for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

My mock (with detailed explanations)

AcidTest : 4/21/2014 10:00 am
Here is my mock draft. It is a lot different than most of the others that have been posted, but I think it represents solid value for the Giants at each pick. I have assumed no trading.

ROUND ONE –- MORGAN MOSES, TACKLE, VIRGINIA. I am assuming that Donald is gone. A bit of a surprise that will at first bring a cry of “reach,” but that simply isn’t correct. Moses is 6’6”, 315, with 34 ¾” long arms, and an enormous wingspan. A massive human being, he is a better prospect than Martin, CK, or Lewan. He can play on the left or right side, and even at guard, meaning he has the versatility the Giants like in their lineman. He also has no injury or character concerns.

Moses has been rapidly rising since his standout performance at the Senior Bowl, where he blew open huge rush lanes. He also did well in pass protection, including against Dee Ford, and his former teammate Brent Urban. And that was after a stellar senior season, in which he controlled Vic Beasley, Jeremiah Attaochu, and other similar caliber players.

He is a dominant, annihilating, run blocker, who can anchor against bull rushes. Here is a good summary of Moses, and some other great information about why #12 isn’t too high for this guy:

12/04/2013 - 2013 ALL-ACC THIRD TEAM (MEDIA): T Morgan Moses, Virginia, 6-6, 325, Sr., Richmond, Va. (76)...Moses (Richmond, Va.), an early invite to the 2014 Senior Bowl, started all 12 games at left tackle and finished his UVa career with 43 starts between both tackles positions and right guard. Moses was a key blocking component to help Parks became UVa's first 1,000-yard rusher in a season since 2004. The senior graded out over 90 percent in every game and averaged eight knockdowns per contest. Moses yielded only two sacks in 506 pass attempts, which included limiting Clemson's Vic Beasley (Bednarik and Lombardi Award semifinalists) to one tackle and zero sacks. - Virginia football.

09/09/2013 - Even in lopsided loss, Virginia OT Morgan Moses boosts grade...While Oregon is, of course, best known for their talent on the offensive side of the ball, these Ducks are significantly more powerful along the defensive line than in years past. Moses faced a gauntlet of pass rushers that ranged from speedy junior Tony Washington (6-3, 243) to stouter defensive linemen like Taylor Hart (6-6, 287) and Arik Armstead (6-8, 280). Regardless of the challenger, Moses held up nicely in what was just his second start at left tackle.

Moses had a poor combine, but even then, as the article notes, his “20 yard shuttle - a drill that is designed to measure agility in a short space - was 4.92 seconds. This was only .06 seconds slower than Greg Robinson's 20 yard shuttle, a player who many think is the best LT prospect in this class.” I have read that the Dolphins, Ravens, Panthers, and Redskins like him a lot. He isn’t getting out of the first round.

Moses needs to watch his weight and work on his technique. There are times he simply uses his massive frame, and not proper technique, to ride defenders away from the QB. He is also susceptible to quick inside moves, but overall looks like a better version of Kareem McKenzie. He’s well worth #12.

ROUND TWO – PHILLIP GAINES, CB, RICE. Here is the real stunner, especially given the upgrades the Giants made to their secondary in FA. The Giants had him in for a private visit, and a Giants scout compared him to Will Peterson. This is a classic BPA pick. You can never have enough corners, especially in the pass happy NFL. 6’0”, 190, with 4.38 speed, he can match up with the bigger taller WRs that are so commonplace in the NFL. A 45 game starter, here is a good summary of what he did at Rice:

12/17/2013 - 2013 ALL-CONFERENCE USA FIRST TEAM (COACHES): DB - Phillip Gaines, Rice, Sr.,...Gaines earned first-team honors for the second consecutive year, becoming the Owls first repeat selection since Jarett Dillard was a three-time choice from 2006-08. He led the team with four interceptions this year while combining with Callahan to shut down many of the conference's top receiving threats. He only allowed 13 receptions in 40 targeted throws during the year. - Rice football.

