Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Will Beatty is the key to this draft...IMO

NYBEN : 4/21/2014 9:20 am
Everything depends on if 1-they feel he will be healthy and ready to go for the start of training camp and 2-can he return to the form that earned him the big contract. If they feel that he is able to do both I don't see the Giants taking one of the tackles at 12.If he is not ready I think they take a tackle at 12,if their confidence in him is completely gone then they take a tackle. No one knows any of this except the front office. We can all give opinions on what we think they are thinking but at the end of the day... no one really knows? We'll just have to wait and see.
For what it's worth (not much)I hope that Beatty is healthy and ready to return to form, so that we can take a IMPACT offensive player at 12, either Evans or Ebron. Then continue to restock the O-line later in the draft, maybe take a guard/center in the 2nd and a tackle somewhere after that...but it all depends on Beatty.
But the thing here is you are trusting the Giants' judgement on him  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 4/21/2014 9:26 am : link
Last year Reese gambled big on the O-Line and lost big. As a fan, I'm relatively spooked by that massive miscalculation on their part. And on tap of that look at the money they are paying Beatty. The Giants have put themselves in a very difficult situation at left tackle.
Disagree  
lugnut : 4/21/2014 9:28 am : link
I think they should take an OT even if Beatty is good to go. We now have Beatty and Pugh at the position, and after that...nobody - and I mean nobody. And don't forget Beatty turns 30 after this season. I'd be happy with Lewan or Martin, and I bet Martin, for his versatility, is the pick at #12.
BR all we can do is  
Randy in CT : 4/21/2014 9:29 am : link
trust the staff. Is there another choice?
Draft the player not the position  
JonC : 4/21/2014 9:30 am : link
if the best choice at #12 is an OT, so be it, but they won't walk in with the preconceived notion or tackle or bust.
Randy, I get it. We're just fans.  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 4/21/2014 9:32 am : link
Nothing we can do and Rees is certainly exponentially smarter than I am at all things football. Just feel like the Giants are hung up at left tackle due to a number of issues.
The double question mark on Beatty  
Randy in CT : 4/21/2014 9:32 am : link
is his health as well as him having an awful season. Us going tackle early would be prudent.
RE: Disagree  
NYG007 : 4/21/2014 9:36 am : link
In comment 11629939 lugnut said:
Quote:
I think they should take an OT even if Beatty is good to go. We now have Beatty and Pugh at the position, and after that...nobody - and I mean nobody. And don't forget Beatty turns 30 after this season. I'd be happy with Lewan or Martin, and I bet Martin, for his versatility, is the pick at #12.


Agree, 100%. With Beattys contract and health/performance concerns, many have already reported were setup to cut him with no reasonable pain after 2014 if we choose to. I think JR will, and we need a stud Tackle in this draft.
Randy  
NYBEN : 4/21/2014 9:39 am : link
again...as fans we don't know how he is progressing health-wise. For all we know he could be running and squatting 600lbs already. And studying tape of himself trying to find out what he did to become "WILL BEAT ME" instead of Will Beatty.
Today we'll find out what kind of shape Beatty is in...  
Klaatu : 4/21/2014 9:39 am : link
Along with the rest of our walking wounded. And let's not forget that the Giants did sign Charles Brown. I don't think the Giants have to draft an OT at 12, but if the value is there then so be it. I won't bitch about it.
Ben, the 2 questions I raised  
Randy in CT : 4/21/2014 9:40 am : link
outweigh any optimism I have for Beatty. Personally.
If the Giants brain trust watch film of the first 15 games  
Damon : 4/21/2014 9:47 am : link
(Before he broke his leg) Tackle is a high priority. Might not be the right move at 12... But if the value is there... They go T.
Randy  
NYBEN : 4/21/2014 9:48 am : link
We actually raised the same questions..my point is that only the FO knows the answers. Let's be honest there is some risk no matter which way they go. Robert Gallery was supposed to be a "can't miss" tackle a few years back. A case can be made that he was as big a bust as Ryan Leaf. You gamble on Beatty or you gamble on a rookie.
Reese has drafted need over BPA many times  
old timer : 4/21/2014 9:55 am : link
So the first pick will reveal his opinion of Beatty.

