for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

NFT: 2 | New York Yankees vs. Tampa Bay Rays - Thurs. Ed

RasputinPrime : 4/17/2014 6:05 pm
NYY | (9-6)

1. Ellsbury, CF
2. Jeter, SS
3. Beltran, RF
4. Soriano, DH
5. McCann, CA
6. Solarte, 3B
7. Sizemore, 1B
8. Roberts, 2B
9. Suzuki, LF

SP CC Sabathia (1-2) 6.63 ERA

vs.

SP David Price (2-0) 2.91 ERA

1. Zobrist, 2B
2. Jennings, DH
3. Forsythe, LF
4. Longoria, 3B
5. Myers, RF
6. Rodriguez, 1B
7. Guyer, CF
8. Escobar, SS
9. Molina, CA

TBY | (7-8)
Pages: 1 2 3 <<Prev | Show All |
Mook - not sure who you're arguing with.  
Del Shofner : 4/17/2014 10:07 pm : link
I don't think CC is going to be dominant again. I said above that he is more of a game manager now, crafty if you will, and not an "ace." That said, he pitched a good game tonight. Should he be at the top of the rotation with this staff? That's Joe's problem. But credit where it's due, CC was decent tonight.
RE: Joe just isn't pitching him enough  
Del Shofner : 4/17/2014 10:08 pm : link
In comment 11626174 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
and he got fucked on balls and strikes. He's plenty ready for prime time.


well, I hope you're right. His stuff is fantastic.
and his ERA  
Phil in LA : 4/17/2014 10:11 pm : link
is still 0.00.
Solarte hits his first major league HR!  
Del Shofner : 4/17/2014 10:17 pm : link
10-2.
I was just thinking how it was gonna be hard for Yangervis  
Phil in LA : 4/17/2014 10:20 pm : link
to keep his OPS north of .800 without homers...
Solarte!  
Dave in Hoboken : 4/17/2014 10:20 pm : link
Roberts a HR away from the cycle. This is his chance, haha.
and let me say this...  
wigs in nyc : 4/17/2014 10:21 pm : link
I love this team's personality so far. Unpopular though it may be, I'm really enjoying not having A-Rod on this team.
Betances in again for the 9th -  
Del Shofner : 4/17/2014 10:24 pm : link
interesting. Throwing strikes now. First guy K's on 3 pitches.
ha - a 5 pitch inning for Betances there.  
Del Shofner : 4/17/2014 10:25 pm : link
Nice.
This pitching gives them a chance  
Kyle in NY : 4/17/2014 10:33 pm : link
Impressive to beat up on Price likes that as well. Maybe we've got something here...
Great win.  
Dave in Hoboken : 4/17/2014 10:37 pm : link
That was awfully fun to watch. Can't believe they smacked Price around like that. Good outing from CC, too.
CC barely hit 90 on his fastball  
xman : 4/17/2014 10:41 pm : link
but I guess he worked both sides of the plate with his slider change up and his new found cutter.
Nice win for the major league club...  
Dunedin81 : 4/17/2014 10:44 pm : link
minors swept the day too, with highlights including Judge's first HR and a Jake Cave night that included two triples and a double.
Cc looked like Mike Mussina out there  
B in ALB : 4/17/2014 10:46 pm : link
(puts on kevlar)

Hahaha
I loved this team's personality before they even played game 1  
djm : 4/17/2014 10:55 pm : link
Love the speed and outfield defense. The starting pitching looked good going in and now looks even better after a few weeks. And the BP arms look feisty and gutty out there. Need Robertson back.

The infield is getting by but we need a defensive first baseman with some pop in his bat. Tex doesn't have to be the 09 version but man we could really use a steadying presence at first. I hope he gets healthy but man the guy keeps on breaking down.

The outfield is nasty good. And Ichiro should be commended for accepting a super sub role here. He's been tremendous. I had him on the first plane out of here after last season...

Watching mook and jerseyjoe argue is fascinating. JJ is the biggest Pollyanna on Bbi while mook is extremely critical. It's a paradox. Mook makes good points even if some of those points are hard to stomach.
Also DBJ was 3-3 and is up to I think .367 on the year...  
Dunedin81 : 4/17/2014 10:58 pm : link
BaseballAmerica said the same thing Phil has been saying, that it starts with patience.

So far mostly good things on the farm, health still an issue (Campos, Heathcott and Bird still rehabbing) but of the guys who are playing at full strength the early indications are pretty encouraging.
RE: Mook - not sure who you're arguing with.  
MookGiants : 4/17/2014 11:02 pm : link
In comment 11626176 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
I don't think CC is going to be dominant again. I said above that he is more of a game manager now, crafty if you will, and not an "ace." That said, he pitched a good game tonight. Should he be at the top of the rotation with this staff? That's Joe's problem. But credit where it's due, CC was decent tonight.


