Aaron Donald

No offense, but you are clueless if you think Suh hasn't been dominant in the NFL. He gets double teamed basically every play and still has 27.5 sacks in 4 years. Which is great from the DT position. He is also a great run stopper. He won rookie of the year and 2010 DLineman of the year. Has 3 Pro Bowls (Which doesn't mean much as it is a fan vote). He has also been a first team All Pro 3 times and a 2nd team All Pro once. That is great considering he has only been in the league for 4 years.

In comparison to that HOFers Michael Strahan & Warren Sapp were both 1st team All Pro 4 times and a 2nd team All Pro 2 times. So Suh has 1 less 1st & 2nd All Pro then Strahan & Sapp who were in the league for 14 years & 12 years compared to Suh's 4 years of experience.

In comment 11618635 GmenDynasty said:

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In comment 11618610 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: Neverthless, my point was actually that if a rookie OL taken at #43 can start immediately on our line then we probably didn't pick up a whole lot of valuable guys in free agency. just sayin'... Well Googs we needed 2- 4 guys (depending on status of Beatty and Snee). We got 2 starters in the offseason in Schwartz, Walton (we paid him starter money with the belief he should fully recover from the ankle injury) with a couple backup/borderline starters in Jerry and Brown. Is that enough? Don't even think Reese knows what to expect from Beatty/Snee. Therefore I think we WILL go OL in the first 2 rounds, latest third round.

Yeah i agree we paid Walton starter money so we all better hope that works out. Anybody relying on Snee to contribute is making a mistake. I hope he does but that is as far as a sensible person should go.

My realistic view is we got Schwartz and improved our bench which is helpful but still not stable. Especially since Snee is done after this year anyway and we have no reliable TEs to help the line.

Keep investing in the line imo. I like Donald a lot too but the smart short/long term play is O-line.

Then Donald, because he played with a much better team. Suh had Jared Crick on the same line, Phillip Dillard at LB and a damn good secondary with Alfonzo Denard, Prince Amukamara, DeJon Gomes, Eric Hagg and Larry Asante. Who are all NFL players.

Statistically Suh was nowhere near Donald in college.

Suh 125 total tackles, 49.5 tackles for loss and 24 sacks in 52 games

Donald 181 total tackles, 66 tackles for loss and 29.5 sacks in 51 games

You are talking about a Center and Guard. You rarely see potentially great Guards/Centers taken at 12. There are none in this draft. The Giants don't give up on players as quick as fans do. Don't see anyway they give up on Beatty who got 37.5 million a little over a season ago or Pugh who played very well at RT to move him to Guard. The top Guards and Centers in this draft are 2nd or 3rd round picks and you don't take a guy early just because he plays a certain position. Certain teams do that and they suck, but you don't see good franchises doing that.

If Lewan was a "blue chip" tackle like some on here seem to think he wouldn't be around at 12. Blue chip LTs go a lot higher then that. From 2004 to 2013 there were 11 Tackles taken between picks 10-20. Only 3 of them turned out to be good NFL players. Shawn Andrews was the 4th, but that was at G and not at tackle.

Go look at our Oline's from like 2006,07,08 when they were one of the best units in the league. We didn't have a first rounder. We had Snee (2nd) and McKenzie (2nd, but we signed him as a FA, Diehl (5th), O'Hara (UDFA) and Shubert (UDFA).

But the Super Bowl winners (It could have been both SB teams) from either 2003/2004 to 2011 there was only 1 starting Olineman out of all those teams that was a 1st round pick and that was Tarik Glenn for the Colts.

In comment 11618806 Big Rick in FL said:

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From 2004 to 2013 there were 11 Tackles taken between picks 10-20. Only 3 of them turned out to be good NFL players. Shawn Andrews was the 4th, but that was at G and not at tackle. \

I didn't say go run off and draft a Center with #12. I don't have a problem with a LT or Guard though. I never understood the logic of getting so caught up on individual player value that anyone can be so certain a Donald is worth a #12 pick but a near top end LT or Guard is not.

BTW - on you point above...are you suggesting only 3 Tackles taken after the #10 pick for an entire DECADE were any good? If so, you are crazy.

isn't without his flaws, namely whether he can hold up against the run. But he did it in college, and had 35 reps at the combine. And every other player has flaws, including Clowney.

