and triple teamed much of last year. Besides he looked jumping and picking up tennis balls in shorts...
The mock drafts are suck of joke. How does the QB from Louisville go from a top 2 pick and top QB picked to a second round pick in the latest mocks? He looked great on tape and now he drops?
the excuse a lot of people give is that he was doubled and received extraordinary attention for a college defender. But we've seen a lot of great DL prospects over the years who receive a ton of attention while also maintaining strong production.
He's just such a stud physically but I think Watkins and Mack are both better prospects than him. I agree with the media about the high ceiling. That's undeniable. But I think his bust potential is a little bit higher than the media thinks.
Players stock fall in the media as the media gets more access
Before draft season, its just draft 'experts' spouting their analysis.
But rather than say "I was wrong and had X player valued too high/low", media types like to say they were right but now the player is "dropping" or "rising".
Clowney received more attention than any defender of the past 10 years?
I think that could be true which is why it's silly to just look at the 3 sacks. He was clearly doubled a lot and had an impact on his team even if his individual stats weren't great. But we've also seen DEs in the past who receive a lot of attention (maybe not as much as Clowney) and still make a ton of splash plays.
Clowney received more attention than any defender of the past 10 years?
I think that could be true which is why it's silly to just look at the 3 sacks. He was clearly doubled a lot and had an impact on his team even if his individual stats weren't great. But we've also seen DEs in the past who receive a lot of attention (maybe not as much as Clowney) and still make a ton of splash plays.
I do, though Suh was up there as well in terms of media attention.
Looking back at the last 10 years, the five best defensive prospects coming out of college (IMO) were Suh, Sean Taylor, Patrick Peterson, Von Miller, and Eric Berry. Clowney gets more pub than any of those guys received, with Suh being the possible lone exception.
The funny thing is that the media explosion happened after a play where he came completely free and had a clear kill shot on a running back. About a month before that in South Carolina's 2012 regular season finale, Clowney had an incredible 4.5-sack performance against Clemson and you didn't hear a peep about it nationally.
But I absolutely agree with you that he also received more media attention than any other college defender.
He's the only college defender in recent memory who was a pre-season Heisman candidate. Suh built towards that as the season went on.
But in terms of respect and attention given to him by the opposing offenses, would you say Clowney ranks #1 among recent college defenders (especially DLineman)?
But I absolutely agree with you that he also received more media attention than any other college defender.
He's the only college defender in recent memory who was a pre-season Heisman candidate. Suh built towards that as the season went on.
But in terms of respect and attention given to him by the opposing offenses, would you say Clowney ranks #1 among recent college defenders (especially DLineman)?
Who was Clowney's teammate and friend told me Clowney didn't want to risk an injury last year and miss out on money he desperately needed to support his family.
Lattimore basically said Clowney didn't want a repeat of his situation where he was rated pretty high got injured and fell to the 6th Round.
Talked to Mike Mayock at the East West Shrine game and he told me the exact same thing.
Who was Clowney's teammate and friend told me Clowney didn't want to risk an injury last year and miss out on money he desperately needed to support his family.
Lattimore basically said Clowney didn't want a repeat of his situation where he was rated pretty high got injured and fell to the 6th Round.
Talked to Mike Mayock at the East West Shrine game and he told me the exact same thing.
I think that explains a lot, he would have been the #1 pick in last year's draft. He'll bring it on Sundays.
Aaron Donald faced double and triple teaming all year
As the only player on the Pittsburg defense...with teams knowing that Donald was the main focus of their efforts...and was still despite the attention able to put up monster statistics...10 sacks and 29.5 tackles for losses...what most impress my about Donald is what opposing coaches are saying...see comments from Notre Dame coach Brian Kelly and GT coach Paul Johnson who had to account for Donald...in video below...