Not arguing with anyone except for JerseyJoe. All good Del
Solarte being interviewed now with a coach translating.  
Del Shofner : 4/17/2014 11:03 pm : link
Seems like a good guy. Triple play ball (or maybe it's his HR ball) is going to his mother.
Pitching wins championships  
GmenDynasty : 4/17/2014 11:03 pm : link
And the early indications from spring training to the first 15 games have been overwhelmingly positive.

Tanaka looks to be a bonafide ace thus far. Pineda could be a heck of a pitcher too. CC is a smart pitcher who should be able.to reinvent himslf like Muss did. Pen looks strong and deep.

This team is going to be real exciting when the bats get in a groove.
Sizemore being interviewed - this was his first game at 1B ever  
Del Shofner : 4/17/2014 11:18 pm : link
at any level, and he makes a very good play to dig out the throw from Roberts. He said he saw the whole thing develop and had to catch that ball "at all costs" to complete the triple play.

CC was interviewed and basically said that after the Tanaka-Pineda dual shutout he didn't want to be the starting pitcher who let down. Where does that leave Kuroda - just speculation, but I'd think the Japanese press is having a field day with this ... who is the #1 Japanese pitcher on the Yanks? I bet Kuroda comes out with some fire in his eye tomorrow night.
Beltran interviewed too - he did not know that low fence  
Del Shofner : 4/17/2014 11:23 pm : link
was there, doesn't have a lot of experience in this park, plus with the dome (rather than outdoors) he felt he could not look away from the ball in flight. He is sore and will see how he feels tomorrow.
Pitching does not win Championships  
Phil in LA : 4/17/2014 11:56 pm : link
just ask the Atlanta Braves. You need both pithing and O.
it isn't pitching or hitting that wins championships  
RasputinPrime : 4/18/2014 3:28 am : link
it is healthy pitching and hitting. Look at the Rays rotation right now. If we stay healthy we are going to be in the mix.

Great win tonight. Finally smacked Price in the mouth and broke one off in their stadium.

Solarte just mashes at the dish. He's a keeper. He made some nice adjustments on off-speed pitches after his first two ABs tonight.
RE: Also DBJ was 3-3 and is up to I think .367 on the year...  
GIANTSr01 : 4/18/2014 8:26 am : link
In comment 11626253 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
BaseballAmerica said the same thing Phil has been saying, that it starts with patience.

So far mostly good things on the farm, health still an issue (Campos, Heathcott and Bird still rehabbing) but of the guys who are playing at full strength the early indications are pretty encouraging.


Obviously still early, but he's also got 14 BBs in 14 games and an OBP north of .500 and is starting to show some power (6 doubles already after 16 all last season).
Last year he was swinging from the heels...  
Dunedin81 : 4/18/2014 8:30 am : link
a big toe tap, so it was all or nothing. His HR total spiked from 3 to 11 but his doubles fell; he was swinging for the fences and getting a lot of warning track fly balls. That toe tap and the all-or-nothing approach seems to be gone this year.
I'm loving this team  
GMENGianni : 4/18/2014 8:33 am : link
They're very enjoyable to watch!
RE: Pitching does not win Championships  
GmenDynasty : 4/18/2014 10:58 am : link
In comment 11626304 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
just ask the Atlanta Braves. You need both pithing and O.


You need clutch hitting. Some of our best teams werent loaded with big boppers but guys who routinely delivered when it mattered most. Just ask the Cleveland Indians or ask theabsolutely loaded offesnive Yankee team that lost to Boston in 7.
Clutch  
Rob in NYC : 4/18/2014 11:01 am : link
Is a myth.
I'll tell  
xman : 4/18/2014 11:10 am : link
Reggie and Thurman
the Yankees lineup  
djm : 4/18/2014 11:13 am : link
in the mid to late 90s was stacked. Ridiculously stacked.
Yes, tell Reggie and his .679 OPS  
Rob in NYC : 4/18/2014 11:16 am : link
In 11 ALCS.
RE: Clutch  
GmenDynasty : 4/18/2014 11:20 am : link
In comment 11626732 Rob in NYC said:
Quote:
Is a myth.


People who say clutch is a myth usually haven't played many sports.

