for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

NYG Draft Preview - Offensive Tackles

Sy'56 : 4/17/2014 9:00 am

DISCLCAIMER: I broke the OL previews in to two categories, guards/centers and tackles. This can be difficult to organize because a few of these guys have the skill set to play different positions. But keep in mind that versatility is part of their grade and I am grading these guys where I think they would best fit for NYG.

Current OT on the NYG Roster:

William Beatty – 29 – Signed through 2017

Justin Pugh – 24 – Signed through 2016

Charles Brown – 27 – Signed through 2014

Steven Baker – 26 – Signed through 2015

Tony Kropog – 28 – Signed through 2015



Where They Stand:

The Giants have a lot of question marks along the outside of the line. However, the performance of Pugh throughout his rookie season was admirable to say the least. He locked down the RT position and appears to already be the most reliable tackle this team has. The question surrounding him is, does he stay at RT? Or would NYG consider moving him over to the position he played in college, left tackle. Part of that discussion revolves around the healthy of Beatty, who is recovering from a broken leg that could linger in to the summer. Even if he does return healthy, has Beatty done enough to possess the most important position on this OL? He is locked up long term but that can’t sway the coaches in to putting him back in the starting lineup. He was a low level starter in 2013 and he could put a strict limit on how good this team can be. Beyond the two starters, NYG has little-to-no long term promise. Brown, Baker, and Kropog are replaceable right now. They shouldn’t sway NYG from making any draft weekend decisions at this position.



Top 10 Grades:

1 – Greg Robinson – Auburn – 6’5/332: 84

2 – Jake Matthews – Texas A& M – 6’6/308: 83

3 – Taylor Lewan – Michigan – 6’7/309: 82

4 – Zach Martin – Notre Dame – 6’4/308: 81

5 – Joel Bitonio – Nevada – 6’4/302: 80

6 – Cyrus Kouandijo – Alabama – 6’7/322: 77

7 – Morgan Moses – Virginia – 6’6/314: 77

8 – Wesley Johnson – Vanderbilt – 6’5/297: 73

9 – Antonio Richardson – Tennessee – 6’6/336: 72

10 – Ju’waun James - Tennessee – 6’6/311: 72



Day One Target:

Greg Robinson – Auburn

I would put the chances of Robinson falling outside of the top 8 at less than 50%, but I think the view on him around the league is very mixed. His top 5 potential didn’t really catch on until halfway through the college 2013 season, but scouts have been talking about him for a couple years now. When looking for the “blue goose” left tackle prospect, Robinson is the kind of guy that coaches/GMs want. He has the size and movement ability of the elite, once-every-three-or-four years guy. My issue with him is there will be a lot of development and learning that needs to be done prior to him being put outside. The Auburn scheme was VERY friendly to him, in that they ran the ball a ton and rarely asked him to play in a traditional pass blocking set up. When it comes to how he fits in with NYG, I actually think he could be an elite guard. Down the road he could make the move to left tackle, but that could take a year or two. If Robinson somehow drops to NYG, they could have themselves an All-Pro caliber guard right away as well as a future left tackle.

Runner Up: Jake Matthews – Texas A& M


Day Two Target:

Joel Bitonio – Nevada

The more tape I have seen of Bitonio over the best two months, the more I believe he can be a very good starter in the NFL. NYG needs to increase their power presence up front. They simply need the blue collar guys that want to beat people up and drive them through the ground, which is the approach I see out of Bitonio every time I put his tape on. There is some underrated athleticism to his game as well. His feet are light, he can easily bend at the knees while keeping himself upright, and he has a pair of heavy hands. Bitonio graded out as a first rounder for me, but I think he could be had in round 2. He would provide some position-versatility for a unit that has questions across the board. I am thinking NYG could have another Justin Pugh-type guy here, possibly even with more upside.

