I am warming up to picking this kid if he is there at 12...very intelligent... 4.45 at his pro day...seems to love the game of football...He reminds me a bit of Antonio Pierce in terms of his football acumen...I think he will be a perennial pro bowler. Dominant defenses win Super Bowls gentlemen.
how do you project him to NYG?
Mclain. Beason. Barr...best 3 in about a decade he could fall to 12 it is possible
I think he's the most underrated prospect in the first round, but he's about as un-Antonio Pierce as a LB can get.
football intellect and film study..Pierce like ...not physical play
He's got a ton of upside, but am just real wary of these types of projects. With that said, I can see him being a possibility at 12. Could he play SAM? I just don't know
When I watch Barr he can dominate as a pass rusher but a little stiff in coverage and play diagnosis skills leave a lot to be desired. It is like watching a lighter version of Kiwanuka
be surprised, but not stunned, if he's the pick.
He is a tremendous pass rusher, especially considering he's only been playing defense for two years. But right now, that's it. He gets washed out of running plays, and is lost in space in coverage. That really isn't his fault. He's still learning. But that makes him a project, something we need to stay away from in the first four rounds IMO.
But Reese may well see otherwise. Barr has the type of freakish athleticism and length that may remind him of JPP, and has the frame to add another twenty pounds. Reese also likes to draft for the future. Kiwi is probably gone next year, and Moore is still an unknown himself. The Giants win by coming after teams with wave after wave of high quality pass rushers.
I still think Tennessee will take him at #11, because they play a 3-4, but I certainly wouldn't discount the possibility that the Giants will take him at #12 if the Titans pass.
but he's not a player you want in space at OLB, especially when PF's scheme puts so little premium on those two spots. We'd need him on the edge pointed downhill at the QB, and he'd need to demonstrate the ability to anchor the POA, play with his hand in the dirt, set the edge, contain, pursue from the back side, etc. IE, things he hasn't done before.
could be utilized very much like Von Miller. Denver plays a 4-3 with Fox yet Von Miller is very productive in there scheme...
The Giants have been looking for that type of player for yers and havent been able to find one.. a guy who can stay on the field as a SAM on running downs and then be utilized as an extra pass rusher on passing down..
That being said.. I dont think they take Barr..
I don't disagree with that, but we've seen nothing in the past from PF that indicates it's in his toolbox. Saying Kiwanuka wasn't up to the task is only a partial possible answer.
see him as DE he could be the pick. He can gain a little muscle weight and bulk and not lose any speed, making him a beast at that position, to go with JPP.
In comment 11618046
| see him as DE he could be the pick. He can gain a little muscle weight and bulk and not lose any speed, making him a beast at that position, to go with JPP.
He would need to do more than just bulk up. As JonC mentioned:
|he'd need to demonstrate the ability to anchor the POA, play with his hand in the dirt, set the edge, contain, pursue from the back side, etc. IE, things he hasn't done before.
If I'm wrong so be it. I don't think Barr ever makes it to 12 but if he does the giants will run to the podium and draft him.
I just don't think Barr lasts that long. Teams love and need pass rushers and there are plenty of teams at picks 1-11 that run the 3-4 defense or would be willing to taylor their defense for Barr. Guys like Barr never last---Big school, big production, good measurable attributes and from all accounts he's a good kid. He goes top. 7-8 in my opinion. If he lasts to 12... He's a Giant.
Those that say he isn't....you aren't paying attention.
That said, it would be a considerable risk because there will be a steeper-than-usual learning curve for him. He doesn't have a lot of experience in the typical 4-3 SAM role. He pretty much played a downhill role with a lot of pursuit. He will have to learn the stay at home, take on blocks and shed game. That takes some players a long time, others can learn it pretty quick.
we draft him, it will be as a DE, not an LB, except on rare plays. He'll be a pass rusher exclusively his first year as he gains weight and learns techniques that allow him to anchor against the run. Teams will know this and could counter that by throwing a lot of screens behind him as he gets upfield. In his second year, he'll become more of a complete DE.
Drafting him to be a full time LB is a mistake IMO. DE or nothing.
needs to be an immediate impact player. I don't think they could select Barr.
He would really need to be coached up to play in a defensive scheme/position that he's never done. So, he'd sit for a whole year and just play specials or Fewell would need to re-do the whole defense in the next 5 months.
he'd be in the exact same position that Moore is in right now. Both are speedy pass rush smallish DEs.