There are most certainly guys who raise their level of play when it counts most.
Clutch isn't a myth...  
Dunedin81 : 4/18/2014 11:21 am : link
it's just overstated. There are good logical and statistically verifiable reasons why certain people hit better in the postseason and especially in the late innings than others, including platoon splits, susceptibility to strikeouts (both of which presume that you're going to see specialists and strikeout pitchers in the late innings), etc etc. And then there are people who over statistically significant stretches of ABs simply outperform their peers and their own career averages, for whatever reason.
RE: RE: Clutch  
Rob in NYC : 4/18/2014 11:24 am : link
In comment 11626764 GmenDynasty said:
Quote:
In comment 11626732 Rob in NYC said:


Quote:


Is a myth.



People who say clutch is a myth usually haven't played many sports.

There are most certainly guys who raise their level of play when it counts most.


People who make assumptions about individuals they know nothing about are most often morons. That is a well-supported position with respect to your history, JJ.
RE: Clutch isn't a myth...  
Rob in NYC : 4/18/2014 11:27 am : link
In comment 11626765 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
it's just overstated. There are good logical and statistically verifiable reasons why certain people hit better in the postseason and especially in the late innings than others, including platoon splits, susceptibility to strikeouts (both of which presume that you're going to see specialists and strikeout pitchers in the late innings), etc etc. And then there are people who over statistically significant stretches of ABs simply outperform their peers and their own career averages, for whatever reason.


Almost always the label is applied to very good players who perform consistent with their career norms (which is to say very well, like Thurman or Reggie) or misapplied on the basis of selective memory. It is rarely applied correctly and rationally, and likely never by JerseyJoe.
clutch is certainly not a myth  
djm : 4/18/2014 11:47 am : link
guys like Bernie Williams brought their regular season average into the postseason and virtually maintained that same average, if not a little lower. BErnie hit as many or more HRs per at bat in the postseason. That's incredible. That shit doesn't happen often if ever. Hi Metro Dan, that post was for you. YEs, Bernie hit like a fucking animal in the postseason. Why? BEcause guys very rarely maintain their regular season production over such a long postseason run.

Clutch isn't a myth. But the Yanks still had stacked lineups.
I still remember that argument  
djm : 4/18/2014 11:51 am : link
and I still won't let it go. I was called foolish for saying that Bernie hit like an animal in the postseason. Then the number crunching guys cited his post season numbers and said that BErnie's postseason play was about the same as his regular season play. Thus, he didn't hit like an animal in the postseason? Wrong.

IF you are a B+ hitter in the regular season and you go on to be a B+ hitter in the postseason, you're a postseason stud. Period. The reason why the Yanks won 4 rings in 5 years was because many of their hitters brought their regular season success into the postseason and didn't forget how to hit. The reason why the won one title over the next 14 years was because those new sluggers did not hit in the postseason like they did in the regular season. IT's not easy to do. Hits don't come easy in the playoffs.
Bernie Williams  
Rob in NYC : 4/18/2014 11:52 am : link
Career OPS of .858, career postseason OPS of .850
Interesting definition  
Rob in NYC : 4/18/2014 11:53 am : link
Of "clutch", performing in a manner consistent with your prior level.
Rob  
djm : 4/18/2014 12:00 pm : link
I like to think of it as maintaining your production against stronger competition.

When you play well during the regular season you're an all star. When you play well in championship moments you're a legend. This applies to every sport. It aint rocket science. IT's harder to produce when the opponent is tougher. No?

I would think that the number of hits and runs scored is lower in the postseason compared to the regular season. But maybe I am wrong.
I think it falls it to the first category I mentioned  
Rob in NYC : 4/18/2014 12:04 pm : link
Great players playing great. Not sure I would call that clutch. Williams was an extremely productive post season player, but it didn't represent any anomaly to me because he was an extremely productive player over most of his career.

I think most fans define clutch as some level of performance above "normal" based on pressure. I think that is far more rare than the word is used,
RE: Bernie Williams  
GmenDynasty : 4/18/2014 12:22 pm : link
In comment 11626815 Rob in NYC said:
Quote:
Career OPS of .858, career postseason OPS of .850


facing much better pitching, so if its close to equivelent thats pretty damn good. Also see Duned81 definition on clutch . It's pretty spot on.
RDP makes the prospect hot sheet  
Dunedin81 : 4/18/2014 1:04 pm : link
...
Link - ( New Window )
CC may extend his career  
Jay in Toronto : 4/18/2014 1:14 pm : link
by craftiness like Petite did
I hate the talk  
PaulBlakeTSU : 4/18/2014 1:16 pm : link
of clutch nonsense, because all people want to do is shift goalposts.

