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Looking back What do you think of Kerry Collins?

Route 9 in LEH : 4/18/2014 6:57 pm
I Was going through some old clothes and found his jersey that I probably last worn since 2003 and I laughed to myself because the first thing that popped into my head was 2000 NFC championship game vs Minnesota (41-0) and the second was the Super Bowl. It's been discussed on here many times that if the Giants won in 2000 Fassel would've been here longer and we wouldn't get Eli/Coughlin and yada yada.

My opinion on Kerry is a positive one. Good memories and bad ones. But when he was on, he was dangerous. Best memory is the 02 game vs the Colts where he had a perfect passer rating. Another favorite was the drive vs Seattle in 2001 late in the season. What about you?
First decent QB since Simms  
RobCarpenter : 4/18/2014 7:01 pm : link
But folded badly when pressured.
Accurate and fairly reliable…….  
Simms11 : 4/18/2014 7:04 pm : link
he got us to a Super Bowl too.
Brought the franchise back to relevancy  
armsteadeatslittlekids : 4/18/2014 7:05 pm : link
after a long, dark period. I think if you come away with negative feelings about his Giants career, you probably weren't watching the football and quarterbacking that took place for years before his arrival.
Always  
ctc in ftmyers : 4/18/2014 7:05 pm : link
have been a Kerry fan. We got to the Super Bowl with. You can't win them all.
and I mean overall negative feelings  
armsteadeatslittlekids : 4/18/2014 7:06 pm : link
like negative outweighing the positive.
..  
SanFranGiantsFan : 4/18/2014 7:08 pm : link
After Maddox, Brown, Kanell, & Graham, Collins was like Unitas.

If you had a good OL protecting him, he was lethal.
I'm biased....  
Hades07 : 4/18/2014 7:12 pm : link
...I knew him in college and couldn't stand him. So my memories of him won't be positive. It was really hard for me to root for him. Chalk it up to the laundry winning out.
^^^Agreed  
Sec 103 : 4/18/2014 7:13 pm : link
But that choke job in SB XXXV... no good
RE: I'm biased....  
RobCarpenter : 4/18/2014 7:16 pm : link
In comment 11627614 Hades07 said:
Quote:
...I knew him in college and couldn't stand him. So my memories of him won't be positive. It was really hard for me to root for him. Chalk it up to the laundry winning out.


Everything I've heard about him as a person is that he's a world class prick.
feels like  
Mr. Nickels : 4/18/2014 7:18 pm : link
forever since he's been a Giant.

I was a huge fan of his at Penn State and loved the signing.

It almost got us a championship.
A few thoughts  
Matt M. : 4/18/2014 7:18 pm : link
1) I thought he was good. He had some great games, but overall was just good.

2) He returned the franchise to contention.

3) He didn't choke in the Super Bowl. Fassel and Payton did. They had a terrible gameplan of doing nothing but looking deep and didn't waver until it was much too late.
He threw a nice deep ball...  
okiegiant : 4/18/2014 7:19 pm : link
I was unhappy when he was signed but he grew on me over time.

As proud of him as any NYG  
mort christenson : 4/18/2014 7:20 pm : link
He matured and became a very good person.
liked him as a Giant  
jsboston : 4/18/2014 7:22 pm : link
it was nice having a real quarterback again.

in comparison i only have one good memory each of brown and graham (brown trucking prime time and graham to toomer)
RE: RE: I'm biased....  
Hades07 : 4/18/2014 7:23 pm : link
In comment 11627622 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
In comment 11627614 Hades07 said:


Quote:


...I knew him in college and couldn't stand him. So my memories of him won't be positive. It was really hard for me to root for him. Chalk it up to the laundry winning out.



Everything I've heard about him as a person is that he's a world class prick.
That would be a nice way to put it.
I admire Collins for his ability to overcome his alcoholism...  
Milton : 4/18/2014 7:25 pm : link
He went from being a jerk to being a guy who demonstrated a lot of character.