The point here is simple...forget the fantasy nonsense...5 years from now assuming he is health...Aaron Donald will be seen as the #1 defensive player from the 2014 draft not Clowney...and am glad the Giants are picking @12 and not higher in which there would be temptation to try to move up to take Clowney...who has all the talent in the world...but with a questionable desire and motor ..personal I would take Donald over Clowney straight up...and think Clowney will disappoint as a pro while Donald will exceed expectations assuming he stays healthy Aaron Donald A Football Story - ( New Window )
Hands down the #1 defensive player in the draft and I believe he is better prospect then Suh who was seen as a once in every ten year player...the point that I was trying to make is Clowney has the potential to be a disappointment since he doesn't work hard and has a questionable desire and a motor...no such worries with AD...
Hands down the #1 defensive player in the draft and I believe he is better prospect then Suh who was seen as a once in every ten year player...the point that I was trying to make is Clowney has the potential to be a disappointment since he doesn't work hard and has a questionable desire and a motor...no such worries with AD...
No player is a certainty. Look no further then Aaron curry from a few yrs back. Was supposed to be the safest pick of the entire draft but was cut just a few yrs after being drafted. That's why I don't take a very strong stance about any particular college player anymore... just don't know for sure how they'll transition.
I just hope some team in the top 11 is stupid enough to select him so that he pushes a better prospect down to the Giants. We don't want another situation like with Lawrence Phillips, where the Giants, selecting at #5, assumed a team in the top four would select LP. But nobody did and so the Giants lost out on their shot at either Rice, Hardy, or Ogden.
and triple teamed much of last year. Besides he looked jumping and picking up tennis balls in shorts...
The mock drafts are suck of joke. How does the QB from Louisville go from a top 2 pick and top QB picked to a second round pick in the latest mocks? He looked great on tape and now he drops?
Mock drafts are only a joke because they all canibalize one another... Tajh Boyd was in the Top 10 of several mocks and he is awful... Bridgewater was never a top 10 talent... He never dropped because he was never there to begin with... It wasnt his Pro Day... This is just the mocks playing catch up... Clowney, on the other hand, was the #1 pick in 2014 from the day he set foot on SC campus...
That would be funny, because the Rams were the same team that was stupid enough to take Lawrence Phillips, but I think Jeff Fisher knows enough about defense to know that you don't win with slugs like Clowney.
Hopefully there's at least one team in the top eleven that still doesn't get that it takes more than talent to be a winner. All you need to know about Clowney's future in the NFL can be summed up in this one highlight.
Pass on him in this draft at your own peril. He's got Julius peppers written all over him at the very least. He's too good. Unless his legs fall off he will earn 5 pro bowls in his sleep.
And comparing Clowney to Lawrence Phillips is laughable
Phillips was a total loon. Not a fair comparison at all. He wasn't the player Clowney was. Not by a longshot. And he was a total piece of shit off the field.
but I'd be very nervous about drafting him top 5 with that kind of production. If I were a gm and it was a choice between Clowney and Matthews or Clowney and Watkins, etc, I'd pass on Clowney.
What do you mean he wasn't the player Clowney was? They played different positions, so you can't compare their athletic abilities, but Lawrence Phillips was widely considered the best player in the 1996 draft; it was only character issues which caused him to drop.
From wikipedia...
Quote:
With his strong performance, Phillips was drafted sixth overall in the 1996 NFL Draft by the St. Louis Rams despite his considerable character issues; several teams with higher picks let it be known that they passed on him due to his off-the-field troubles. He was widely expected to be selected by the new Baltimore Ravens with the fourth pick to fill their vacant running back position. However, they decided to select the best available player regardless of position and selected future eleven time pro-bowler and future Pro Football Hall-of-Famer Jonathan Ogden. During the draft, ESPN analyst Joe Theisman stated in regard to Phillips: "Everybody's called him the best player in the draft." The Rams thought so highly of Phillips that on the same day of the draft, they traded his predecessor, Jerome Bettis, to the Pittsburgh Steelers.
Sure, their character issues are different, but at least Phillips could claim to have shown production throughout his college career, culminating with a 165 yard rushing day and three TD's in the National Championship game victory.
The bottomline is that as athletic as Clowney is, he doesn't love the game of football and is only in it for the money. Players like that don't win championships, they get coaches and GM's fired.
