Also, the fact that Montero had no position and they didn't like him as a catcher made this trade make sense even more.
A towel? That was a lot of pine tar, which is extremely sticky. A towel isn't cutting it. He has to have used some serious cleanser and a scrub brush. It was impressive how clean they got in between innings. They really wanted no trace left over.
did u look at his minor league stats? did u watch his at bats when he played for the yankees? so because pineda had two great starts u have to rub it in our faces because we didn't like the trade at the time? really? are u really that cool of a person because YOU KNEW Pineda would be this good and Montero would be where he is?
And I am certainly not complaining that Pineda is pitching well. Obviously I am a Yankees fan and I want all of our players to do well. I just think threads like this are stupid. If the reverse happened I wouldn't be making stupid threads like this rubbing it in someone's face because they were attached to a home grown prospect that got traded.
I will add, about the trade, that it was a very unpopular stance to approve of the deal when it was made. It was even worse when Pineda went down. But, no matter how it turns out for any of the players involved, I still think it was the correct move.
On one hand, you have a guy who, at the time, was considered a potential ace and another considered a potential future ace. For half of a season Pineda dominated the AL. It seeemed with further conditioning and arm strength, he could be a front of the rotation guy. He may not even have had the best stuff of the two pitchers.
On the other hand, you have a highly touted minor league hitter who had a very good two week span in the majors. But, he was a terrible catcher and was blocked at 1B (where he wasn't any better defensively) and at least partially blocked at DH for the foreseeable future given the age of Jeter, A-Rod, Teixeira, etc. This is a guy, who, regardless of how good he turned out, was not likely to play every day for a while. As an aside, I was never enamored with him, mostly for those reasons. given the choice of a career DH or a young pitcher, I'd choose the pitcher every time especially since it's much easier to fill in a bat than an arm.
you find this thread stupid, I found your extreme overeaction and know-it-allness annoying. If you and the others stop, I'll stop. If you and the others never freaked out uncontrollably and ruined multiple threads, this thread never would have existed. So lets both stop and call it even?
1) Cashman has said there will be no innings limit on Pineda. They are counting on at least 175.
2) There is no way in Hell that is dirt. Apparently a lot of pitchers use pine tar, but I had never heard of it before last year.
3) What I want to know is how did he get his hand so clean?
4) I can honestly say I was a fan of this trade from the start. They got 1 MLB pitcher with serious stuff and another minor league pitcher with potentially better stuff. This was for a guy who was slated to be a part time DH for the immediate future on this team and a 2nd tier pitcher. At the time, I was actually more upset about losing Noesi.
Regarding Campos, TINSTAAPP. He was a nice prospect, if healthy (and right now he isn't) he'll continue to be one. But he also hadn't pitched above short-season ball when we got him. It's like Arodys Vizcaino, high ceiling but as good a chance of injury or shit-the-bed as making it to the pros and excelling. Pineda was a nice get, to be sure, but I understand the frustration. I agree with kmed, people going apeshit about it was a little unreasonable. But that doesn't mean the frustration and disappointment was incomprehensible.
my thoughts exactly. It was def on the minority side to approve of the trade, at least on bbi. The really loud and obnoxious ones were on team Montero. I was ok with the trade, I defended the move because you don't often get young pitchers of Pinedas talents too often and you have to give something to get something like that. Like you said, Montero was destined to be a DH too and we are a team filled with DH caliber players.
were moaning and groaning about the trade not taking into consideration what the Yanks knew about Montero. Do you think the Yanks would try to dump a player who could actually catch and didn't have a hole in his swing and had a great worth ethic and didn't use PED's and wasn't a compulsive eater?
The Yankees knew all of those things about him(except maybe the PED's). That's essentially my point, these loud and obnoxious fans who think they know everything can't possibly know enough information to freak out over anything.
there seems to be a sentiment in baseball that during the colder months, the hitters would almost prefer the pitchers have some pine tar to keep the ball from slipping, particularly the pitchers who throw mid to high 90's. It can't be comfortable stepping in the box against that kind of velocity with a slick baseball. Probably the reason the issue wasn't raised last night. That and the Sox pitcher was likely doing something similar. How DOES Buccholz keep his hair so slimy all game long? Inquiring minds want to know...
