ESPN's Dan Graziano reports the Giants have concerns Eli Manning is entering the decline stage of his career.
Manning turned 33 in January. Per Graziano, it's part of the reason the G-Men decided not to extend Eli's contract this offseason, which would have provided significant cap relief. The Giants are hoping Manning is "energized" by the arrival of OC Ben McAdoo, but there's no guarantee he can rebound from the regression he showed in 2013. The Giants lost Hakeem Nicks and failed to upgrade at wide receiver or tight end in free agency, so Manning will be working with mostly the same supporting cast as last year. Manning recently underwent ankle surgery, but is expected to be ready for training camp.
Source: ESPN.com Apr 12 - 2:38 PM
I can't argue with a coaching staff that sees him every day but I have a very hard time using 1 season to cause concern. Awful line, lazy/disinterested Nicks, no TE, no running game. He "sucks" this year and it would be safe to say he is in fact likely in decline.
When you run an offense like that its not fun and it can wear you down especially when everything is malfunctioning around you.
Eli is very, very smart as is his brother. I'm sure Eli had to work hard to grasp Gilbride's complex plays. However, it seems like the WRs, TE's and sometimes RB's were not so gifted.
How many times did we see Eli and his receiver on the wrong page? This new offense has to make sure the QB and receiver are in sync 99% of the time.
Having no OL, no running game, and no WR that are getting open - doesn't leave a lot of options for any QB under ANY form of offense. And that has to be tiresome for anyone.
But so what? That means what? That Eli (or any QB who suffered such indignities for a full season) is done for their career? I don't see how it has anything to do with anything about the future of Manning's play. As far as I am concerned, give Manning the exact same 52 players he played with on the two SB years, and the odds are Manning in 2013 and 2014 plays BETTER than he did those two SB years because - unlike other positions - QB's usually mature like a good wine - at least until they break down from injuries or old age - neither of which seems to be the case with Manning.
I find it "funny" that I'm defending Manning when I was not a big supporter for the early part of his career. I still think he has obvious deficiencies. I think he has always been horrible with accuracy in the short and medium routes. I don't think I've ever seen him run a good screen play. I've always felt he does best when he has a solid supporting cast (i.e. he is likely to do worse than other QB when he doesn't have a great supporting cast).
But he changed my opinion of himself over time. While his accuracy didn't change, he demonstrated incredible skill with the long ball. He also convinced me with his accuracy on the sideline passes (ala Manningham's SB catch being the biggest example - but Manning hits that pass over and over and over again). He is tough as nails. He takes an incredible beating in the press - and from former players - and just keeps on ticking and, at least on the surface, shrugs it off. He clearly thinks of the team first. He's not a perfect QB - but neither was my all time favorite Simms. And Manning has won me over.
And - after waiting for so many years to find a replacement for Simms - to hear Giants' fans ganging up on Manning and questioning whether he has anything left - based upon the SHIT product the Giants organization put on the field in 2013 - is crazy - and without any justification and certainly not based upon any analysis of how any other QB in history would have fared under similar circumstances. And I have to therefore wonder about people's agendas.
What receivers might those be?
And, whatever opinion anyone previously had of Manning, why on God's earth would it be different after 2013? Does anyone have even one iota of evidence to suggest that Manning didn't have perhaps the best rating that any QB in the league would have had playing for the Giants last year? Who would have done better and why?
Have the Giants improved the OL? Yes, but to what level?
Is the defensive line stronger this year than last?
What happens to our linebacker situation, if
Beason goes down?
Is there any doubt, teams will try to take Cruz away from Eli next year?
RB is thin.....TE is non exixtant....
Eli does not have an elite line in front of him....the fact that Snee may be counted on, scares the hell out of me....
Will Eli get these "weapons" in the draft? How many first year players for the Giants, have ever been huge contributors on offense as starters?
There is no doubt that Eli developed "happy feet" last year.....how do you get that out of your mind?
Eli's main problem is inconsistency.....how do you hit Manningham, under pressure, in a SB, and miss Meyers wide open with no pressure in the Chicago game? This is not a rookie.....this is a 10 year vet, getting paid big bucks, not to make mistakes.....
Is this a blip or a trend? This season will be the answer.....
Multiple screen plays
In macs system.
I dont think he can.
He has no touch and
Is horrible on short passes.
He wont last long IMO.
Dont give him big contract
Until he proves himself.
There is no doubt that Eli developed "happy feet" last year.....how do you get that out of your mind?
Eli's main problem is inconsistency.....how do you hit Manningham, under pressure, in a SB, and miss Meyers wide open with no pressure in the Chicago game? This is not a rookie.....this is a 10 year vet, getting paid big bucks, not to make mistakes.....