Based on the history of the draft, Clowney will likely (hopefully!) get drafted in the top ten. And based on history, the team that drafts him will regret the decision. And either their head coach or their GM or both will be fired in a couple of years.
Hands down the #1 defensive player in the draft and I believe he is better prospect then Suh who was seen as a once in every ten year player...the point that I was trying to make is Clowney has the potential to be a disappointment since he doesn't work hard and has a questionable desire and a motor...no such worries with AD...
Donald reminds me a lot of Warren Sapp. Especially the part where the Giants never considered drafting him.
Cultists saw during the season to formulate his lofty status as HOF type DT.
Not ready to put the guy in Canton but it's hard to deny that he was the best defensive player in college ball last year, not Clowney.
I don't doubt the kid can play and was great last year but in this very thread he was compared to Sapp. He's also touted as a future star as a certainty but Clowney's detractors keep mentioning that all players have risks and sometimes don't pan out. You can't have it booth ways and claim your guy is a surefire star but then point out the warts of another player.
Again, I'd love to know how many of the Donald stalwarts even heard of him before 2 months ago.
RE: RE: Would love too know how many games all the Donald
Hands down the #1 defensive player in the draft and I believe he is better prospect then Suh who was seen as a once in every ten year player...the point that I was trying to make is Clowney has the potential to be a disappointment since he doesn't work hard and has a questionable desire and a motor...no such worries with AD...
Go watch him play his FR and SO year... The guy was unstoppable much like Donald was this year. The difference being is Donald is short and light for the NFL. While that may not matter in the the long run it does matter when it comes to risk factors. You see what happened was Clowney was so good they were talking maybe he shouldn't play this year since he couldn't be drafted and just sit out. Basically just work out and do nothing for a year. That all he has to do is not get hurt and he will be the number one draft pick. He slacked off, took it easy, got out of shape, and then got dinged up. He still drew the same crazy attention that Aaron Donald did not nearly see compared to Clowney. He also was playing in the SEC against a tougher schedule not Pitt's ACC schedule.
You take the guy that is prototypical perfect size, speed, quickness, strength, etc. who slacked off at first because of all the hype he was getting. Since he realized he couldn't just slack off he has been getting in much better shape and is ready to dominate the NFL. Donald at 285 and only 6' is riskier playing inside with taller heavier NFL OGs.
So they are both good players... Clowney will much less risk and much more upside. If they both stay healthy I think they both will be good and Clowney will be one of the best. Suh by the way was dominate in size also. Donald is nothing like Suh.
What do you mean he wasn't the player Clowney was? They played different positions, so you can't compare their athletic abilities, but Lawrence Phillips was widely considered the best player in the 1996 draft; it was only character issues which caused him to drop.
From wikipedia...
Quote:
With his strong performance, Phillips was drafted sixth overall in the 1996 NFL Draft by the St. Louis Rams despite his considerable character issues; several teams with higher picks let it be known that they passed on him due to his off-the-field troubles. He was widely expected to be selected by the new Baltimore Ravens with the fourth pick to fill their vacant running back position. However, they decided to select the best available player regardless of position and selected future eleven time pro-bowler and future Pro Football Hall-of-Famer Jonathan Ogden. During the draft, ESPN analyst Joe Theisman stated in regard to Phillips: "Everybody's called him the best player in the draft." The Rams thought so highly of Phillips that on the same day of the draft, they traded his predecessor, Jerome Bettis, to the Pittsburgh Steelers.
Sure, their character issues are different, but at least Phillips could claim to have shown production throughout his college career, culminating with a 165 yard rushing day and three TD's in the National Championship game victory.
The bottomline is that as athletic as Clowney is, he doesn't love the game of football and is only in it for the money. Players like that don't win championships, they get coaches and GM's fired.
Based on the history of the draft, Clowney will likely (hopefully!) get drafted in the top ten. And based on history, the team that drafts him will regret the decision. And either their head coach or their GM or both will be fired in a couple of years.
