is his inability to block decently. He has to learn this - no doubt.
Other than that, he really had no chance last year. Getting tackled in the backfield time after time sucked and I blame that on the worst Oline in the NFL.
He's an explosive player. I hope this year he gets a chance to shine and prove his worth as a 1st round pick.
...see I think that was Wilson's fault. Great RBs lose 3 yards and end up skull fucked in the end zone. Great RBs make shaky OLs look good. Wilson is a mess until proven otherwise.
The one position that can cover up warts like no other is RB. It can also expose warts like no other.
Wilson can do all these things that Charles and Bush can do but his speed and talent are in need of some vision, patience and balance. Until he gains those gifts he's just another fast RB looking for a role in the NFL.
He's not just some speed RB, either. Wilson is built like a fucking brick. The dude is really strong. I think you have him pegged as a type of RB that he really isn't.
but Bush basically had no room to run but found room to run.
Wilson's a young player so maybe he figures shit out in 2014. It could happen. Some RBs need 2-3 years to develop. Tiki did. Charles did. Joe Morris did.
And dude, Reggie Bush was a major, major disappointment as a runner until he went to Miami and finally put it together and became a more complete RB. That was 6 years into his career. David Wilson has barely 20 games under his belt.
His vision/ability to read his blocks is his downfall Â
I wasn't comparing Wilson to Charles. Wasn't comparing their styles or apples with bananas. Was just pointing out that RBs typically have to thrive under duress. The best RBs thrive when the OL breaks down or the blocking breaks down.
And lets face it, last season was a bust all the way around.
No one is going to argue he needs to work on some of the mental aspects of his game but there's really no reason at all to assume that is something he is not capable of doing.
We are looking at the same types of issues with Reuben Randle right now.
RE: His vision/ability to read his blocks is his downfall Â
Right now it is.. doesn't mean it will be his entire career. And even still, I feel like it's become a bit overblown. It seems like when people talk about Wilson, they only consider what happened in 2013 and completely disregard everything in 2012 (except for the one fumble, of course)
i'm not saying that the book on Wilson has been signed, sealed and delivered yet. I'm just saying it wasn't all on the OL last year or in 2012. RBs need to make plays on their own. THat's life in the NFL.
FWIW Bush did catch 160 passes over his first 2 seasons. HE was a disappointment because the Saints traded 10 picks for his rights.
It seems we have this debate every month about DW Â
I agree. His weakness is picking up the fine points of teh game and that isn't too surprising for a 3rd year player who hasn't gotten a whole lot of reps. It's the learning curve most RB's in the league have to go through, and that's sometimes hard for fans to understand.
For every Leshon McCoy who can come in right away and go, most guys are like Wilson, including heralded guys who have bright spots, but also have blunders their rookie year. Just look at Giovanni Bernard. Had both flashes and hiccups.
I know, I'm talking about Bush strictly as a runner. It took him time to develop and become a guy you could really trust to hand the ball to a good amount. He struggled a lot his first few years.
All I'm saying is we gotta give Wilson some more time. That's all. There's a reason there was so much hype about him going into last season. He had a pretty solid rookie campaign. Between the neck injury, a horrific OL and just an offensive offense in general and the terrible year we had, it seems that all kind of fell by the wayside and now all of the focus is on him being disappointing.
I really, really think he just needs more of a chance. Hopefully he gets it.
My point ewas, and is, people need to stop trying to compare one guy with another. Like JonC said, the guys are apples to oranges and Charles is already a season player..
And the stats mean nothing..That does not tell the story of a RB..
Ok, that's all well and good.. but I wasn't the one who made the initial comparison and I actually pointed out myself how they differ.
Stats don't tell the whole story but they're also not meaningless. Wilson did have some strong showings his rookie year and he did make some plays. The idea is that Wilson, much like Charles came out of his rookie campaign leaving people hopeful and excited about his future. Unfortunately, 2013 went terribly wrong in every way imaginable.. which we're all aware.
