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How would you personally make pick #12?

mrvax : 4/14/2014 1:49 pm
Obviously, the Giants have more needs on offense than defense this year. I think we all can agree on that. Now you have to make pick #12.

I'm not asking to name a player. I want to know your drafting philosophy for our first round pick #12.

Are you in the "pure BPA" camp

or

are you in the "offense comes first" and the #12 guy must be on offense?

------------------------------------------------

IMO, I believe that with the 1st pick, I go BPA regardless of whether or not the player is offense or defense.
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M makes a compelling argument  
santacruzom : 4/14/2014 2:33 pm : link
But I personally don't think I'd elevate a WR or TE over a much higher-rated first round player who's also available. Like I said before, I think it would be an arrogant assessment of our free agency to feel we're just one position away from no longer being what we've been the past two years.
Modified BPA  
steve in 'skins territory : 4/14/2014 2:35 pm : link
I agree with Lionhart that you look at the tiers and amongst the highest tier available you pick a position of need. Basically its not quite the BPA but a modified one. One additional wrinkle would be if several of the highest ranked players are available and one is in a position of need where there are few quality players and an equal one is in a position of need with a lot of talented draft choices (e.g. OLine, WR) than I would wait until a later round to pick a player at the more available position.
I would pick  
SwirlingEddie : 4/14/2014 2:39 pm : link
the same way I understand the team to do it, based on various articles and interviews. Specifically:

1) Group draft prospects into tiers based on comparable grades (physical, mental, health, positional impact)

2) Evaluate team needs (roster, strategy, contracts)

3) Once on the clock, review the players in the highest remaining tier and select one based on -

a) Prefer the equivalent player at the position of higher need

b) All else being equal, choose the player at the position of need less likely to be available in quality at a later round

c) A player in the highest remaining tier is to be preferred over a lower tier player at a position of greater need. Trust your grades!
ifs.  
shabu : 4/14/2014 2:45 pm : link
If there is a very good Tackle avail at 12 take him.
else
Consider Ebron or Donald if either are there.
It will vary from year to year as Its a measure  
GmenDynasty : 4/14/2014 2:49 pm : link
Of a lot of variables.

For this year for instance, we can STILL get some very good offensive players round 2-4 if we go BPA round 1 at a non OL or non offensive position.

In my guesstimate if Donald is still there at 12 he wont be slight BPA Donald will be glaring BPA by a considerable margin. If the Giants board matches my value on him then you can't ignore that kind of grade to go for strict need especially since the likelihood of a strong OL still being available at 43 is very high.

Other years the 'need differential' is higher than the 'value differential' and you need to go for the near BPA pick at the higher need position vs strict BPA at a lesser need position.
When all else fails, go with the highest  
Jimmy Googs : 4/14/2014 2:49 pm : link
Wonderlic score...
Playmaker in the first, OL thereafter  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/14/2014 2:50 pm : link
put your scouting department to work in the second.

I am not a believer that it's a MUST to burn the first rounder on a lineman.

We saw in 2012 and 2013 that Eli needs more than Victor Cruz. The offense doesn't work without a #1 receiver. All they have is Cruz.
whose on the board  
Blue Blood : 4/14/2014 2:52 pm : link
will ultimately determine who you pick.. no matter what your philosophy might be..
BPA - however with 1 big caveat  
Eric on Li : 4/14/2014 2:53 pm : link
You absolutely must weight position importance. Pass rushers, QB's, LT's, and gamebreaking WR's are simply more important in the modern NFL - almost regardless of scheme.

Also obviously if you think a player will be among the elites at his position - safety, DT, LB, TE, etc.

With all that said my top targets for the #12 pick in no specific order would be Donald (pass rusher), Barr (pass rusher), Lewan (LT), Ebron (potential to be a top receiving TE).
Identify thinest positions talent-wise...  
SB : 4/14/2014 2:55 pm : link
...rank those positions based on importance to the offense or defense, and then pick BPA for the the top ranked positions.