Did you not see him his FR and SO year... Pure dominance from him. He slacked off doesn't mean he doesn't love the game. He is much like JPP really. JPP slacked off after his big year. The difference is I think they both have had a wake up call and both will be great again.
RE: RE: Would love too know how many games all the Donald
Cultists saw during the season to formulate his lofty status as HOF type DT.
Not ready to put the guy in Canton but it's hard to deny that he was the best defensive player in college ball last year, not Clowney.
Two years ago who was the best Defense player... a True SO Clowney or a JR Donald... Not to mention... People that want to just look at last years stats. Donald had 8 sacks in his first 5 games... in his last 8 games when he was the sole focus he had 3!
I don't think so.When I first started watching Clowney,and you see him jumping over cut blocks,I thought maybe he was a little better athlete.But now I think they're just different.Clowney is lighter on his feet and quicker,Pierre Paul is more powerful and a little more flexible.
I don't think so.When I first started watching Clowney,and you see him jumping over cut blocks,I thought maybe he was a little better athlete.But now I think they're just different.Clowney is lighter on his feet and quicker,Pierre Paul is more powerful and a little more flexible.
In college JPP was never nearly as dominate as Clowney was against better competition in 2012. JPP was much more raw though and showed amazing ability, but wasn't just dominating as much. They are different type players I used JPP to show how JPP slacked off and got out of shape also after a big year with a ton of hype.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/515821/jadeveon-clowney - ( New Window )
Here - ( New Window )
The mock drafts are suck of joke. How does the QB from Louisville go from a top 2 pick and top QB picked to a second round pick in the latest mocks? He looked great on tape and now he drops?
He's just such a stud physically but I think Watkins and Mack are both better prospects than him. I agree with the media about the high ceiling. That's undeniable. But I think his bust potential is a little bit higher than the media thinks.
Before draft season, its just draft 'experts' spouting their analysis.
But rather than say "I was wrong and had X player valued too high/low", media types like to say they were right but now the player is "dropping" or "rising".
Such bullshit.
Jordan Lynch had incredible stats and should go No. 1 overall, right? Doesn't work that way.
I think that could be true which is why it's silly to just look at the 3 sacks. He was clearly doubled a lot and had an impact on his team even if his individual stats weren't great. But we've also seen DEs in the past who receive a lot of attention (maybe not as much as Clowney) and still make a ton of splash plays.
I think that could be true which is why it's silly to just look at the 3 sacks. He was clearly doubled a lot and had an impact on his team even if his individual stats weren't great. But we've also seen DEs in the past who receive a lot of attention (maybe not as much as Clowney) and still make a ton of splash plays.
I do, though Suh was up there as well in terms of media attention.
Looking back at the last 10 years, the five best defensive prospects coming out of college (IMO) were Suh, Sean Taylor, Patrick Peterson, Von Miller, and Eric Berry. Clowney gets more pub than any of those guys received, with Suh being the possible lone exception.
The funny thing is that the media explosion happened after a play where he came completely free and had a clear kill shot on a running back. About a month before that in South Carolina's 2012 regular season finale, Clowney had an incredible 4.5-sack performance against Clemson and you didn't hear a peep about it nationally.
He's the only college defender in recent memory who was a pre-season Heisman candidate. Suh built towards that as the season went on.
But in terms of respect and attention given to him by the opposing offenses, would you say Clowney ranks #1 among recent college defenders (especially DLineman)?
He's the only college defender in recent memory who was a pre-season Heisman candidate. Suh built towards that as the season went on.
But in terms of respect and attention given to him by the opposing offenses, would you say Clowney ranks #1 among recent college defenders (especially DLineman)?
Without question, yes.
And you want to draft that guy with the first pick? No thanks! He wouldn't even be on my board.
Lattimore basically said Clowney didn't want a repeat of his situation where he was rated pretty high got injured and fell to the 6th Round.
Talked to Mike Mayock at the East West Shrine game and he told me the exact same thing.
Lattimore basically said Clowney didn't want a repeat of his situation where he was rated pretty high got injured and fell to the 6th Round.