Runner Up: Morgan Moses – Virginia


Day Three Target:

Wesley Johnson – Vanderbilt

I’ve watched a lot of SEC football over the past few months. One tackle stands out every time he is on the screen, and it is Johnson. He won’t wow anyone with his movement or power, and he is a little undersized when it comes to his girth. But Johnson was as productive as any offensive tackle in the conference outside of Matthews/Robinson. There is some talk of him moving inside, but I don’t see why. He outplayed Clowney and Ealy by a landslide. He has 51 straights starts to his name, majority of which were at left tackle. He is a guy that knows the game, works hard, and consistently does the little things right. I think he can be a starter down the road once he adds some strength to his game.

Runner Up: Parker Graham – Oklahoma State


Most Overrated:

Billy Turner – North Dakota State

I think there are a lot of analysts that try too hard to label the diamond in the rough of a group from a small school. Many have been all over Turner because of his size/movement combination. But truth be told. Turner is a really bad lineman. He has minimal use technique with poor footwork and light hands. He is constantly chasing after pass rushers, rarely do you see him sit and anchor a position. I’ve seen his name in some 2nd round talk, and I don’t think he is a guy you take before round 6.

Runner Up: Antonio Richardson



NYG Approach:

Like the guards/centers, there is instability at offensive tackle right now. Pugh is solid, but I’ve never been a Beatty guy and last year almost shut the door on him. He may be the starter though simply because there is nothing else on the roster that could upgrade the position. I think his contract was very short-sighted and may have been one of the worst moves this front office has made in a long time. Despite him being signed long term, I think NYG needs to address this position early on. They can’t have any more repeats of what happened last year. Their entire offense was drugged down to a lower level because of the poor play up front. There will be an opportunity with one of their first three picks to bring in a nice value pick that could potentially contribute right away. In this deep overall draft class, I think we are going to see a tackle drop way beyond his actual ranking. NYG would be foolish to pass on him at that point. I still believe you could see Robinson or Matthews drop within striking distance. This unit needs to get back to dominant, consistent, reliable football. Their starting personnel and back ups can be replaced right now with some of these rookies.
Sy  
Dnew : 4/17/2014 9:10 am : link
Thanks so much for doing these scouting reports...I literally check every morning to see if there is another one and that is about the extent of my reading prior to the draft. I know you can't write up a report on everyone, but I'm really curious as to what your thoughts on Zach Martin were and where he might fit in on the Giants line immediately. Would he be worth the #12 pick? Would he project to guard in the short term and later to a tackle spot? The more I think about the Giants roster, the more I think it's going to come down to Martin or Donald with pick #12.
I like Bitonio for the interior line  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/17/2014 9:14 am : link
Moses looks like a fine player too, but as a Tackle. If you draft Moses, stick him at RT and kick Pugh inside.

If you draft Bitonio, put him at RG and leave Pugh at RT.
awesome as usual and thank you  
GiantNatty : 4/17/2014 9:19 am : link
but gotta ask- what do you think of Lewan? forget the off-the-field stuff for now. just what you see on tape...
Morgan Moses has room to develop  
Greg from LI : 4/17/2014 9:20 am : link
Scott Wachenheim is a godawful OL coach. Moses' technique needs a lot of work, and he has to keep his weight down, but he's got the potential to be a solid RT.
Sy thanks.  
Big Blue '56 : 4/17/2014 9:21 am : link
Two quickies:

1-At the time it was signed, many here thought Beatty's contract was a fair one, in fact some felt it was a steal..

2-On DefenderDawg's thread, I saw where someone had Jake Mathews falling to us at 12.. Is that possible/probable and if so, your thoughts on us grabbing him?
RE: Morgan Moses has room to develop  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/17/2014 9:21 am : link
In comment 11624455 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Scott Wachenheim is a godawful OL coach. Moses' technique needs a lot of work, and he has to keep his weight down, but he's got the potential to be a solid RT.


