What if Donald is on the board....

....if he's still there at 12 and we take Jernigan?

Always better to talk how production will translate at the next level vs. how hype will turn into potential and maybe turn into being productive if one learns to catch and block.

In comment 11621894 Emlen'sGremlins said:

Quote:

....if he's still there at 12 and we take Jernigan?

I'd be OK with that. At least they had their chance. Worse to me to see the Cows jump the Giants and take him. Or Da Bears.

I'd still follow Donald's career. Why? I need to know if I'm right or wrong about what I feel is the best defensive player to come out of the draft in the last 20 years.

If we have learned anything again from this past Super Bowl is that defense wins championships.. Donald would elevate this defense to another level if this kid is the real deal. I'm usually not one for a picking a DT in the 1st rd of the draft, but Donald seems to be a play maker in the mold of N. Suh. Anytime you get a chance at a guy like this you take that chance. Taking a TE is the rd would not make sense especially since this team doesn't really focus on the TE in their offensive schemes. If not Donald in the 1st, Taking a OT or WR would be the next wise choice at this time.

In comment 11621772 yatqb said:

Quote:

Anish, this happens every year. People get passionate about one player or another (for me it's Donald and Martin this year) and advocate strongly. Can you recall the Robert Gallery fans? Kenny Britt fans?

Yeah but it was different with Gallery because there were many sub factions. People wanted Manning, Gallery, and S. Taylor, such as myself. I thought ST was going to be a damn good player. He was getting on the road to be before he passed away.

Here it's almost like the Donald cult followers are making more noise than usual. Britt was popular because he was a good WR but also because he played at Rutgers. So that's understandable that those fans, and alumni would pop out. I do remember it was a Nicks vs Britt battle. Ironic, how both are not with their respective teams, and how they went out.

I think this year you have many factions, but the Donald followers seem to be making the most noise.

I'm a Donald cult follower. I've never before taken a stand on who the Giants should draft with their 1st pick. I'd try to predict who, and I was pretty good at it.

It's just that I've never before seen a prospect this damn good. I really believe he will be a great NFL player, size be damned.

Our pass rush won us 2 recent Superbowls (and clutch Eli too.) I think our pass rush would be one of the best in the NFL with JPP/Hankins/Donald/Moore(Kiwi).

(which I led for a time, along with Phil perhaps) was out earlier, followed by the Lewan fan club. I think the more tap people watch, the more they are awed by Donald's play. Whether they/we are right about him being able to be as effective in the NFL is another story.

I do believe that he's going to be gone at the latest by the Dallas pick, and may go much earlier. It reminds me of Fred Taylor, who was originally thought of as a late 2nd/early 3rd rounder but who eventually went 7th overall to TC's Jags.

Then put on NFL network now, path to the draft. They are highlighting your savior. LOL. I turn it on to see what's on the docket tonight and they mention Aaron Donald. Everywhere I turn he is there. lol

Our team was well rounded. That's what helped us win a Sb. Our pass rush was very good, but so was our OL and weapons around Eli. Plax, Toomer, Smith and Boss ; Nicks, Mario, Cruz and Ballard. Both sides of the ball had talent and played very well when we went on our run.

I have to see who is on the board when we draft. Hopefully, if Donald is that good he will be long gone when we draft.

I haven't been able to watch much TV. If Donald is plastered all over the place then I think he will go earlier than expected. For a while he was basically an after-thought.

In comment 11621970 AnishPatel said:

Quote:

I have to see who is on the board when we draft. Hopefully, if Donald is that good he will be long gone when we draft.

You can't simply assume that. There have been plenty of players who have been better than the bunch picked before them. Further this draft is LOADED and teams may reach for 2-4 Qbs before us. Donald can easily be one of the best and fall to us b/c teams may want in their minds a more sure bet due to the height (as this draft seems to have quite a few up top) .

In comment 11621976 mrvax said:

Quote:

I haven't been able to watch much TV. If Donald is plastered all over the place then I think he will go earlier than expected. For a while he was basically an after-thought.