I'd take him, but think it will be moot, because he'll most likely be gone by #12.

who was also undersized (more in the 290 range), also ran in the mid 4's, and was ironically picked by the Bears at 14.

He was one of the best players on a few excellent defenses and i'd definitely sign for Donald if he's as good as Harris was. Only odd thing about Harris was that he seemed to fizzle out pretty young (he's only 30 now and it seems he's not more than a rotational guy, but I guess that's the NFL).

Guard in this draft worth anywhere close to the 12th overall pick. Draft a Tackle for what? To sit behind a 1st round pick and a 2nd round pick that we paid almost 40 million dollars? Just can't see it happening.

No I said Tackles taken from pick 10-20 have been bad from 04-13. Here are the successful 3 out of 11. Ryan Clady, Anthony Davis and Brandon Albert. That means teams hit on Tackles less then 30% of the times with picks 10-20. That isn't very good for such high picks.

Obviously you can get lucky with a later pick. I was just stating that people are calling Lewan a blue chip tackle and that blue chip tackles go much higher then 12 overall.

I believe Harris had a pretty serious injury that he never fully recovered from, but he was very good when he was healthy.

To get a good Tackle at 12, but recently it hasn't worked out well for Tackles taken in that range. Would rather take a chance on a 2nd or 3rd round tackle then a top 15 pick. Yes I'm sure the percentages for a 2nd or 3rd round tackle succeeding are ever worse then the 30% that I stated, but wasting a 2nd or 3rd is a lot better then the 12th.

No player is a sure thing. I just don't see the value at 12 in a Guard, Center or Tackle in this draft. Unless it is Matthews or Robinson.

Isn't worth the 12 pick. I don't think we will have any shot at a LT in this draft that is worth the pick.

I don't think Guards are ever worth the 12th pick. Outside of last year the NFL seems to agree with me, because they are rarely drafted that high.

that perform well in the NFL as "getting lucky". Tackles taken after Rd 3 would probably be a better barometer of good fortune.

And I don't think picking a LT or Guard at #12 means Beatty should just be automatically benched or Pugh should be moved. I just believe getting more quality & youth at those positions will make this a more stable Offense next year and thereafter.

Competition always helps, injuries can occur anywhere, and who the hell knows how the rehab will come out on Beatty, Walton and Snee. Any one of them not making it can leave us with a big hole.

We need more depth and youth on the Oline, but I don't think you draft a guy at #12 for depth. In the later rounds yes go for it. We signed Beatty to a big contract for a reason and spent a 1st on Pugh last year. If Pugh continues to get better and Beatty returns to the guy we paid a ton of money too then you have a 12th overall pick sitting on the bench.

Like I said Guards rarely go that high. Since 1990 only 5 guards have went in the top 15 picks. I'm sure there are some tackles drafted in that time span moved to Guard, but you certainly don't want a guy drafted in the top 15 with the intention of playing Tackle winding up at Guard.

It's a passing league now. You need OL for pass pro and run blocking. If a guard is worth it, I don't care where he is drafted.

to determine when its appropriate to pick at a lot of positions. Just because the actual count is low doesn't mean a guy still may not be worth taking at #12 at Guard.

We ignored the O-line enough our premium picks in the past decade that it very well may be time to "indulge" ourselves this Draft to make up for it. No player is so bullet-proof that you can;t consider the next 5 or so guys on your board.

Rick - i am not conveying to you that I am an expert on the top players in this draft and the exact spot they should be drafted. But my overwhelming view is that we all "hope" the O-line is better than last year, and I just don't want to rely on hope versus solid investments.

you want to grab BPA (Best Playmaker Available). Who's the BPA left on the board most likely to tilt the outcome of a game in your favor?

That's the guy I'd want. I think that's why the Giants took JPP a few years ago.

And Chance Warmack went #10th overall just last year - that's how much the NFL values guards, IF the right man is there.

This year, the best guard (a desperate need of the Giants) is UCLA's Su'a Filo, who will go in the 1st round, but not that high. That's why I recommended a trade down to the middle of the draft. If he's gone, Stanford's Yankey would be good.

In comment 11618927 Manny in CA said:

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And Chance Warmack went #10th overall just last year - that's how much the NFL values guards, IF the right man is there. This year, the best guard (a desperate need of the Giants) is UCLA's Su'a Filo, who will go in the 1st round, but not that high. That's why I recommended a trade down to the middle of the draft. If he's gone, Stanford's Yankey would be good.