Do we need another Moore this year?
1. This team needs another pass rusher and values that skill above all except possibly QB. It's very much a possibility that Barr's not only the best size/speed freak but also the most productive pass rusher remaining when they hit the clock. Also it's a thin area of the draft (pass rushers).
2. Reese has shown a knack for players with upside who'd have likely been picked higher had they had more of a track record (whether it's a junior entry, a player who had an injury, or a new position).
3. They've deployed stand up rushers before and had agreed to terms with a similar sized rush LB just last month.
Nobody will know who the Giants pick will be until the first 11 play out, but there's no reason to believe Barr isn't in the range of on their board that will lead to serious consideration. If they believe he's a prospect on the level of the Von Miller or Demarcus Ware I think they'd be willing to take on the challenge of carving out a unique role.
because we have Damontre Moore. I'm not judging whether Barr is Osi or not (I'm not a scout), but from an athletic ability standpoint he's seems more comparable to both Aldon Smith and Von Miller than Damontre Moore.
To get a kid with his length, his burst at 12 would be a good value. Bottom line, kid can rush the passer. In a versatile scheme you can have him all 3 downs, shifting from SAM to rush end. Giants need to get to the QB more this year.
I'm more like what George Gilder wrote in Wealth & Poverty: a great product creates its own demand. Maybe Fewell would adjust his defense if he had a talent like Barr? Use him in the manner the Seahawks do Irvin? Seattle does platoon their defensive front seven . So in that sense Barr would be making an immediate impact.
The thing is I don't like Barr. And I am dutifully humbled realizing that Kirwan does. To me this guy is from the LaVarr Arrington-Mike Croel school of straight-line demolition derby antagonists, who don't really accomplish all that much on a football field. Buckeye Shanzier I place in this group as well, although his nominal starting point is inside the formation. But Pat is most likely correct. If the Giants draft him, they will conceptually have a plan in mind.
drafting 3-4 LBs and trying to make them 4-3 LBs. They don't rush their LB's.
But not for this team. He's not a good fit, IMO. And you shouldn't be spending a premium pick like that on a kid you're going to have to try and mold into something he's less natural at.
Take a guy who can step in, play a natural position and make an impact right off the bat.
to be an excellent pass-rushing 4-3 DE. Boylhart actually thinks that his best position. I want Barr, Evans or Donald with the 12th pick.
Amazing character guy. Awesome pass rush and tfl with only limited time at playing D.
He can easily play D end in our 4-3 system. Jason Taylor had similar size as Barr and Taylor is one of the best 4-3 D ends in the last 20 years. Everyone is worried that he cant play 4-3 end b/c he is too thin. BS this kid has unreal insticts to get behind the line of scrimage, and we would be stealing a futer pro bowler at the 12 pick. BPA no question is Barr at 12 unless Matthews somehow drops to 12.
This is only IMO
If they pick Barr, their LBers in a 3-4 would be Beason, Barr, Kiwi, and Moore.
Hankins at NT
Jenkins and JPP at DE
Obviously, they a 4-3 for now. But if Giants don't make playoffs, Coughlin and Fewell are likely gone, so who knows what could happen.
what could happen to the coaching staff. In the early nineties, the Giants planned to switch to the 4-3 as LT was slowing down. Nothing like that is happening here and now.
And why, every season since the internet became popular, has someone wondered if and when the Giants could go back to the 3-4.
23.5 sacks 41.5 tfl 3 FF in 2013. These were his first 2 years playing D. Freakish
for Barr. Don't care what you call him, or what number he wears. If he can get us 10-12 sacks next year, draft him @12 and play him. If PF doesn't know how to use him, oh well. . .
...hell, Robert Mathis played DE at only 245-250, you sure didn't hear anyone say he was too too small to play DE in the pros after he started terrorizing QBs. Barr is bigger and taller, and just as, in not more, athletic.
|We'd need him on the edge pointed downhill at the QB, and he'd need to demonstrate the ability to anchor the POA, play with his hand in the dirt, set the edge, contain, pursue from the back side, etc.
I mean Osi started for us for years, and he couldn't do any of that shit worth a dayum.
to draft a positional conversion at 12. We don't have the roster strength to do that right now.
can never have enough pass rushers. Jerry could see JPP2 in Barr. That what he lacks can be taught. That what he already has can't. The fact that Barr is far from a finished product might not mean that much if the Giants conclude that his upside is big enough.