Let's break this down:

Does he go before Clowney, Watkins, Matthews, Mack, Robinson, and now Evans (as 2 top 10 teams are drooling over him)?

Very Doubtful.

2-4 Qbs will go before 12. I'll split the difference and say 3. Bortles,Manziel and Bridgewater or Carr.

Barr, Lewan, Gilbert, Dennard, Ebron....just two of these need to go for Donald to make it to us.

QBs go before 12.
I think Ebron will drop to the end of the 1st round.
Evans is getting good press so he's likely to be taken before 12.

Yeah if he is that good I think teams will take him early. I actually watched regular game videos of Donald last night, scouting him closely for my own benefit. I try to stay away from highlight videos of a prospect and watch the game cut ups available on youtube. They just show random plays good or bad. So I watched the Pitt vs FSU & Miami game of him and wrote my scouting report on another site i post at because the cult followers have infiltrated there too, lol.

So I wanted to take a much closer look at Donald.

In comment 11621997 mrvax said:

Quote:

QBs go before 12. I think Ebron will drop to the end of the 1st round. Evans is getting good press so he's likely to be taken before 12.

I don't know about that . Too many teams in the top 10 need Qbs. I think this Qb class is underrated. Manziel has too much moxy and pure playmaking ability and some team like Cleveland is going to love him. Minny is said to have a mancrush on Carr. Bortles will probably go top 3. And Bridgewater despite the lackluster pro day was such a great decision maker and accurate in college and Qb is very much about decision making.

I am not assuming it. I am just saying if he is that good as the cult followers think, then perhaps a team may see this and draft him a lot earlier. I am not sure if teams will reach. We thought people would draft QBs last year and only EJ M. was the guy drafted. Everyone else dropped. I am thinking that may happen again. I am still curious how much the media hypes a lot of these prospects and warps reality of what's actually going on behind closed door for various teams.

I am not buying the media hype. It just comes down to what the Giants want. I just don't think the Giants will select Donald over Lewan or Evans if they are available maybe Ebron. This offense last year was one of the worse during the Eli era.

shake that nagging feeling that we're taking a LB in round one.

or more like 'Donald fans' bashing. I know there's been new Donald threads on bbi every other day, I don't usually read those discussions but I suppose that's the reason for the resentment

But don't dislike the player, he's still a great prospect

plus an interesting ranking of DTs by Pat Kirwan.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 11621862 GmenDynasty said:

Quote:

In comment 11621855 Gatorade Dunk said: Quote: I see the talent and potential in Donald and totally understand why so many fans are excited about him, but in my opinion, he just doesn't fit the Giants' archetype at DT, particularly under TC. I just don't see them taking him. I sometimes wonder if otherwise informed/intelligent fans are pushing for Donald so hard because it gives them the "I told you so" and "I'm smarter than Reese" angle if he does do well, because I feel like it's much more likely that whatever he does - good or bad - will be for a team that ISN'T the Giants. Did Pugh fit our archetype of a Tackle? When the talent/production/character is so good sometimes you don't worry about perfect body type (similiar to what they did with Pugh)

Did Pugh fit our archetype of a tackle? No. Did he fit our archetype of a versatile OL? Yes. There isn't a single measurable for which AD fits, historically, with the Giants DL picks under Reese. Don't get me wrong, I'd be thrilled with him, but I just don't think it's going to happen. All of the Donald love seems misguided.

Might as well order your Lewan/Martin/Evans/Ebron jersey now.

In comment 11621976 mrvax said:

Quote:

I haven't been able to watch much TV. If Donald is plastered all over the place then I think he will go earlier than expected. For a while he was basically an after-thought.

teams generally dont respond to media hype. They spend a lot of time energy and resources looking at player. I dont believe that Donald was an afterthought in NFL circles. His on the field performance and the fact he won a ton of defensive player awards speaks for itself..

However that combined with his excellent Senior bowl practices and combine might make some teams look a little closer.. There are always risers and fallers before the draft and I dont believe any of those are due to media influences.

