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Will Reese decide a huge need outweighs talent in round one?

wgenesis123 : 4/18/2014 6:19 am
If he does I believe the 3 big OT's plus Watkins and Evans will be off the board in picks 1 to 11. I don't believe he will take a TE in round one and Donald would be BPA not huge need. That makes the pick a small reach to Martin or a huge surprise to my mind. Pugh was a bigger reach last year than Martin would be. I know there are some good O-lineman expected to be available in round two, like Pugh was last year. If the 3 big OT's go in picks 1-10 than the possibility of a run on O-lineman before the end of round one is something Reese will have to consider. I think Reese will pick Martin.
I think it might be safe to say that the top 5 or 6  
Big Blue '56 : 4/18/2014 6:26 am : link
heavily discussed on the board will be at or near Reese's top tier..

It doesn't appear that the selection Reese will make if he, as expected, stays put at 12, could be a bad one, a "mistake." How 1-11 goes and anything unexpected could nab us a surprise

Unlike other years, my anxiety level as to the talent we select, is quite low, even non-existent..I am excited, however
DT  
scott in albany : 4/18/2014 6:44 am : link
is a big need. We lost joseph.
A reach is someone  
Carl in CT : 4/18/2014 6:53 am : link
Who will be there 10 picks later. I don't think JR will be reaching. Everyones draft board is different. I don't think there is that much different between Martin and Lewan. Was Pugh a reach? Some might say so and he graded better then the top three OL drafted. Just trust JR. If he fucks up another draft he will pay dearly.
Scott  
wgenesis123 : 4/18/2014 6:53 am : link
As a Donald fan I would like to believe that is a huge need too. Reese has to believe in himself and that means believing in Hankins to step up and play. I think the real need on the D-line is a pass rusher and that is where I retain hope for Donald.
I think their belief in Hankins is as strong  
Big Blue '56 : 4/18/2014 6:55 am : link
as it was in Joseph
At comparable stages  
Big Blue '56 : 4/18/2014 6:56 am : link
.
Carl  
wgenesis123 : 4/18/2014 7:00 am : link
I have never heard a reach defined as specifically 10 spots or more before. That is interesting.
Big Blue  
wgenesis123 : 4/18/2014 7:04 am : link
Good point on the similiar stages. Reese must have done the same before and it worked out fine with Joseph. Why would he feel differant now?
Didn't Hankins get far more snaps  
Big Blue '56 : 4/18/2014 7:10 am : link
than LinJo did in his rookie year? I seem to recall LinJo hardly dressed his first year
Big Blue  
wgenesis123 : 4/18/2014 7:17 am : link
They both were pretty invisible to me. But I have this memory of Hankins highlights from college where he tossed running backs around like rag dolls. I would love to see some of that translate to the next level. I don't see anyone in this draft not named Donald going ahead of him on the depth chart.
Linval Joseph or....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 4/18/2014 7:24 am : link
....William Joseph?
I remember William  
wgenesis123 : 4/18/2014 7:43 am : link
but this is Linval.
Any GM worth his salt  
I Love Clams Casino : 4/18/2014 7:58 am : link
thinks long term...always the BPA....always..
Donald is a 3....Hankins is a 1  
George from PA : 4/18/2014 8:01 am : link
But no matter what happen in the 1st....should be good....as the 2nd.
Way too much talent.....the key to the draft.....is the 3rd and 4th round.


To address this question
Reese always weighs need....but it must be in same grouping of talent and value. I suspect Martin and Donald are in the same range..talent wise....but there are more OL in this draft....so #3DT has more value
I don't think Martin is a reach at all at #12  
Jimmy Googs : 4/18/2014 8:08 am : link
his well-discussed versatility along the O-line is a huge plus that in my opinion trumps anybody considering him "just" the 4th best OT or "just" a Guard.

Giants would be fortunate to get him...

Martin and Bitonio are the two ol that can play inside and outside.  
Ira : 4/18/2014 8:11 am : link
I think Martin will be there in the first round. I have a suspicion that Bitonio won't be there when we pick in round 2. That's why I think Reese will take Martin.
DT is a huge need, even if Hankins effectively  
BlueLou : 4/18/2014 8:44 am : link
Replaces LJ. Jenkins is 33 and Patterson 31-2? and not all that great. We have no idea how Kuhn will play either.