I know and i was pointing you out on that. That was an older thread, but this happens all the time. A player will have a good year or maybe a few games (see Jernigan) and people are ready to project how well they are going to play and who they are compared to. We have seen this story too many times with this team and other teams..
Stats do tell some of story and Wilson did show potential in 2012. maybe it's just me..I like to wait to a guy shows, how e say in the military, sustained superior performance, before i get happy..
let a player grow first. give it a season and a half and see where their at..
but I don't think a RB all of a sudden develops great vision/instincts.
Players have a tendency early on not to trust their instincts when they are learning and thinking about everything. We see this all the time. After a few seasons when the player has caught up to the speed of the game and digested their playbook and responsibilities, they rely more on their instincts because they don't have to think as much. I don't know if that was the case with Wilson or not but I guess we will all find out.
He doesn't have to "all of a sudden", he can improve and have a normal career arc like a lot of other good RB's have. It comes with more reps and more experience. It's not like he's some fatally flawed player who can't get better.
He doesn't have to "all of a sudden", he can improve and have a normal career arc like a lot of other good RB's have. It comes with more reps and more experience. It's not like he's some fatally flawed player who can't get better.
What's an example of a RB with poor vision developing good vision? I can't think of one. I think its something you either have or you don't.
I know and i was pointing you out on that. That was an older thread, but this happens all the time. A player will have a good year or maybe a few games (see Jernigan) and people are ready to project how well they are going to play and who they are compared to. We have seen this story too many times with this team and other teams..
Stats do tell some of story and Wilson did show potential in 2012. maybe it's just me..I like to wait to a guy shows, how e say in the military, sustained superior performance, before i get happy..
let a player grow first. give it a season and a half and see where their at..
We mostly agree, I have always been a "wait and see" guy myself. I don't really go nuts about players either way in the early going. I think these guys need time before we can declare them busts or stars or really anything. Wilson is a guy with a ton of potential who has flashed but needs some work.. I think we'd all agree there. Let's see how he does in 2014.
developing instincts is something you will read about in the paper very often but RB coaches work to develop instincts with players all the time. I'm sure we can google and article about it.
He doesn't have to "all of a sudden", he can improve and have a normal career arc like a lot of other good RB's have. It comes with more reps and more experience. It's not like he's some fatally flawed player who can't get better.
What's an example of a RB with poor vision developing good vision? I can't think of one. I think its something you either have or you don't.
I think too much is being made of his vision. With more experience, he should improve and become a better player. He just needs more reps and more time.
You hear players all the time talk about how the game is so fast at first and then you adjust and it slows down a little. I think when he's more comfortable and the game slows down for him, he'll see the field better and be a better player as a result.
RE: Wilson definitely needs and deserves more time Â
And he needs to secure the ball, protect Eli and reduce mental errors or he will continue to get limited reps which will limit his development.
I think Randy is on the mark. Wilson has hindered his own development with the problems above. And it doesn't help that they keep shining thru on opening night to start his season in a hole. Take care of business or he will turn into the best first round KR in team history...
this looks like a pretty good article that came out on David Wilson as a pro prospect.
It mentions he needs work on his instincts and vision but that it can be improved upon and that he has pro bowl potential. It seems to be a pretty fair analysis.
Quote:
But I have learned over the past seven years that there are components of vision that runners can acquire once they become professionals. I’ve mentioned recently that NFL prospects have to learn to cut down their trips to the corner store if they want to help their offense become more efficient. Reggie Bush, Jamaal Charles, LeSean McCoy, and C.J. Spiller all had initial difficulties with this lesson and it took varying amounts of time for each to incorporate more discipline into their decision-making process.
Larry Johnson had to learn greater patience as a runner and he credited Priest Holmes. And the player that taught Holmes and Jamal Lewis was running back Earnest Byner. As you can see, this is an impressive crew of running backs that didn’t just pop from their mother’s womb and instinctively had the refined vision of an NFL runner. It’s a ridiculous notion that is lazily encouraged.