As for his football acumen, he was a front-runner with a great arm. If things were going good, he could be deadly; but when things were going poorly, he became part of the problem (I'm talking about on the field, not in the locker room). He had poor pocket awareness and couldn't be trusted to audible at the line of scrimmage.
RE: A few thoughts  
Sec 103 : 4/18/2014 7:28 pm : link
In comment 11627628 Matt M. said:
Quote:
1) I thought he was good. He had some great games, but overall was just good.

2) He returned the franchise to contention.

3) He didn't choke in the Super Bowl. Fassel and Payton did. They had a terrible gameplan of doing nothing but looking deep and didn't waver until it was much too late.

Sorry dude he came out ascared of that Baltimore D....
Strong arm  
Peter from CT : 4/18/2014 7:36 pm : link
No touch.

Didn't have the brain for the NFL game.
Strong arm. Very accurate in the pocket. Threw a great out pass.  
Marty in Albany : 4/18/2014 7:38 pm : link
If forced out of the pocket he could not run to his right and complete a pass. He would be lucky to get to the right sideline without being tackled. If forced out of the pocket to his left, he generally fell down.
RE: RE: RE: I'm biased....  
RobCarpenter : 4/18/2014 7:50 pm : link
In comment 11627643 Hades07 said:
Quote:
In comment 11627622 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


In comment 11627614 Hades07 said:


Quote:


...I knew him in college and couldn't stand him. So my memories of him won't be positive. It was really hard for me to root for him. Chalk it up to the laundry winning out.



Everything I've heard about him as a person is that he's a world class prick.

That would be a nice way to put it.


I'm glad I never met him.
Had the arm of Johnny Unitas  
Upstate_Giants_fan : 4/18/2014 7:57 pm : link
and the mental quickness of Jethro Bodine.
RE: RE: RE: I'm biased....  
Sonic Youth : 4/18/2014 8:11 pm : link
In comment 11627643 Hades07 said:
Quote:
In comment 11627622 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


In comment 11627614 Hades07 said:


Quote:


...I knew him in college and couldn't stand him. So my memories of him won't be positive. It was really hard for me to root for him. Chalk it up to the laundry winning out.



Everything I've heard about him as a person is that he's a world class prick.

That would be a nice way to put it.
can you elaborate on this? I always thought he was a good guy
He was good.  
Rolyrock : 4/18/2014 8:12 pm : link
I don't blame the SB loss on him. Had zero time to throw. He did his job right when given a little time to throw. He lit it up some games.
Like the rest of us,  
Hades07 : 4/18/2014 8:20 pm : link
he has probably grown up since then. A lot of the players on that team were jerks, with a few noticeable exceptions. Most interactions I had with that team, players and coaches, left a sour taste in my mouth. One of my favorites was after throwing one of the players out a window for attempting to force himself on one of my friend's little sister, we got a visit and lecture from Joe about the importance of the football team to this school. What a load, he walked into somebody's room without an invite, in a part of the house that was roped off and sticks his penis in an 18 year old freshman's face and Joe is worried about the football team. Ask Joe why his football team was getting wasted at our house the Friday night before a game.
Had an arm like Nolan Ryan  
xman : 4/18/2014 8:23 pm : link
but could not read defenses at all. Said he didn't audible as that was not part of his game. Add to that his lack of mobility and you have a very flawed QB
Sonic  
Hades07 : 4/18/2014 8:31 pm : link
He was exactly what you would expect from a drunk star QB in college. Arrogant jerk who thought he and his team were the most important thing on campus and could have anything they want. Nothing really surprising, and I shouldn't hold it against him as he likely grew up since then. However, that is what I remember of him and it sticks. We had a lot of the same friends, so we found ourselves in the same place often. Also helped that at the time the team preferred to come to our house on the weekends, both before and after games.

Which is funny they brought recruits there, we never showed them preferential treatment, more often the opposite.
By far the best arm of any Giants QB  
JOMO25 : 4/18/2014 8:41 pm : link
I've seen. Could put it in a key hole if you gave him time (but lack of mobility meant time was an absolute necessity).
I think there are some comps  
JOMO25 : 4/18/2014 8:47 pm : link
between him and Josh Freeman (arm talent, massive guys, not only w/ height but strength -- unlike say Eli who could use a few visits to the weight room, also two guys with careers at a cross-roads).
My fav Giant  
Grey Pilgrim : 4/18/2014 8:49 pm : link
the years he was in NY.