DT is a huge need, just after OL.
I've seen Martin rated all over the place  
Jay in Toronto : 4/18/2014 8:53 am : link
but still would be somewhat safe vs reach even at #12
Let's see what  
AnishPatel : 4/18/2014 9:15 am : link
Ross decides. The pressure is on him and Reese for this draft. Our drafts have gone down hill, and we can't swing and miss on draft prospects like we have in past drafts because our sense of urgency is high to add talent to the offense.
What happens if only 1 qb is taken, and tampa takes Donald?  
damondog : 4/18/2014 9:22 am : link
now ebron is available, do you think Reese has a higher grade on ebron than Z. Martin?
Only they  
AnishPatel : 4/18/2014 9:29 am : link
know that. Hopefully Donald is taken early. As far as TE vs OL, that comes down to who they have higher. I would be happy with either guy. I like Martin more. I think he is that Tom Coughlin, interchangable part type OL. He can play OT or OG, and with guys like David D, and Boothe who used to be versatile I think Martin fits that mold.
Donald or Martin...  
M.S. : 4/18/2014 9:37 am : link

...can't go wrong!

I think Donald is going to be a star!

And Martin will give a huge boost to the worst O-line in the NFL.

Flip a coin.

NOPE!  
ImaGiant86 : 4/18/2014 9:38 am : link
BPA, and if it happens to fit a need it's a win-win. 1st round needs to be a home run.
No...  
M.S. : 4/18/2014 9:38 am : link
...Eric Ebron!

No.
I think the Top 3 OTs will be gone by 12  
doncam : 4/18/2014 10:16 am : link
However, in our draft row don't be surprised if Cyrus K. was the selection at 12. He would be our LT for the next 10 years. If Cyrus and Donald are there for us at 12, it will be an interesting choice.
Reese with this offseason has put us in much better position  
GmenDynasty : 4/18/2014 10:51 am : link
To go glaring BPA vs higher need. Donald has a chance to be not just slight BPA but BPA by a considerable margin.

Couple that with the very highly graded OL that are STILL likely to be there at 43 and its almost a no brainer.

Further we can likely still get a good WR third round and a TE fourth round like Joe Don Duncan Arthur Lynch or Crockett Gilmore.

No need to give up the value of a Donald with our FA and the depth of this draft.
I think you guys are missing tghe point......  
Doomster : 4/18/2014 11:11 am : link
You are all worried about the #1 pick.....what you should be worried about are the picks after #1....
of course he will  
GMenLTS : 4/18/2014 11:13 am : link
he always reaches for needs in round 1...
RE: of course he will  
GmenDynasty : 4/18/2014 12:25 pm : link
In comment 11626749 GMenLTS said:
Quote:
he always reaches for needs in round 1...


Reaches? His round 1 picks have been stellar outside of perhaps Aaron Ross (when maybe he should have went Joe Staley). And even Ross contributed to two Super Bowl wins.
Sarcasm is too complex as well I guess..  
GMenLTS : 4/18/2014 12:28 pm : link
..
Would we really classify Pugh  
Jan in DC : 4/18/2014 1:00 pm : link
as a reach last year? Seemed like he wasn't someone that the fans wanted, but the pundits had him going in our range.

I think that our DT rotation will be ok this year, even if we don't draft a DT high. Hankins, Jenkins, Kuhn, Patterson, with Ayers or JPP moving inside on pass rushing downs.
Stapleton's thoughts  
sphinx : 4/18/2014 1:45 pm : link
Art Stapleton ‏@art_stapleton 5m
While I'm not yet sold, I would not be shocked if #NYG went OL double w/ Zack Martin at 12 + keep options open for Weston Richburg at 43

Art Stapleton ‏@art_stapleton 2m
The more research this draft, the more I think about present + future needs for #NYG, more it becomes apparent OL projects not the way to go

..................  
sphinx : 4/18/2014 1:46 pm : link
Art Stapleton ‏@art_stapleton 2m
You can if you watched the Giants last season "@Base718: @art_stapleton I can't see a way that Reese goes OL with his first 2 picks"

Thanks for those tweets sphinx  
Curtis in VA : 4/18/2014 1:52 pm : link
I don't think they will go OL twice, back to back like that, but it will definitely come early I'm sure.

I also think Donald makes a lot of sense. His presence as a pass rusher to me becomes even more important when you consider that our edge rushers leave much to be desired right now. There is no Osi or Strahan or 2011 JPP right now.
Stapleton  
sphinx : 4/18/2014 1:53 pm : link
Art Stapleton ‏@art_stapleton 3m
This idea of teams "reaching" for players is absurd. Based on mock drafts and the opinions of a few "experts?"