Does he view him as the rising young star of 2012?

Or the turnstile of 2013?
Gallery  
Tuckrule : 4/21/2014 9:56 am : link
was a very good guar for about a decade. Struggled as a tackle but did very well for 10 years. Do not compare him to leaf
Reese has to  
Giants : 4/21/2014 10:01 am : link
get this draft right. He knows his job is on the line. Over the years he has done a terrible job restocking the OL. This draft he has to go OL a couple of times. I expect two OL out of the first three picks.
Tuckrule  
NYBEN : 4/21/2014 10:02 am : link
I totally disagree...Gallery was drafted 2nd to play tackle and was awful then moved to guard. And FYI he only played in the NFL 7 years.
I can't prove it but  
mrvax : 4/21/2014 10:09 am : link
I believe Tom Coughlin is responsible for putting that particular shit Oline together for the start of 2013.

I do not think Ebron is a 1st round talent unless you are dead set on drafting a guy who's full of himself, can't block and has the dropies.
You are absolutely correct.  
Emlen'sGremlins : 4/21/2014 10:12 am : link
The key is to getting Will Beatty out of the starting lineup and eventually off the roster.

Therefore, Taylor Lewan at #12 please.
Emlen  
NYBEN : 4/21/2014 10:16 am : link
hey ...if the FO feels last season is the real Will Beatty ...then HELL YEAH.
Hope, Wish, Prayer  
RetroJint : 4/21/2014 10:16 am : link
Not my idea of a sensible response to Beatty's awful '13 season. They have to plan for the bust. They have one remedy in house, which is to move Pugh to LT. But that still requires a draft choice.
This same thread from  
vibe4giants : 4/21/2014 10:17 am : link
a month ago.
Damn this late draft - ( New Window )
That  
NYBEN : 4/21/2014 10:20 am : link
Martyglickman is a sharp guy!!
If Beatty  
AnishPatel : 4/21/2014 10:20 am : link
does prove to be useless, and since we gave him a big contract that makes it worse. That 2009 draft then becomes god awful for us. That's pretty damn piss poor.

Nicks, Clint S., Beatty, Barden, Beckum, Brown, and Rhett fucking Bomar.

That was Ross's first draft here with. Man, except for Nicks really, we swung and missed a lot.
Ben  
Hades07 : 4/21/2014 10:22 am : link
The point he was making was at least Gallery became some use as a player. Leaf did not.
Martin is a guard ya ?  
shabu : 4/21/2014 10:23 am : link
Martin is a guard that some say can play tackle... I don't think we are drafting a maybe Tackle at 12.
RE: Martin is a guard ya ?  
Klaatu : 4/21/2014 10:27 am : link
In comment 11630069 shabu said:
Quote:
Martin is a guard that some say can play tackle... I don't think we are drafting a maybe Tackle at 12.


No, Martin is a Tackle that many project to Guard (same as they did for Pugh).
RE: If Beatty  
Randy in CT : 4/21/2014 10:28 am : link
In comment 11630057 AnishPatel said:
Quote:
does prove to be useless, and since we gave him a big contract that makes it worse. That 2009 draft then becomes god awful for us. That's pretty damn piss poor.

Nicks, Clint S., Beatty, Barden, Beckum, Brown, and Rhett fucking Bomar.

That was Ross's first draft here with. Man, except for Nicks really, we swung and missed a lot.
What that draft may have been is neither here nor there. We have to focus on upgrading the Oline. Previously wasted picks be damned.
I agree  
old man : 4/21/2014 10:29 am : link
Is he healed enough to participate in pre draft OTAs?
They can then gauge his mobility and strength if he is and proceed accordingly(I know there is to be little contact, but the mobility at least can give them an idea), if not they likely really need to go OL in #1, which I prefer anyway.
Beatty Broke a leg  
Blue Blood : 4/21/2014 10:33 am : link
his leg didnt come off
RE: Beatty Broke a leg  
Klaatu : 4/21/2014 10:39 am : link
In comment 11630087 Blue Blood said:
Quote:
his leg didnt come off


Are you sure about that? Damn. I was hoping to use "Peg Leg" Beatty this summer.
Blue Blood  
Giants : 4/21/2014 10:54 am : link
Beatty Broke a leg
Blue Blood : 10:33 am : link : reply
his leg didnt come off

The knock on Beatty has always been his upper body strength. He never put enough time or effort in weight room. The one thing he had going for him was his leg work. Now he breaks his leg not the first time he has had a broken leg. In 2006 he broke his right leg in college. As a GM of NFL team who's job is clearly on the line. How much do you count on Beatty ?
Boldruler  
Phil from WNY : 4/21/2014 11:23 am : link
I think it's clear that management agrees with you in that they've already done a lot to improve their depth. Last year was a calculated risk that their line had enough left for another run and it went against them. This year, they're approaching the line completely different.

The one thing I do trust about management is their willingness to accept risk as a means towards winning a championship. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't but I'm always convinced that Reese will take a shot on goal when it's there.

Based on this perception, I haven't soured on this management in the slightest.
If your LT is adequate  
Bob in Newburgh : 4/21/2014 11:32 am : link
which means he does not get the QB killed, or does not commonly cause hurried throws:

then changing LTs does little to improve your team in terms of number of wins and losses.

Furthermore,it hurts your team to carry multiple LT level contracts, or to incur optional "dead money" against the cap.

So yes, if management projects Beatty as healed and adequate, I doubt that we draft a premium LT.

NYBEN,  
Simms11 : 4/21/2014 12:36 pm : link
based on your logic, I think the Giants could potentially draft Martin, who will most definitely be available when we draft at #12. Perhaps we even move down and pick up another pick or two depending on where we drop to. Martin is the safest pick and has the versatility that the Giants covet in their linemen. He's a very good Left Tackle and most project him to be a Pro-Bowl caliber Guard, if moved inside. Beatty will most likely be given every opportunity to excel at LT again, but if he falters, then we must have a viable replacement and Martin would be that guy IMO. If Beatty plays well once again, then they could push Martin inside to play Left Guard and move Schwartz to his more natural Right Guard position on the line; thereby pushing Snee to reserve Guard and IMO, probably the best move, as I don't see Snee being the Snee of 4-5 years ago and this line MUST improve for the Giants to get back to the playoffs.
We need an OT  
Joey in VA : 4/21/2014 12:37 pm : link
From the first 3 rounds, we simply need more talent at the position. We have ONE tackle we can count on right now.
I'd be shocked  
Johnny5 : 4/21/2014 12:58 pm : link
If the Giants don't draft a tackle AND a center in this draft. We could very clearly use both to be added to the mix.

That said, I'm lying I wouldn't be all that shocked. But if OT and Center are available as (close to) BPA in the 1st 4 rounds... I'm guessing we snag both.
I agree  
NYBEN : 4/21/2014 1:03 pm : link
that no matter how they feel about Beatty they will take a tackle and a guard/center. I'm just saying that at 12 they may not if they feel comfortable about his health and his ability to play like he did in 2012
Hmm yeah  
Johnny5 : 4/21/2014 1:24 pm : link
Impossible to say (but fun to speculate). Obviously it depends who is available when we pick (and how much they actually like them). I wouldn't be at all shocked for them to take Lewan or Matthews if they are there at #12.
a decent T  
fkap : 4/21/2014 1:30 pm : link
who can also play G is an absolute asset to the team, considering the state of our OL. Why wouldn't you grab someone who is going to be an asset on the worst aspect of our team?
When you watch Martin, he shows a lot of skill at LT.  
yatqb : 4/21/2014 1:34 pm : link
I don't see why he couldn't play there right off the bat and do a better job than a guy like Diehl did several year ago.

To me he's a safe pick who can play anywhere on the line effectively.
Randy,  
AnishPatel : 4/21/2014 1:37 pm : link
In comment 11630077 Randy in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 11630057 AnishPatel said:


Quote:


does prove to be useless, and since we gave him a big contract that makes it worse. That 2009 draft then becomes god awful for us. That's pretty damn piss poor.

Nicks, Clint S., Beatty, Barden, Beckum, Brown, and Rhett fucking Bomar.

That was Ross's first draft here with. Man, except for Nicks really, we swung and missed a lot.

What that draft may have been is neither here nor there. We have to focus on upgrading the Oline. Previously wasted picks be damned.



I agree. I am just saying we swung and missed big time in that draft. That was the start of the downhill nature of our overall drafts.

I hope we don't mess this draft up. I don't trust Ross at all.
RE: I'd be shocked  
Randy in CT : 4/21/2014 1:45 pm : link
In comment 11630487 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
If the Giants don't draft a tackle AND a center in this draft. We could very clearly use both to be added to the mix.

That said, I'm lying I wouldn't be all that shocked. But if OT and Center are available as (close to) BPA in the 1st 4 rounds... I'm guessing we snag both.
Johnny, I'm thinking (and hoping) that the Giants think that Walton is 100% and will perform at a very high level. Let's hope.
RE: Boldruler  
T-Bone : 4/21/2014 2:02 pm : link
In comment 11630202 Phil from WNY said:
Quote:
I think it's clear that management agrees with you in that they've already done a lot to improve their depth. Last year was a calculated risk that their line had enough left for another run and it went against them. This year, they're approaching the line completely different.

The one thing I do trust about management is their willingness to accept risk as a means towards winning a championship. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't but I'm always convinced that Reese will take a shot on goal when it's there.

Based on this perception, I haven't soured on this management in the slightest.


Excellent post and I agree 100%. It's also why I disagree with those that think Reese's job is in any danger. I don't think he gets fired if the team goes 0-16. He hasn't even had a chance to pick his own coach yet. I feel very confident in saying that no matter what happens this year, Reese will still be the GM of the New York Giants in 2015.
The degree of panic over Beatty  
HomerJones45 : 4/21/2014 2:03 pm : link
is over the moon. I realize he's this season's BBI whipping boy.

Fix the interior of the line. Beatty was put in an impossible position last season- lined up against the other team's best pass rusher, no help, and no where to take the pass rusher.

Conventional wisdom is to take the pass rusher outside and let the qb step up. Beatty is athletic enough to give the rusher the outside and let the qb step up. Couldn't be done with the interior of the line. Jesus, Beatty had Jared Allen locked up and locked down on the outside, and Allen got a sack because there was no where for Eli to step up. So, now what? You can't give the pass rusher the inside because it's already a jail break there. Anyone who thinks Pugh would have had it any different under the same circumstances is dreaming.

Fix the interior of the line and give the LT half a chance.
To clarify  
Johnny5 : 4/21/2014 3:21 pm : link
I think Beatty will be fine, although that did look like a gruesome injury. I also think he is better than what a lot of people give him credit for... the putridness of the interior line as well as the lack of even mediocre blocking TE and a revolving door at RB made him look much worse than he was.

And I'm definitely hoping Walton pans out... But I still would not at all be surprised if the Giants draft a tackle AND a center in the 1st 4 rounds. Depth and competition is a great thing.
I agree totally with the OP  
Mike in Long Beach : 4/21/2014 3:29 pm : link
I think the direction this draft takes coincides with what the Giants think Will Beatty is and will become.
Catch-22?  
Doomster : 4/21/2014 3:40 pm : link
How can he be a key to the draft, if you don't know what he is capable of doing? Unless, the Giants have already made up their minds about him.....


What is more important, is what is the front office's goal next year? Take short cuts and try a playoff run next year, or build for the future?
Wanting a better LT in the draft  
Phil from WNY : 4/21/2014 3:53 pm : link
is not panicking.
It is when there are more pressing needs  
HomerJones45 : 4/21/2014 4:20 pm : link
our receiver corp consists of the smallish Cruz, the airhead, another smallish receiver who has had 1 good game in his 3 year career, a guy coming off a serious knee injury and two tight ends who have caught 3 passes between them in their careers. Frankly, that screams receiver in the draft.

