As every parent knows and I am learning more rapidly than I'd like because of my 2 and 3 year old children, raising kids is damn hard. This is a thoughtful and useful article.
appears dead on. Giving a reward motivates the child to be self-interested.
But the claim that guilt is superior to shame is just valorizing Western Judeo-Christian cultures over non-Western shame-based cultures. That's just the writer's prejudice.
I think he also misses the most important point: modelling good behavior. You can tell your kid all the right things but if you are constantly yelling or screaming or you are a douche to other people, the kid is going to imitate that behavior, regardless of what you tell them.
So, really, the old chestnut that "the apple does not fall far from the tree" is probably more accurate than all the research done by education PhDs.
appears dead on. Giving a reward motivates the child to be self-interested.
But the claim that guilt is superior to shame is just valorizing Western Judeo-Christian cultures over non-Western shame-based cultures. That's just the writer's prejudice.
I think he also misses the most important point: modelling good behavior. You can tell your kid all the right things but if you are constantly yelling or screaming or you are a douche to other people, the kid is going to imitate that behavior, regardless of what you tell them.
So, really, the old chestnut that "the apple does not fall far from the tree" is probably more accurate than all the research done by education PhDs.
oi, I really disagree with you regarding shame vs. guilt. I think that shame is THE poison that leads people to act reprehensibly. When you feel that YOU are bad, you defend against that self-impression and then act in all sorts of damaging ways, from addictive behaviors, to angry, selfish or violent behaviors, to codependent behaviors and relationships, and on and on. Shame is essentially self-hatred, and in my experience as it is reduced (as in therapy) positive behaviors and skills emerge that the person was incapable of earlier.
unless you choose to define it as such. Perhaps a more neutral definition is better. We should be ashamed, for example, to wear shorts and a tee-shirt to our mother's funeral, since it is at variance with the appriate decorum for the occasion. Or to cuss in front of Grandma (unless it is appropriate in terms of your specific relationship), etc.
Too often, in modern America shame is thought of as hiding what's real in us, like the shame of being gay or something. While that kind of shame is pernicious, not all shame is.
I think we have different definitions of what shame is.
Shame, as I think of it, is "I'm bad", not "the thing I'm doing or have done is bad". Guilt is "the latter, by my definition. Being "ashamed" about wearing a t-shirt to a funeral could mean either.
not according to "me" vs. "my acts" but rather as what the basis is of the judgement. Shame-based judgments are largely internalizations of public attitudes, while guilt-based judgements are based on what are taken to be moral rules or principles, whether or not anybody is around to judge you.
The way the Psychologist distinguishes them in the article need not be the standard way to do so.
I do agree with the problems with rewards as motivation. But this seems kind of obvious, isn't it? At least it always has to my wife and me (maybe we got lucky).
not according to "me" vs. "my acts" but rather as what the basis is of the judgement. Shame-based judgments are largely internalizations of public attitudes, while guilt-based judgements are based on what are taken to be moral rules or principles, whether or not anybody is around to judge you.
The way the Psychologist distinguishes them in the article need not be the standard way to do so.
I do agree with the problems with rewards as motivation.
But this seems kind of obvious, isn't it? At least it always has to my wife and me (maybe we got lucky).
I would think of that as a distinction between "True Self" core beliefs, and societal norms, and agree with you that our internal sense of right and wrong is what is critical for us to follow.
The Holocaust might not have happened (Although it's a long shot given the power that some men had) if enough Germans listened to their true moral compasses rather than to socially acceptable standards.
> 85% generosity in role followers; that pretty much says it all.
If the parent both leads by example, and explains to a child WHY they did what they did, relative to moral conscious, the child will tend to be morally conscious as well; whether it be donating/sharing 1 of x# of coins, helping up a classmate who tripped and fell instead of laughing at them, or going back into the store when you give the clerk a $10 for a bill of $6.25, and you get back 3 qtrs, 2-$1s and a $5 instead of the 3rd $1.
You do it because its the right thing to do.