07/21/2013 - 2013 CONFERENCE USA PRESEASON FIRST TEAM (COACHES): DB Phillip Gaines, Sr., Rice...Gaines was a consensus All-Conference USA selection after leading the league and finishing second nationally with 18 pass breakups. Gaines led the conference and was tied for eighth nationally with 1.50 passes defended per game. His career PBU total of 29 coming into the season is the most in school history. The 29 PBU's are tied for the 10th-most in NCAA history since the statistic was first tracked in 2003. - Rice football.

Prince, Thurmond, Bowman, and James all have contracts that end in 2015. What looks strong now could be weak in a year. If we lose Prince, we might be glad we have Gaines, especially with a year in the NFL and our system. I would however be stunned if Prince was traded on draft day.

ROUND THREE –- DAQUAN JONES, TACKLE, PENN STATE. 6’4” 322 pounds. A stalwart on the Penn State defense. Bull strong, with 25 reps on the bench. Team captain. Here is a good summary of his achievements:

12/05/2013 - 2013 ALL-BIG TEN FIRST TEAM (COACHES): DaQuan Jones, Penn State, Defensive Line...Jones led Penn State with 11.5 tackles for loss (minus-42 yards). He was fifth on the squad with 56 tackles (33 solo), recorded three sacks (minus-21) and had a fumble recovery. A starter in 23 games over the past two seasons, Jones led all Big Ten defensive tackles in hits this season. The former Johnson City Senior HS standout is the 13th different Nittany Lion defensive lineman to earn first-team All-Big Ten honors since 1998 under the tutelage of defensive line coach Larry Johnson.

Hankins, Jones, Patterson, Jenkins, and Kuhn are a solid DT rotation.

ROUND FOUR –- BRANDON COLEMAN, WR, RUTGERS. 6’6”, 225 pounds. 4.56 forty. 21 reps on the bench. The “other” big receiver, aside from Evans, Benjamin, and Bryant, Coleman had a down year, but had bad QB play. He probably should have gone back for his senior year, but still represents excellent value in round four. This article is a good summary of Coleman. Another good summary:

The 6-foot-6 Coleman is second in school history with 19 career receiving touchdowns. In 38 career games and 26 starts at wide receiver, Coleman has 92 career receptions for 1,743 yards. He is averaging 18.9 yards per reception in his career. Coleman has three of the 10 longest receptions in school history (92, 86, 85). In 2012, he was an All-BIG EAST Second Team selection after totaling 43 receptions for 718 yards and 10 touchdowns. The 10 touchdown receptions tied a school single-season record. Coleman is a two-time conference all-academic team selection and is one semester away from earning his degree. - Rutgers football.

ROUND FIVE --- ARTHUR LYNCH, TE, GEORGIA. 6’5”, 258. 28 reps on the bench. Primarily a blocking TE, but had 30-459-5 (15.3) in 2013. Hard worker. Team captain. ST experience. Short area target. He’s not going to beat anybody down the seam.

ROUND FIVE – TYLER GAFFNEY, RB, STANFORD. 5’11”. 220. 4.49 forty. I hardly know anything about him, but somebody posted a link with his statistics. His bio at nfl.com says he is good in pass protection.

ROUND SIX –- LARRY WEBSTER, DE, BLOOMSBURG. 6’6”, 252. Former basketball player who only played two years of college football. Would be another Reese “project,” but this late in the draft that is a good gamble. He needs to get stronger, with only seventeen reps on the bench, but had a 4.58 forty and 36.5 inch vertical. His progress in only two years has been remarkable. Here is a summary of what he has done in the last two seasons:

Moved to the gridiron in the fall of 2012 and had 39 tackles, 15 tackles for loss and a school-record 13.5 sacks with two passes batted and one forced fumble in 12 games. Also caught two passes for eight yards and two touchdowns. Had nearly identical defensive statistics in 2013, tallying 49 tackles, 16 tackles for loss, 12.5 sacks with two passes batted and one forced fumble in 12 games. Was a finalist for the Cliff Harris Award, given annually to the top small-school defensive player. The Giants had him in for a private visit.