Actually, Zack Martin is the best OG. I mean people say he can be a Pro-Bowl OG

the ONLY knocks on Donald.. are 1-2 inches in height and 15 lbs spread across his entire frame..

In comment 11618946 Blue Blood said:

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the ONLY knocks on Donald.. are 1-2 inches in height and 15 lbs spread across his entire frame..

I'm glad. If not for those "flaws", he'd be the first non-QB taken, probably just before Clowney.

In comment 11618946 Blue Blood said:

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the ONLY knocks on Donald.. are 1-2 inches in height and 15 lbs spread across his entire frame..

Why do someone need to come up with "knocks" on Donald in order to support not picking him?

Is it at all possible that there are impactful, talented players at other positions not named Aaron Donald that could be available at #12?

Martin, then ….

If he's THAT good, then you have the perfect storm - top of the draft player in a position of desperate need.

I think the last time that happened for the Giants - was '98. Ernie took the BPA (in his mind) over Alan Faneca (when the Giants needed a guard desperately).

over their fave Tiger Beat fold out, Aaron Donald.

Can we get a quota on the amount of threads we get a minute/hour/day for this guy?

In comment 11619022 Jimmy Googs said:

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Is it at all possible that there are impactful, talented players at other positions not named Aaron Donald that could be available at #12?

Sure. But why would you want to settle for a lesser player?

is better than Su'a-Filo at OG. S-A is a fantastic OG, and Martin has yet to prove that he can play the position. I believe he'll be a very good player at any of the 5 positions on the line, but S-A has already proven to be a special OG. If I were drafting purely for the OG position I'd take him in a heartbeat.

As for Donald, I'm actually worried that the Cowboys are going to trade up in front of us to nab him, and that he's gonna destroy us for years to come. I'm praying that the Boys don't land him, because even with an improved interior OL Eli could be running for his life with Donald playing against us.

In comment 11619059 yatqb said:

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... As for Donald, I'm actually worried that the Cowboys are going to trade up in front of us to nab him, and that he's gonna destroy us for years to come.

Cowboys might but I can also see da Bears jumping in front too.

Top notch stuff, spirited respectful debate, the board at its best. Thank you.

You need to watch the Donald highlight tape that was posted above....if you can find tapes of other players that shows the type of dominance that Donald showed in that highlight tape let us know??

it's a combination of the tape...the combine results...and Donald's play at the Senior bowl is what makes him a potential special player....

In comment 11619063 mrvax said:

Quote:

In comment 11619059 yatqb said: Quote: ... As for Donald, I'm actually worried that the Cowboys are going to trade up in front of us to nab him, and that he's gonna destroy us for years to come. Cowboys might but I can also see da Bears jumping in front too.

Bears or Cowboys could trade up. But you haven't heard a peep frim the Gmen on Donald yet. Doeant mean that they dont have better intel than we the fans do but if rhe Giants are interested they are keeping it close to the vest.

Do you do another one spot trade up with the Titans like we did a few years back? Lol. It cost us a fourth for Shockey. Could Detroit move back and take Dennard? Alot of fascinating scenarios.

Gotta hope Barr , 1 of the Cbs , and hopefully at least 2 Qbs go. Add in 2OTs plus Mack, Watkins, Clowney, Evans, Lewan. I think Barr goes as DEs are a craze and he racked up sacks from almost day 1 even while learning a new position

]

Bears or Cowboys could trade up. But you haven't heard a peep frim the Gmen on Donald yet. Doeant mean that they dont have better intel than we the fans do but if rhe Giants are interested they are keeping it close to the vest.

Do you do another one spot trade up with the Titans like we did a few years back? Lol. It cost us a fourth for Shockey. Could Detroit move back and take Dennard? Alot of fascinating scenarios.

Gotta hope Barr , 1 of the Cbs , and hopefully at least 2 Qbs go. Add in 2OTs plus Mack, Watkins, Clowney, Evans, Lewan. I think Barr goes as DEs are a craze and he racked up sacks from almost day 1 even while learning a new position





...
As for Donald, I'm actually worried that the Cowboys are going to trade up in front of us to nab him, and that he's gonna destroy us for years to come.