45  
Phil from WNY : 4/21/2014 4:32 pm : link
You draft the player who is going to make your team better in the first whether he's a LT or WR. I'd be happy with either.
T-Bone/BoldRuler  
fkap : 4/21/2014 4:57 pm : link
the draft will tell us if Reese has learned anything. He's addressed depth on the OL, but the starting lineup is very much in question. So far, all I've seen is that he knows the line is a problem. Aside from Schwartz, he's simply doing a lot of gambling that something will pan out. My big fear is that he thinks he's solved the issues. IF he ignores OL in the top rounds, it'll tell us that he thinks OL is just a 'any old line will do' kind of thing.

That said, so far, I really don't see what JR has done to warrant his exalted status. Not saying he's a dunce.
fkap  
T-Bone : 4/21/2014 5:28 pm : link
Quote:
IF he ignores OL in the top rounds, it'll tell us that he thinks OL is just a 'any old line will do' kind of thing.


IMO, it doesn't say that at all. What it says to me is that none of the available OL at their turn to pick were that much better, or equal to, talent-wise than the player that they did pick. Everyone who's been following the team knows that they team picks the best available player, regardless of position, and yet I see many long-time posters say 'He needs to pick an OL in the first 3 rounds if he's serious about fixing the OL!'. Now that said, both BPA AND Need usually are represented in the same pick... but that's not strictly how the front office picks players.

Quote:
That said, so far, I really don't see what JR has done to warrant his exalted status. Not saying he's a dunce.


He has not one but two shiny Super Bowl rings on his fingers. That should count for something shouldn't it? Or are we going to let one down season (where all hell broke loose) diminish the 4 or 5 before it? Actually, it's a testament to the Owners, FO, coaches and players that a 7-9 record makes the fans want to clean house of everyone!
Gilbride comments  
New Haven : 4/21/2014 11:14 pm : link
After he was released Gilbride told me at a dinner that Beatty
was worried about his injuries before the leg. More importantly Beatty thinks of himself as an artist. Not a resounding vote of confidence imo.

PS He yelled at Randall everyday. Claims doesn't try hard enough.

Biggest concern was running back before free agency.

New Haven  
SGMen : 4/21/2014 11:29 pm : link
If that is the case with Beatty, I hope a tackle worthy of #12 falls our way. If your head & heart aren't truly into football it will show just like it did last year. He has a leg injury to heal from so lets hope his pride is hurt and he wants it this year.
I'm hoping they take an rt  
giantgiantfan : 4/22/2014 12:39 am : link
That can also play guard. They need a young guard but if he can also pay rt then it gives them the option of moving pugh left. maybe a guy like this can be had in round 2 or 3?
...  
SanFranGiantsFan : 4/22/2014 6:50 am : link
Provided he's healthy, I think Beatty is going to have a bounce back season. He was terrible last year, but I think a lot of that was due to how bad the rest of the OL was &, as he acknowledged, he put a lot of pressure on himself to perform with that new deal. I think both of those things will be corrected in '14.
. . . . .  
jeff57 : 4/22/2014 1:06 pm : link
Vacchiano ‏@RVacchianoNYDN 56 secs

LT Will Beatty (leg, knee) said he's "past the doctor's expectations" in his rehab, but still can't say if he'll be ready by Opening Day.Expand Collapse Reply Retweet
RE: . . . . .  
BlueHurricane : 4/22/2014 1:29 pm : link
In comment 11632201 jeff57 said:
Quote:
Vacchiano ‏@RVacchianoNYDN 56 secs

LT Will Beatty (leg, knee) said he's "past the doctor's expectations" in his rehab, but still can't say if he'll be ready by Opening Day.Expand Collapse Reply Retweet


Think we are drafting a tackle
Healing and rehab time from a broken leg  
Jimmy Googs : 4/22/2014 2:13 pm : link
is not less than 9 months?
RE: Disagree  
ReneNYG1 : 4/22/2014 9:00 pm : link
In comment 11629939 lugnut said:
Quote:
I think they should take an OT even if Beatty is good to go. We now have Beatty and Pugh at the position, and after that...nobody - and I mean nobody. And don't forget Beatty turns 30 after this season. I'd be happy with Lewan or Martin, and I bet Martin, for his versatility, is the pick at #12.

I totally on board with drafting Martin because at worse he can be an all pro guard and if Beatty doesn't panout he can move to left tackle so in essence he protects us from a failing Beatty while also giving any position we need.
Back to the Corner