So, for example, both DT and LB are somewhat thin. DT is more important in our defense, so even though but DT has more depth than LB, DTs would rank higher.

Similarly on offense, both WR and OG are pretty thin, but WR is more important PLUS a WR like Evans is a better player than any guard we could get at 12.

Not really a hard and fast formula, more like a guideline. Based on this reasoning last year I wanted Xavier Rhodes instead of Pugh because I felt CB was a need and Rhodes was a better player Pugh. So what the hell do I know.
i really don't get  
M in CT : 4/14/2014 3:00 pm : link
all the clamor to draft a tackle. i realize there are some blue chippers in this draft, but consider:

1. we already have a starting LT in Beatty. true, Beatty played like shit last year, but also true, he has shown he can play well in the past and our entire OL broke down last year. he was a problem, but he wasn't THE problem. i expect him to improve substantially and his contract is fairly team-friendly for a good LT. so if he returns to form, we're in great shape cap-wise.

2. we already have a starting RT in Pugh who, oh by the way, was pretty much the best rookie OL in the league last year, despite being the fifth OL drafted. i don't see us messing with that. i think Pugh stays right where he is.

3. we already shored up the OL with Schwartz, we're getting Snee back, and we also got Walton. that's a pretty big FA investment in one area of the team. that, to me, makes it less likely that we use our premium pick on the same area of the team.

4. the so-called blue chip OTs from last year's draft (Eric Fisher, Luke Joeckel, Lane Johnson and DJ Fluker) all had their struggles last year. none of them were as good as Pugh. it's a very hard position to nail in the draft.
Pure BPA (QB aside). If a top-rated QB is there at 12, you field  
Anakim : 4/14/2014 3:01 pm : link
phone calls. My first choice is to trade out of 12
I believe we need  
old man : 4/14/2014 3:03 pm : link
a young OL, someone with some nasty, to bring young legs to this OL and set up for the next few years(hopefully longer)with Pugh and X.
My dilemma is it's a LT I prefer, and its Lewan,but Beatty is an X factor within himself. He likely comes back ok as a player but that might be all. He complicates my plan more because several, more technique knowledgeable BBIers ,say he can't slide to a OG.
As a result, if all that be true, then a versatile guy mentioned most on the blog, Zack Martin, who could play OG and cover for Snee if he faulters, for WB if he faulters, or stay at LG if no one faulters.I know they have GS penciled in for LG, but I feel Snee just will not be able to handle the grind, possibly even of camp. Whatever the scenario, a versatile OL like ZM, along with one in both GS, and JP if need be, would provide for a lot of combinations, especially since the team is a little injury prone in recent history.
That all is why I go OL at 12; young legs, versatility, best 5 to protect Eli.
Camp will be so brutal for starting OL competition that the regular season will be a relief for the starters.

An aside: Jags and Browns still have $$$; think one might take WB and his contract off our hands for a 3rd?
Really like Duke & SwirlingEddie's posts  
mrvax : 4/14/2014 3:05 pm : link
If my highest tier contained a defensive player, I'd pick him.
If more than 1 player was in my highest tier, I'd factor in need.

It seems like the Giants do it this way also. If you look at Ross/Pugh, you might think the Giants picked from need. Then you see Kiwi/JPP and you think BPA.

torn here  
Bleedin Blue : 4/14/2014 3:13 pm : link
I want to say go OL or WR in the first, then get whatever you didn't get in the first then OL, DT and TE. Someone else posted this team is ELI, I agree PROTECT him and get him a WR and TE.
I wouldn't reach...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/14/2014 3:16 pm : link
I'd look at the talent available and the tier they are in. I'd factor in whether the roster is set up for them to get any significant time soon (ruling out quarterback position) and I'd look at the next tier to see how many similar players are available at that position.

Ideally I'd be able to move back a few spots, pick up someone in a position of need, and get an extra pick. I'd really like that.