I don't know who the Yankees announcers were last night
but I assume it was Cone and Leiter...anyway, they both readily admitted they used pine tar to help grip the ball regularly. Sounds like it's a gray area of the rules, and plenty of pitchers take advantage of it
I don't disagree about Campos. My point was merely he had great stuff with a very high ceiling. Of course that was in limited work at a low level. But, he was a throw in. He certainly, at that stage, was a more promising prospect than Noesi, who I actually didn't like letting go. I was wrong on him.
The bottom line, every FA move or trade can't be evaluated strictly on results. Just like with the draft, some moves work out and some don't. some players live up to contracts and some don't. What you have to look at is was it a sound decision when it was made, not in hindsight. I think at the time, this was absolutely the right decision. Whether or not it plays out that way is still undecided, but leaning heavily in the Yanks favor...and that is after Pineda lost a full season.
To me the hole in the swing is even secondary. I don't care if he was a legitimate masher and still was. The bottom line was, he was never going to amount to more than a DH on this team for at least 3 or 4 years. During that same span, the Yankees had a handful of veteran players who were also going to DH from time to time. So, he wasn't even going to be a full time player as a DH here.
No one knows what's gonna happen to a kid as he develops. Montero looked like a no-brainer long term asset. Now? Not so much. Prospects are hit and miss, even at the top level.
Is pine tar legal on the hands of pitcher? It is a legal substance in baseball...when used according to the rules. I don't think it is within the rules, but as many have pointed out, it isn't really frowned upon because it actually makes it easier for a pitcher to grip the ball in the cold weather.
I know I was excited to see montero in Yankee pinstripes. When they traded him I understood the trade but wasn't very happy. We wanted to see montero develop as a Yankee. We all get emotional about shit like that. Sometimes we are right and sometimes we are wrong. The great GMs succeed because they leave emotion out of it.
Some fans even go as far as labeling a future NYG ring of honoree as a fraud, only to watch that player, a few weeks later, lead his team to another Super Bowl title. Emotions... They can be a bitch.
I don't disagree about Campos. My point was merely he had great stuff with a very high ceiling. Of course that was in limited work at a low level. But, he was a throw in. He certainly, at that stage, was a more promising prospect than Noesi, who I actually didn't like letting go. I was wrong on him.
The bottom line, every FA move or trade can't be evaluated strictly on results. Just like with the draft, some moves work out and some don't. some players live up to contracts and some don't. What you have to look at is was it a sound decision when it was made, not in hindsight. I think at the time, this was absolutely the right decision. Whether or not it plays out that way is still undecided, but leaning heavily in the Yanks favor...and that is after Pineda lost a full season.
Oh I absolutely agree with that. If Corey Black turns into a good MLB pitcher it doesn't mean the Soriano trade was shit, Soriano at a steep discount was sorely needed last year. It means the Yanks dealt a low percentage prospect for a proven hitter and (if he does) he happened to make it. Just like you generally can't project injuries. If you trade for a player who had been healthy to date and he breaks his leg or ends up getting TJS the next year it doesn't mean it was a bad trade.
IMO the Cards have a great system, a good plan and keep in it going. The Pirates and Nats systems have been touted too that I like, but with one winning season in Pittsburgh is a long time and the Nats seem to be floundering from there playoff losses. Its hard to gauge any way you look at things.
If it was that easy anyone could do it right?
Still good chatter, keep it coming.
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Baseball people don't complain but somehow dumb fucks on the internet know better.
Right now, it looks like we sold high on Montero. But it would also take more than 2 strong starts before we can declare Pineda an outright win for the Yanks
That being said, he was using pine tar last night and he's lucky he's not suspended for 10 games.
There is no point in trying to convince anyone that Yankee fans aren't like that so we might as well embrace it.
#Heel
That being said, he was using pine tar last night and he's lucky he's not suspended for 10 games.
Lester and Bucholz were spotted using a substance at different points last year, and nothing happened, so I have no problem with Pineda getting away with it last night
I will say, however, that he needs to learn to be more discreet about it in the future:)
Lester
If he knew something about Montero's PED use, then this move was totally ninja.
My buddy and I were like "who the hell is THIS guy?". I kept making comments all game about how he'd look good in pinstripes.
With the start he has had this year and Girardi on record as saying there is no innings limit why would anyone think he couldn't pitch the entire year. He is a horse and seems to be healthy.
2) There is no way in Hell that is dirt. Apparently a lot of pitchers use pine tar, but I had never heard of it before last year.
3) What I want to know is how did he get his hand so clean?