Eli (and every QB in the league) get "happy feet" when their internal countdown clock is shortened because they have zero OL line - perhaps the single worst OL in Giants history.
"how do you hit Manningham, under pressure, in a SB, and miss Meyers wide open with no pressure in the Chicago game?"
I suspect you already know the answer to this Q. The answer is because of the differences in the supporting casts on the field during those two seasons. Give me a season when my QB throws the most passes in the league but has the fewest sacks, and I'll guarantee you my QB is going to have fantastic stats. On the other hand, give me the QB who has the highest number of sacks per pass attempt, and I'll promise you his stats are going to suck. Same QB. Two different results. The one hits Manningham and lots of similar plays all year long. The other hears his internal clock going off and misses wide open receivers with no apparent pressure that fans can see - but fans can't see the internal alarm clock - the alarm clock that has been cut in half or more due to playing behind the worst OL in team history.
"this is a 10 year vet, getting paid big bucks, not to make mistakes....."
With all due respect, this is a bs statement. Are you honestly going to try to tell this board that Brady would have played flawless mistake free football for the Giants of 2013? Peyton? Who? Who is this football player who has Superman stamped on his chest and is able to play mistake free football behind one of the worst OL in football history?
The same place he would have led them any other year of his career. You choose. But the answer wouldn't be different in 2013 than any other year of his career. At least not based upon any evidence you - or anyone else on BBI - can demonstrate.
Eli will be energized for sure, when he can get out of his play what he puts into it, and not being at the mercy of receivers running a wrong route. The former offense was morally defeating, unrhythmic, completely unnatural for the type of player Eli is...
I truly feel people will be very surprised at how good Eli will be, even with a non stellar supporting cast, though I hope we can improve a lot through the draft
Anything remotely critical of Eli's performance last year doesn't mean "smear job" - it just means stupidity and worthy of being ignored.
His accuracy issues should make the Giants nervous. As he ages, he will start to lose some of his arm strength and will need to rely more on shorter routes. This isn't unusually for an aging QB.
My hope is that a new OC will help him with his accuracy and touch, which will help Eli transition into the second half of his QB career. Kerry Collins struggled at first with Fassel's system, which used a lot of screens, but Collins did improve with a lot of effort. If Eli can't do this, then we will see a new starting QB in 2016 because he probably won't have the arm strength to throw long passes as consistently as he has in the past.
book it now
Good point. I bet savvy BBIers even have statistics demonstrating that a quarterback's 10th year is the only year that matters when evaluating a player's career years later.
What in the fuck..
Well duh. All of Giants land is concerned after what we saw last year. But this thread is about Eli, not the Giants in general. And I seriously doubt you have any evidence that suggests Eli played worse than Brady would have played for the Giants last year. If you do, I'd love to hear it.
baadbill whispers to arc: "I think oipolloi was using a bit of sarcasm to point out that there might be some flaws in logic in judging a 10 year career solely upon the basis of the 10th year alone while ignoring years 1 through 9"
Why would they be upset with the way Eli played last year? What evidence is there that Manning played worse than any other QB would have played for the Giants in 2013? I think, under the circumstances, he played fantastic and certainly better than Brady or Peyton or Vick would have played. Do you or anyone else have proof or evidence to the contrary?
Now why in the world would anyone be upset with Eli's play last year? Because he had a bad year....he had opportunities to turn games around last year and he didn't....this wasn't the 2011 Eli....this was the second half 2012 Eli.....
He played fantastic under the circumstances? Yes the supporting cast failed him, but he failed them also....
And you can say with a straight face that he played better than Brady or Peyton would have?
He's had two subpar years in a row.....Is that an indicator that he is in decline? Possibly....but he can erase all doubts with with another 2011 performance......
Nope. I'm saying you don't have one iota of evidence whether that's true or not. You don't have any idea whether, compared to Brady or Peyton (or whomever) Eli played much worse or much better than they would have. So, at the end of the day - you don't have any evidence at all to suggest whether Manning had a fantastic year under bad circumstances or a horrible year under bad circumstances.
You just don't know and don't have any way of knowing. Yet, you and some others here PRETEND to know that Eli had a horrible year. That's pure baseless bullshit. Maybe he did and maybe he didn't. One thing, however, is for sure. You have no way of knowing.
Jimmy, my point is ... how the heck do you know that? In order for you to know that, you'd have to have some way of knowing how Tom Brady would have played - remember he'd be playing with the worst OL line in Giants history; absolutely no running game; and basically no passing game.