In comment 11622005 AnishPatel said:

Quote:

Yeah if he is that good I think teams will take him early. I actually watched regular game videos of Donald last night, scouting him closely for my own benefit. I try to stay away from highlight videos of a prospect and watch the game cut ups available on youtube. They just show random plays good or bad. So I watched the Pitt vs FSU & Miami game of him and wrote my scouting report on another site i post at because the cult followers have infiltrated there too, lol. So I wanted to take a much closer look at Donald.

Anish - I've scouted him through those games as well. I know your preference for offensive players in this draft. Put that aside for a minute and please share with us your scouting report.

I'm really curious - those two games in particular were singled out as games where Donald was pushed around and not effective. I didn't see that - although he was not as productive stats-wise I did not see him pushed around at all.

Wondering if you concur. Would actually love a link to your review of these games.

Explosive first step
Non stop motor which keeps him in plays
Good use of hands. He is short to pushes up on taller OL players.
Good tackler
Good instincts as well

A lot of the stuff I saw quickly I was able to see closer and it was true.

A lot of double teams. If he didn't win right away he got blocked well. AD uses his explosive 1st step and leverage with good hand use. But when you have a RG and C on him. He wasn't going anywhere. He was driving back like on roller skates.

When he did make plays, it was because of his non stop motor. He was a sucker for screens. He reminds me of Dwight Freeney. Both are so focused on rushing the QB, that you can run screens and let AD come, and his OL guy breaks to block. Dwight Freeney, similarly, would be a sucker against draw concept or delay where DF would rush the QB, and take him out of the play.

I wanted to see what Donald was about very closely. So decided to see, and came away with my initial thought when I saw highlights of him. He is an interesting prospect to scout. He is no where near as good as his cult followers make him out to be. However, he is a very good prospect.

I think their is a leap of faith regarding him. I think scheme specific will be important. I saw in the FSU game he played LE. It will be tough against better OL prospects. On the one play he got close to the QB. Then FSU adjusted and the RT and RG stone walled him.

I noticed on down blocks he would get blown off the ball. Misdirection plays like naked boots or sprint left or right was interesting to see too. When that happens he gets in the backfield quickly. However, QB is moving the pocket so it renders AD as not a threat.

He is an interesting prospect. I do wish he was 6'3-6'5. This way when he knows he wasn't a factor he could get his arms up. That would be a very good tool.


Pitt Vs Miami

# 75 and # 65 vs #97 Aaron Donald

FSU vs PITT

C and RG

Gun to the head, I'd choose Donald. But I like them both, a lot.

I disagree with this part:

Quote:

He was driving back like on roller skates.

I really only saw one running play where he went backwards more than a yard in that entire FSU game. It was on a lateral run and he went back about 2, maybe two and a half yards when he was double teamed and the play was running to his right. Aside from that I never saw him go back more than a yard maximum when he had two defenders right on him, and mostly I didn't see him go back at all.

In the beginning of the FSU game they also did a few misdirection plays, including a screen that totally fooled Donald. The next time they tried the screen however, he recognized it and stopped his pursuit and was close to the runner when he was tackled for a very short gain (1 or 2 yds, iirc).

I remember reading criticism that Donald could be pushed around in the running game and was told to watch the FSU game. I watched that game, noted what happened in every single game, and really didn't see a single play that justified that kind of comment.

I agree that the LT in particular was good against Donald, and I also agree that he will likely struggle going up against the best LT's in the NFL (as do almost all NFL linemen). I also agree that when the double team comboed him at the los that he was usually done on the play, but these were sustained double teams, not chip blocks then release. If he ties up double teams in the NFL that way he will be doing an amazing job even if he gets no real pressure on those plays, as taking two blockers out helps the rest of the defense.

I didn't think the interior guys did well against him one on one, particularly the RG. He was overmatched by Donald.

I think the talent on that FSU Oline was very, very good. Mostly all-americans or all-conference, and likely most will end up in the NFL, probably as starters at some point. I expect the LT will be an early draft pick, possibly a first rounder.