If moving isn't really an option then it is definitely the player that stands out the most (either the highest graded player in their tier or the position with the highest drop off in talent likely to be available in the next round), as long as they play a position that can get them snaps/play time soon.
I'd Zack Martin at 12  
Optimus-NY : 4/14/2014 3:26 pm : link
No hesitation.
trading back  
M in CT : 4/14/2014 3:36 pm : link
shouldn't be a strategy point going in to the draft. way too many variables in play to plan on trading back.

trading back is something that i would consider in the moment, if the right deal comes to me when i'm on the clock. but i'm not planning on trading back because that would take my eye off the ball for pick #12.
Martin or Lewan, unless one of the two higher rated T's drop  
PatersonPlank : 4/14/2014 3:39 pm : link
Beatty can become the backup to both Pugh and the new T, or insurance if the new guy is slower to develop. The OL was the issue of most of our problems last year, I think people have short memories. We couldn't run or protect long enough to pass. Without this our offense will not move again.

Lewan/Martin-Schwarz-Walton-Snee-Pugh or,
Pugh-Schwartz-Walton-Snee-Lewan/Martin
I'd stick with my tiers...  
Torrag : 4/14/2014 3:51 pm : link
You set up the board and whoever you draft better come from the highest remaining talent grouping. If you can address a need that's great but I'm not leaving better talent on the board just to draft say an OL.
Don't need player names here  
mrvax : 4/14/2014 3:55 pm : link
Just asking if you get your best rated player out there or insist on getting a position(s).
Beatty's cap hit is $7.4 M this year  
M in CT : 4/14/2014 3:56 pm : link
and you think the team wants him to be a backup, counting that much against the cap? no way, dude. that's not how you field a team in the salary cap era. way too early to give up on Beatty as a starter. you don't cut bait after one bad season.
I want a potential hall of famer at #12.  
ktinsc : 4/14/2014 4:04 pm : link
I don't care where he plays other than qb. I believe the Giants already have a hall of fame caliber guy at qb.

They had a pretty solid group of linebackers when they drafted LT.
If I were making the pick that means  
nicky43 : 4/14/2014 4:32 pm : link
I'd have TC in the room with me and so I'd ask him who he wants and go with whatever he says.

But if the pick were absolutely left up to me I'd pick who I had on the board as the Best OL guy available. Jerry will get hung if he doesn't fix the OL this draft.
I would pick a safety  
Semipro Lineman : 4/14/2014 4:38 pm : link
just to watch the meltdown
RE: Beatty's cap hit is $7.4 M this year  
Jimmy Googs : 4/14/2014 5:19 pm : link
In comment 11620058 M in CT said:
Quote:
and you think the team wants him to be a backup, counting that much against the cap? no way, dude. that's not how you field a team in the salary cap era. way too early to give up on Beatty as a starter. you don't cut bait after one bad season.


I preface this with the statement "I am not suggesting cut bait on Beatty"...

But what if the scenario when our pick is up that the BPA and/or top guy on the Reese draft board is a LT. Why by-pass this player who could either replace a struggling or potentially not-ready Beatty in 2014? Its not like you don't give Beatty a chance to make it, but then you hedge that bet. And if Beatty does make it, then you hopefully find a place for this quality player on the line or worst case (which hurts) is a deeper bench.
RE: i really don't get  
shabu : 4/14/2014 5:24 pm : link
In comment 11619940 M in CT said:
Quote:
all the clamor to draft a tackle. i realize there are some blue chippers in this draft, but consider:

1. we already have a starting LT in Beatty. true, Beatty played like shit last year, but also true, he has shown he can play well in the past and our entire OL broke down last year. he was a problem, but he wasn't THE problem. i expect him to improve substantially and his contract is fairly team-friendly for a good LT. so if he returns to form, we're in great shape cap-wise.

2. we already have a starting RT in Pugh who, oh by the way, was pretty much the best rookie OL in the league last year, despite being the fifth OL drafted. i don't see us messing with that. i think Pugh stays right where he is.