Trouble is, in these times, whether it is the 60% of kids born out of wedlock and only a single parent, or Miss Teenzilla's parents at the other end of the economic ladder, wreckless parenting produces wreckless kids, with an explosion of those first coming from the '60s peace and love crowd. Fortunately, though being one of those now boomers myself, that occasional'sit-down' and or slap upside the head or natural padding( in my late wifes case too)led us to be examples of good, which I/we saw in our offspring.
baby boomers are running the country now. Greed, corruption and moral reprehensibility are the norm in almost every facet of life involving boomers and has at every step of their generation's mark on our history. Maybe you could recognize that and stop trying to hold up your crappy upbringings as superior to the job being done now a days?
baby boomers are running the country now. Greed, corruption and moral reprehensibility are the norm in almost every facet of life involving boomers and has at every step of their generation's mark on our history. Maybe you could recognize that and stop trying to hold up your crappy upbringings as superior to the job being done now a days?
But the claim that guilt is superior to shame is just valorizing Western Judeo-Christian cultures over non-Western shame-based cultures. That's just the writer's prejudice.
I think he also misses the most important point: modelling good behavior. You can tell your kid all the right things but if you are constantly yelling or screaming or you are a douche to other people, the kid is going to imitate that behavior, regardless of what you tell them.
So, really, the old chestnut that "the apple does not fall far from the tree" is probably more accurate than all the research done by education PhDs.
But the claim that guilt is superior to shame is just valorizing Western Judeo-Christian cultures over non-Western shame-based cultures. That's just the writer's prejudice.
I think he also misses the most important point: modelling good behavior. You can tell your kid all the right things but if you are constantly yelling or screaming or you are a douche to other people, the kid is going to imitate that behavior, regardless of what you tell them.
So, really, the old chestnut that "the apple does not fall far from the tree" is probably more accurate than all the research done by education PhDs.
oi, I really disagree with you regarding shame vs. guilt. I think that shame is THE poison that leads people to act reprehensibly. When you feel that YOU are bad, you defend against that self-impression and then act in all sorts of damaging ways, from addictive behaviors, to angry, selfish or violent behaviors, to codependent behaviors and relationships, and on and on. Shame is essentially self-hatred, and in my experience as it is reduced (as in therapy) positive behaviors and skills emerge that the person was incapable of earlier.
The problem with shame alone (without moral reflection) is that it is too much based on social standards which themselves may be off.
Too often, in modern America shame is thought of as hiding what's real in us, like the shame of being gay or something. While that kind of shame is pernicious, not all shame is.
I guess what I am doing is trying to rehabilitate the term "shame" to note that a healthy sense of shame is not a bad thing at all.
The way the Psychologist distinguishes them in the article need not be the standard way to do so.
I do agree with the problems with rewards as motivation. But this seems kind of obvious, isn't it? At least it always has to my wife and me (maybe we got lucky).
The way the Psychologist distinguishes them in the article need not be the standard way to do so.
I do agree with the problems with rewards as motivation.
But this seems kind of obvious, isn't it? At least it always has to my wife and me (maybe we got lucky).
I would think of that as a distinction between "True Self" core beliefs, and societal norms, and agree with you that our internal sense of right and wrong is what is critical for us to follow.
The Holocaust might not have happened (Although it's a long shot given the power that some men had) if enough Germans listened to their true moral compasses rather than to socially acceptable standards.
If the parent both leads by example, and explains to a child WHY they did what they did, relative to moral conscious, the child will tend to be morally conscious as well; whether it be donating/sharing 1 of x# of coins, helping up a classmate who tripped and fell instead of laughing at them, or going back into the store when you give the clerk a $10 for a bill of $6.25, and you get back 3 qtrs, 2-$1s and a $5 instead of the 3rd $1.
You do it because its the right thing to do.
Trouble is, in these times, whether it is the 60% of kids born out of wedlock and only a single parent, or Miss Teenzilla's parents at the other end of the economic ladder, wreckless parenting produces wreckless kids, with an explosion of those first coming from the '60s peace and love crowd. Fortunately, though being one of those now boomers myself, that occasional'sit-down' and or slap upside the head or natural padding( in my late wifes case too)led us to be examples of good, which I/we saw in our offspring.
Popcorn! whew!
what you use is LOVE
Well said!