In comment 11619063 mrvax said:

Quote:

In comment 11619059 yatqb said: Quote: ... As for Donald, I'm actually worried that the Cowboys are going to trade up in front of us to nab him, and that he's gonna destroy us for years to come. Cowboys might but I can also see da Bears jumping in front too.

Bears or Cowboys could trade up. But you haven't heard a peep frim the Gmen on Donald yet. Doeant mean that they dont have better intel than we the fans do but if rhe Giants are interested they are keeping it close to the vest.

Do you do another one spot trade up with the Titans like we did a few years back? Lol. It cost us a fourth for Shockey. Could Detroit move back and take Dennard? Alot of fascinating scenarios.

Gotta hope Barr , 1 of the Cbs , and hopefully at least 2 Qbs go. Add in 2OTs plus Mack, Watkins, Clowney, Evans, Lewan. I think Barr goes as DEs are a craze and he racked up sacks from almost day 1 even while learning a new position

In comment 11619063 mrvax said:

Quote:

In comment 11619059 yatqb said: Quote: ... As for Donald, I'm actually worried that the Cowboys are going to trade up in front of us to nab him, and that he's gonna destroy us for years to come. Cowboys might but I can also see da Bears jumping in front too.

Bears or Cowboys could trade up. But you haven't heard a peep frim the Gmen on Donald yet. Doeant mean that they dont have better intel than we the fans do but if rhe Giants are interested they are keeping it close to the vest.

Do you do another one spot trade up with the Titans like we did a few years back? Lol. It cost us a fourth for Shockey. Could Detroit move back and take Dennard? Alot of fascinating scenarios.

Gotta hope Barr , 1 of the Cbs , and hopefully at least 2 Qbs go. Add in 2OTs plus Mack, Watkins, Clowney, Evans, Lewan. I think Barr goes as DEs are a craze and he racked up sacks from almost day 1 even while learning a new position

In comment 11619063 mrvax said:

Quote:

In comment 11619059 yatqb said: Quote: ... As for Donald, I'm actually worried that the Cowboys are going to trade up in front of us to nab him, and that he's gonna destroy us for years to come. Cowboys might but I can also see da Bears jumping in front too.

Bears or Cowboys could trade up. But you haven't heard a peep frim the Gmen on Donald yet. Doeant mean that they dont have better intel than we the fans do but if rhe Giants are interested they are keeping it close to the vest.

Do you do another one spot trade up with the Titans like we did a few years back? Lol. It cost us a fourth for Shockey. Could Detroit move back and take Dennard? Alot of fascinating scenarios.

Gotta hope Barr , 1 of the Cbs , and hopefully at least 2 Qbs go. Add in 2OTs plus Mack, Watkins, Clowney, Evans, Lewan. I think Barr goes as DEs are a craze and he racked up sacks from almost day 1 even while learning a new position

In comment 11619063 mrvax said:

Quote:

In comment 11619059 yatqb said: Quote: ... As for Donald, I'm actually worried that the Cowboys are going to trade up in front of us to nab him, and that he's gonna destroy us for years to come. Cowboys might but I can also see da Bears jumping in front too.

Bears or Cowboys could trade up. But you haven't heard a peep frim the Gmen on Donald yet. Doeant mean that they dont have better intel than we the fans do but if rhe Giants are interested they are keeping it close to the vest.

Do you do another one spot trade up with the Titans like we did a few years back? Lol. It cost us a fourth for Shockey. Could Detroit move back and take Dennard? Alot of fascinating scenarios.

Gotta hope Barr , 1 of the Cbs , and hopefully at least 2 Qbs go. Add in 2OTs plus Mack, Watkins, Clowney, Evans, Lewan. I think Barr goes as DEs are a craze and he racked up sacks from almost day 1 even while learning a new position

In comment 11619063 mrvax said:

Quote:

In comment 11619059 yatqb said: Quote: ... As for Donald, I'm actually worried that the Cowboys are going to trade up in front of us to nab him, and that he's gonna destroy us for years to come. Cowboys might but I can also see da Bears jumping in front too.

Bears or Cowboys could trade up. But you haven't heard a peep frim the Gmen on Donald yet. Doeant mean that they dont have better intel than we the fans do but if rhe Giants are interested they are keeping it close to the vest.