I was hoping you'd get into this discussion since you've seen him. He looks a bit stiff, but size and feet-wise, he looks like an absolutely prototypical NFL tackle. Huge size.
Sy  
DonnieD89 : 4/17/2014 9:28 am : link
I have seen more than 1 mock draft having the Giants trade up to #8 giving up their #12 and a 3rd round pick to select either Matthews or Robinson. Do you really think these 2 OTs are worth the trade up?
he's not a can't miss guy  
Greg from LI : 4/17/2014 9:31 am : link
His college career was up and down, and at times he looked downright terrible, but a lot of that is poor coaching. He's got the physical goods - extremely long arms, huge size, thick lower body. Not an elite athlete, but athletic wnough for RT. He's a high character kid, and I think he's showing that he's committed to watching his weight.
I  
AcidTest : 4/17/2014 9:33 am : link
am a UVA alum, and agree with what Greg said about Moses. He needs to keep his weight down, and work on his technique. He sometimes just uses his enormous size and wingspan as opposed to proper technique to ride defenders away from the QB. That gets the job done, but proper technique is lacking. The good news is that he appears to be very coachable, and did well against Beasley and the kid from BYU. He is also tremendous in the run game, although he is sometimes lost in space. He reminds me of Kareem. McKenzie, and could be a very dominant RT. Pugh would move back to LT, a position he played in college. He'd be a great pick at #43, but I expect him to be a late first round pick, so we'd have to get him after a trade down.

I also like Johnson and James.

Well done.
GiantNatty - RE: Lewan  
Sy'56 : 4/17/2014 9:34 am : link
I really like him. He's just a hair under Matthews on my board and he is going to be in the run for #12 overall. As a player, he is a mauler first, finesse second type guy. He works hard to maintain proper form and leverage, but almost too much. It almost appears he'll lose out on some power output at times because he tries to hard to have perfect technique.

This guy is an elite athlete for the position and he is a really good run blocker. I want him to use that more instead of trying to impress with textbook form. He can be a 10+ year starter in the league and a guy that teammates love to play with. I think he would do great for NYG.
Thanks Sy  
OTIS70 : 4/17/2014 9:34 am : link
Great stuff as always...Any chance you could give us YOUR view on Lewan and Martin? Given that these two will likely be options Round 1?
BB'56  
Sy'56 : 4/17/2014 9:38 am : link
Regarding Beatty...I've gotten in to numerous debates with numerous people here. I was in the minority in saying he did not deserve a long contract worth anything more than $2-3 million per year. I have never thought he had the ceiling to warrant one. Can he be a starter in this league? Sure. But for a team that has Super Bowl aspirations (legit ones) every year? I don't think so. He's the kind of guy that can start for an Oakland, Jacksonville type team. I just think some fans (and Reese) inflated what he actually is because he was drafted to this team based on upside and he had a few respectable performances. But it was a quick trigger contract that impeded this OL from getting better.
Donnie D  
Sy'56 : 4/17/2014 9:43 am : link
I mentioned a few weeks back...that there may be an opportunity to trade UP in this draft from #12. Everyone and their mother wants to trade back...simple d supply/demand tells me that a bargain could be had for jumping up 4-5 spots if a top player falls. The question is...would Matthews and/or Robinson be worth giving up a 3rd? Tough to say.

This may sound off...but I am more confident in Matthews coming in and getting the job done. But I think Robinson has some special in him if he can learn the NFL game....at guard or tackle. I would be more confident in trading up for Matthews actually. Not sure that makes sense to you...but all the complication with the decision leads me towards thinking staying put at 12 may be the best route. Still tough to say without knowing exactly what went on prior to 12.
I really like...  
NYGiants89 : 4/17/2014 9:45 am : link
What I have seen from Ja'Wuan James. I have used draftbreakdown.com to watch every snap of his from all six games they have up there (one from the 2012 season).

Set the record for career starts at Tennessee.

Seems the only reason he's not a fringe first-round pick is because he played right tackle with Antonio Richardson across from him. From watching both, I feel like James is right now the better tackle and player.

He has incredibly quick feet and gets into his stance quicker than most right tackles, especially the ones his size. He has a strong enough base to stand up to bull rushers as well.

His 3-cone was the fifth-best of all offensive tackles.