This was supposed to be Donald's worst game this past year, and while he didn't dominate the game, it was clear that they schemed to misdirect in the first quarter, and at other times they schemed to double team Donald. When they failed to do that and he was lined up inside he was effective against both the pass and the run.

having faith that the Giants know what they're doing.It isn't really difficult to do.

If they pass on him, they pass. It shall not impact my happiness.

In comment 11622406 AnishPatel said:

Quote:

Explosive first step Non stop motor which keeps him in plays Good use of hands. He is short to pushes up on taller OL players. Good tackler Good instincts as well A lot of the stuff I saw quickly I was able to see closer and it was true. A lot of double teams. If he didn't win right away he got blocked well. AD uses his explosive 1st step and leverage with good hand use. But when you have a RG and C on him. He wasn't going anywhere. He was driving back like on roller skates. When he did make plays, it was because of his non stop motor. He was a sucker for screens. He reminds me of Dwight Freeney. Both are so focused on rushing the QB, that you can run screens and let AD come, and his OL guy breaks to block. Dwight Freeney, similarly, would be a sucker against draw concept or delay where DF would rush the QB, and take him out of the play. I wanted to see what Donald was about very closely. So decided to see, and came away with my initial thought when I saw highlights of him. He is an interesting prospect to scout. He is no where near as good as his cult followers make him out to be. However, he is a very good prospect. I think their is a leap of faith regarding him. I think scheme specific will be important. I saw in the FSU game he played LE. It will be tough against better OL prospects. On the one play he got close to the QB. Then FSU adjusted and the RT and RG stone walled him. I noticed on down blocks he would get blown off the ball. Misdirection plays like naked boots or sprint left or right was interesting to see too. When that happens he gets in the backfield quickly. However, QB is moving the pocket so it renders AD as not a threat. He is an interesting prospect. I do wish he was 6'3-6'5. This way when he knows he wasn't a factor he could get his arms up. That would be a very good tool. Pitt Vs Miami # 75 and # 65 vs #97 Aaron Donald FSU vs PITT C and RG

If he's doubled with JPP, Hankins, Moore or Kiwi all on the DL next to him, that's a huge win for us.

Also this league has shifted to a passing league more than ever. His ability to disrupt the pocket and get pressure is unparellelled even in the event he is not a monster vs. the run game.

Teams that happen to run well he can either rotate more on DE or have a more liberal substituion pattern for him. But with his strength and low center of gravity coupled with the load that is Hankins next to him, I think he will hold up adequately enough even vs. the run game.

In comment 11622423 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

having faith that the Giants know what they're doing.It isn't really difficult to do. If they pass on him, they pass. It shall not impact my happiness.

Well put!

It depends if you think Kiwi, Moore and JPP can contribute. If JPP is hurt and can't function or has issues lingering due to his back then that's an issue. Kiwi I don't really expect to be productive. I am surprised he is still on the team. Moore is a question mark.

In fact, I wouldn't call it a huge win for the Giants. If I am an opposing offense, I am scheming it that way until I see on tape that JPP and others are back to form or highly productive.

Using a basic I pro Right formation, which we use a lot, I would double both Hankins and Donald hypothetically. I have no issue about that. I wouldn't be worry about pass pro either. I agree with a report I read that he will have like 10 plays where he doesn't do much and then all of a sudden make a play. I thought the pass pro in the games I saw was good. Miami did a good job on him. I came away impressed by both OL players. I thought donald used good leverage and hand placement. His low center of gravity helped a lot, however you have 2 big OL guys blocking him, and they stood their ground.

My observation above sum up what I think of Donald. I wanted to see what the hype was about more closely. So I did and he certainly does good things.

In comment 11621655 Jon from PA said:

Quote:

I can't wait for this fucking draft to be over with.

Same here. This guy has a new thread everyday

In comment 11622522 AnishPatel said:

Quote:

It depends if you think Kiwi, Moore and JPP can contribute. If JPP is hurt and can't function or has issues lingering due to his back then that's an issue. Kiwi I don't really expect to be productive. I am surprised he is still on the team. Moore is a question mark. In fact, I wouldn't call it a huge win for the Giants. If I am an opposing offense, I am scheming it that way until I see on tape that JPP and others are back to form or highly productive. Using a basic I pro Right formation, which we use a lot, I would double both Hankins and Donald hypothetically. I have no issue about that. I wouldn't be worry about pass pro either. I agree with a report I read that he will have like 10 plays where he doesn't do much and then all of a sudden make a play. I thought the pass pro in the games I saw was good. Miami did a good job on him. I came away impressed by both OL players. I thought donald used good leverage and hand placement. His low center of gravity helped a lot, however you have 2 big OL guys blocking him, and they stood their ground. My observation above sum up what I think of Donald. I wanted to see what the hype was about more closely. So I did and he certainly does good things.

I understand the preference for offense at pick 12 but do you like what you see of Donald now enough to tkae him over other offensive players at 12?

Like my observations mentioned, I came away with respect for him. He has a lot of good attributes but there were flaws too. I still don't get the hype on him. I do respect his game more I can say, but no where near the hype his cult followers would do.

If I truly had time like I did 2007ish I would have picked 5 games and watched play after play and then cross reference the OL prospects he went up against and graded them too to see if he dominated undrafted FA or higher prospects. I don't have that time now.

However, 2 nights ago, I watched the regular video cut ups and stayed away from highlight videos and used those two games to see if I can gauge him.

There are other prospects I like better than Donald. I do like a DT, not our pick, but Hageman I think his name is. 6'6 310. I actually interested in a prospect like that later in the draft. His body build is a fit for us. We have size on the DL, and I believe that is a model which we use.

When you get arms in the air of JPP, Kiwi, and our existing DTs it makes it easier to knock down balls. I wonder if we stick with that model.

To answer your question though, I think I'd see who is on the clock when we pick. I don't see Donald as the guy. He doesn't excite me as he does to his cult followers.

but I can't help thinking of William Joseph when I think of him.

In comment 11622955 AnishPatel said:

Quote:

Like my observations mentioned, I came away with respect for him. He has a lot of good attributes but there were flaws too. I still don't get the hype on him. I do respect his game more I can say, but no where near the hype his cult followers would do. If I truly had time like I did 2007ish I would have picked 5 games and watched play after play and then cross reference the OL prospects he went up against and graded them too to see if he dominated undrafted FA or higher prospects. I don't have that time now. However, 2 nights ago, I watched the regular video cut ups and stayed away from highlight videos and used those two games to see if I can gauge him. There are other prospects I like better than Donald. I do like a DT, not our pick, but Hageman I think his name is. 6'6 310. I actually interested in a prospect like that later in the draft. His body build is a fit for us. We have size on the DL, and I believe that is a model which we use. When you get arms in the air of JPP, Kiwi, and our existing DTs it makes it easier to knock down balls. I wonder if we stick with that model. To answer your question though, I think I'd see who is on the clock when we pick. I don't see Donald as the guy. He doesn't excite me as he does to his cult followers.

Fair enough, but suffice to say I think he really jumps out on tape alot more than you do. DT is one of the single hardest positions to frequently 'pop' at. And I think he 'popped' more than any lineman Ive seen in College in a long time.

Call me crazy, but I think your strong desire to pick an offensive player @12 is clouding your true evaluation ability on Donald.

No problem man.

Here are some specific plays:

UM vs Pitt

1st Q 14:34 2and 4
RG and C

1st Q 5:17 3rd and 1
Down block to the right by #75 and 65. Rb mistake doesn't use vision to see the gap and runs into traffic

2nd 10:04 2nd and 20

Power concept LG pulls
Not as bad

4th 15:00 2nd and 7
3 yards off ball

4Q 4:23 1st and G
3y to the right

#65



FSU and Pitt

Just on this and I wish I had the whole normal game. Also, with an edited box or arrow on the player. This is why I hate doing scouting and game breakdowns without coaches tape, wide shot and tight shot angles. It makes everything so much harder.

1st 9:01 2nd and 4
Drive block

To be fair not sure if it says 97 or 87. I swear it said 87, but that's Reggie Green wr, so not sure.

2nd Q 14:17 1st and goal
#54 down block and seals him 2-3 yards to the right.

So based on what you say it's not bad. I was talking more in general. I am sure if I watched more games and had access to better angles I can find explosive plays and bad plays for him. That I am confident in.




As far as the other stuff. It depends. Sure those were sustained double teams. I wouldn't mind that all. Like I told GD the leader of the Aaron Donald BBI Cult. : )
A simple I pro right which we utilize I'd double both the 1 and 3T as a starting point. I run ISO or LEAD at the LBs. So I not concerned about Donald at all. If you're a DC and bait me to that. Fine, I'll take that and see where it goes. I'd double both tackles initially and challenge JPP and Kiwi to make plays. If not I am going to run over the Giants LBs. If by chance Donald is disruptive, then I can run different concepts like trap and perhaps a power, and pull the LG, and take Hankins 1 on 1.

I have seen Donald be disruptive and I have seen him be a non factor. His high motor is very nice and adds to his value. His eagerness to rush the passer reminds me of Dwight F. Freeney get into attacking the QB running a draw or delay to his side worked so well because the fool would run himself out of the play, which was fun to see. Donald from what I saw got baited on those concepts, specifically screens, where they'd shiver him and move to their landmarks for blocks. He'd could flying in at warp speed, QB got rid of the ball and the screen went on.

So it sticks to what I always say. No prospect is perfect, it's a matter of can you coach certain things up. If you can't you note it, if you can you don't worry about it. This goes for all prospects. That's what I look for when I watch a prospect or break down game tape.

In comment 11622892 GmenDynasty said:

Quote:

In comment 11622522 AnishPatel said: Quote: It depends if you think Kiwi, Moore and JPP can contribute. If JPP is hurt and can't function or has issues lingering due to his back then that's an issue. Kiwi I don't really expect to be productive. I am surprised he is still on the team. Moore is a question mark. In fact, I wouldn't call it a huge win for the Giants. If I am an opposing offense, I am scheming it that way until I see on tape that JPP and others are back to form or highly productive. Using a basic I pro Right formation, which we use a lot, I would double both Hankins and Donald hypothetically. I have no issue about that. I wouldn't be worry about pass pro either. I agree with a report I read that he will have like 10 plays where he doesn't do much and then all of a sudden make a play. I thought the pass pro in the games I saw was good. Miami did a good job on him. I came away impressed by both OL players. I thought donald used good leverage and hand placement. His low center of gravity helped a lot, however you have 2 big OL guys blocking him, and they stood their ground. My observation above sum up what I think of Donald. I wanted to see what the hype was about more closely. So I did and he certainly does good things. I understand the preference for offense at pick 12 but do you like what you see of Donald now enough to tkae him over other offensive players at 12?

No.....definitely not over Lewan or Evans.

Do you have an Xbox? Xbox has a free ESPN app and it has over 100 college games

I'm pretty sure the FSU game is there

I can't emphasize how much I really appreciate your taking the time and pointing out specific plays. Unlike yourself (and others here) I have no real specific experience at scouting guys - so I find it interesting to compare notes. I am traveling today and in a conference tomorrow and Friday, so I doubt I'll be able to review those specific plays before Saturday at the earliest, but I'm anxious to, and when I do I'll get back to you with my comments on those specific plays.

Thanks again!

for those interested in scouting players - check out the cut-ups on Aaron Donald (or others) at the link below. It's an amazing site that lets you see not just highlights but much more. There are six 2013 games of Donald's uploaded for you to watch with all his plays highlighted.
Aaron Donald on draftbreakdown.com - ( New Window )

No worries. I understand too. I haven't done this at a detailed level for 5-7 years now. So I just pointed out what I saw. I had to use my phone to watch the videos. However, I found those plays that jumped out and tried tagging it that way like I do on game breakdowns.

That's how the scouting process works. You're regional scout may have one opinion. He writes a report. You may see the film and have a different opinion. It goes around the room and you form a baseline opinion.

