Gilbride calls report that Eli is in decline 'ludicrous'

Yes, I had two teams over the years that couldn't block my grandmother if she blitzed the A gap. Very frustrating and we tried cutting splits, area blocking, zone, etc.. Most of it didn't work. We were just piss poor inside and the depth players were worse. We ran a lot of veer option those years to get the QB down the line quickly and out of the congestion.

The screen game, 3 step game and sprint out series are the three main counters to inside pressure. Sprint we use very rarely because Eli is not particularly agile.
You saw the results of the screens we tried. You're supposed to protect for a full beat before releasing the DL and we were releasing on the snap. Just pathetic.

The three step game worked pretty well for 1 or 2 games until defenses adjusted and started banging the middle.
Watch the last three games and count how many double A gap blitzes you see. It's a wonder the kid is alive.

If they had to step into the pocket as Eli does with a tissue strength interior OL for the better part of 2 years, they would have problems as well..

Yes, Eli tried to make things happen under duress and he paid the price. He also simply sucked at times, but there is nothing wrong with his arm strength, so why would he be in decline?

Preposterous, imv

In comment 11621638 AnishPatel said:

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I thought until game 5 or 6 was the first time I remember seeing our offense change more. That's the 3 step drop. Prior to that, we kept trying to run our offense and Eli took a beating.

I just went to point out that the offense scored 31 points in the season opener against Dallas and then followed that up with 23 points against a strong denver defense. I believe it was the third and fourth game of the year where the wheels fell off as they put up a combined 7 points in the two games. The offense combined for over 800 yards in the first two games and then only managed 450 combined in the next two.

I don't think it is fair to say that wholesale adjustments should have been made earlier based on the success of the first two games.

Yeah we ran spread and couldn't block anyone so we had to use a lot of X and Z hot, bubble, and tried RB screens though we had issues there too.

In regards to Eli, earlier in his career we ran a lot of sprint out, naked, and had him move. I remember because he would roll out and hit a WR near the sideline before getting 2 feet in and getting out. We used to do that to Shockey and Boss as well early on.

I feel like as we became successful and won, we got away from the things we used to do. I don't want to say the offensive opened up, but our formations changed which we installed based on my game breakdowns, and a lot of the passing concepts did too.

Do you feel like this new OC will bring different running and passing concepts and integrate them? Starting point being he did say he will add more screens. That I like, I don't mind if we end up with a dink and dunk offense. It worked with Rivers, and they hailed him for having a very high completion percentage.

I hope we add very good offensive talent this season because I can't sit through another shit show season.

John Mara: "That to me is the number one personnel priority going into the offseason, We have to improve the offensive line."

So much free agency action, so little O-Line improvement.

To back up Beatty we got a guy who was a 2nd round choice of the Saints. He played a total of eight games in 2011-12. Ended up on IR both years. In 2013 he was benched for the last four games of the season for poor play.

Perfect for Reese: chronically injured player.

To play center we got a Bronco former 3rd round pick. In 2012 he had knee surgery and missed camp. Already sounds like a Reese type of guy. In 2013 he needed a second knee surgery, missed camp, was put on the Pup list, and finally waived.

Snee is back and current Vegas odds are 4-5 that he'll be injured and walking the sidelines by week four.

Only Schwartz, everyone agrees, is a genuine upgrade at center. The Giants will be the 5th team of his career.

Eli's second half in 2012. He was terrible then - last year had so many extraneous factors that it's easy to write it off.

I think he'll be fine as long as the OL is mediocre instead of the worst thing in the entire world.

Good posts, Anish/Dorgan.

he is retired and can say whatever he wants

and there is nobody on the planet who is in a better position to judge Eli than Kevin Gilbride

Eli is going to make a lot of people eat their words this year.

1) We had no running game at all (except for one game by Jacobs).
2) We had nothing at TE.
3) Eli had to get the ball out quickly, the line simply couldn't block, especially up the "A" gap.
4) Eli was getting hit running our conventional offense.

Why not go to a true Run and Shoot (Glen Ellison version)? If you put 4 wide out there, teams are not as likely to load up on the A gap. We could still try to run the ball (The Oilers under KG had a very effective running game).

It's not like our WR's didn't already run elements of it (choice routes, etc). The offense forces quick reads and quick throws, which would helped our line to some extent. I know this goes against Tom Coughlin's philosophy, but we simply weren't able to play a physical style against defenses. With the Run and Shoot, at least you get guys out on the field (like JJ) and force mismatches (the other team has to play nickle and dime for most of the game.)

In comment 11621479 Torrag said:

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...in terms of impacting the draft... as soon as they get somebody that's going to be productive for them as an outside receiver. He was the OC for a decade. The signs pointing to an early selection at WR are everywhere.

While I know less than most, my instinct is that they will choose a wide out with the 12th pick.