Do you do another one spot trade up with the Titans like we did a few years back? Lol. It cost us a fourth for Shockey. Could Detroit move back and take Dennard? Alot of fascinating scenarios.

Gotta hope Barr , 1 of the Cbs , and hopefully at least 2 Qbs go. Add in 2OTs plus Mack, Watkins, Clowney, Evans, Lewan. I think Barr goes as DEs are a craze and he racked up sacks from almost day 1 even while learning a new position

In comment 11619063 mrvax said:

Quote:

In comment 11619059 yatqb said: Quote: ... As for Donald, I'm actually worried that the Cowboys are going to trade up in front of us to nab him, and that he's gonna destroy us for years to come. Cowboys might but I can also see da Bears jumping in front too.

Bears or Cowboys could trade up. But you haven't heard a peep frim the Gmen on Donald yet. Doeant mean that they dont have better intel than we the fans do but if rhe Giants are interested they are keeping it close to the vest.

Do you do another one spot trade up with the Titans like we did a few years back? Lol. It cost us a fourth for Shockey. Could Detroit move back and take Dennard? Alot of fascinating scenarios.

Gotta hope Barr , 1 of the Cbs , and hopefully at least 2 Qbs go. Add in 2OTs plus Mack, Watkins, Clowney, Evans, Lewan. I think Barr goes as DEs are a craze and he racked up sacks from almost day 1 even while learning a new position

Guys you're being ridiculously stoopid. You don't pick positions, but rather players. Donald looks great, now got to check out Martin's game....

That was whack. ...

Blue you pick BPA. Donald will likely be glaring BPA.

In comment 11619085 geelabee said:

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You need to watch the Donald highlight tape that was posted above....if you can find tapes of other players that shows the type of dominance that Donald showed in that highlight tape let us know?? it's a combination of the tape...the combine results...and Donald's play at the Senior bowl is what makes him a potential special player....

I have seen the tapes and Donald looks really good, no question about it. And if he is the pick I am good with it.

Right up until the point the Offense comes back on the field and goes nowhere...

I agree. But hey, at least we would have AD, right?

We won't do anything else in the draft to upgrade our offense? We won't draft a WR, or a TE, or one or two OL? What do you expect the Giants to do after the 1st round is over, sit out the rest of the draft?

Of all the arguments against drafting Donald, this is the one that baffles me the most.

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Not many other positions require you to hold and press against 600+lbs of man...I am very excited

record of Ross, do you expect to hit on any of them? Say we do draft offensive positions, are we going to hit on them? Based on the draft history since Ross arrived our drafts have gone down hill. We could easily have a Barden, Beckum draft.

People act like it's shopping for clothes. I am going to pick up an Aaron Donald in the first, loop back around draft a good OL, then come get myself a WR, followed by a great TE and bada bing bada boom, SB!

Judging our drafts since Ross came aboard, we have swing and missed a lot in the draft. Not only that we have a big time sense of urgency to make this a 1 year offensive project not a 2 or 3.

So, that one offensive player drafted in the 1st round is going to make all the difference? We might as well bag the rest of the draft?

I have a feeling that Reese and others will be looking over Ross's shoulder this time.

In comment 11619495 Klaatu said:

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So, that one offensive player drafted in the 1st round is going to make all the difference? We might as well bag the rest of the draft?

It could considering out 1st rounders do well for us. They do get hurt, but hopefully they help out. Do you not see the sense of urgency behind this year? Why not fire TC and trade eli? After all both have short term contracts. TC is on a 2 year deal, but that's because we don't let coaches go into a lame duck year. Eli has 2 years left.

Can we actually draft offensive players on a side which you know is broken? You want a damn DT?

Based on what? The fool got promoted! Meanwhile our drafts have gone hill. We are going to draft the way we are going to draft, but that doesn't change the fact we have 1 year and 1 year and 1 year only. This isn't a 2-3 year rebuild.

In comment 11619495 Klaatu said:

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So, that one offensive player drafted in the 1st round is going to make all the difference? We might as well bag the rest of the draft?

Can't I say the exact same thing about Donald?

are hard to find. I think the Giants have been looking for the pass rushing DT for a while (Alford, Marvin Austin, etc).

Tough not to take Donald if he's there at #12 even if a Lewan is there. No way I want a TE or WR.