So, under those circumstances, the definition of "fantastic" would be playing better than 90% of the quarterbacks in the league had they played for the Giants last year. And exactly what information do you have that indicates where Eli stacks up in that equation? How could you possibly know?
He had a bad year...the entire offense had a bad year.
Lets not go over it and make some non-sensical comparison as to how other top QBs would have fared. There is no point.
He had a bad year...the entire offense had a bad year.
Lets not go over it and make some non-sensical comparison as to how other top QBs would have fared. There is no point.
Of course there's a point. It's my belief Eli did not have a bad year. In fact, I'd argue he had the type of year that makes me proud. With no blocking of any kind and no running game or passing game, it would have been easy for most quarterbacks to simply take 100 sacks and/or throw the ball out of bounds. Or just hand off the ball even though there wasn't any running game.
But I saw Eli Manning stand in there and throw and throw some more and yet some more. With no help coming from anywhere. So, did he make bad decisions under those circumstances? Sure. What QB wouldn't? Did he seem to sometimes make bad throws when there was no apparent pressure? You bet. But, again, what do you expect? Quarterbacks use an internal clock that is based upon recent pressure. Last year that clock had to be 1/2 to 1/3rd of the normal time. Result? He forced throws when there really wasn't pressure because he perceived pressure that wasn't there.
The point of this Jimmy is quite simple. When you have the worst offense in team history. No OL. No running game. Only one WR. What the fuck do you expect? More to the point - how do YOU measure the performance? You know it is going to be ugly. But, how do you determine if he actually played better than others would have under the same circumstances?
You can't tell me you have that capability even though you seem to pretend that you do. But we all know that you don't - because none of us that information. It's impossible to know whether Manning was a hero or a goat last year - because you're trying to judge someone in the middle of a disaster. And, frankly, that's just plain dumb.
Don't misunderstand me...Eli tried hard and gave it his all. And we have seen him have good years and bad years, and good games and bad games.
But last season was not good.
Don't misunderstand me...Eli tried hard and gave it his all. And we have seen him have good years and bad years, and good games and bad games.
But last season was not good.
Well, imo that's just a silly thing to say. Answer me this - in hindsight, knowing the state of the OL, running game, and WR, what would have been a good year for Eli last year? And upon what basis would you reach that conclusion?
They would be equally stupid. There simply is no factual basis to evaluate the play of Eli Manning last year. None. Zip. Nada. At least not as fans. We have no basis to know if Eli Manning would have had a career year if he had the same players as the last SB or if he still would have had a horrible statistical year.
But that's the whole point, isn't it? The offense was so horrible that it is literally impossible to know if Manning actually played well under the circumstances or if he played poorly. Yet, somehow the media and some on BBI think they have some type of insight that tells them Manning had a lousy year DESPITE the deficiencies of the offense (in other words - some here seem to believe they know Manning would have been bad even with an all pro OL, running game, and WR trio). And my point is there is absolutely zero basis behind such statements. None. At. All.
But by the same token, it would be insane to not acknowledge Eli's poor play in the last 1.5 seasons. Without a gun to their heads regarding an extension, the Giants are doing the only rational thing they can do - wait and see.
People like Graziano make their living stirring the animal spirits in the average fan and by the posts on this thread, he's succeeded. Personally, I don't consider his writing to be worthy of serious discussion.
Eli is a solid QB that has had great performances in some of the biggest games of his career. However, he was just bad in 2013 and it didn't help the offense...and that is not an opinion.
I, as much as anyone, would love to see a bounce-back season in 2014.
that was Eli's season in a nutshell.
Their new center seriously injured his ankle four games into the 2012 season and has not seen the field since. He has had two surgeries on the ankle. Another Reese special.
And the return of Snee, a guy who is 4-5 in Vegas to be back on the sidelines, injured again, by week 4.
No running game ... check.
No blocking ... check.
Getting the living daylights smacked out of him play after play, week after week ... check.
Their new center seriously injured his ankle four games into the 2012 season and has not seen the field since. He has had two surgeries on the ankle. Another Reese special.
And the return of Snee, a guy who is 4-5 in Vegas to be back on the sidelines, injured again, by week 4.
And besides, the o-line may not be the whole story. Brady was sacked one more time than Manning and threw 16 less picks. Alex Smith was sacked just as many times and threw 20 less picks. Big Ben was sacked 5 more times and threw 10 more td's and 14 fewer picks.
The Giants FO should be considering the possibility that Manning is getting old fast in their planning. Even Eli Manning cannot escape from the clutches of Father Time.
And physically, I did think he lost a bit of zip on the ball towards the last season - but I don't have high confidence in that meaning anything (or that I'm even correct).