FINAL THOUGHTS:

(1) Whatever happens, I hope the Giants stay away from “projects,” at least until day three. I would define that term to include players with a significant injury history, character concerns, those who came late to football, or players who will have to switch positions in the NFL. That means no Barr, CK, Lewan, Jeremy Hill, Seantrel Henderson, Lyerla, or Hageman. Webster is a “project,” but I didn’t pick him until late in round five. I picked several team captains, and Coleman is a two-time conference all-academic team selection.

(2) If the Giants don’t take an OT early, look for Reese to use a day three pick on a developmental OT. They met with Kevin Pamphile, Kadeem Williams, and Terrance Hackney. The Giants seem to do this most years, as they did with Whimper, Brewer, Petrus, McCants, and Mosley.

We will hopefully get some good players, whether these or others. This is the most important draft for Reese in years.
A Right Tackle at #12 overall?  
Emlen'sGremlins : 4/21/2014 10:09 am : link
A Corner in the 2nd Round?

Ummmm....no thanks.
How is Gaines  
YAJ2112 : 4/21/2014 10:11 am : link
not a project?
my thoughts exactly  
Tuckrule : 4/21/2014 10:12 am : link
talk about no projects and you take one in the second round. Moses at 12 no thank you
Jordan  
pjcas18 : 4/21/2014 10:15 am : link
Ranaan had a series of tweet and articles about the correlation between Giants visits and their draft picks and the overwhelming majority of their picks never visit with them officially.

Just pointing this out - due to your 2nd round pick.

Prince doesn't even remember meeting with the Giants at the combine.

JPP, Jernigan, and a couple more represent the MAYBE 1 pick per draft class they actually met with privately.
Moses  
AcidTest : 4/21/2014 10:19 am : link
played LT during his senior season.
I must agree:  
old man : 4/21/2014 10:21 am : link
it is different. And I understand the arguments, especially at #2 with PG as PA insurance. You must want to move Pugh given the #1 pick.
I have the feeling the NYFG are tired of the developmental projects, even at 6th, especially for the OL. They already have 3 that have not stepped up, and who knows about EHerman.
If MM brings the nasty, I guess you envision him as another KMcK.
No opinion as I just "know" these players from write-ups and youtube  
Big Blue '56 : 4/21/2014 10:27 am : link
highlights. That said, do you(or anyone) NOT expect a solid BPA to be there over this guy?
RE: I must agree:  
AcidTest : 4/21/2014 10:30 am : link
In comment 11630058 old man said:
Quote:
it is different. And I understand the arguments, especially at #2 with PG as PA insurance. You must want to move Pugh given the #1 pick.
I have the feeling the NYFG are tired of the developmental projects, even at 6th, especially for the OL. They already have 3 that have not stepped up, and who knows about EHerman.
If MM brings the nasty, I guess you envision him as another KMcK.


Yeah, I knew this wouldn't be popular, but I wasn't trying to be different just for the sake of being different. I have seen a lot of Moses, and think he is better than Martin, CK, and Lewan. CK and Lewan also have injury and character concerns. Martin is closer, but doesn't have the length of Moses. Few tackles do.

Gaines is now almost certainly a second round pick. We have a lot of CBs on one year contracts, and Reese has always said the draft is for the future.

Keep it coming. The comments are appreciated, even if you don't like it.
Best pick is Rd  
LauderdaleMatty : 4/21/2014 10:37 am : link
4. Coleman should have gon back but without knowing who the OC would be and the prospect of watching Gary Nova throw 30 INTS this year I can't blame him for leaving early.
The Giants WR corps currently lacks a WR1 imho  
GiantBlue : 4/21/2014 10:38 am : link
With Randle, Mario and Cruz, we have a good 2-2-3.

My gut feeling is JR will draft or trade up for Evans.