4) I can honestly say I was a fan of this trade from the start. They got 1 MLB pitcher with serious stuff and another minor league pitcher with potentially better stuff. This was for a guy who was slated to be a part time DH for the immediate future on this team and a 2nd tier pitcher. At the time, I was actually more upset about losing Noesi.
2. I think the dude that said it was dirt was kidding. We all know what it was.
3. A towel?
4. I understood the trade. I'm not going to pretend like I knew it would be a HR, but anytime you can get a stud young pitcher, you take that chance. Also, the fact that Montero had no position and they didn't like him as a catcher made this trade make sense even more.
And I am certainly not complaining that Pineda is pitching well. Obviously I am a Yankees fan and I want all of our players to do well. I just think threads like this are stupid. If the reverse happened I wouldn't be making stupid threads like this rubbing it in someone's face because they were attached to a home grown prospect that got traded.
On one hand, you have a guy who, at the time, was considered a potential ace and another considered a potential future ace. For half of a season Pineda dominated the AL. It seeemed with further conditioning and arm strength, he could be a front of the rotation guy. He may not even have had the best stuff of the two pitchers.
On the other hand, you have a highly touted minor league hitter who had a very good two week span in the majors. But, he was a terrible catcher and was blocked at 1B (where he wasn't any better defensively) and at least partially blocked at DH for the foreseeable future given the age of Jeter, A-Rod, Teixeira, etc. This is a guy, who, regardless of how good he turned out, was not likely to play every day for a while. As an aside, I was never enamored with him, mostly for those reasons. given the choice of a career DH or a young pitcher, I'd choose the pitcher every time especially since it's much easier to fill in a bat than an arm.
Would post a pic of Frank Costanza if I knew how...
2) There is no way in Hell that is dirt. Apparently a lot of pitchers use pine tar, but I had never heard of it before last year.
3) What I want to know is how did he get his hand so clean?
4) I can honestly say I was a fan of this trade from the start. They got 1 MLB pitcher with serious stuff and another minor league pitcher with potentially better stuff. This was for a guy who was slated to be a part time DH for the immediate future on this team and a 2nd tier pitcher. At the time, I was actually more upset about losing Noesi.
Regarding Campos, TINSTAAPP. He was a nice prospect, if healthy (and right now he isn't) he'll continue to be one. But he also hadn't pitched above short-season ball when we got him. It's like Arodys Vizcaino, high ceiling but as good a chance of injury or shit-the-bed as making it to the pros and excelling. Pineda was a nice get, to be sure, but I understand the frustration. I agree with kmed, people going apeshit about it was a little unreasonable. But that doesn't mean the frustration and disappointment was incomprehensible.
That's a lotta strikes(sic).
The bottom line, every FA move or trade can't be evaluated strictly on results. Just like with the draft, some moves work out and some don't. some players live up to contracts and some don't. What you have to look at is was it a sound decision when it was made, not in hindsight. I think at the time, this was absolutely the right decision. Whether or not it plays out that way is still undecided, but leaning heavily in the Yanks favor...and that is after Pineda lost a full season.
Even the talk hosts only answered comments about it, and didnt push it.
Guy pitched 6 innings and Sox did nothing. If tar was that effective ClayB would have pitched as well.
Hopefully Pineda can stay healthy.
Pineda had major injury concerns at the time and has taken two years to come back. I count us pretty lucky that we are getting anything from him.
All pitchers have or are using something to "give them grip" on the ball. It's baseball. Deal with it.
Some fans even go as far as labeling a future NYG ring of honoree as a fraud, only to watch that player, a few weeks later, lead his team to another Super Bowl title. Emotions... They can be a bitch.
The bottom line, every FA move or trade can't be evaluated strictly on results. Just like with the draft, some moves work out and some don't. some players live up to contracts and some don't. What you have to look at is was it a sound decision when it was made, not in hindsight. I think at the time, this was absolutely the right decision. Whether or not it plays out that way is still undecided, but leaning heavily in the Yanks favor...and that is after Pineda lost a full season.
Oh I absolutely agree with that. If Corey Black turns into a good MLB pitcher it doesn't mean the Soriano trade was shit, Soriano at a steep discount was sorely needed last year. It means the Yanks dealt a low percentage prospect for a proven hitter and (if he does) he happened to make it. Just like you generally can't project injuries. If you trade for a player who had been healthy to date and he breaks his leg or ends up getting TJS the next year it doesn't mean it was a bad trade.