He was definitely a step up from the qb's before him.  
Ira : 4/18/2014 8:57 pm : link
I didn't think he handled a pass rush very well.
less mobile Jay Cutler  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 4/18/2014 9:12 pm : link
step up from the junk before him but significantly below Eli.
The one play that defined every thing wrong with Collins....  
Milton : 4/18/2014 9:18 pm : link
I forget what down it was and who the Giants were playing, but they had the ball on their opponent's 5 yard line and were in shot-gun formation. Tiki went in motion and lined up wide right like a WR. The defense showed an obvious blitz up the middle and nobody went over to cover Tiki. Tiki started waiving his arms to get Collins's attention before the snap, but Collins was too focused on the blitz he was seeing right in front of his face.

So, okay, he didn't see the wide open Tiki, but at least he saw the blitz, right? Well a lot of good it did him because not only did they get to him, but he fumbled and it was picked up and run 90 yards for a TD. Fortunately, the refs blew the call and said it wasn't a fumble, but really it was.

And that play summed up in my mind all that was wrong with Kerry Collins.
Hell of an arm  
Dave in PA : 4/18/2014 9:21 pm : link
one of the "prettiest" deep balls I've ever seen. Total statue and not great pocket awareness. Considering the bums he replaced, he was quite a breath of fresh air and did provide an absolutely awesome 2000 NFCC, which I was lucky enough to attend.
Adequate.  
Red Dog : 4/18/2014 9:36 pm : link
.
Considering we got him off the trash heap  
IIT : 4/18/2014 10:10 pm : link
when we couldn't even manage mediocrity at quarterback, he was great.

But I never felt he was the answer. His pocket immobility makes Eli look like Vick and he had a real gift for fumbling the snap at the worst moment possible without even the faintest hope of recovering it.

Had a big-time arm though. I've been a fan since before Simms and no Giants QB could throw a 25-yard laser like Collins.

Bottom line, I was happy when we moved on.
First QB I believed in since XXV...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/18/2014 10:12 pm : link
Agree with most of the comments here, but the funny thing is iirc he really had troubles getting the ball in the end zone from inside the 20. Not sure if that was for his entire tenure here or just near the end. I remember being really frustrated with it and how it got better after Eli was in.

Of course that would have brought a whole new offensive system in, so maybe I'm just remembering wrong.

Anyway - I do not blame him for the SB loss, and definitely do not consider that a choke job. To me considering that game a choke job on his part means that he SHOULD have won that game. I just never felt that way after watching the Ravens the whole playoffs. I was thrilled with how we handled Minny, but who really expected that kind of performance? Not me.

The Ravens were incredible that year, better than we were defensively, and deserved to win. End of story.
Milton: That sound painfully like the Mark Simoneau sack...  
Big Blue Blogger : 4/18/2014 10:13 pm : link
... In the fourth quarter. Of the 2003 game Westbrook won with a punt return. Unfortunately, the fumble counted. That was also the day N.D.Kalu snapped Richie Seubert's leg in half. Good times.

Collins was pretty bad that year, but he hung tough for a long time behind an offensive line that made the 2013 unit look good by comparison. The comeback against Dallas on Monday night was pretty remarkable, considering the circumstances. Can't blame Collins for the bizarre way they blew the lead. With a few breaks in games like that one - and especially the playoff meltdown in San Francisco - he might be remembered more positively.
was finally a QB capable of easing the evil memory  
WeatherMan : 4/18/2014 10:28 pm : link
that was Tommy fuckin Maddox blaspheming the QB position against the damned Eagles.

Loved his performance in torching the arrogant Vikings on that field of painted mud, and to this day hate how Fassel had such an incompetent game plan against the Ravens. There was a way to at least have a shot in that game - make it all about field position. Win the toss, kick off and let the defense bury Dilfer. Get the ball on the short field, chip the edge rushers, work the screen game and if they stop you pin em deep on the punt and do it again. Turn it into a grind out slugfest and maybe, just maybe, win 12-9. Field position had to be priority numbers 1 through 3, followed by putting Dilfer through the ground. Instead we just got run the fuck over. And the penalty on Hammer was BULLSHIT!
RE: ..  
AcidTest : 4/18/2014 10:29 pm : link
In comment 11627600 SanFranGiantsFan said:
Quote:
After Maddox, Brown, Kanell, & Graham, Collins was like Unitas.

If you had a good OL protecting him, he was lethal.


This.
I  
AcidTest : 4/18/2014 10:31 pm : link
also agree with those who said he had limited pocket awareness, and wasn't good at reading defenses. He was flawed in that regard, but had a strong arm, and threw a gorgeous deep ball.
I would like to note  
WeatherMan : 4/18/2014 10:36 pm : link
that of the bad group of post Simms QB's, most at least had a redeeming moment. Dave Brown trucked Deion Sanders, for that alone he has my gratitude. Kent Graham knocked off the 14-0 Broncos. Even Danny Kanell had a nice OT win over Detroit. Tommy Maddox though, that piece of trash inspired the one and only "We want Cherry" chant at Giants Stadium for the 3rd string never-was Mike Cherry, he was that damned horrific. Really high on the list of most loathed players to have ever worn the uniform.
Agree with some of the guys here  
JerseyCityJoe : 4/18/2014 10:41 pm : link
Had one of the best deep throwing arms in the league. When he had time to setup, he would drop the long ball right in stride. Very pretty. However when he was forced from the pocket he was just awful.Ugh. Not the brightest guy either.
He was the worst type of QB  
oipolloi : 4/18/2014 11:09 pm : link
Good enough to make you think you could win with him, but not good enough to actually ever win.

Always made big mistakes at crucial moments. A lot of his "numbers" were put up in garbage time, especially with the Raiders.
RE: was finally a QB capable of easing the evil memory  
an_idol_mind : 4/18/2014 11:48 pm : link
In comment 11627845 WeatherMan said:
Quote:
that was Tommy fuckin Maddox blaspheming the QB position against the damned Eagles.

Loved his performance in torching the arrogant Vikings on that field of painted mud, and to this day hate how Fassel had such an incompetent game plan against the Ravens. There was a way to at least have a shot in that game - make it all about field position. Win the toss, kick off and let the defense bury Dilfer. Get the ball on the short field, chip the edge rushers, work the screen game and if they stop you pin em deep on the punt and do it again. Turn it into a grind out slugfest and maybe, just maybe, win 12-9. Field position had to be priority numbers 1 through 3, followed by putting Dilfer through the ground. Instead we just got run the fuck over. And the penalty on Hammer was BULLSHIT!


One potential problem with that plan was that the kicking units both sucked ass in 2000. I don't think relying on Brad Maynard would have got the team very far.
I think about Kerry Collins in the Super Bowl vs Baltimore...  
SHO'NUFF : 4/19/2014 12:01 am : link
then I think about Eli in the NFCCG at San Francisco...

Thank God for Eli and his pair of BIG BLUE BALLS!
to add, a smart QB like Eli probably would've saved Sean Payton's job  
SHO'NUFF : 4/19/2014 12:10 am : link
soaking it up like a sponge and running it like a well oiled machine....Kerry? duh...uh...huh?
May have loved the bottle bit  
Kulish29 : 4/19/2014 12:14 am : link
man could be throw a loaf of bread into a hungry families basket of groceries.
god Damn my large hands and this iphone  
Kulish29 : 4/19/2014 12:17 am : link
Bit=but, be=he
I guess Collins will always take his share of hits on BBI for the  
wgenesis123 : 4/19/2014 1:19 am : link
super bowl loss to Baltimore. I thought Collins was a good QB, not great, who at times looked great. Unfortunately at times he looked like crap too. Could make some pretty throws to his left down the sideline with deadly accuracy. The important thing about Collins is he made the Giants a better team.
Hades 07  
Blackbeard : 4/19/2014 1:20 am : link
How about giving us some data re your background with Kerry Collins?
How do we know whether or not to believe your stories?
Did he whip your ass at some time?
Solid Giant  
trueblueinpw : 4/19/2014 2:36 am : link
Always remember him fondly.
for the record,  
SHO'NUFF : 4/19/2014 3:06 am : link
I was in the Keep Kerry and draft Sean Taylor camp...obviously, we all know why I am not employed by the New York Football Giants.