There are so many different definitions of what a "clutch" moment is. Is it the entire postseason? What about players who have performed well in the postseason, but have struggled in high leverage situations in the regular season?
Are they clutch or not? You can find plenty examples of guys who were great in the World Series, but terrible in League Championship Series, which are the games played to determine who goes to the World Series. There are plenty of examples of guys whose performance in "late and close" games in the regular season don't match their performances in postseason games.

Are there some guys who are better under pressure, or who are better at shortening their swings to put it in play and battle? Sure. But, for the most part, "clutch hitters" are more the product of selective memory or the results of small sample sizes.
RE: CC may extend his career  
Dunedin81 : 4/18/2014 1:21 pm : link
In comment 11626965 Jay in Toronto said:
Quote:
by craftiness like Petite did


Or pharmaceuticals...
nice fangraphs article on Tanaka...  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 4/18/2014 1:49 pm : link
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/masahiro-tanakas-non-secret-weapon/

Mainly focuses on the fact that while Tanaka throws a lot of strikes and gets ahead in counts, he really doesn't throw in the strike zone all that often because hitters tend to chase his pitches outside of the zone anyway.

"Batters have swung at 65% of Tanaka’s splitters, even though just 32% of them have been in the zone."



He gets the K on a splitter in the dirt. The hitter had no chance to do anything on that swing.

So the obvious counter to a guy who throws so many pitches outside of the strike zone is to wait him out right? But that's what makes Tanaka special. He might not throw in the strike zone that often but he can if he wants to. So if you're going to counter by waiting him out, Tanaka will just counter by throwing in the strike zone more. He can still get swing and misses with his splitter in the strike zone.



Really liking his set of skills so far. I think he'll give up his fair share of Homers because he misses up in the zone at times. Being a righty in Yankee stadium won't help those HR numbers either. But that's really the only negative I see with him. I love the fact that his splitter has lived up to the hype. I was worried that it wouldn't be as good of a pitch in the MLB with the different ball and better hitters, but it looks as nasty as advertised. Great start to his career.
My concern  
PaulBlakeTSU : 4/18/2014 2:01 pm : link
will be how he adjusts as batters pick up on this and recognize his pitches better. This was the same problem that hurt Matsuzaka. But thus far, he has been fantastic.
RE: nice fangraphs article on Tanaka...  
GmenDynasty : 4/18/2014 2:03 pm : link
In comment 11627050 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/masahiro-tanakas-non-secret-weapon/

Mainly focuses on the fact that while Tanaka throws a lot of strikes and gets ahead in counts, he really doesn't throw in the strike zone all that often because hitters tend to chase his pitches outside of the zone anyway.

"Batters have swung at 65% of Tanaka’s splitters, even though just 32% of them have been in the zone."



He gets the K on a splitter in the dirt. The hitter had no chance to do anything on that swing.

So the obvious counter to a guy who throws so many pitches outside of the strike zone is to wait him out right? But that's what makes Tanaka special. He might not throw in the strike zone that often but he can if he wants to. So if you're going to counter by waiting him out, Tanaka will just counter by throwing in the strike zone more. He can still get swing and misses with his splitter in the strike zone.



Really liking his set of skills so far. I think he'll give up his fair share of Homers because he misses up in the zone at times. Being a righty in Yankee stadium won't help those HR numbers either. But that's really the only negative I see with him. I love the fact that his splitter has lived up to the hype. I was worried that it wouldn't be as good of a pitch in the MLB with the different ball and better hitters, but it looks as nasty as advertised. Great start to his career.


Great ,great analysis of Tanaka. He's looking every bit worth this big contract thus far.
RE: My concern  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 4/18/2014 2:12 pm : link
In comment 11627075 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
will be how he adjusts as batters pick up on this and recognize his pitches better. This was the same problem that hurt Matsuzaka. But thus far, he has been fantastic.


It's so early in process that it's hard to say for sure. But I think one big difference between Tanaka and Matsuzaka is Tanaka's control. Dice-K always struggled to throw strikes and walked a lot of guys. I mean the year he went 18-3 with a 2.90 ERA, Dice-K still walked 94 batters in 167 innings. An absurdly high rate for such successful season. Dice-K also walked a lot more guys in Japan.

Dice-K had a 3.2 BB/9 rate over 1400 innings in Japan
Tanaka had a 1.9 BB/9 rate over 1300 innings in Japan

I don't think Tanaka will fall victim to the same issues as Dice-K because he's a different pitcher. One that has always had better control.

I actually think when Tanaka struggles, it will be less about walks and more about hard hit balls when he leaves the ball up in the zone too much.
Pages: 1 2 3 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner