DISCLCAIMER: I broke the OL previews in to two categories, guards/centers and tackles. This can be difficult to organize because a few of these guys have the skill set to play different positions. But keep in mind that versatility is part of their grade and I am grading these guys where I think they would best fit for NYG.
Current OT on the NYG Roster:
William Beatty – 29 – Signed through 2017
Justin Pugh – 24 – Signed through 2016
Charles Brown – 27 – Signed through 2014
Steven Baker – 26 – Signed through 2015
Tony Kropog – 28 – Signed through 2015
Where They Stand:
The Giants have a lot of question marks along the outside of the line. However, the performance of Pugh throughout his rookie season was admirable to say the least. He locked down the RT position and appears to already be the most reliable tackle this team has. The question surrounding him is, does he stay at RT? Or would NYG consider moving him over to the position he played in college, left tackle. Part of that discussion revolves around the healthy of Beatty, who is recovering from a broken leg that could linger in to the summer. Even if he does return healthy, has Beatty done enough to possess the most important position on this OL? He is locked up long term but that can’t sway the coaches in to putting him back in the starting lineup. He was a low level starter in 2013 and he could put a strict limit on how good this team can be. Beyond the two starters, NYG has little-to-no long term promise. Brown, Baker, and Kropog are replaceable right now. They shouldn’t sway NYG from making any draft weekend decisions at this position.
Top 10 Grades:
1 – Greg Robinson – Auburn – 6’5/332: 84
2 – Jake Matthews – Texas A& M – 6’6/308: 83
3 – Taylor Lewan – Michigan – 6’7/309: 82
4 – Zach Martin – Notre Dame – 6’4/308: 81
5 – Joel Bitonio – Nevada – 6’4/302: 80
6 – Cyrus Kouandijo – Alabama – 6’7/322: 77
7 – Morgan Moses – Virginia – 6’6/314: 77
8 – Wesley Johnson – Vanderbilt – 6’5/297: 73
9 – Antonio Richardson – Tennessee – 6’6/336: 72
10 – Ju’waun James - Tennessee – 6’6/311: 72
Day One Target:
Greg Robinson – Auburn
I would put the chances of Robinson falling outside of the top 8 at less than 50%, but I think the view on him around the league is very mixed. His top 5 potential didn’t really catch on until halfway through the college 2013 season, but scouts have been talking about him for a couple years now. When looking for the “blue goose” left tackle prospect, Robinson is the kind of guy that coaches/GMs want. He has the size and movement ability of the elite, once-every-three-or-four years guy. My issue with him is there will be a lot of development and learning that needs to be done prior to him being put outside. The Auburn scheme was VERY friendly to him, in that they ran the ball a ton and rarely asked him to play in a traditional pass blocking set up. When it comes to how he fits in with NYG, I actually think he could be an elite guard. Down the road he could make the move to left tackle, but that could take a year or two. If Robinson somehow drops to NYG, they could have themselves an All-Pro caliber guard right away as well as a future left tackle.
Runner Up: Jake Matthews – Texas A& M
Day Two Target:
Joel Bitonio – Nevada
The more tape I have seen of Bitonio over the best two months, the more I believe he can be a very good starter in the NFL. NYG needs to increase their power presence up front. They simply need the blue collar guys that want to beat people up and drive them through the ground, which is the approach I see out of Bitonio every time I put his tape on. There is some underrated athleticism to his game as well. His feet are light, he can easily bend at the knees while keeping himself upright, and he has a pair of heavy hands. Bitonio graded out as a first rounder for me, but I think he could be had in round 2. He would provide some position-versatility for a unit that has questions across the board. I am thinking NYG could have another Justin Pugh-type guy here, possibly even with more upside.
Runner Up: Morgan Moses – Virginia
Day Three Target:
Wesley Johnson – Vanderbilt
I’ve watched a lot of SEC football over the past few months. One tackle stands out every time he is on the screen, and it is Johnson. He won’t wow anyone with his movement or power, and he is a little undersized when it comes to his girth. But Johnson was as productive as any offensive tackle in the conference outside of Matthews/Robinson. There is some talk of him moving inside, but I don’t see why. He outplayed Clowney and Ealy by a landslide. He has 51 straights starts to his name, majority of which were at left tackle. He is a guy that knows the game, works hard, and consistently does the little things right. I think he can be a starter down the road once he adds some strength to his game.
Runner Up: Parker Graham – Oklahoma State
Most Overrated:
Billy Turner – North Dakota State
I think there are a lot of analysts that try too hard to label the diamond in the rough of a group from a small school. Many have been all over Turner because of his size/movement combination. But truth be told. Turner is a really bad lineman. He has minimal use technique with poor footwork and light hands. He is constantly chasing after pass rushers, rarely do you see him sit and anchor a position. I’ve seen his name in some 2nd round talk, and I don’t think he is a guy you take before round 6.
Runner Up: Antonio Richardson
NYG Approach:
Like the guards/centers, there is instability at offensive tackle right now. Pugh is solid, but I’ve never been a Beatty guy and last year almost shut the door on him. He may be the starter though simply because there is nothing else on the roster that could upgrade the position. I think his contract was very short-sighted and may have been one of the worst moves this front office has made in a long time. Despite him being signed long term, I think NYG needs to address this position early on. They can’t have any more repeats of what happened last year. Their entire offense was drugged down to a lower level because of the poor play up front. There will be an opportunity with one of their first three picks to bring in a nice value pick that could potentially contribute right away. In this deep overall draft class, I think we are going to see a tackle drop way beyond his actual ranking. NYG would be foolish to pass on him at that point. I still believe you could see Robinson or Matthews drop within striking distance. This unit needs to get back to dominant, consistent, reliable football. Their starting personnel and back ups can be replaced right now with some of these rookies.
If you draft Bitonio, put him at RG and leave Pugh at RT.
1-At the time it was signed, many here thought Beatty's contract was a fair one, in fact some felt it was a steal..
2-On DefenderDawg's thread, I saw where someone had Jake Mathews falling to us at 12.. Is that possible/probable and if so, your thoughts on us grabbing him?
I was hoping you'd get into this discussion since you've seen him. He looks a bit stiff, but size and feet-wise, he looks like an absolutely prototypical NFL tackle. Huge size.
I also like Johnson and James.
Well done.
This guy is an elite athlete for the position and he is a really good run blocker. I want him to use that more instead of trying to impress with textbook form. He can be a 10+ year starter in the league and a guy that teammates love to play with. I think he would do great for NYG.
This may sound off...but I am more confident in Matthews coming in and getting the job done. But I think Robinson has some special in him if he can learn the NFL game....at guard or tackle. I would be more confident in trading up for Matthews actually. Not sure that makes sense to you...but all the complication with the decision leads me towards thinking staying put at 12 may be the best route. Still tough to say without knowing exactly what went on prior to 12.
Set the record for career starts at Tennessee.
Seems the only reason he's not a fringe first-round pick is because he played right tackle with Antonio Richardson across from him. From watching both, I feel like James is right now the better tackle and player.
He has incredibly quick feet and gets into his stance quicker than most right tackles, especially the ones his size. He has a strong enough base to stand up to bull rushers as well.
His 3-cone was the fifth-best of all offensive tackles.
He's pretty impressive blocking in space also -- something I noticed on screens.
Ja'Wuan James Draft Profile - ( New Window )
Martin is a guy I like...and Iactually spoke highly of him in 2012. There was a chance he would come out and I thought he was a top 45 guy back then.
He reminds me of Pugh in that he can bring versatility to the table. Doesn't have the ideal size for OT but he can play there. He can play inside. Really good hands and balance. Rarely does he look like he is out of place and/or catching up. He would give NYG a lot of options to play with and thats something I think they need. This OL may be a really tough group to figure out between the injuries, age, and inexperience concerns.
I think Reese is going to like him and I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him be the #12 overall pick. He has enough quality tape to warrant the selection there. He just gets sloppy, really sloppy, at times. Not sure if there is a learning/mental/concentration issue or what. But keep in mind...everyone thought he was a top 5 lock for this draft at this time last year. Reese will get after guys like that....so even though I have him as a 2nd rounder, I think Reese may pull the trigger on him in round 1.
This. IMO Reese panicked. He had to know the line was not solid and IMO was hoping with his heart not his head Beatty would step up after that deal. I also think people here latched onto that PFF ranking Beatty so high after 2012 like it was definitive proof that Reese got a great deal. Maybe he bounces back but I think he's a LT that needs a lot of help. At 8 mil per that's a problem.
It was the inverse of the LJo situation. The vast majority here claimed LJo was elite, pay the man, don't let our young talent get away, while Reese said 'not gonna overpay'. With Beatty, there was significant difference of opinion as to whether he was good, bad, or indifferent and Reese said 'can't let this young talent get away' and backed up the money wagon to make it happen.
He's maybe 10th on the list of top-50 LT contracts.
It's a complete fantasy that the Giants were going to retain his services for 2.8-3m a year. It doesn't happen. Justin Pugh is making 2.0 on the second year of his rookie contract as a RIGHT tackle.
A 30 year old veteran stopgap like Donald Penn makes 4.8 and an average, injured LT like Sam Baker makes 6.4.
Will Beatty isn't making "elite dollars".
Joe Thomas, 11.5 (80.5)
D. Ferguson, 10 (60)
R. Clady, 10.5 (52.5)
T. Willams, 10 (60)*Rookie Contract
J. Peters, 9.5 (38.3)
R. Okung, 8 (48.5) *Rookie Contract
Here's Beatty's [7.5 (37.5)] peer group in terms of salary
Eugene Monroe, 7.5 (37.5m)
Sam Baker, 6.8 (41.1)
Jermon Bushrod, 7.1 (39.5)
LT: Pugh/backed up by Brown/Beatty
LG: Schwartz/Jerry
C: Walton/Ikard in Rd 6
RG: Snee/Mosely
RT: Bitonio or Mewhort backed up by Brown/Beatty
He's maybe 10th on the list of top-50 LT contracts.
It's a complete fantasy that the Giants were going to retain his services for 2.8-3m a year. It doesn't happen. Justin Pugh is making 2.0 on the second year of his rookie contract as a RIGHT tackle.
A 30 year old veteran stopgap like Donald Penn makes 4.8 and an average, injured LT like Sam Baker makes 6.4.
Because he's not a good tackle and was given a shitload of up front cash making a him uncuttable.
I don't care what all the arm chair GMs heer say or what the PFF stat geeks rated him at. I never was impressed. Pat Kirwan before 2013 stated he wasn't even a starter quality player. I didn't know that fopr sure but was very uneasy as I never thought he looked impressive. ever.
What I don't understand is how a guy who before last year had about 20 career starts keep insisting he's got some unassailable career where we can assume last year was the aberration and the norm.
Other Pat Kirwan positional faves from his 2009 mock:
OT Jason Smith (#2 overall) 27 years old, on his 4th NFL team
OT Michael Oher (#18) Still more known for his story, not his play
he's structured so that he was penciled in as the starter for 3 years, minimum. At a bare minimum, if you cut him in year 3 of the contract, it's basically even. After that, it's still serious cap hit to cut him. Cutting him this year isn't even an option.
you don't give someone that kind of signing bonus unless you figure he's going to be the anchor for a while.
He got one helluva deal. Hopefully, his issues this past year were due to the circus going on next to him, and let's face it, there was a major 3 ring circus to his right.
Coughlin said he wants him at 318 and did not rule out Pugh at LT. You do know that RTs are typically bigger than RTs, correct? You say Pugh is "light in the pants" but you are fine with him at RT? I think LT is probably his best position.
He impressed at the Senior Bowl.
Yes indeed at times that OL did play like they were drugged and I don't mean the LT kind.
Sy'56, might you guess as to how many OL picks the Giants will end up taking? I'd be happy with 3 total OL picks from rounds 2-5. Or 2 picks total if one of them is 1st round.
Beatty had a bad year and the leg injury but I just don't see anyone on our roster that is better than him at LT. Pugh played RT and I think most agree he did somewhere between good and very good but at RT not LT. Is his best position maybe OG or OC don't think it's LT in the NFL, however I also don't want to see him end up jumping from one position to another if at all possible. He gives another option not to force drafting another OT or OG high but his final position is also a factor for his future development.
Snee is a true wild card will he be physically ok and can he remain that way for a full season no one knows. How much longer can you count on him and have any of the young guys taken the bull by the horns to make the leap to NFL starter is another big question. The line play was not very good last but I still don't believe all the blame belongs only to the OL.
It's simple at 12 we have to hope one of the big three are there if not position and value just don't match for OT/OG in this draft. Last year Pugh was a reach for many of us but his ability to play several positions helped but at pick #12 you have to go BPA not most versatile.
I can't see him overlooking the group for more than 2 or 3 rounds.
If Beatty/Snee don't bounce back and/or if Walton doesn't produce, there is currently no realistic hope of a decent line. Time to get real with replenishing the supplies.
What were the upgraded alternatives. Jake along received 1 offer because teams thought he was done. Who else was out there and better
Pat Kirwin is not the be all end all as far as opinion. He is 1 voice who is wrong plenty of times as well
How much better is Lewan than a guy who could be had in the 2nd. I am not an expert, but Martin looks better playing LT than Lewan does.
Is he a sure thing at LT - highly debatable. Do you use the 12th pick on that
you have an otion for both guard spots.Some scouts think he can play center at a very high level as well.
Martins versatility along with his 1st round talent would really suit the Giants well.
Nice article about Martin stoning BBI favorite Donald.
Link - ( New Window )
Now that is video we need to find for BBI...
RE: joel bitonio, he reminds me of one of my all-time favorites (richie seubert)..just a nasty mofo that plays like he's on PCP...praying he's still available in 2
When is the earliest that the Giants can move away from the Will Beatty contract? - Thursday, December 26, 2013 - ( New Window )
Despite several here whose opinions I highly value that value Martin clearly above Lewan, I don't see it. Martin is more consistent in some very laudable aspects of his game - most notably playing to the whistle and keeping his feet churning after he's locked up on a guy, and really playing a lot of his game on the defensive side of the LOS (ie he gets movement); but Lewan showed me nice ability to combo block, a fluidity on his feet on the move pulling and at the 2nd level, and an ability to control or at least influence defenders that are quite a distance from him with his long and strong arms and hands. I think either of them would be a fine choice at 12, either can play LOT, and either could move inside if Beatty someway steps up. I think either could start as a rookie.
I don't see Bitonio as "1 point" below Martin. He's not the same athlete on game tape and doesn't churn his feet or play to the whistle as Lewan and Martin both tend to do. I can see why people would want to move Bitonio inside. I think he's at best a David Diehl type of OL which is a good thing round two or later but I'd have a fit if the Giants drafted him in the 1st. CK deserves a lower rating than BIT, because just as you noted he's inconsistent, sometimes letting guys get pass rush pressure inside him (he seems fooled by moves) and he certainly doesn't play to the whistle like Lewan and Martin do. But his upside, as a dominant RT and maybe LT even after a few years of learning to bring his consistency of effort to an NFL level, makes me like him more than BIT as an OT prospect, if not as an OL prospect overall.
James did not impress me as much as he has you and some others here. Have not checked out Moses or Johnson yet, they interest me too. Skipped checking on Matthews altogether and looked only a bit at Robinson cause I don't see the Giants trading up unless they really want an OT round 1 and both those guys get gobbled up in the top 5...
By a landslide???? - ( New Window )
Justin Pugh – Syracuse – 6’5/307: 72
David Quessenberry – 6’5/302 – San Jose State: 72
Nixon was waived in October. He's trying to rekindle his career as a guard. Quessenberry spent his rookie year on IR with a broken foot, although he reportedly had a good camp.
Hey, nobody said this stuff was easy, including Sy'56. His grades for Eric Fisher and Luke Joeckel, who may still develop into top-tier LTs, were 90 and 88.