who was it that always called him "Lurch"?
RE: Hades 07  
Hades07 : 4/19/2014 4:49 am : link
In comment 11627951 Blackbeard said:
Quote:
How about giving us some data re your background with Kerry Collins?
How do we know whether or not to believe your stories?
Did he whip your ass at some time?
background is simple, and mentioned before. We went to Penn State at the same time and didn't like each other. I don't care if you believe my stories. Unless you count the couple of times I had to kick him out of our house, we never got into an altercation.
RE: liked him as a Giant  
Great White Ghost : 4/19/2014 5:49 am : link
In comment 11627639 jsboston said:
Quote:
it was nice having a real quarterback again.

in comparison i only have one good memory each of brown and graham (brown trucking prime time and graham to toomer)
True, but Kent Graham did slay a dragon.Nobody thought he could be beat at the time.
RE: Like the rest of us,  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 4/19/2014 6:18 am : link
In comment 11627734 Hades07 said:
Quote:
he has probably grown up since then. A lot of the players on that team were jerks, with a few noticeable exceptions. Most interactions I had with that team, players and coaches, left a sour taste in my mouth. One of my favorites was after throwing one of the players out a window for attempting to force himself on one of my friend's little sister, we got a visit and lecture from Joe about the importance of the football team to this school. What a load, he walked into somebody's room without an invite, in a part of the house that was roped off and sticks his penis in an 18 year old freshman's face and Joe is worried about the football team. Ask Joe why his football team was getting wasted at our house the Friday night before a game.


I guess the world finally found out about the great Saint Joe. How did Paterno keep such a phony fine reputation for so long, what a hypocrite.
This topic comes up every few months  
Gary from The East End : Admin : 4/19/2014 6:24 am : link
It's always funny to see BBIers who say things like "he was terrible" or "he couldn't win". In the four years he was the beginning of the year starter for our team, the Giants went to the playoff twice and the Superbowl once. And, had the Giants defense not folded like a cheap card table in SF, it could easily have been twice to the Superbowl.

Let me also point out that KC did this at a time when talent at the offensive skill positions was pretty thin on the ground out in The Meadowlands. Tiki Barber, Amani Toomer, Shockey in '03, the oft-injured Ike Hilliard and then a whole lot of nobodies, busts and scrubs.

Giants  
bc4life : 4/19/2014 6:39 am : link
didn't have the O-Line or the receivers to beat that "All World" Raven defense.

Collins was an upgrade. Kind of an ingrate though. Giants resurrected his career, then when they brought in Eli and they wanted him to serve as a mentor - he responded with the "I ain't no f**king babysitter" comment. Maybe, but the Giants ain't no f**king Betty Ford center...
Collins  
stretch234 : 4/19/2014 6:57 am : link
Flawed - absolutely. He did give us an expectation that we could win any game we played. The previous years gave us none of that

I still am of the belief that they were going to beat TB and go to the SB. That offense was just dialed in.

Collins would have stayed  
Gary from The East End : Admin : 4/19/2014 7:04 am : link
He just didn't want to take a pay cut, which is understandable, given the circumstances.

He was 31 years old, still in the prime age for a QB, and it made no sense for him to hang around (at a discount) and mentor Eli when it was clear there was no future as a starter for him in NY.