Quote:
David Wilson has the physical tools of a Pro Bowl RB, but the decision-making and patience of a college player. There's reason for optimism with this pro prospect, but find out his specific deficiencies as a runner based on film study.
Quote:
However Wilson is like most backs with top-notch athleticism. He believes in his speed and acceleration. He believes he’s the best athlete on the field. In fact, he’s probably correct to believe in this. What he doesn’t understand is that athleticism is only a tool in a running back’s arsenal. The solder might give that quick burn, but sometimes a well placed shot of the hammer is what’s needed.
Quote:
Even some of Wilson’s gains were demonstrations of immaturity. Wilson’s first carry of the second half was a two-yard gain on a 2nd and 5 run with 14:30 in the third quarter from a 12-personnel set. The unbalanced line with receivers 1×1 faced a 4-3 and Wilson took the exchange towards LG and LT collapsing the inside of the line from the strong side as the wing back sealed the outside and the TE on the line took on the SLB in the flat.
Quote:
If you agree that Wilson is a quality RB prospect and accept the fact that he has shortcomings to address before he becomes a consistent and productive NFL starter, then the question becomes “how long will his transition take?” I think one telling indicator is if a running back prospect flashes moments of NFL-caliber decision-making. Another is how often that back flashes these moments despite immature plays like the ones I profiled of Wilson in the previous post.
Quote:
Wilson’s great acceleration and willingness to bang into players without a lot of patience is reminiscent of Darren McFadden during the Raiders RB’s college career. Wilson has better cutting ability than McFadden, but like McFadden, CJ Spiller, LeSean McCoy, and Jamaal Charles, Wilson needs to learn to become a better decision maker at the line of scrimmage. He tries to bounce runs to the corner too often and he’ll even attempt to reverse his field once his initial bounce doesn’t work.
Quote:
Wilson is a “strong,” 205 pounds and I think he can probably add another 10 pounds to his frame as he matures. Talent-wise I don’t know if there’s a better runner in this draft other than Trent Richardson and Wilson probably has better speed and lateral agility. What he has to learn makes him more of a boom-bust pick, but I believe based on past history of backs like the ones I mention with my criticism of his game that Wilson will make the transition to a smarter runner that the NFL requires.
I'm just waiting for kmed to acknowledge that as well. =)
Cmon, does it even need to be said?? The OL was the worst part about our team last year and it hurt the RB's and Manning. I was just responding to what someone said earlier. Much like manning, while the OL hurt them big time, they also played poorly. My opinion regarding Wilson is very similar to FatMan in Charlottes opinion. I will not write him off, but he's been disappointing as a young player. I hope the new offense uses his explosiveness a bit more.
Tiki Barber was a fumbler and went on to have a great career (before turning into a huge douche bag). I hold out hope that Wilson will be a nice complimentary component along with Jennings (Who I think is going to have an outstanding season). You can't coach Wilson's burst and with a decent line in front of him, he could hit some home runs.
Other than that, he really had no chance last year. Getting tackled in the backfield time after time sucked and I blame that on the worst Oline in the NFL.
He's an explosive player. I hope this year he gets a chance to shine and prove his worth as a 1st round pick.
or did Greg just imply not only that he hopes a Hokie will succeed, but that said Hokie trash actually has talent?
The one position that can cover up warts like no other is RB. It can also expose warts like no other.
RBs don't get enough credit for being good when everything around them is bad.
Yeah, Wilson has never made any plays like that. Were you sleeping in 2012?
So 20 games into his career, David Wilson isn't Jamaal Charles.. who is probably a top 3 NFL RB right now. Big freakin deal.
David Wilson's rookie year:
71 attempts, 358 yards, 4 TD, 5.0 YPC
Jamaal Charles' rookie year:
67 attempts, 357 yards, 0 TD, 5.3 YPC
DW is more explosive and fast, close to 210 lbs and physical, breaks tackles, just needs more reps and patience.
David Wilson's rookie year:
71 attempts, 358 yards, 4 TD, 5.0 YPC
Jamaal Charles' rookie year:
67 attempts, 357 yards, 0 TD, 5.3 YPC
How dare you make a logical argument using stats!
I can only imagine the BBI board vitriol for Tiki early in his career.
Wilson can do all these things that Charles and Bush can do but his speed and talent are in need of some vision, patience and balance. Until he gains those gifts he's just another fast RB looking for a role in the NFL.
Wilson's a young player so maybe he figures shit out in 2014. It could happen. Some RBs need 2-3 years to develop. Tiki did. Charles did. Joe Morris did.
doesn't seem to suit Wilson very well...
No one is going to argue he needs to work on some of the mental aspects of his game but there's really no reason at all to assume that is something he is not capable of doing.
We are looking at the same types of issues with Reuben Randle right now.
Right now it is.. doesn't mean it will be his entire career. And even still, I feel like it's become a bit overblown. It seems like when people talk about Wilson, they only consider what happened in 2013 and completely disregard everything in 2012 (except for the one fumble, of course)
FWIW Bush did catch 160 passes over his first 2 seasons. HE was a disappointment because the Saints traded 10 picks for his rights.
For every Leshon McCoy who can come in right away and go, most guys are like Wilson, including heralded guys who have bright spots, but also have blunders their rookie year. Just look at Giovanni Bernard. Had both flashes and hiccups.
It is normal.
All I'm saying is we gotta give Wilson some more time. That's all. There's a reason there was so much hype about him going into last season. He had a pretty solid rookie campaign. Between the neck injury, a horrific OL and just an offensive offense in general and the terrible year we had, it seems that all kind of fell by the wayside and now all of the focus is on him being disappointing.
I really, really think he just needs more of a chance. Hopefully he gets it.
And the stats mean nothing..That does not tell the story of a RB..
Stats don't tell the whole story but they're also not meaningless. Wilson did have some strong showings his rookie year and he did make some plays. The idea is that Wilson, much like Charles came out of his rookie campaign leaving people hopeful and excited about his future. Unfortunately, 2013 went terribly wrong in every way imaginable.. which we're all aware.
And he needs to secure the ball, protect Eli and reduce mental errors or he will continue to get limited reps which will limit his development.
Stats do tell some of story and Wilson did show potential in 2012. maybe it's just me..I like to wait to a guy shows, how e say in the military, sustained superior performance, before i get happy..
let a player grow first. give it a season and a half and see where their at..
Players have a tendency early on not to trust their instincts when they are learning and thinking about everything. We see this all the time. After a few seasons when the player has caught up to the speed of the game and digested their playbook and responsibilities, they rely more on their instincts because they don't have to think as much. I don't know if that was the case with Wilson or not but I guess we will all find out.
What's an example of a RB with poor vision developing good vision? I can't think of one. I think its something you either have or you don't.
Stats do tell some of story and Wilson did show potential in 2012. maybe it's just me..I like to wait to a guy shows, how e say in the military, sustained superior performance, before i get happy..
let a player grow first. give it a season and a half and see where their at..
We mostly agree, I have always been a "wait and see" guy myself. I don't really go nuts about players either way in the early going. I think these guys need time before we can declare them busts or stars or really anything. Wilson is a guy with a ton of potential who has flashed but needs some work.. I think we'd all agree there. Let's see how he does in 2014.
Quote:
He doesn't have to "all of a sudden", he can improve and have a normal career arc like a lot of other good RB's have. It comes with more reps and more experience. It's not like he's some fatally flawed player who can't get better.
What's an example of a RB with poor vision developing good vision? I can't think of one. I think its something you either have or you don't.
I think too much is being made of his vision. With more experience, he should improve and become a better player. He just needs more reps and more time.
You hear players all the time talk about how the game is so fast at first and then you adjust and it slows down a little. I think when he's more comfortable and the game slows down for him, he'll see the field better and be a better player as a result.
And he needs to secure the ball, protect Eli and reduce mental errors or he will continue to get limited reps which will limit his development.
I think Randy is on the mark. Wilson has hindered his own development with the problems above. And it doesn't help that they keep shining thru on opening night to start his season in a hole. Take care of business or he will turn into the best first round KR in team history...
Absolutely agree. Tiki's vision and instincts developed tremendously as the years went on...
Tiki had laser vision surgery...so he had that going for him.
It mentions he needs work on his instincts and vision but that it can be improved upon and that he has pro bowl potential. It seems to be a pretty fair analysis.
But I have learned over the past seven years that there are components of vision that runners can acquire once they become professionals. I’ve mentioned recently that NFL prospects have to learn to cut down their trips to the corner store if they want to help their offense become more efficient. Reggie Bush, Jamaal Charles, LeSean McCoy, and C.J. Spiller all had initial difficulties with this lesson and it took varying amounts of time for each to incorporate more discipline into their decision-making process.
Larry Johnson had to learn greater patience as a runner and he credited Priest Holmes. And the player that taught Holmes and Jamal Lewis was running back Earnest Byner. As you can see, this is an impressive crew of running backs that didn’t just pop from their mother’s womb and instinctively had the refined vision of an NFL runner. It’s a ridiculous notion that is lazily encouraged.
David Wilson has the physical tools of a Pro Bowl RB, but the decision-making and patience of a college player. There's reason for optimism with this pro prospect, but find out his specific deficiencies as a runner based on film study.
However Wilson is like most backs with top-notch athleticism. He believes in his speed and acceleration. He believes he’s the best athlete on the field. In fact, he’s probably correct to believe in this. What he doesn’t understand is that athleticism is only a tool in a running back’s arsenal. The solder might give that quick burn, but sometimes a well placed shot of the hammer is what’s needed.
Even some of Wilson’s gains were demonstrations of immaturity. Wilson’s first carry of the second half was a two-yard gain on a 2nd and 5 run with 14:30 in the third quarter from a 12-personnel set. The unbalanced line with receivers 1×1 faced a 4-3 and Wilson took the exchange towards LG and LT collapsing the inside of the line from the strong side as the wing back sealed the outside and the TE on the line took on the SLB in the flat.
If you agree that Wilson is a quality RB prospect and accept the fact that he has shortcomings to address before he becomes a consistent and productive NFL starter, then the question becomes “how long will his transition take?” I think one telling indicator is if a running back prospect flashes moments of NFL-caliber decision-making. Another is how often that back flashes these moments despite immature plays like the ones I profiled of Wilson in the previous post.
Wilson’s great acceleration and willingness to bang into players without a lot of patience is reminiscent of Darren McFadden during the Raiders RB’s college career. Wilson has better cutting ability than McFadden, but like McFadden, CJ Spiller, LeSean McCoy, and Jamaal Charles, Wilson needs to learn to become a better decision maker at the line of scrimmage. He tries to bounce runs to the corner too often and he’ll even attempt to reverse his field once his initial bounce doesn’t work.
Wilson is a “strong,” 205 pounds and I think he can probably add another 10 pounds to his frame as he matures. Talent-wise I don’t know if there’s a better runner in this draft other than Trent Richardson and Wilson probably has better speed and lateral agility. What he has to learn makes him more of a boom-bust pick, but I believe based on past history of backs like the ones I mention with my criticism of his game that Wilson will make the transition to a smarter runner that the NFL requires.
David Wilson's Vision - ( New Window )
I'm just waiting for kmed to acknowledge that as well. =)
Cmon, does it even need to be said?? The OL was the worst part about our team last year and it hurt the RB's and Manning. I was just responding to what someone said earlier. Much like manning, while the OL hurt them big time, they also played poorly. My opinion regarding Wilson is very similar to FatMan in Charlottes opinion. I will not write him off, but he's been disappointing as a young player. I hope the new offense uses his explosiveness a bit more.