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| “There's been no deterioration of his arm strength, there's been no lack of preparation and effort,” Kevin Gilbride said during an appearance on Pro Football Talk. “I think he's going to be fine as soon as they solidify the offensive line. They certainly made a move to do that by bringing in three interior offensive linemen and as soon as they get somebody that's going to be productive for them as an outside receiver -- Victor Cruz is terrific, but they need somebody that when they go match up, bump and run [and] go win for them.” So, about the contention that some folks in the Giants front office feel Manning may never regain the form that helped the organization to two Super Bowls? “I think that's, to be honest with you, ludicrous,” Gilbride continued. “I think he's going to be fine. ... He's going to throw the ball to the right person and he's going to throw it accurately.” |
- 95% of the NFL world.
-- BBI
I had to wait 30 second to even been able to post that. ^^^^
Sometimes the easiest explanations are the most fundamentally sound ones.
KGs offense needed an OL that could keep the QB upright, and receivers that were threats, run good routes, and catch the ball.
After game 8 of 2012 our OL were busted up circus dogs, even worse in '13; and our #1 couldnt stay healthy and or made business decisions(BTW: who WAS the last Giants receiver that ran a precise route?).
The lack of adequate replacements on OL and WR is on JR.
Most BBIers can agree with KG on his quote, like him or not; especially given it is what we all have been saying.
JR gambled on Snee and Baas and that backfired and he did not have a backup plan. I think we all know that here on BBI.
Nice to see Gilbride providing some level headedness, though. Something BBI has, for the most part, sorely been missing.
Link - ( New Window )
To me, this says....prove it. Prove to us that if we bolster the problems around you, you will bounce back. If you do, we will extend you, but you need to prove it first. I have no other explanation as to why the Giants wouldn't have extended Eli at this point. That being said, I fully expect a bounce back because I saw last year as a perfect storm of things going wrong. I didn't see any diminished ability from Eli, just bad decision making and no time/bad WR's.
They can do it this summer, or during the season.
Its too early so say definitively that that they wont extend him.
Gilbride though? Its a combo of wrong place wrong time, and needing to switch things up a bit. I'm fine with it. Rarely is there a sole person responsible for everything, but Gilbride was the more replaceable, and gives us the opportunity to get a younger mind into the mix.
No? Then how do you know it did take place?
maybe Eli is in decline. but, man that super bowl was a lesson in how bad a good QB can look when given no time
Britt, almost all of that thread was people talking about what a bullshit article that was, no?
No? Then how do you know it did take place?
BS, Coughlin and Mara already noted how much input the coaching staff on roster decision. Coughlin used EA as a reference point.
Once again 09 draft was coaches choice.
Barden - Sullivan
Sintim - Coughlin and Sheridan
Beckum - KG & Pope
Beatty - KG & Coughlin
Coughlin is the only coach left from list. You think Mara is not aware.
That's the question you didn't answer.
Solid strategy to postulate a theory to fit your bias, then try to sell it as if you know something.
Have you met Thomas?
That's the question you didn't answer.
Solid strategy to postulate a theory to fit your bias, then try to sell it as if you know something.
Have you met Thomas?
You're right, Gilbride was hiding in the corner as Reese ran through the complex screaming who he was taking. Now that he is free he has found his voice.
That might be charitable.
10% Eli - forced too many balls and repeatedly not on same page with WRs
40 % OL - Below average before injuries. Diehl was retiring anyway, if giants had a good season and snee didn't get hurt he would be retired right now IMO. couldn't run block for the past few years.
10% RB - Couldn't block, catch or hold on to the ball, forget about running.
10% WRs - Not on the same page all year with eli. Quit on a lot of balls, carless mental mistakes and lack of separation
10% Gilbride - Other teams neutralized our pass rush but doing quick drops and getting rid of the ball in 2 seconds. with the O line and Running game struggling, gilbride only played conservative against the vikings by checking down. Not enough slant patterns and pick plays to get people open. almost forgot to mention he couldn't fix the redzone struggle for the last 3 years.
20% injuries - starting before the season with nicks not working with eli due to be overly cautious with his injuries, O line were completely destroyed and never had a consistant combo. David wilson was hurt before he could even show anything. Wrs were banged up all seaosn. Andre brown was hurt in preseason, we could of used him early on.
This is all my opinion of course from what i saw last year. Correct me if im wrong on anything above. There is now way anyone can say with a straight face that if eli had on average 4 seconds to throw ( like brady) that he can't complete more passes, throw more TD, Yards, and less picks. Eli, didn't forget how to play football. Also, Eli always does this, he plays his best when everyone thinks he is done. I do think the team still needs to add a lot on offense to help him out.
ANGPASS : 2:30 pm : link : reply
And they said
Quote:
I saw NFL AM
ANGPASS : 2:30 pm : link : reply
And they said
Keep reading chooch. they said .... Eli didn't get protected at all.
10% Gilbride - Other teams neutralized our pass rush but doing quick drops and getting rid of the ball in 2 seconds. w
I've made this point in the past but you gave me a perfect opportunity to reinforce it.
Other teams neutralize our OUTSIDE pass rush by going to the the three step game. If the rush is coming from the A gaps, the three step game is completely ineffective. That's one of the reasons we had such a difficult time adjusting. We were giving up ground in the middle and that makes it impossible-to-difficult to run the three step passes that gets the ball out so quickly.
I'm not absolving KG, but the best option for countering pressure was not available to him. We were too weak in the middle to run the quick hitters.
So now he's saying what? That he was completely wrong about Randle last year? Or just saying stuff about Randle to motivate Nicks?
Don't care for that aspect of Gilbrides current spiel at all; and I was a big Gilbride fan. Best OC this team had in years, maybe ever.
What I like most about RR on that tape is he hands catches most often, and he's got very sneaky speed. He's not the quickest guy (although quick enough) but once he gets going he just blows by a few safeties giving over the top help.
Not Giantscentral, and part 1 only... - ( New Window )
I thought until game 5 or 6 was the first time I remember seeing our offense change more. That's the 3 step drop. Prior to that, we kept trying to run our offense and Eli took a beating.
But what other options could have been done mid season like that? If the goal is to save Eli from getting the shit kicked out of him, then try running screens. It may not work, but maybe you catch DL players being overly aggressive. X or Z hot it's quick set and throw, so maybe it works maybe it doesn't but at least Eli isn't getting knocked around.
What other things could you do when the ship is sinking like that? When Plax shot himself, we tried putting Hixon at X, and that didn't work out. When everything does south like that mid season, how many options are left?
Have you ever coached a team like that?
The screen game, 3 step game and sprint out series are the three main counters to inside pressure. Sprint we use very rarely because Eli is not particularly agile.
You saw the results of the screens we tried. You're supposed to protect for a full beat before releasing the DL and we were releasing on the snap. Just pathetic.
The three step game worked pretty well for 1 or 2 games until defenses adjusted and started banging the middle.
Watch the last three games and count how many double A gap blitzes you see. It's a wonder the kid is alive.
Yes, Eli tried to make things happen under duress and he paid the price. He also simply sucked at times, but there is nothing wrong with his arm strength, so why would he be in decline?
Preposterous, imv
I thought until game 5 or 6 was the first time I remember seeing our offense change more. That's the 3 step drop. Prior to that, we kept trying to run our offense and Eli took a beating.
I just went to point out that the offense scored 31 points in the season opener against Dallas and then followed that up with 23 points against a strong denver defense. I believe it was the third and fourth game of the year where the wheels fell off as they put up a combined 7 points in the two games. The offense combined for over 800 yards in the first two games and then only managed 450 combined in the next two.
I don't think it is fair to say that wholesale adjustments should have been made earlier based on the success of the first two games.
In regards to Eli, earlier in his career we ran a lot of sprint out, naked, and had him move. I remember because he would roll out and hit a WR near the sideline before getting 2 feet in and getting out. We used to do that to Shockey and Boss as well early on.
I feel like as we became successful and won, we got away from the things we used to do. I don't want to say the offensive opened up, but our formations changed which we installed based on my game breakdowns, and a lot of the passing concepts did too.
Do you feel like this new OC will bring different running and passing concepts and integrate them? Starting point being he did say he will add more screens. That I like, I don't mind if we end up with a dink and dunk offense. It worked with Rivers, and they hailed him for having a very high completion percentage.
I hope we add very good offensive talent this season because I can't sit through another shit show season.
So much free agency action, so little O-Line improvement.
To back up Beatty we got a guy who was a 2nd round choice of the Saints. He played a total of eight games in 2011-12. Ended up on IR both years. In 2013 he was benched for the last four games of the season for poor play.
Perfect for Reese: chronically injured player.
To play center we got a Bronco former 3rd round pick. In 2012 he had knee surgery and missed camp. Already sounds like a Reese type of guy. In 2013 he needed a second knee surgery, missed camp, was put on the Pup list, and finally waived.
Snee is back and current Vegas odds are 4-5 that he'll be injured and walking the sidelines by week four.
Only Schwartz, everyone agrees, is a genuine upgrade at center. The Giants will be the 5th team of his career.
I think he'll be fine as long as the OL is mediocre instead of the worst thing in the entire world.
Good posts, Anish/Dorgan.
and there is nobody on the planet who is in a better position to judge Eli than Kevin Gilbride
Eli is going to make a lot of people eat their words this year.
2) We had nothing at TE.
3) Eli had to get the ball out quickly, the line simply couldn't block, especially up the "A" gap.
4) Eli was getting hit running our conventional offense.
Why not go to a true Run and Shoot (Glen Ellison version)? If you put 4 wide out there, teams are not as likely to load up on the A gap. We could still try to run the ball (The Oilers under KG had a very effective running game).
It's not like our WR's didn't already run elements of it (choice routes, etc). The offense forces quick reads and quick throws, which would helped our line to some extent. I know this goes against Tom Coughlin's philosophy, but we simply weren't able to play a physical style against defenses. With the Run and Shoot, at least you get guys out on the field (like JJ) and force mismatches (the other team has to play nickle and dime for most of the game.)
While I know less than most, my instinct is that they will choose a wide out with the 12th pick.
I think he'll be fine as long as the OL is mediocre instead of the worst thing in the entire world.
Good posts, Anish/Dorgan.
Agreed. It's frequently left out of the narrative here that's Eli's downturn started during the last half of two seasons ago.. I'm certainly not writing him off or anything like it. Nor am I forgetting that this can't all be laid at the clumsy feet of last year's O-line.
And people really need to stop saying 'But Peyton is 39! And Brady is....' It's a ridiculous over-simplifcation. Different human beings.
Brett Favre, at around 35, had two shitty years in 2005 and 2006. Potential reason for optimism - it's not unheard of for a QB to have a couple shitty years and bounce back.
Best game I ever saw a QB play under that kind of duress. Fookin' heroic.
Eli made amd makes stupid decisions at times, some borne from trying to make something, anything out of jothing, some borne out of stupidity and some borne out of key players performing far worse than their expected standards(regardless of reason)..
He's smart, still has a strong arm and should easily rebound under a "safer"offensive system..Imv
Best game I ever saw a QB play under that kind of duress. Fookin' heroic.
The OL was fucking garbage in 2011 as well - but it was our tackles that were the issue. The interior was okay. This allowed Eli to utilize his elite pocket presence and mitigate the impact of an overall bad offensive line. When the pressure started to come up the middle, Eli couldn't do shit. Any attempts at a short three-step drop oriented passing game were neutralized and ineffective because of it.
IMO, of course.
Or at least Pearl Harbor...
Especially against a pocket passer.
It depends on the offensive staff. How inclined are they to make changes? If so, how drastic? I always think this when I see things going south. I thought I noticed around games 4-6 when we finally saw adjustments to a 3 step drop and quick game passes. Why not make adjustments sooner when we knew right away our offense was sinking? So we tweaked things, but it also depends on the staff and how much they are willing to do when things sink. How much time do you have to make drastic changes?
Making drastic changes mid season is hard. You can install concepts and formations, but once you show that, as Dorgan said, teams now adjust to that. So every week you're stuck at coming up with new concepts not seen because defenses are game planning against it. Since our personnel stunk, we are basically up a creek without a paddle. Same with Hixon when Plax shot himself. We played him at X and it didn't work out well.
So it's harder to change element in your offense at a big level. On the other hand, I figured we'd have the experience in our coaching staff to do it. TC and Kevin G have been around the game forever.
It's hard to figure out what happens without being in the offensive staff meeting. Perhaps stuff went on that they talked about and came to a conclusion that they ca't do it. Maybe it wasn't suggested? It's hard to judge these things in a way.
Probably a combination of little cap room and a couple starting olinemen who were not going to see the bench no matter how awful they were on the field. They aren't going to invest heavily in backups. Could be why they have been trying to make chicken salad out of chicken s*** with all the late round OL picks and UDFAs.
I agree, I've been a huge critic of Reese over it. With that said, Boothe disappointed after being serviceable and Snee's injuries made him miss time (even though we shouldn't have been betting on Snee anyway, imo). Baas was okay when healthy, but I think Reese was betting on getting another year out of that group and couldn't. It was a bad risk to take.