And, to be fair, there's no way that Kerry could have survived in Coughlin's complex, multiple read offense. He just didn't have the mental horsepower for it.
not the sharpest knife  
natefit : 4/19/2014 7:26 am : link
but did the best he could with what he had
his obit or wiki  
alligatorpie : 4/19/2014 8:07 am : link
should read:

'' stopped being an asshole and an alcoholic with the help of a stable situation and the decency, honesty and support of the giants organisation ''


which says very good things about the mara and tisch families and (good old jim fossil?)
footnote  
alligatorpie : 4/19/2014 8:18 am : link
blew the fucking doors off san fran in a playoff game
Impressive turnaround for a guy that  
Jimmy Googs : 4/19/2014 8:39 am : link
had hit the skids. Collins was also what the Giants needed as well at the time...somebody who could anchor down the QB position for a few years.

bad superbowl aside...
RE: This topic comes up every few months  
Montreal Man : 4/19/2014 8:43 am : link
In comment 11627998 Gary from The East End said:
Quote:
It's always funny to see BBIers who say things like "he was terrible" or "he couldn't win". In the four years he was the beginning of the year starter for our team, the Giants went to the playoff twice and the Superbowl once. And, had the Giants defense not folded like a cheap card table in SF, it could easily have been twice to the Superbowl.

Let me also point out that KC did this at a time when talent at the offensive skill positions was pretty thin on the ground out in The Meadowlands. Tiki Barber, Amani Toomer, Shockey in '03, the oft-injured Ike Hilliard and then a whole lot of nobodies, busts and scrubs.


Yes, yes and yes.
Underrated by many on BBI  
Some Fan : 4/19/2014 9:39 am : link
in the same way Dave Brown is overrated by some on BBI.

KC also had an undefeated season at PSU and pretty good success with his NFL teams.

Always liked Kerry  
Vin R : 4/19/2014 9:41 am : link
underrated IMO
The Giants were instantly better...  
KingBlue : 4/19/2014 10:15 am : link
when Kerry took over. He was alot better than many give him credit for. Big time arm. He played in the NFL for 16 years....obviously Kerry had talent.

I always liked him and always was optimistic about our chances to win with him under center. Couldn't make the same statement about the QB's that preceded him.
there's no reason for any true fan to strongly dislike him  
jnoble : 4/19/2014 11:20 am : link
After the mediocrity and weekly up-and-down disappointment and uncertainty of the Dave Brown/Kanell/Graham years, Kerry was a breath of fresh air. When given protection he could shred a defense and make it look easy. He helped take us to a Superbowl with his epic 41-0 destruction of the Vikings. Sure, he wasn't perfect...crumbled under pressure and I never liked his slack-jawed "Duh?" expression after throwing a stupid INT. But he had the accuracy and touch Brown never had, the and the arm strength Kanell never had.

I was also on Team Draft Robert Gallery And Keep Collins that year. Good thing I was wrong.
That caught in the headlights in Kerry's face  
xman : 4/19/2014 11:21 am : link
reminded me of Craig Morton
He was an above average QB  
JonC : 4/19/2014 11:25 am : link
Howitzer for an arm, could make all the throws including that perfect deep ball, and could get absolutely white hot at times.

Unfortunately, he frequently struggled to read defenses and once he got hit or felt bodies at his feet, his eye level quickly dropped as did his performance and confidence levels.

Given Fassel's known lack of preparation as a head coach, I do think Collins suffered from it to an extent we'll probably not know for sure.
Some Fan  
jnoble : 4/19/2014 11:26 am : link
I don't recall many people around here, even 20 years ago, overrating Dave Brown. He was a punching bag on a weekly basis in the early BBI days. The only props he got was knocking over Deion on a QB scramble. The sad thing is that Brown's best games as a Giant were mostly in losses when the defense folded late in the 4th quarter and spoiled it. There was an early game in '97 against the Testaverde Ravens that we pretty much had won until the D folded like a cheap suitcase in the 4th quarter and cost us the game. Brown was good that day. I was furious.
JonC  
jnoble : 4/19/2014 11:28 am : link
I always wondered how much Bill Romanowsky breaking Kerry's jaw early in his career played into his fear of getting hit
jnoble  
JonC : 4/19/2014 11:31 am : link
Agreed.
Props to kc  
RIZZBIZZ : 4/19/2014 11:50 am : link
He didn't become Ryan leaf
There was no doubt he was a jerk at PSU  
Section331 : 4/19/2014 12:01 pm : link
and his early NFL years, Collins admitted as much. However, it is almost universally claimed that he really turned his life around after quitting drinking. So much for second chances.