Talked to Mike Mayock at the East West Shrine game and he told me the exact same thing.
I think that explains a lot, he would have been the #1 pick in last year's draft. He'll bring it on Sundays.
The point here is simple...forget the fantasy nonsense...5 years from now assuming he is health...Aaron Donald will be seen as the #1 defensive player from the 2014 draft not Clowney...and am glad the Giants are picking @12 and not higher in which there would be temptation to try to move up to take Clowney...who has all the talent in the world...but with a questionable desire and motor ..personal I would take Donald over Clowney straight up...and think Clowney will disappoint as a pro while Donald will exceed expectations assuming he stays healthy
Aaron Donald A Football Story - ( New Window )
We got it...he is great...I'm briefed.
Lack of effort, takes too many plays off, opposition figured him out quickly...whatever it was.
And Clowney had a dramatic drop...
LOL...
Hands down the #1 defensive player in the draft and I believe he is better prospect then Suh who was seen as a once in every ten year player...the point that I was trying to make is Clowney has the potential to be a disappointment since he doesn't work hard and has a questionable desire and a motor...no such worries with AD...
btw - ever notice how those "once every 10 year players" seem to come around every couple years?
LOL...
Hands down the #1 defensive player in the draft and I believe he is better prospect then Suh who was seen as a once in every ten year player...the point that I was trying to make is Clowney has the potential to be a disappointment since he doesn't work hard and has a questionable desire and a motor...no such worries with AD...
No player is a certainty. Look no further then Aaron curry from a few yrs back. Was supposed to be the safest pick of the entire draft but was cut just a few yrs after being drafted. That's why I don't take a very strong stance about any particular college player anymore... just don't know for sure how they'll transition.
The mock drafts are suck of joke. How does the QB from Louisville go from a top 2 pick and top QB picked to a second round pick in the latest mocks? He looked great on tape and now he drops?
Mock drafts are only a joke because they all canibalize one another... Tajh Boyd was in the Top 10 of several mocks and he is awful... Bridgewater was never a top 10 talent... He never dropped because he was never there to begin with... It wasnt his Pro Day... This is just the mocks playing catch up... Clowney, on the other hand, was the #1 pick in 2014 from the day he set foot on SC campus...
That would be funny, but I have a hard time thinking Jeff Fisher could resist taking him at #2.
Hopefully there's at least one team in the top eleven that still doesn't get that it takes more than talent to be a winner. All you need to know about Clowney's future in the NFL can be summed up in this one highlight.
From wikipedia...
Sure, their character issues are different, but at least Phillips could claim to have shown production throughout his college career, culminating with a 165 yard rushing day and three TD's in the National Championship game victory.
The bottomline is that as athletic as Clowney is, he doesn't love the game of football and is only in it for the money. Players like that don't win championships, they get coaches and GM's fired.
Based on the history of the draft, Clowney will likely (hopefully!) get drafted in the top ten. And based on history, the team that drafts him will regret the decision. And either their head coach or their GM or both will be fired in a couple of years.
LOL...
Hands down the #1 defensive player in the draft and I believe he is better prospect then Suh who was seen as a once in every ten year player...the point that I was trying to make is Clowney has the potential to be a disappointment since he doesn't work hard and has a questionable desire and a motor...no such worries with AD...
Donald reminds me a lot of Warren Sapp. Especially the part where the Giants never considered drafting him.
He may be over hyped but he appears to be damned effective and a hell of a player.
And wondering how good he is based on the 3 sacks he had last season just shows how much GP was paying attention.
Be careful. They will hear you and swarm.
Not ready to put the guy in Canton but it's hard to deny that he was the best defensive player in college ball last year, not Clowney.
Quote:
Cultists saw during the season to formulate his lofty status as HOF type DT.
Not ready to put the guy in Canton but it's hard to deny that he was the best defensive player in college ball last year, not Clowney.