He's pretty impressive blocking in space also -- something I noticed on screens.


Ja'Wuan James Draft Profile - ( New Window )
Sy  
YAJ2112 : 4/17/2014 9:45 am : link
What are your thoughts on Cyrus Kouandijo?
OTIS  
Sy'56 : 4/17/2014 9:46 am : link
Look at my 9:34 for my view on Lewan.

Martin is a guy I like...and Iactually spoke highly of him in 2012. There was a chance he would come out and I thought he was a top 45 guy back then.

He reminds me of Pugh in that he can bring versatility to the table. Doesn't have the ideal size for OT but he can play there. He can play inside. Really good hands and balance. Rarely does he look like he is out of place and/or catching up. He would give NYG a lot of options to play with and thats something I think they need. This OL may be a really tough group to figure out between the injuries, age, and inexperience concerns.
YAJ  
Sy'56 : 4/17/2014 9:50 am : link
I like Kouandijo in a similar way I like Robinson. The upside is high enough to warrant a pretty early pick. The knee stuff got blown out of proportion...I docked his grade a couple of points but it isn't anything serious. Guy never missed a game OR practice in college. How many players can say that?

I think Reese is going to like him and I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him be the #12 overall pick. He has enough quality tape to warrant the selection there. He just gets sloppy, really sloppy, at times. Not sure if there is a learning/mental/concentration issue or what. But keep in mind...everyone thought he was a top 5 lock for this draft at this time last year. Reese will get after guys like that....so even though I have him as a 2nd rounder, I think Reese may pull the trigger on him in round 1.
Thanks Sy  
DonnieD89 : 4/17/2014 9:52 am : link
I do somewhat agree with you on Matthews. He seems more of the safer pick between the 2 top OTs. It does make more sense given the premiss you set up regarding Robinson's lack of pass protecting experience dictated by the offensive scheme he participated in Auburn. They could also wait for Lewan at 12, which would be a good thing at the OT position and not giving up the 3rd rounder. I guess it all depends on how bad the Giants want and OLineman, particularly an OT.
Once again thanks Sy  
Rick in Dallas : 4/17/2014 9:53 am : link
can you comment on Jack Mewhort and Michael Schofield.They seem like possible cndidates for the 4th and 5th round for the Giants.
And Donnie  
Sy'56 : 4/17/2014 9:56 am : link
Don't overlook the possibility of one of them dropping to 12...Just looking at the board and teams, it's possible.
Rick  
Sy'56 : 4/17/2014 9:57 am : link
Not big on either. I don't see the upside there and you can find those guys anywhere in draft. The backup types that eventually get replaced down the road. I have them in the 6th/7th round area.
thanks again, Sy...!  
GiantNatty : 4/17/2014 10:00 am : link
.
RE: BB'56  
LauderdaleMatty : 4/17/2014 10:08 am : link
In comment 11624491 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
Regarding Beatty...I've gotten in to numerous debates with numerous people here. I was in the minority in saying he did not deserve a long contract worth anything more than $2-3 million per year. I have never thought he had the ceiling to warrant one. Can he be a starter in this league? Sure. But for a team that has Super Bowl aspirations (legit ones) every year? I don't think so. He's the kind of guy that can start for an Oakland, Jacksonville type team. I just think some fans (and Reese) inflated what he actually is because he was drafted to this team based on upside and he had a few respectable performances. But it was a quick trigger contract that impeded this OL from getting better.