The problem is that Barr does look better right now as a 4-3 OLB than a 4-3 DE, and seems to be another "high ceiling" "low floor" player. We're supposed to be getting away from those types of players this year, given how many times we've been burned in the past.
Torbor, Sintim and Tracy not mean anything around here?
40 at the combine and IIRC a pretty poor 3 cone; he simply wasn't an agile, fast player.
How about Brad Van Pelt? Harry Carson? It's not the conversion factor alone, it's whether or not the guy is a player,1st and foremost.
and Tracy we're fourth and sixth round picks. We also got some mileage out of Torbor. A lot of teams would have taken him in the fourth if we hadn't. Sintim was just a disaster.
Look, I would pass on Barr. He's a "project," despite his talents. But I wouldn't be surprised if the Giants took him. And I wouldn't be furious either.
But I think he'll be gone. As will Matthews, Donald, and Evans. Ebron could end up being the default pick, unless the Giants pull a semi stunner by selecting CK or Lee.
college players that we tried to convert into 4-3 LB's. Our coaching staff can't do it.
Osi did those things when he wanted to, and he was a 4-3 DE prospect.
It's pretty simple as Phil made clear, I see the same player he does. But, fans and even NYG brass has often made the mistake of projecting/converting and failed.
to switch to a 3-4 which I am opposed to, why would they pony up all the money they just gave to Beason, who demonstrated he's not 3-4 ILB when he was with Carolina. I believe whoever grades out higher as the BPA when the Giants pick will be their pick.
those are big pieces of the scouting criteria, I'm not pulling out of the ether.
not that I hate the player, but in this draft there is no need to take such a raw project.
this team needs guys who can step in and play now and there are many of them who will be available at a position of need in round 1.
Only Clowney in this class provides more pass rush ability...an area we definitely need to upgrade. He played multiple positions for UCLA last year when their D-line had some injury attrition. Even lining up as a stand up DE on the LoS. Has the frame to easily acclimate to playing @265-270#. Has explosive jam in his hands an elite first step and the ability to dip and turn the corner. When I watch him frankly I see the second coming of Jason Taylor. I don't want to hear any Sintim comparisons either...they don't wash. Sintim didn't have a fraction of Barr's athletic skillset. He's a tough physical player who shocks people on contact. I suspect he'll have little difficulty transitioning to DE in an acceptable time frame. He'll more than make it worth the Giants investment in him.
Raw usually refers to someone with great amounts of talent but has not produced much. Barr is mostly inexperienced. Even with his inexperience over the past 2 seasons, Barr's pass rush production had been the best in the draft. Barr's college production plus room for growth (both learning the position, and physically) makes him an extremely high celing player. Barr has a reputation as a high character person with a high motor and amazing work ethic which makes him a high floor player. I see him as a low risk high reward player. A player is a player dosen't matter where u put him on the field. a player will find a way to make a play and Barr is a player and he will make plays.
If the Giants in the 80's played a 4-3D would you say sont draft LT. he wont fit in our scheme ,or do u not think he would have made an amazing DE in a 4-3 system.
I'm not trying to compare Barr to LT, but what I am saying is its the player not the system. A player is a player and will find ways to make plays
Barr can be the JPP of this year draft,I know Resse used it on the Tighend we got Robinson,but Barr is just inexperienced like JPP was and very productive like JPP was and I didn't want to take a chance on JPP I was wrong Barr is the same.The Giants history on pass rusher has been very good.I would not mind getting him at all,I lean to Martin but Barr is very interesting and they guy I drooled over at the draft first glance in the early stages.Sometimes the first instinct is the best.
In comment 11618039
| I don't disagree with that, but we've seen nothing in the past from PF that indicates it's in his toolbox. Saying Kiwanuka wasn't up to the task is only a partial possible answer.
And this is why i dont think he is drafted..
Wasn't that impressed.Think his athleticism is overrated,and I don't think he's that strong or physical.
Another one of those guys where too much is being made of the forty time.
at UCLA at 6'5 and 250+ pounds? That's nuts.
the guy just wans't cut out for the PRO game. Landry, Lombardi and Parcells wouldn't have gotten much out of this guy.
Just because Simtim STB here doesn't mean Barr will.