As far as QBing goes, sure, he wasn't going to solve Beal's conjecture, and he did have trouble when pressured, but he was immeasurably better than the guys who played the position before him. Great arm, good accuracy - he made the Giants relevant again. I have very positive memories of Collins. His performance in the NFC Championship game is my favorite Giants Stadium moment.
Nicely put, Gary  
Moondwg : 4/19/2014 1:00 pm : link
.
He was a hell of a drinker  
PatersonPlank : 4/19/2014 1:04 pm : link
.
RE: Some Fan  
RobCarpenter : 4/19/2014 2:23 pm : link
In comment 11628189 jnoble said:
Quote:
I don't recall many people around here, even 20 years ago, overrating Dave Brown. He was a punching bag on a weekly basis in the early BBI days. The only props he got was knocking over Deion on a QB scramble. The sad thing is that Brown's best games as a Giant were mostly in losses when the defense folded late in the 4th quarter and spoiled it. There was an early game in '97 against the Testaverde Ravens that we pretty much had won until the D folded like a cheap suitcase in the 4th quarter and cost us the game. Brown was good that day. I was furious.


People overrated Dave Brown? How is that even possible? Worst GY decision ever as a GM, and he had plenty in the 90s. Picking Strahan was an aberration.

Dave Brown may be a nice person but he was in my opinion the worst Giants' QB ever.
Good, at times great, but....  
Crispino : 4/19/2014 2:40 pm : link
seemed to have trouble sustaining the high level of play. Certainly no bum as some seem to think.
Good stuff  
Route 9 in LEH : 4/19/2014 4:42 pm : link
He took the Giants to the Super Bowl and had a great arm. Great points about what we had, or lack of, prior to Collins.
a couple  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/19/2014 9:06 pm : link
of BBI interviews with Kerry...
Q&A: Quarterback Kerry Collins - ( New Window )
second interview  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/19/2014 9:07 pm : link
...
Q&A: Quarterback Kerry Collins - ( New Window )
Speaking of Kerry Collins...  
JB in NJ : 4/19/2014 9:35 pm : link
the '03 playoff debacle in San Fran was on NFL network this afternoon. I always watch it - kinda like how you have to take a look at a car crash.

Never ceases to amaze me what a perfect storm of screw-ups were made in that game. That horrific missed call on the pass interference at the end was just the icing on the cake.

And I had forgotten that f-ing Ron Winter was the ref for that game. I'd have hated him even more over the years if I had remembered that.
Marty's description of Collins' ability is dead on.  
GeofromNJ : 4/19/2014 11:14 pm : link
But the mention of Collins with Fassel as coach brings to mind two decisions made by Fassel that cost the Giants when Collins was behind center. If Fassel had given Strahan a series or two off in the 2nd half of the 2003 playoff game against the 49ers, I think the Giants win the game because Strahan would have had the ability to chase down Garcia. I remember Strahan repeatedly motioning to the sidelines, begging to be taken out of the game because he could barely breathe.

The second poor decision was the 2000 Super Bowl. If Fassel had played Garrett after the Ravens knocked Collins out of the game, I think we win it. For the remainder of that game Collins had happy feet and repeatedly missed open receivers because he was throwing the ball way too soon. The Giants offense was better than the Ravens defense in my opinion, but it needed a quarterback who could stand in the pocket and wait for the play to develop.
RE: Underrated by many on BBI  
shabu : 4/19/2014 11:39 pm : link
In comment 11628101 Some Fan said:
Quote:
in the same way Dave Brown is overrated by some on BBI.

KC also had an undefeated season at PSU and pretty good success with his NFL teams.


Who the hell overrates Dave Brown LOL
Better than expected for a team looking for a QB  
The Tempest : 4/20/2014 10:41 pm : link
He did the best he could with what he had to work with. He was looking to resurrect his career after Carolina and he succeeded. He came to the Giants with a lot to prove and he did while also overcoming his own demons.
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