Is there any DE that is worthy of a #12 pick this year?  
The Duke : 4/18/2014 1:54 pm : link
I have seen everything discussed from OL, WR, TE, CB, DT but never a DE, other than Clowney, mentioned. While I admit I am no expert on the draft, is there no other DE rated high enough for a #12 pick this year? Does Reese have a "sleeper" DE (like JPP) he might be considering at this spot if some of the more notable selections are already gone? With Justin Tuck in another uniform and nobody particularly high on the Robert Ayers signing this seems like a big need to me.
..................  
sphinx : 4/18/2014 1:56 pm : link
Art Stapleton ‏@art_stapleton 1m
A reach because of his reach "@davidrsoffer: @art_stapleton people should remember that some considered Pugh a reach cause of his arm size"

Martin is a "reach" only in the sense  
oipolloi : 4/18/2014 2:03 pm : link
that the Giants could likely trade back to 18 and still get him. But if he is the guy they want and there are no trading partners, then taking him at 12 is the logical choice. You don't bypass him simply because he would not be the next guy off the board.

I don't want Martin because I don't think he can play either LT or RT, and I don't believe in spending the #12 pick on a Guard. But if the Giants evaluate him as an OT, then they should pick him if the other OTs are gone.
OL remains the biggest need.  
Red Dog : 4/18/2014 2:04 pm : link
I agree that the DT rotation will be OK with the guys they have now, or possibly with another free agent addition like Kevin Williams.

But they absolutely, positively must protect the franchise QB.

Beatty remains questionable both for the quality of his play to date (especially last season) and for his return from the injury. The current back ups at OLT (C. Brown, John Jerry, Goodin, etc.) do not exactly inspire confidence. And there is no decent backup Center on the roster, either. If anything happens with Walton, well, I don't want to think about it.

Here's another possible scenario that nobody has mentioned. A QB or two (Teddy?) slides way down, the three top OTs, Evans, and Ebron are all gone by pick 12 and the G-men decide they don't want OL Martin or anybody else available at that point. The GIANTS could trade down well into the first round, gain another second rounder and probably a later pick, too, and take Center Weston Richburg who would sit behind Walton and learn for a season or two before taking over as the starter.

He is pretty much the consensus top Center in this draft, a position that is not deep at all. Recent rumors have him going higher than everybody thinks, kind of like the Center the Cowflops drafted in the first round last spring.

And more importantly, the GIANTS have not bothered to sign another veteran Center. There were guys out there for the taking, and they were unable to re-sign Boothe. So there's a big hole there to fill with not much after Richburg in this draft. But there are plenty of OTs, WRs, and DLs, as well as a couple of TEs to be had on the second day.

So then they could come back with two picks in the second and one in the third to address OT, WR, TE, DL, or whatever.

I am not saying that this is going to happen. I still think they want Ebron or Evans, but I think there is a very good chance that they are both gone by pick 12. However, this is one more scenario that could play out depending on how they evaluate the possibilities and what happens with the first 11 picks.
The Giants have pretty sizable needs everywhere except S and CB.  
Riggies : 4/18/2014 3:05 pm : link
Both immediate and beyond this season.

In no small part due their own recent efforts, Reese & Co really have a very wide range of positions to choose from and still be able weight filling a need heavily (not that they've ever been strict BPA anyway).
Question about the Pugh Pick  
Percy : 4/18/2014 3:28 pm : link
Who gets the credit for finding him and rating him so highly that he was the first Giants pick last year? Whoever that was, I would suppose, will be listened to very carefully about OL players available this year. Anybody have any insight into this?
I hope they draft a corner in round 1  
ANGPASS : 4/18/2014 4:28 pm : link
We won the last 2 superbowls when we did that. lol. Can the draft come already. It feels like chewing gum for too long that the flavors gone.
RE:  
ImaGiant86 : 4/18/2014 4:30 pm : link
In comment 11627082 Red Dog said:
Quote:


Here's another possible scenario that nobody has mentioned. A QB or two (Teddy?) slides way down, the three top OTs, Evans, and Ebron are all gone by pick 12 and the G-men decide they don't want OL Martin or anybody else available at that point. The GIANTS could trade down well into the first round, gain another second rounder and probably a later pick, too, and take Center Weston Richburg who would sit behind Walton and learn for a season or two before taking over as the starter.