I would love Tre after watching him this past season. However, than the 2nd pick would almost need to be OL.
Moses would be fine after a trade-down.  
Big Blue Blogger : 4/21/2014 10:41 am : link
At #12, you would have be right that "he is a better prospect than Martin, CK, or Lewan." That's quite a controversial assertion, and I don't think you have offered much to support it.

A developmental CB is a good idea. At #43? Not so much. The third, fifth and sixth rounders seem OK. My question about Coleman is whether he has shown the ability to separate from a quality CB. In the fourth round, you are much more likely to find the next Ramses Barden than the next Plaxico Burress (or Marques Colston, for that matter).
The only  
AnishPatel : 4/21/2014 10:53 am : link
proven guy we have is Cruz, and he is coming off a knee injury. RR flashes but is inconsistent, and Mario, I wouldn't count on since he is coming off 2 knee injuries. So I wouldn't put him in the mix until he proves he can stay healthy, for starters, and then be productive.
Like rounds 4-6  
hd9009 : 4/21/2014 11:02 am : link
Don't like 1st 3. Pugh is RT and that's what Moses is. I'm a UVA fan and don't see him as LT in pros
other than Webster late  
Sir-Yes-Sir : 4/21/2014 11:08 am : link
there are no words for how much I disagree with this, or how disappointed I would be.

sorry.
If we take Moses...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/21/2014 11:10 am : link
and don't trade down 10 spots before doing it - somebody should be summarily fired.

Moses is expected to be available when the Panthers pick - and he might be their guy.

staying at 12 to get a guy expected to go in the mid 20's or later is absurd.
I agree  
JOMO25 : 4/21/2014 11:12 am : link
with sir-yes-sir with one addition

Gaffney also a solid pick.
I appreciate that your mock isn't the same old, same old,  
barens : 4/21/2014 11:26 am : link
But Moses far from a sure bet to play left tackle. That was his position his senior year only, but in the NFL, he doesn't have the quick feet to play that position consistently. I think he'll make a fine right tackle, but at 12, or even in the first round in general, you want to draft a tackle who can play on both sides.

I'd be happier with Cyrus K., who played left tackle at Alabama for 2 years at a very high level.

I like Larry Webster, but I'm starting to think some team is going to take him in the 3rd or 4th round.
Love rounds 4-6  
Marty866b : 4/21/2014 11:33 am : link
The rest? Not so much. Zach Martin has New York giant written all over him though I want Donald in the first.
RE: If we take Moses...  
AcidTest : 4/21/2014 11:46 am : link
In comment 11630170 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
and don't trade down 10 spots before doing it - somebody should be summarily fired.

Moses is expected to be available when the Panthers pick - and he might be their guy.

staying at 12 to get a guy expected to go in the mid 20's or later is absurd.


I'd be OK with trading down ten spots to get an extra second or third, even though it means Moses may be gone. I also like Ju'Wuan James, who should be available in the third.

I have seen Moses mocked to the Panthers. I also live north of Baltimore, and have heard that the Ravens like him a lot. Miami as well. Of course, all of this could be a smokescreen.
Calling Roger Goodell, PLEASE MOVE THE DRAFT BACK TO APRIL!  
Victor in CT : 4/21/2014 11:47 am : link
please, please , please
If that was how  
Big Rick in FL : 4/21/2014 12:03 pm : link
Our draft went I would put a bullet in my fucking head.
Don't think the Giants will  
Simms11 : 4/21/2014 12:54 pm : link
wait to draft an OT in the late rounds. They can't afford too many more projects along the oline. They need guys who can come in and start day 1.
The Offense is broken  
DavidinBMNY : 4/21/2014 1:24 pm : link
This mock is well thought out, I enjoyed reading it.

The reason it doesn't pass my "AcidTest" is because of "The offense is broken" by Mr. Mara leading to McAdoo and the new offense. If there is ever a case when more rookies can be absorbed into a team or in this case into a unit, it's this year. McAdoo stated he is trying to fit players into a system. McAdoo will be trying to exploit players talents. And Nicks who was an explosive player in his prime with the team and Wilson who's status are unknown are 2 1st rd players we don't have or can't count on. I don't think Adding a RB and MM are enough. More is needed.

There are 3 priorities for the team in my mind in this order:

1) Protect Manning (so I can identify with the Moses pick, but don't necessarily see the value - I like Zack Martin)
2) Add some explosion to the offense (create a mismatch where Cruz can't constantly be double-teammed)
3) Generate a Pass rush

As I've rated 2 of the 3 priorities on Offense I'd like to see 2 of the first 3 picks spent on offense. Additionally, in FA, I feel most of the players have been added on Defense and with a fixed sum of resources in the cap era, the swing has to go to Offense in this draft.



You certainly went outside the box with that draft  
Torrag : 4/21/2014 3:44 pm : link
I appreciate some info and opinions on these guys. A fresh new perspective as it were. That's the real purpose of mock drafts imo. To shed some light on the talent coming into the league.

I like many of the prospects you targeted but not necessarily where you did so. A couple I think will be gone and a couple you took too early. Of the rest the DaQuan Jones pick is real solid in Round 3.

My biggest issue is unfortunately your top two picks. For me Moses isn't a Top 20 selection. Yes he had a decent Senior Bowl week but the pass rushing talent on hand isn't close to an indication of what the reality of the NFL is. I don't see him translating at all well to the left side.

Phillip Gaines isn't the sum of his physical attributes. He's a good pass defender without being a big playmaker. Suspect hands/hand-eye for the INT. Poor tackler in the run game. IMO the Giants have fallen in love with and drafted too many of this type player. By that I mean guys that are better athletes than football players.

RE: You certainly went outside the box with that draft  
AcidTest : 4/21/2014 4:03 pm : link
In comment 11630903 Torrag said:
Quote:
I appreciate some info and opinions on these guys. A fresh new perspective as it were. That's the real purpose of mock drafts imo. To shed some light on the talent coming into the league.

I like many of the prospects you targeted but not necessarily where you did so. A couple I think will be gone and a couple you took too early. Of the rest the DaQuan Jones pick is real solid in Round 3.

My biggest issue is unfortunately your top two picks. For me Moses isn't a Top 20 selection. Yes he had a decent Senior Bowl week but the pass rushing talent on hand isn't close to an indication of what the reality of the NFL is. I don't see him translating at all well to the left side.

Phillip Gaines isn't the sum of his physical attributes. He's a good pass defender without being a big playmaker. Suspect hands/hand-eye for the INT. Poor tackler in the run game. IMO the Giants have fallen in love with and drafted too many of this type player. By that I mean guys that are better athletes than football players.


Thanks for the information. I still think Moses is the third best tackle in the draft, and the second best run blocker after Robinson. I also think he can play LT. He did so his senior season, and did well. His length is tremendous.

I would however be fine with trading back into the mid 20s, say with Cleveland at 26, if they gave us pick #35. Moses still might be around. If not, there is always CK, or Bitonio at #43. Both have played LT.

You correctly note that Gaines isn't a great run defender. But I like his size and ball skills. Strength can be acquired. His kind of speed can't.

Thanks again to everyone for commenting. Keep it coming.
I don't like to knock people are there choices...  
Amtoft : 4/21/2014 4:18 pm : link
..... Ok yes I do. That would be a horrible draft. Moses is a RT and while he may be able to slide over to the Left side which you would hope out of the 12th pick there is no way he goes top 15. A CB in the 2nd with all our needs and not only a CB, but a raw reach for one?
The best thing that could happen for us  
SGMen : 4/22/2014 1:20 am : link
Is that we trade down say four, five or even six spots and still get OL Z. Martin. We also pick up an extra #3 in the trade down and have ammunition to get an OC in round 3 while the quality ones are still around.

Rebuild the OL.

I really want DT Donald but I now believe he'll be gone by #12.
Back to the Corner