NFT: Knicks chat: Players rip Woodson?

Blame it on the guy who just left/got fired.

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Not sure how anyone can debate. They certainly weren't a very talented team, but they were more talented than they showed in regards to W-L. Just an awful job of coaching all season long.

the "talent" is vastly overstated. Potential would be the better word. if Shump, Chandler, Felton & JR play up to their potential, it's a different team. But I wouldn't call it a very talented team as thiose guys play horribly half the time.

exagerration. Players trash Woodson and then all they say is that the players said they had more talent then their record shows. That's a pretty crappy article compared to the title.

to their ability are Melo and Hardaway.

Everyone else had a shit year. They're a better team than they showed, but they horrifically underachieved.

he said there is talent on this team btu the way it was put together and the way they played on the court were not to their strength...

He also mentioned that the team when they won games won games on talent rather than a system...they won because their talent took over and relied to heavily on one on one basketball...

Like he said it a couple of years ago the roster is clumsy and needs tweaking and needs a system in place but the roster is going to be clumsy as long as you have 3 guys taking up all of the cap..

trade for JR Smith and would it be a salary dump or could we possibly get an asset for him?

I purposely changed the title of the thread from the "trash" to "rip" and put the question mark for that reason. I couldn't in good conscience post "Players trash Woodson" based on the article and quite frankly I don't believe they did/would. Trashing the coach to Phil only makes the players look bad. Suggesting specific reasons why they felt Woodson's coaching hurt the team? I could see that.

but the article title. Such a gross exagerration. I don't even think "rip" is the right word, but the "?" obviously means you might not either. I'd say, "players suggest Woodson did a poor job" or even "players blame Woodson" would be better than players trash Woodson.

would be dumb to place blame on Woodson if you were trying to make a good impression on Phil. Granted our team isn't full of brain surgeons but blaming yourself for poor play is the way to go. If you have specific examples of what you didn't think worked then I could see blaming Woodson (I wanted Woodson gone).

totally rooting against the Pacers hard now with the outside chance they can Vogel. I think the guy is an above average coach.

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idea how true it is but there have been rumors one of the pacers fucked another players wife/girlfriend and that's why they had that strange funk.

when most of the team underachieved (outside of THjr, Amare, Melo).
but also pretty expected comments when a guy is fired.

it was rip and not just commenting on style of play ect.
otherwise little to see.

in fairness (and I don't defend the Knicks very often) for all we know Jackson posed the question in a way that produced such answers. "What could the coaching staff have done differently?" etc

In comment 11635900 DanMetroMan said:

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idea how true it is but there have been rumors one of the pacers fucked another players wife/girlfriend and that's why they had that strange funk.

Classic nba rumor drama, but who knows.

I'd heard Lance Stevenson has been an issue and causing problems because he wants a contract and everyone else got paid.

have no money and he acts like a loon but he's the kind of player who joins a Phil Jackson team and becomes a solid citizen/star.

In comment 11635909 hitdog42 said:

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when most of the team underachieved (outside of THjr, Amare, Melo). but also pretty expected comments when a guy is fired.

This assumes that the players placed all the blame on Woodson and took no responsibility themselves. I do not believe this to be true. From most quotes I have read, many players expressed disappointment in their play. However, to Phil, it seems they also expressed disappointment in their system which was absolutely atrocious. I don't think speaking the truth about a horrible system is cowardly.

Also, the title grossly exaggerates the claims, so I wouldn't use the word cowardly without getting more info.

no question about that. Im sure the article is an exaggeration, i doubt the players went in there and crushed woodson, but if they were somewhat honest then it would come off like they crushed him a bit cause he did a crappy job. Whether you think the talent is overrated or not they were more talented then their win loss record

Not sure if it was discussed on a different thread but in the post article about phil wanting melo to be true to his word on the pay cut they mentioned using the 7.5 percent salary reduction after the first year, pretty interesting idea.

made a truly idiotic comment yesterday. Kornheiser said Melo should take the cut if he cares about winning and Wilbon said "Why? Phil got 60 million, why should Melo take a cut?" uh, there is no salary cap for FO people?

had his sit down with Jackson.

chandler has been on Woodsons case all season. He knew what was up.

by saying he's done a good job for the Knicks and that this year wasn't his fault. He understood that Phil would want "his guys" and he said that's fine, but said Woodson shouldn't be fired based on the job he's done. What a Maroon.

He really says some bizarre things, and his homer rager for anything Bulls/Derrick Rose-related is off-putting.