Yeah, because nobody has mentioned a trade down.
Evans or Ebron  
jLefty : 4/18/2014 4:40 pm : link
Still think these guys will make a bigger impact.Randle Jernigan and Cruz is ok but Eli needs another big threat. OL in two.
86, the point is not the trade down, it's taking Richburg  
Red Dog : 4/18/2014 4:43 pm : link
before somebody else grabs him.

If the behind the scenes rumors are valid, he probably won't be there for them in the second round. And he's the closest thing to a blue chip Center in this draft.
I like the idea of trading down to get a good offensive lineman,  
wgenesis123 : 4/18/2014 5:00 pm : link
I also think the extra pick gained could garner another player for the O-line. Its just so hard to picture Jerry Reese trading down that I have little hope of it happening. Reese is of the George Young school of standing pat and waitning for the draft to come to you. I know he has made a few trade ups in the latter rounds but he is definetly no Trader Joe.
Remember  
scott in albany : 4/18/2014 5:42 pm : link
Jenkins is going to turn 34 this year.
I'll take a 'reach'  
fkap : 4/18/2014 5:52 pm : link
like pugh any day of the week.

I used to be a BPA kind of guy. It makes sense. pretty much any position is a player of need. Watching this team deteriorate as it has makes me rethink that. Need absolutely must factor into the pick. We NEED OL. desperately. Reach, reach, reach, to get a T/G. within reason. It doesn't matter if he gets picked 10 spots early. IF you think a guy will be a legitimate asset to the team, it doesn't matter if he would be available later in the round. IF you can't get a decent offer to trade down and IF he won't be available in the next round, pick him.
fkap  
wgenesis123 : 4/18/2014 5:59 pm : link
I am kind of leaning the same way, problem is I really want Donald. I really hope that Martin does not end up blocking Donald two times a year against the Cowboys. But if he does and he does it for the Giants I can live with that. Really don't want to though.
Fkap  
wgenesis123 : 4/18/2014 6:11 pm : link
Which scenario do you think favors the Giants of the following two. Giants draft Martin and Cowboys draft Donald or Giants draft Donald ands Cowboys draft Martin. Its a fans question but one of the two could play out in the draft.
RE: Is there any DE that is worthy of a #12 pick this year?  
CGiants07 : 4/18/2014 8:25 pm : link
In comment 11627065 The Duke said:
Quote:
I have seen everything discussed from OL, WR, TE, CB, DT but never a DE, other than Clowney, mentioned. While I admit I am no expert on the draft, is there no other DE rated high enough for a #12 pick this year? Does Reese have a "sleeper" DE (like JPP) he might be considering at this spot if some of the more notable selections are already gone? With Justin Tuck in another uniform and nobody particularly high on the Robert Ayers signing this seems like a big need to me.


this guy clowney would be worthy of 12th pick
I can only hope  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 4/19/2014 2:13 am : link
that Evans and Ebron are picked before #12. IMHO, they represent two of the highest bust-potential picks in the draft.
We have several needs  
Randy in CT : 4/19/2014 8:19 am : link
that should match with BPA pretty damned well at 12. 43 even. OT, DT, WR, TE among others will work out pretty well with our first 2 picks.
the threads question presents a false dichotomy  
alligatorpie : 4/19/2014 8:42 am : link
'talent' will be available at 12.

the sneaking suspicion is that, in the mind of the threadster, 'talent' is a WR, not a larger type player.

which is just silly at 12, especially this year.

to me - its a system and you want parts that work, each in its turn, start with the fundamentals this year.

keep Eli on his feet at all times and knock the opponent off his.
bleacher report and a name we remember, albeit not a giant  
alligatorpie : 4/19/2014 8:52 am : link
''Years: 1988-2001

Teams: Minnesota Vikings, Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Achievements: Nine All-Pro selections, Hall of Fame (2009)

It doesn't matter than he never won—or even appeared in—a Super Bowl. McDaniel was the best interior lineman of his era.

From the moment he reached the NFL in 1988, he missed only two games, and beginning in 1990, didn't miss a single start until he left the game in 2001. That type of durability is vital for any offensive lineman.

But durability isn't what earned him a spot in Canton. He routinely drove bigger defensive tackles off the ball so that Robert Smith, Randy Moss and Cris Carter could become stars and Randall Cunningham, Jeff George and Warren Moon could enjoy greatness in their twilights. ''

- now that's what I am talking about.
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