This. IMO Reese panicked. He had to know the line was not solid and IMO was hoping with his heart not his head Beatty would step up after that deal. I also think people here latched onto that PFF ranking Beatty so high after 2012 like it was definitive proof that Reese got a great deal. Maybe he bounces back but I think he's a LT that needs a lot of help. At 8 mil per that's a problem.
Wesley Johnson - Vandy's  
PeterS : 4/17/2014 10:20 am : link
best o-lineman since Will "Tractor" Wofford. What I like about Johnson is his ability to play any o-line position. This is a quality that the Giants have coveted in the past.
For a while now  
illmatic : 4/17/2014 10:22 am : link
I've been thinking Matthews could slide. I don't know if he would fall all the way to 12 but I can easily see him in the 8-10 range. It would make for an interesting trade up thought. I don't know if I like the idea of them giving up a third but maybe they can move back a bit in the second depending on who's still there and regain a pick in that round.
I think the Giants might  
Dnew : 4/17/2014 10:27 am : link
make a deal to move up...I don't think it will be for a OL. If they make a move to get into the top 10 I think it will be to grab either Evans or Watkins. From what I've read on the draft, the QBs are falling and I think a lot of those QB needy teams will snatch up the OT instead, thus making Robinson, Matthews, Lewan a non-issue....just projecting though...I've got no real proof that's what will actually happen.
At the time  
fkap : 4/17/2014 10:41 am : link
many yelled hurrah that we locked up Beatty before he hit FA. Then FA hit, and we found out we overpaid. He got some elite dollars, and the overall general consensus is that he's not elite (there are some who disagree). I don't recall anyone outside a slim fringe who thought we got a value deal on him.

It was the inverse of the LJo situation. The vast majority here claimed LJo was elite, pay the man, don't let our young talent get away, while Reese said 'not gonna overpay'. With Beatty, there was significant difference of opinion as to whether he was good, bad, or indifferent and Reese said 'can't let this young talent get away' and backed up the money wagon to make it happen.
I don't really get why people don't like Beatty's contract.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/17/2014 10:50 am : link
Have you seen what Tackles are paid? It's not as if he's being paid top-tier money. He's not. It's a bit high, but hardly bloody murder.

He's maybe 10th on the list of top-50 LT contracts.

It's a complete fantasy that the Giants were going to retain his services for 2.8-3m a year. It doesn't happen. Justin Pugh is making 2.0 on the second year of his rookie contract as a RIGHT tackle.

A 30 year old veteran stopgap like Donald Penn makes 4.8 and an average, injured LT like Sam Baker makes 6.4.
I think we throw arould the idea of elite money at a position  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/17/2014 11:08 am : link
Without knowing the context of salaries.
Will Beatty isn't making "elite dollars".

Joe Thomas, 11.5 (80.5)
D. Ferguson, 10 (60)
R. Clady, 10.5 (52.5)
T. Willams, 10 (60)*Rookie Contract
J. Peters, 9.5 (38.3)
R. Okung, 8 (48.5) *Rookie Contract

Here's Beatty's [7.5 (37.5)] peer group in terms of salary

Eugene Monroe, 7.5 (37.5m)
Sam Baker, 6.8 (41.1)
Jermon Bushrod, 7.1 (39.5)
Scared that we land Turner or Robinson if we go elsewhere  
Mason : 4/17/2014 11:16 am : link
1st round. I agree both vastly overrated. But it seems that everyone views them as such but still mock them high. Bitonio is a steal we could get. Sucks about Brandon Thomas because, I would be happy if the Giants got him because I think he is going to play tackle in the NFL. The Saints should be forced to use their 2nd pick on him.
If we move up  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 4/17/2014 12:07 pm : link
to grab Evans, that will be the nadir of Giant drafting. Right up there with Rocky Thompson...
Its not only the $ that Beatty is getting  
JOMO25 : 4/17/2014 12:33 pm : link
its that (like every guy on the team other than Rolle) that makes > 3mm per, he didn't perform close to the value of his contract.
I'd be glad to move Pugh to LT  
JOMO25 : 4/17/2014 12:39 pm : link
and go with Bitonio in Rd 2 or Mewhort in Rd 3. While either is capable of providing versatility at 4 OL spots, both would likely beat out Beatty at RT. Don't be held hostage to a bad contract. Go w the best 5 and allow the skill guys time and room to operate.

