BBI Article: NFL Draft Struggles Catching Up to Big Blue

got hot at the right time. Reese didn't draft either of those guys. We weren't the best team in football all year in either year. I'm not saying he didn't do a good job his first couple of drafts, but Eli and Tuck were not his players.

Pitt can say that..I think the red Sox can say that..

Plus, let's be hones hear, The 2 Sb teams were not some Superior talented teams that rolled the the season beating everyone..

I bet if you were to poll writers about the best GM's in sports, Reese probably wouldn't be in the top ten. Not because he's doesn't do a good job, The Giants themselves have been considered teams that got "hot" at the right team..

We all wanted to think that Reese had it, becausee he looked so good in the beginning, but regression towards the mean has caught up with him. He just doesn't have any special talent for drafting. It's not the end of the world.

I do think he should study his mistakes. In the mid-rounds he seems to takes alot more risks than others. The senior year injury/IR (Beckum,Austin), the untested physical attributes (Barden,Robinson) and a few tweeners (Simtim,Beckum again).

He doesn't seem to like taking players with tape that may show a weakness. There are reasons why they are still available in the middle rounds. I think Reese should be more cognizant of that, and emphasize players with tape over players with potential. It may not create homeruns, but could improve his average.

what difference does it make WHY we won those SBs? Winning, especially nowadays is about parity and getting hot at the right time. It also takes a TON OF BREAKS to get to, much less win a SB..If it was sheer talent the Niners would have 3 back o bck to back trophies..

All you hope for is to be in the mix and let clutch play and coaching bring home the hardware..

If it was just talent-based, Dallas, SF, Colts, Falcons(before last year) and even the Pats would have a lot more trophies to show for it..

and you would be wrong re the polling, imv

when have writers ever included the Giants at the top of anything? It killed them to acknowledge TC as one of the best in the league. Killed them, imo

In comment 11622669 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:

what difference does it make WHY we won those SBs? Winning, especially nowadays is about parity and getting hot at the right time. It also takes a TON OF BREAKS to get to, much less win a SB..If it was sheer talent the Niners would have 3 back o bck to back trophies.. All you hope for is to be in the mix and let clutch play and coaching bring home the hardware.. If it was just talent-based, Dallas, SF, Colts, Falcons(before last year) and even the Pats would have a lot more trophies to show for it..

You know...this is spot on.

Keep in mind though, Reese can really only control the talent-portion which is the biggest factor in winning more games than you lose.

of course..

I think you just made chris's argument when you stated..

"If it was just talent-based, Dallas, SF, Colts, Falcons(before last year) and even the Pats would have a lot more trophies to show for it.."


Anyway, we'll agree to disagree..:-)

True, Eli and Tuck weren't his players but the Giants don't make SB42 WITHOUT the players he did bring in. Of the 8 players drafted that year, the only player that didn't contribute to the SB run was Adam Koets. That's without mentioning Michael Matthews, another Reese UDFA, who was a very good blocking TE for us.

Offseason acquisitions include Lawrence Tynes and Kawika Mitchell. Right before the start of that season we claimed Kevin Boothe off of waivers. During the season we signed Dave Tollefson, Domenik Hixon, Madison Hedgecock and Danny Ware.

So in his first season as GM there were several players he inherited, however I'm sure he was instrumental in getting alot of them too considering his 13 previous years with the team. But the contributions he did add that first year has plenty to do with why we got hot at the right time. That's what makes him a good GM.

Since '07 the only two time champs of the 4 major sports in that period are:

Red Sox: '07 and '13
Heat: '12 and '13
Blackhawks: '10 and '13

and us.

I'll gladly take that company!

But I don't think it properly frames the issues with the Giants.

Looking at all of the players acquired by the Giants through the draft, I would say that out of all the ones that departed the team the vast majority of them either had serious health concerns after suffering significant injuries, or were let go because they performed very well but were not worth their asking price when it came time for a new contract.

The only relevant question we should be asking in terms of how we should be evaluating the GM's performance with draft selections is: how many players who were drafted in the last 7 years are no longer with the team specifically due to poor performance? In my opinion, I don't think it's very many at all.

Maybe one day someone will look into it.Every argument this gets brought up and used in Reese's favor,but it never gets investigated.

Start with the teams in the playoffs,chances are they are doing something right.

In comment 11622417 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:

Everyone wants Quinn gone, yet the Giants believe there are reasons why his units shit the bed..They have film. They know who missed assignments. They know who was supposed to be where..

That does little to comfort me, because there's really no evidence that the Giants as a team are competent at any special teams endeavor. That includes analyzing tape of it.

Newsome did not draft Ray Lewis, Ed Reed or Anquan Boldin who absolutely were keys to them winning another SB. It happens. Does SF GM get criticized because J Smith, C Rodgers, A Brooks or G, Dorsey were not drafted by the Niners.

There is not a GM who has drafted better in the 1st 2 rounds since he has been drafting. He has missed on 2 picks in those rounds. Sintim was a terrible pick because of system. Austin was boom or bust.

Newsome has drafted the following 1st & 2nd round players: K. Boller, Dwan Edwards, D. Cody, S. Kindle, A. Terry, T. Cody, M. Oher, M. Clayton

his 3rd rd picks:Musa Smith, Devard Darling, Yamon Figures, David Pittman, Tavaras Gooden, Oneil Cousins, T. Zibkowski, Ed Dickson, Jah Reid,

He is genius though and an expert at drafting and Reese sucks. Ted Thomson is no different nor is Pittsburgh. Belichik has been awful at drafting

You find players after the 3rd round you get lucky - period. Complaining about 4th-7th rd picks is ridiculous when 2/3 of these guys don't make the NFL at all

than who did? Marc Ross?

He's been there since 96'

9:19 post. It's not only well thought out, but quite accurate imo..

Won in large part on the backs of players he didn't bring in.

The other explanation is that Reese furnished the team with SB talent but coach Coughlin has led it to underachiever impression often then not.

It's hard to have it both ways.

Led it to under achieve more often than not.

We're done here..Bottom line, 2 SBs in 6 years and effectively in charge of drafting talent since 2002..

He's a very good GM, one of the best imv(and many others)..Sorry if he's fucked up at times

that Reeese is viewed around the league as one of the top GMs? I'm not saying he isn't but that has been stated several times and I don't understand where it comes from, other than some poster's personal opinions, or one anonymous quote posted here from 2009.

As with other things we've heard through the media and other outlets, it's all made up..

Reese is average amd benefitted by star alignment/good fortune..Unfortunately, most other GMs do not have his luck or fortuitiveness..Definitely not in Newsome's class, for example..

... Is it drafting? free agent signings? organizational infrastructure? coaching oversight? number of playoff appearances?

Wasn't it Parcells who said that "you're only as good as your record says you are?

So Reese has been the GM for 7 seasons. He's presided over two World Championship teams and has had a winning record in 6 of his 7 seasons.

However, his teams have only made the playoffs in three of his seven years. That blurs the picture for me.

Hard to dispute that Jerry Reese is a successful General manager. In my mind you cannot make reach any categorical conclusions about him until:

a) he selects his own coach;
b) selects his own QB to lead the franchise;

Amazingly, he has done neither yet. Its a big year for him because he will feeling some real heat if they don't make the playoffs.

Until he does one of the above two things, you almost have to give him the benefit of the doubt. Look around the league. Give me some better GM candidates and then the discussion begins.

Again, I am not saying JR is not a good GM, but saying "he is widely viewed around the league as one of the best" isn't an argument, it's an opinion. I asked what the opinion was based on, not whether it was true or not.

But if its easier to say then that anyone who questions it must believe he sucks, well then I don't know what to say.

this is a very selective board..Depending on one's POV on anything Giants, where you heard or read something only matters if it SUPPORTS your opinion. If not, it's "don't believe everything you read or hear..Besides, what else is he going to say?"

So, here goes my selective POV..Aside from seeing what has transpired in the main since Reese has taken over, I have read through the years articles by respected(to me) writers who claim to have heard from other GMs and personnel people that Reese is highly regarded. This has been echoed by Such reapected people as Pioli, Polian, Kirwan, Belichick as well as other guests on Sirius. Personally, my fan criteria has been, who has done a better OVERALL job? It's subjective in many ways, but to me two championships in recent years is all that matters..It is one of the hardest things to accomplish in all of sports no matter how you got there and how you fared, imo..

I'm not trying to call you out. I've heard the same comments about Reese on Sirius, but honestly I have heard those same people complement a lot of coaches and GMs I think we could all agree are far from the best in the league.

Reese has had his moments and definitely done a lot of things well, but there is also plenty of evidence that he is far from infallible - the 2009 draft being one example.

I've been saying that for awhile now, that Reese is imperfect; that he has his warts..I'm just not willing to overlook his body of work since he started helping out Accorsi with Draft stuff when he was hired in 2002..

...hence JR's increased participation in scouting this class. Marc Ross needs to deliver or he could be in trouble much more so than his boss imo.

Newsome was named GM on Nov 2002. His first draft was 2003. Lewis and Reed were already on the team

I'd say Newsome was the one making the picks.

But that doesn't fit your argument

He is evaluated by how well he constructs a team for his coach. If that means taking risks in the later rounds of the draft and using FAs to fill the gaps, so be it. Its a strategy, nothing more.