3. we already shored up the OL with Schwartz, we're getting Snee back, and we also got Walton. that's a pretty big FA investment in one area of the team. that, to me, makes it less likely that we use our premium pick on the same area of the team.

4. the so-called blue chip OTs from last year's draft (Eric Fisher, Luke Joeckel, Lane Johnson and DJ Fluker) all had their struggles last year. none of them were as good as Pugh. it's a very hard position to nail in the draft.


Because Pugh can play anywhere and if they get another like that, it could be one hell of a solid Oline, with/without Beatty at max potential.
Trade up for Watkins  
Neverend : 4/14/2014 5:29 pm : link
or just take aaron donald
I think we should trade up  
Mike in Jersey : 4/14/2014 5:32 pm : link
It now seems like the guys that would make the biggest impact on the team for the 2014 season (Sammy Watkins, Mike Evans, Eric Ebron) are all going to be gone before 12. The likely scenario is that if we sit at 12, we will end up taking one of Lewan, Martin, Donald, none of which are likely to be big contributors in year 1 because there are guys already in place that would start ahead of them.

Majority of the major holes have been addressed through free agency. The OL looks to be improved, our secondary looks to be one of the top 10 in the league, and the linebacking corps looks to be much better than it has been in the past. The biggest, most glaring holes are a #1 receiver that can take attention away from Cruz, and a tight end. Being that we spent money the way we did in free agency and plugged most of the holes the roster had at the end of the season, I think we can take a quality over quantity approach to the draft.
I understand Beatty has a lot of moneh tied up  
PatersonPlank : 4/14/2014 5:33 pm : link
However is that a reason to play an inferior player? The goal is to put the best on the field and win, not put the highest paid on the field. Beatty has never, ever, been anything more than average at his best. Don't be mad at me, be mad at the Giants for overpaying him. If we can get another tackle, and have our "bookends" for the next 5 years, then I say do it. We would then have good depth on the OL with Beatty.
Last years line was the worst I've ever seen  
JoeCabbie : 4/14/2014 6:09 pm : link
If my top tier has an olineman, I grab him. after that, te, wr, rb, dl and lb in no particular order.
Scariest words ever written on BBI...  
bob in tx : 4/14/2014 6:15 pm : link
" If the Giants' board matches my value on him...".
BPA at a position of need,  
yatqb : 4/14/2014 6:15 pm : link
and if there's one guy from a higher tier who doesn't play at a position of need try hard to trade down.

Now, if you're after a particular player (e.g., Donald) and you get information that another team is seeking to trade up to take him before your pick I'd carefully consider whether I'd prefer to trade up myself, or alternately stay where we are because we knoww that one of the other guys we are high on will have to fall to us in those circumstances.
Trade down to around 20 and pick up an extra 2nd rounder  
chris r : 4/14/2014 6:26 pm : link
.
Tough because of the new coordinator  
mattlawson : 4/14/2014 7:04 pm : link
Hard to know what the offense is going to look like. What it's strengths and weaknesses are. I do know we need a game changing WR and TE. The OL moves already made may be enough to win.

We just don't know though
RE: i really don't get  
GmenDynasty : 4/14/2014 7:09 pm : link
In comment 11619940 M in CT said:
Quote:
all the clamor to draft a tackle. i realize there are some blue chippers in this draft, but consider:

1. we already have a starting LT in Beatty. true, Beatty played like shit last year, but also true, he has shown he can play well in the past and our entire OL broke down last year. he was a problem, but he wasn't THE problem. i expect him to improve substantially and his contract is fairly team-friendly for a good LT. so if he returns to form, we're in great shape cap-wise.

2. we already have a starting RT in Pugh who, oh by the way, was pretty much the best rookie OL in the league last year, despite being the fifth OL drafted. i don't see us messing with that. i think Pugh stays right where he is.