LT: Pugh/backed up by Brown/Beatty

LG: Schwartz/Jerry

C: Walton/Ikard in Rd 6

RG: Snee/Mosely

RT: Bitonio or Mewhort backed up by Brown/Beatty
JOMO  
JerseyCityJoe : 4/17/2014 12:57 pm : link
Don't like the idea of Pugh at LT. He seems as they say "light in the pants" for an LT. He looks like a TE out there.
RE: I don't really get why people don't like Beatty's contract.  
LauderdaleMatty : 4/17/2014 1:52 pm : link
In comment 11624670 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Have you seen what Tackles are paid? It's not as if he's being paid top-tier money. He's not. It's a bit high, but hardly bloody murder.

He's maybe 10th on the list of top-50 LT contracts.

It's a complete fantasy that the Giants were going to retain his services for 2.8-3m a year. It doesn't happen. Justin Pugh is making 2.0 on the second year of his rookie contract as a RIGHT tackle.

A 30 year old veteran stopgap like Donald Penn makes 4.8 and an average, injured LT like Sam Baker makes 6.4.


Because he's not a good tackle and was given a shitload of up front cash making a him uncuttable.

I don't care what all the arm chair GMs heer say or what the PFF stat geeks rated him at. I never was impressed. Pat Kirwan before 2013 stated he wasn't even a starter quality player. I didn't know that fopr sure but was very uneasy as I never thought he looked impressive. ever.

What I don't understand is how a guy who before last year had about 20 career starts keep insisting he's got some unassailable career where we can assume last year was the aberration and the norm.
Pat Kirrwan has his opinion, that's fine  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/17/2014 2:20 pm : link
He also graded Eugene Monroe as the #1 overall pick in the 2009 draft, and he was traded for a 4th and 5th round pick just recently.

Other Pat Kirwan positional faves from his 2009 mock:


OT Jason Smith (#2 overall) 27 years old, on his 4th NFL team
OT Michael Oher (#18) Still more known for his story, not his play
LMatty  
fkap : 4/17/2014 2:22 pm : link
exactamundo
he's structured so that he was penciled in as the starter for 3 years, minimum. At a bare minimum, if you cut him in year 3 of the contract, it's basically even. After that, it's still serious cap hit to cut him. Cutting him this year isn't even an option.

you don't give someone that kind of signing bonus unless you figure he's going to be the anchor for a while.

He got one helluva deal. Hopefully, his issues this past year were due to the circus going on next to him, and let's face it, there was a major 3 ring circus to his right.
Matty  
BigBlueCane : 4/17/2014 3:54 pm : link
the problem is, we don't know what the alternatives actually are. We can discuss and project what we want, but we don't know what the Giants staff and scouts think.

RE: JOMO  
drkenneth : 4/17/2014 4:00 pm : link
In comment 11624959 JerseyCityJoe said:
Quote:
Don't like the idea of Pugh at LT. He seems as they say "light in the pants" for an LT. He looks like a TE out there.


Coughlin said he wants him at 318 and did not rule out Pugh at LT. You do know that RTs are typically bigger than RTs, correct? You say Pugh is "light in the pants" but you are fine with him at RT? I think LT is probably his best position.
RTs are bigger than LTs...  
drkenneth : 4/17/2014 4:01 pm : link
..
Thx DrKenneth  
JOMO25 : 4/17/2014 4:08 pm : link
. Also, its easier to find a RT (i.e. one that doesn't require a high draft pick or major $$). So, for 2014, you start Pugh at LT and let Bitonio, Brown, Beatty fight it out for the RT starting spot w the two losers backing up OT and even OG spots. Versatility.
Still think Lewan's buddy ….  
Manny in CA : 4/17/2014 4:50 pm : link
Michigan OT Michael Schofield will be the steal of the draft in the late rounds. Watching highlights of Lewan, Schofield looks just as good …

He impressed at the Senior Bowl.
Beatty was such a downer.  
D HOS : 4/17/2014 5:11 pm : link
Quote:
Their entire offense was drugged down to a lower level...

Yes indeed at times that OL did play like they were drugged and I don't mean the LT kind.

Sy'56, might you guess as to how many OL picks the Giants will end up taking? I'd be happy with 3 total OL picks from rounds 2-5. Or 2 picks total if one of them is 1st round.
OT's  
Dragon : 4/18/2014 4:15 am : link
In this draft there are two possibly three OT's that could start from day one at LT Matthews and Robinson for sure and Lewan a good bet at RT. Lewan has the tools to one day move to LT but would be a safer bet to start out at RT. With the 12th pick in one of the reported strongest drafts in years you don't draft a guy like Martin at 12. He could be a RT or even a LT but his best position is OG the value does not match the position in this draft. This draft also has OT's available well into the 4th round that could be very good RT's in the future.

Beatty had a bad year and the leg injury but I just don't see anyone on our roster that is better than him at LT. Pugh played RT and I think most agree he did somewhere between good and very good but at RT not LT. Is his best position maybe OG or OC don't think it's LT in the NFL, however I also don't want to see him end up jumping from one position to another if at all possible. He gives another option not to force drafting another OT or OG high but his final position is also a factor for his future development.

Snee is a true wild card will he be physically ok and can he remain that way for a full season no one knows. How much longer can you count on him and have any of the young guys taken the bull by the horns to make the leap to NFL starter is another big question. The line play was not very good last but I still don't believe all the blame belongs only to the OL.

It's simple at 12 we have to hope one of the big three are there if not position and value just don't match for OT/OG in this draft. Last year Pugh was a reach for many of us but his ability to play several positions helped but at pick #12 you have to go BPA not most versatile.
D HOS  
Sy'56 : 4/18/2014 5:55 am : link
I think NYG will use 1 pick on OL this year, although I think it should be more. Reese may be a little stubborn when it comes to his approach of the OL. I think it's pretty close to factual that this group needs to be upgraded in a few spots, and its been that way for too long.

I can't see him overlooking the group for more than 2 or 3 rounds.
deep or not  
fkap : 4/18/2014 7:18 am : link
it'll be disappointing if Reese waits til round 4 to address the OL. The cupboard is thin even with the additions.
If Beatty/Snee don't bounce back and/or if Walton doesn't produce, there is currently no realistic hope of a decent line. Time to get real with replenishing the supplies.
Beatty  
stretch234 : 4/18/2014 7:33 am : link
He could make the Pro Bowl and the usual suspects will still think he sucks. He played well in 2011 and 2012. His contract was a market value contract at the time for a player not in the top 10 of his position. You can't offer 2-3M when the market calls for 7

What were the upgraded alternatives. Jake along received 1 offer because teams thought he was done. Who else was out there and better

Pat Kirwin is not the be all end all as far as opinion. He is 1 voice who is wrong plenty of times as well

How much better is Lewan than a guy who could be had in the 2nd. I am not an expert, but Martin looks better playing LT than Lewan does.

Is he a sure thing at LT - highly debatable. Do you use the 12th pick on that
Roto world has the terms of the beatty contract  
BarbieCarpenter : 4/18/2014 9:56 am : link
If he is cut after this season the cap hit is minimal as most of his guaranteed money was paid early. He's fine though. You need at least three starter quality offensive tackles on a team.
Beatty would count for  
YAJ2112 : 4/18/2014 10:12 am : link
7.5MM against the cap in 2015 if he's cut after the 2014 season. He counts for 8MM if he's still on the roster.
draft  
blue42 : 4/18/2014 10:15 am : link
Martin...if Beatty is not ready you have a LT.If Beatty is Ok
you have an otion for both guard spots.Some scouts think he can play center at a very high level as well.

Martins versatility along with his 1st round talent would really suit the Giants well.

Nice article about Martin stoning BBI favorite Donald.
Link - ( New Window )
1 OL pick would be a big disappointment  
D HOS : 4/18/2014 10:36 am : link
total SMH...
I liked Martin before but now  
Jimmy Googs : 4/18/2014 12:21 pm : link
we have an article suggesting Martin was able to block the "unblockable" Aaron Donald.

Now that is video we need to find for BBI...
Another great post  
jLefty : 4/18/2014 4:52 pm : link
Sy is the man!
good read  
area junc : 4/18/2014 5:50 pm : link
agree w/your take on robinson.....we really have no idea who will slip. robinson's kick slide is undeveloped right now and starting him at G is a good idea

RE: joel bitonio, he reminds me of one of my all-time favorites (richie seubert)..just a nasty mofo that plays like he's on PCP...praying he's still available in 2
Robinson would make a fantastic OG until he develops as a LT.  
yatqb : 4/18/2014 7:20 pm : link
I'd love him on our team, with him at LG and Schwartz at RG if Snee can't go.
Here's an article I wrote about Beatty's contract  
Optimus-NY : 4/19/2014 5:43 am : link
...


When is the earliest that the Giants can move away from the Will Beatty contract? - Thursday, December 26, 2013 - ( New Window )
Sy thanks for the list and comments, I've taken a look at a few of the  
BlueLou : 4/21/2014 4:07 am : link
OTs on tape and find your comments mostly spot on.

Despite several here whose opinions I highly value that value Martin clearly above Lewan, I don't see it. Martin is more consistent in some very laudable aspects of his game - most notably playing to the whistle and keeping his feet churning after he's locked up on a guy, and really playing a lot of his game on the defensive side of the LOS (ie he gets movement); but Lewan showed me nice ability to combo block, a fluidity on his feet on the move pulling and at the 2nd level, and an ability to control or at least influence defenders that are quite a distance from him with his long and strong arms and hands. I think either of them would be a fine choice at 12, either can play LOT, and either could move inside if Beatty someway steps up. I think either could start as a rookie.

I don't see Bitonio as "1 point" below Martin. He's not the same athlete on game tape and doesn't churn his feet or play to the whistle as Lewan and Martin both tend to do. I can see why people would want to move Bitonio inside. I think he's at best a David Diehl type of OL which is a good thing round two or later but I'd have a fit if the Giants drafted him in the 1st. CK deserves a lower rating than BIT, because just as you noted he's inconsistent, sometimes letting guys get pass rush pressure inside him (he seems fooled by moves) and he certainly doesn't play to the whistle like Lewan and Martin do. But his upside, as a dominant RT and maybe LT even after a few years of learning to bring his consistency of effort to an NFL level, makes me like him more than BIT as an OT prospect, if not as an OL prospect overall.

James did not impress me as much as he has you and some others here. Have not checked out Moses or Johnson yet, they interest me too. Skipped checking on Matthews altogether and looked only a bit at Robinson cause I don't see the Giants trading up unless they really want an OT round 1 and both those guys get gobbled up in the top 5...
Sy  
Joey in VA : 4/21/2014 6:17 am : link
I have to disagree with your take on Wesley Johnson outplaying Clowney by a landslide. Clowney was too quick for him against the run and Johnson was surviving by a hair in pass protection on most plays. I'm not sure how you drew that conclusion, he had help a LOT on the outside and the inside vs. Clowney. It appears you watched something totally different than I did
By a landslide???? - ( New Window )
DIsagree on Turner too  
Joey in VA : 4/21/2014 6:33 am : link
I see an athletic LT with good movement skills and athleticism. He's raw technique wise but he has a lot of physical ability.
Sy'56 owes Justin Pugh an apology.  
Big Blue Blogger : 4/24/2014 1:17 pm : link
From his 2013 OT Preview:
Quote:
Xavier Nixon – 6’6/321 – Florida: 73

Justin Pugh – Syracuse – 6’5/307: 72

David Quessenberry – 6’5/302 – San Jose State: 72

Nixon was waived in October. He's trying to rekindle his career as a guard. Quessenberry spent his rookie year on IR with a broken foot, although he reportedly had a good camp.

Hey, nobody said this stuff was easy, including Sy'56. His grades for Eric Fisher and Luke Joeckel, who may still develop into top-tier LTs, were 90 and 88.
Back to the Corner