In comment 11621775 BrettNYG10 said:

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Eli's second half in 2012. He was terrible then - last year had so many extraneous factors that it's easy to write it off. I think he'll be fine as long as the OL is mediocre instead of the worst thing in the entire world. Good posts, Anish/Dorgan.

Agreed. It's frequently left out of the narrative here that's Eli's downturn started during the last half of two seasons ago.. I'm certainly not writing him off or anything like it. Nor am I forgetting that this can't all be laid at the clumsy feet of last year's O-line.

And people really need to stop saying 'But Peyton is 39! And Brady is....' It's a ridiculous over-simplifcation. Different human beings.

I read an article a year or so ago that said that top-caliber QBs tend to decline at a slower pace than others - which is another reason why the Peyton/Brady comparison could potentially be flawed.

Brett Favre, at around 35, had two shitty years in 2005 and 2006. Potential reason for optimism - it's not unheard of for a QB to have a couple shitty years and bounce back.

Eli had a tissue thin interior line also the last half of 2012..The "names" might have been present but their skillset wasn't regardless of reason..

months or so are proven to be about something other than Eli. But at this point entirely removing him from the list of those possibly responsible for his play seems as premature as deciding he's not bouncing back.

The OL that played SF in the NFC championship game in 2011 looked like garbage, at least vs that 9ers D.

Best game I ever saw a QB play under that kind of duress. Fookin' heroic.

QBs can be permanently damaged (both physically and mentally) by absorbing too many hits...

game the last half of 2012 to allay the pressure on Eli? His best go-to(Nicks) was hobbling and useless..Bennett's knee was effectively shredded even though he galliantly played..

Eli made amd makes stupid decisions at times, some borne from trying to make something, anything out of jothing, some borne out of stupidity and some borne out of key players performing far worse than their expected standards(regardless of reason)..

He's smart, still has a strong arm and should easily rebound under a "safer"offensive system..Imv

Vibe, As you see from our crossed posts, I did acknowledge that Eli was not exempt from criticism

In comment 11622740 BlueLou said:

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The OL that played SF in the NFC championship game in 2011 looked like garbage, at least vs that 9ers D. Best game I ever saw a QB play under that kind of duress. Fookin' heroic.

The OL was fucking garbage in 2011 as well - but it was our tackles that were the issue. The interior was okay. This allowed Eli to utilize his elite pocket presence and mitigate the impact of an overall bad offensive line. When the pressure started to come up the middle, Eli couldn't do shit. Any attempts at a short three-step drop oriented passing game were neutralized and ineffective because of it.

IMO, of course.

As dorgan so aptly pointed out, guys coming clean up the A gap is like fookin' Hiroshima.


Or at least Pearl Harbor...



Especially against a pocket passer.

And Eli isn't mobile enough to neutralize that, as you said. Roll-outs aren't likely to be as effective with him as other QBs.

why didn't we invest in the interior line over the past several years. Basically was just Baas right?

Please give your opponent some credit. The Giants beat an incredible defense.

It depends on the offensive staff. How inclined are they to make changes? If so, how drastic? I always think this when I see things going south. I thought I noticed around games 4-6 when we finally saw adjustments to a 3 step drop and quick game passes. Why not make adjustments sooner when we knew right away our offense was sinking? So we tweaked things, but it also depends on the staff and how much they are willing to do when things sink. How much time do you have to make drastic changes?

Making drastic changes mid season is hard. You can install concepts and formations, but once you show that, as Dorgan said, teams now adjust to that. So every week you're stuck at coming up with new concepts not seen because defenses are game planning against it. Since our personnel stunk, we are basically up a creek without a paddle. Same with Hixon when Plax shot himself. We played him at X and it didn't work out well.

So it's harder to change element in your offense at a big level. On the other hand, I figured we'd have the experience in our coaching staff to do it. TC and Kevin G have been around the game forever.

It's hard to figure out what happens without being in the offensive staff meeting. Perhaps stuff went on that they talked about and came to a conclusion that they ca't do it. Maybe it wasn't suggested? It's hard to judge these things in a way.

In comment 11622801 Jimmy Googs said:

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why didn't we invest in the interior line over the past several years. Basically was just Baas right?

Probably a combination of little cap room and a couple starting olinemen who were not going to see the bench no matter how awful they were on the field. They aren't going to invest heavily in backups. Could be why they have been trying to make chicken salad out of chicken s*** with all the late round OL picks and UDFAs.

In comment 11622801 Jimmy Googs said:

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why didn't we invest in the interior line over the past several years. Basically was just Baas right?

I agree, I've been a huge critic of Reese over it. With that said, Boothe disappointed after being serviceable and Snee's injuries made him miss time (even though we shouldn't have been betting on Snee anyway, imo). Baas was okay when healthy, but I think Reese was betting on getting another year out of that group and couldn't. It was a bad risk to take.

He was expected to fix everything. Reese made the effort and whiffed big time.