I learned a while back from Coach Garrett's father, who played, coached, and scouted in the NFL, you base your opinion on what you see and stick to it even when people agree or disagree. People in the meetings will try to discount it and get more of a majority. You stick to it and have examples and go with your gut. And in this business you will be right and you will be wrong. If someone is afraid to be wrong, then scouting isn't for them. Those are lessons I still remember a lot of years later.

Yeah perfect site. I used those. I don't ever look at highlights and lowlights videos. Everyone looks good on highlights, hence the name. I like video like this especially since the guy highlights the player. That's why wide shot and tight shot angles of games is effective. You can see everything much clearer.

But videos like this with recorded games help a lot. I like this site because the player is highlighted before the snap.

is the one play I was referring to where he was driven backwards while engaged and running laterally. In this case the handoff went around LT (while he was lined up in the LDT position) so it was running away from him. He was in pursuit from the backside, and his goal was to get to the action (down the line of scrimmage). While he's being blocked at the point of attack by the RG, the RT peels off and engages him in the drive block, and it's at this point that he is moved back a couple of yards at the LOS.

My point with this kind of play is that of course he is moved like he's on roller skates. He's not holding his position on the line, he's moving laterally toward the action. There is a lot of noise in between him and the ballcarrier. It's not as though he is being driven directly backwards because they are running directly at him, as some have implied can be done.

Again, on this play he is not being run at and driven directly backwards.

More on the other plays when I have time...

I don't know what you were looking at. Clearly you're not seeing Donald.

Ball is on the 4. Donald is lined up directly over the RT. Donald is first guy moving off the snap, and engages the RT 1/2 yard into the backfield as the line is moving to the right. Pretty much the entire D-line is collapsed, with the FSU Oline taking their assignments down. Donald is upright in the backfield. The runner is coming toward him and the RT is trying to block him out of the picture. Donald stands the RT up 3 yds in the backfield and forces the runner to alter his route into the LOS. Donald is shedding the RT as the runner comes by and is able to get one hand on the runner. Donald's position slows the runner down and forces him to look inside, while the backside pursuit from the RDE arrives to make the tackle for a two yard loss on the play.

This is not at all what one would expect to be pointed to as an example of Donald being a liability in the run game. I see Donald's penetration, stacking the RT and beginning to shed from the block as the runner approaches as all positives, and I don't see him being neutralized here - his speed blows the play up and his strength allows him to stop and drive the play inward for the TFL.

Maybe you meant something else, but watch again - I'm talking about 1st and goal from the four yard line (play begins at 14:17 and concludes at 14:11 with a facemask call on the RDE).

play he ends up moving laterally because he can't shed the block. There were great plays where he shed the block and flew in there in the backfield. Either he made the play or re-routed the RB into someone else. He is getting washed out and ends up going laterally. That happens and he ends up going that way because of his another good asset and that's his non stop motor. So he is able to still go in that direction but really be a non factor.

Had he shed early he strikes through and flies in the backfield, which he has done on successful plays many times too.


2nd play:

6 players up front.

....(50).(3)..(0)..(3)(50)
......X..E....N.....T..B..E (7)
.......O..O..[.]..O..O..Y


What happens is the LT, #75, can't down block in time on the End, at the weakside 3T. He does a very good job of hitting that B gap quickly. Not sure who that player is.

The RG and C combo on the Nose at 0T.

LG has Donald
RT B on the LOS at the (50T) and TE/OL has End at 70T.

The playside # 2 goes backside and takes out the weakside backer at the 50T.

Now the play is going to go either out side or B gap strong side, or playside. Why? Because you combo the center and take him out, which they did, and the play looks to have the Center chip off the Nose and get the backer.

The RG did his job and moved Donald out of B gap. So what creates what? A huge gap in B gap. Any other options?

What screws up the play royally is the damn LT. He gets beat like a drum, and let's the weakside 3T cross his face, and just blows up the play.