3. we already shored up the OL with Schwartz, we're getting Snee back, and we also got Walton. that's a pretty big FA investment in one area of the team. that, to me, makes it less likely that we use our premium pick on the same area of the team.

4. the so-called blue chip OTs from last year's draft (Eric Fisher, Luke Joeckel, Lane Johnson and DJ Fluker) all had their struggles last year. none of them were as good as Pugh. it's a very hard position to nail in the draft.


The Giants don't give up on players quickly. Beatty had a bad year but practically the whole offense did in our old system. If Beatty returns to form this OL is pretty set save for Snee's spot (who is still a shaky proposition at best). We can get that OG or versatile OL to fill that spot at 43.

With that said, you almost always go for a guy if he is glaring BPA over everyone else (unless you are absolutely stocked at that position like CB). Donald , if the draft falls like many are predicting will be glaring BPA over everyone else IMO. Take him and have a dominant pass rushing DT for the next decade to play along side a totally young and talented line of JPP,DaMonster and Hankins.
you  
blue42 : 4/14/2014 7:29 pm : link
take Zach Martin and have a Pro Bowl guard next year.
Then go fishing in the later rounds.
that will give you an OL that will allow your qb to function like he used to.
Trade down, collect chips  
mikeygiants : 4/14/2014 8:20 pm : link
and then start filling the coffers. This draft is deep!
Isn't it obvious  
Spock : 4/14/2014 8:31 pm : link
We need a qb. Eli is declining.
simple...  
Amtoft : 4/14/2014 8:33 pm : link
build a draft board of 12 players that fit your team and needs... Then when your pick comes take the highest rated player you have on your list.
For me personally it would come down to four players  
Jay on the Island : 4/14/2014 8:51 pm : link
Aaron Donald, Taylor Lewan, Zach Martin, and Marqise Lee.
I would ...  
Manny in CA : 4/14/2014 11:52 pm : link
"Personally" be on the phone with every team 13 through 32, setting up the very best trade-down scenario available.

The Giants presently, are NOT one player away from approaching their former glory - they have several but not an overwhelming number holes. They still have some very good players at key positions.

In my view, this is not a very rich at top type draft (as are most drafts), but rather a very deep draft (as most aren't).

I think that the team, given it's advantageous drafting positions across the board, can pick up some very solid players by first trading down then parlaying several of the remaining lower picks to move up to come way from this draft with as many as three #2s and maybe a couple of #3s.

Amtoft that wouldn't do at all,  
BlueLou : 4/15/2014 1:05 am : link
because you'd have on idea how to evaluate trade down requests. You've got to build tiers of players by overall talent and desirability.
BTW in general I wouldn't do much differently  
BlueLou : 4/15/2014 1:11 am : link
Than what JR does now. He hasn't blown a 1st round pick since Ross, and Ross wasn't a total bust.


Except maybe consult Zoltan's crystal ball about future injuries.
JR should have drafted Bowe not Ross  
Torrag : 4/15/2014 1:25 am : link
I know why he did it but it was still a mistake.
I think they'd have 3-4 guys targeted, something like  
Jim in Forest Hills : 4/15/2014 4:46 am : link
and have a 'score' or grade on them. They will have their preference and go with the highest preference on a similar grade scale.

Ebron - 77
Gilbert - 76
Barr - 77
Donald - 75
has to be OL  
Victor in CT : 4/15/2014 8:20 am : link
that is still the biggest problem area
pick @ 12  
GNTS-1 : 4/15/2014 9:14 am : link
Im goin o-line,wr,te...
How would I personally make pick #12?  
pjcas18 : 4/15/2014 9:16 am : link
I would walk up to the podium and say "with the 12th pick of the 2014 national football league draft, the New York Giants select..." and I would say the name of the person on the card.

it's easy.
Unless our line can be better  
snumber6 : 4/15/2014 9:18 am : link
I'd go orthopedic surgeon or punter depending on how bad they are ...
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