I don't doubt the kid can play and was great last year but in this very thread he was compared to Sapp. He's also touted as a future star as a certainty but Clowney's detractors keep mentioning that all players have risks and sometimes don't pan out. You can't have it booth ways and claim your guy is a surefire star but then point out the warts of another player.
Again, I'd love to know how many of the Donald stalwarts even heard of him before 2 months ago.
Quote:
Cultists saw during the season to formulate his lofty status as HOF type DT.
Be careful. They will hear you and swarm.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap2000000342567/article/jadeveon-clowney-phenom-or-question-mark-nfl-execs-say- - ( New Window )
LOL...
Hands down the #1 defensive player in the draft and I believe he is better prospect then Suh who was seen as a once in every ten year player...the point that I was trying to make is Clowney has the potential to be a disappointment since he doesn't work hard and has a questionable desire and a motor...no such worries with AD...
Go watch him play his FR and SO year... The guy was unstoppable much like Donald was this year. The difference being is Donald is short and light for the NFL. While that may not matter in the the long run it does matter when it comes to risk factors. You see what happened was Clowney was so good they were talking maybe he shouldn't play this year since he couldn't be drafted and just sit out. Basically just work out and do nothing for a year. That all he has to do is not get hurt and he will be the number one draft pick. He slacked off, took it easy, got out of shape, and then got dinged up. He still drew the same crazy attention that Aaron Donald did not nearly see compared to Clowney. He also was playing in the SEC against a tougher schedule not Pitt's ACC schedule.
You take the guy that is prototypical perfect size, speed, quickness, strength, etc. who slacked off at first because of all the hype he was getting. Since he realized he couldn't just slack off he has been getting in much better shape and is ready to dominate the NFL. Donald at 285 and only 6' is riskier playing inside with taller heavier NFL OGs.
So they are both good players... Clowney will much less risk and much more upside. If they both stay healthy I think they both will be good and Clowney will be one of the best. Suh by the way was dominate in size also. Donald is nothing like Suh.
From wikipedia...
Quote:
With his strong performance, Phillips was drafted sixth overall in the 1996 NFL Draft by the St. Louis Rams despite his considerable character issues; several teams with higher picks let it be known that they passed on him due to his off-the-field troubles. He was widely expected to be selected by the new Baltimore Ravens with the fourth pick to fill their vacant running back position. However, they decided to select the best available player regardless of position and selected future eleven time pro-bowler and future Pro Football Hall-of-Famer Jonathan Ogden. During the draft, ESPN analyst Joe Theisman stated in regard to Phillips: "Everybody's called him the best player in the draft." The Rams thought so highly of Phillips that on the same day of the draft, they traded his predecessor, Jerome Bettis, to the Pittsburgh Steelers.
Sure, their character issues are different, but at least Phillips could claim to have shown production throughout his college career, culminating with a 165 yard rushing day and three TD's in the National Championship game victory.
The bottomline is that as athletic as Clowney is, he doesn't love the game of football and is only in it for the money. Players like that don't win championships, they get coaches and GM's fired.
Based on the history of the draft, Clowney will likely (hopefully!) get drafted in the top ten. And based on history, the team that drafts him will regret the decision. And either their head coach or their GM or both will be fired in a couple of years.
Did you not see him his FR and SO year... Pure dominance from him. He slacked off doesn't mean he doesn't love the game. He is much like JPP really. JPP slacked off after his big year. The difference is I think they both have had a wake up call and both will be great again.
Quote:
Cultists saw during the season to formulate his lofty status as HOF type DT.
Not ready to put the guy in Canton but it's hard to deny that he was the best defensive player in college ball last year, not Clowney.
Two years ago who was the best Defense player... a True SO Clowney or a JR Donald... Not to mention... People that want to just look at last years stats. Donald had 8 sacks in his first 5 games... in his last 8 games when he was the sole focus he had 3!
In college JPP was never nearly as dominate as Clowney was against better competition in 2012. JPP was much more raw though and showed amazing ability, but wasn't just dominating as much. They are different type players I used JPP to show how JPP slacked off and got out of shape also after a big year with a ton of hype.