They had B gap right there. Donald is moved away on the drive block and they combo blocked the Nose and took him out. Now what I think should have happened is that #52 the center is supposed to chip off to backer. However, the fool falls down, lol, and basically RG, and center fall down with the Nose.

So you have two big issues. One being the RT who ruins the play. Next the center falls down when I believe they were trying to combo on the Nose and chip off to backer. LG did his job and created a HUGE B gap. Because the center can't move over and mainly because the weakside 3T comes in it screws the play up.

That's how I see the play. If I am the OL coach, I am telling the RT and Center if they had stuck to their blocks you have a big play. The RT can't get beaten inside like that.

Another curious thing, I would have had the # 2 back run ISO into B gap then worry about the trailing 50T.

out of the B-Gap, but I see two things about that play.

First, while clear that the RG did try to run him off and open the hole, it was obvious to me that Donald's assignment was not protection of that gap on that play. At the snap he is aligned in the gap between the RG and RT. He then drives into the backfield. Either he completely ignores his responsibility to that gap or he doesn't have responsibility by design. I'm inclined to believe the latter. This is a great play to discuss because the replay given really shows the alignments well. Notice how the LB #44 and Safety #25 are waiting with position for that gap. (I think the LB in particular is slow to move into that gap as he's reading the LB, and the safety appears to be ready to move outside if the runner bounces that way).

The second thing I notice is that once Donald is nearly three yards in the backfield he appears to recognize the play going into the gap he just left. He has the strength to hold his position (even though the RG has clear leverage and outweighs him by around 50 pounds). He does not get ridden out of the picture, but stops at that point. Notice the RG struggling to hold the block at that point. It is clear that Donald has the advantage now - the blocker is not in position to complete the drive block. This is a very important point to make - because it suggests he has the ability to fend off much larger blockers even when they have great position due to his strength.

What makes this play a bit more complicated is that obviously we do not know the assignments on the play. If Donald's job was to protect the gap between himself and the nose then he clearly lost on the play. If it was his job to attack the gap between the RG and RT he did well. What I see suggests to me that it is the latter.

Remember that the hole we see behind Donald does not include a clear path to a TD, but two second-level defenders who have a clear path to the runner. The poor play of the LT led to the tfl, but it is likely in this play that the runner is met at the LOS anyway by the defender's who are behind Donald with nobody in front of them. It might not happen because you can see that they aren't aggressive in filling that gap - they appear tentative.

Anyway - thanks for the good discussion. As mentioned before I'd like to continue this kind of analysis - it's my fav thing to do this time of year. I'm a fan of Donald but I know enough to know that I can learn a lot about football from a guy like you.

Yeah well we don't know the call and we don't know what he was supposed to do. The play could have been a bad call vs their set too now. Regarding slanting in that very well could have been the call.

When I coached we talked about this stuff. If a player wanted to go in the wrong direction, then by all means help him out. So if we are running B gap and he wants to slant away from it then fine. Down block him where ever he wants to go in fhr wrong direction. It makes B gap that much bigger for us to run through.

The trick to scouting I was taught by someone I respect a lot was look at the player but overall concept of that play and how he worked within the frame work.

So if you see a player going go the backfield. Great, AD does that. Except if he runs out of B gap and the play is heading there then you keep that in mind. He tries to change direction and it worked but the gap to run was huge at that point.

So his over aggressive nature can be used against him which I have talked to Sy I believe about too. But in the end your using all this information and projecting how he will do.

So that's what I am doing as I see him as will everyone else .

Had BBI existed in '81 and you were around, I'm sure you would have lobbied for George Rogers over LT had we had a choice of the two..:)

That was the year I was born. Had I been around I would have approached it the same as I always do. Though harder without the internet, or YouTube , or NFL network and so on.

Man 56, How did you exist then? : p

Most of the 50s, 60s and 70s NFL media coverage mainly consisted of fluff pieces and very rare Xs and Os...It wasn't until ESPN was born(1981?) that we got to see more expanded coverage.. We had local TV shows(Sports extra in NY) that dealt with scores and interviews, but still mostly fluff..

Then came the internet age..