He got a lot of praise for his work last season, and rightfully so.
BUT
Look back at the job he did in the playoffs last season. Was a horrible job game in, game out. Then followed it up with the season. The only defense for not firing him is last years 54 wins. Reminds me of those who cling to Ike Davis and his 32 Hr season.

that's going to be Melo's bone of contention I don't want him here anyway. "But Phil you got 60 million which has zero effect on fielding a team, so I want every penny which has a massive effect"

to start playing itself out. Im really ok with any result except giving him the full max. If he stays great, i hope its a good contract, and then we wait for 2015. If he leaves then blow it up and lets try to get some assets and a good pick in the 2015 draft and then go all in on 2015 FA.

and it starts with the backcourt.

It is truly a crime that the Knicks have had such pathetic PG play in the Carmelo era. Melo is a pure scorer who should be at his best if he has a legit PG to run the offense. Besides one 25 game run by Lin, the PG play for the Knicks has been far below-average since Melo has arrived.

The Triangle changes things a bit because ball-dominant PGs aren't valued as much in that system. So the Knicks are no longer in the market for a guy like Rondo. But Triangle or no triangle, the Knicks need to upgrade the PG position.

The rest of the team isn't exactly loaded with talent either. The x-factor is clearly Shumpert. He looked like he had 15 PPG + All-NBA 1st team D type of potential last year. That's a pretty nice 2 way ceiling. But Shumpert's offense was brutal this year and his defense also took a dip. 15 PPG + Great D is a very different player from 10 PPG + Good D. Which one is closer to Shumpert's true potential? That will have an impact on the Knicks' future.

TH Jr. had a nice rookie season but he needs to become more than a JR Smith type of scorer off the bench. Chandler's decline was also a big reason why the Knicks struggled this year.

The 2014 Knicks had 40-45 win talent. So they did underachieve a little through poor coaching but it's not like they were absolutely loaded with talent.

I thought they overachieved last year, due in a large part to playing in an absolutely terrible division. This year, I didn't see any significant improvement, while they lost a very good shooter (Novak) and their leader on the court (Kidd). That said, given their division and conference and some of the players they had, I thought they should still contend for the division and definitely make the playoffs. Their W-L record and the effort that got them that record are disgusting. I put a lot of that blame squarely on the coaching staff and front office.

I don't know enough about Kerr as a coach. But, I am thrilled with Jackson coming in and cleaning house, regardless of who he ultimately decides should coach. He is working on a complete overhaul of the atmosphere and chemistry within the organization. This is sorely needed.

you tank like you have never tanked before and get Okafor...

leaves. Just trade Chandler for whatever you can get and hopefully find a couple young guys with upside and play them. Dont upgrade the PG position, start Amare at C, etc.. To be honest if Melo leaves maybe rehire woodson for the year!

of the Suns picks for Chandler i do it whether Melo is leaving or not..

for JR Smith? I think he's gotta go.

unless a team like Milwaulkee wants him for a guy like Oj Mayo who had a horrible year for them...

I really dont see it..

Phil Jackson does not want JR Smith or any player like JR Smith.

regardless of Melo's status. He was outplayed virtually every night, regardless of the caliber of the opposing big men. His game fell off the cliff late last year when he was sick and hurt. He never recovered this year. Even his strong suits of defense and rebounding were embarrassing this season.

not on a rookie contract(or league min) should be shopped and traded for assets.

I agree. Outside of Melo, there is no one who consistently did anything other than suck for the last 2 years. Can you imagine where this team be without him?

In comment 11636101 kmed said:

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Phil Jackson does not want JR Smith or any player like JR Smith.

Phil wanted Ron Artest. Phil wanted Dennis Rodman.

2 time world champion and for as crazy as he was he had a very high bbiq...Rodman was nuts but he was a championship player..

I would trade Smith if someone is willing to take him just because it gives more flexibility for 2015, but I think Smith is a decent fit for the triangle and I think Phil can get his craziness under control

values shooters, I think some of you are assuming he won't like JR Smith when JR Smith may in fact be a guy Phil thinks he can mold.

becaus ehe wouldnt be asked to go one on one every single time down the court..he would be a spot up shooter which is what he is best at...

Pacers' GM Kevin Pritchard tweeted that Larry Bird's sources say that Frank Vogel's job is safe.
This tweet comes as a tongue-in-cheek reply to reports that Vogel may be "coaching for his job" in the first round of the playoffs. The Pacers head to Atlanta tied 1-1 with Game 3 looming on Saturday. Vogel may very well be coaching for his job, but it's obvious that Bird and Pritchard want to grab control of this situation before the media runs wild with it. Well played, Mr. Pritchard.

In comment 11636147 MookGiants said:

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In comment 11636101 kmed said: Quote: Phil Jackson does not want JR Smith or any player like JR Smith. Phil wanted Ron Artest. Phil wanted Dennis Rodman.

I knew someone would make those comparisons and they are terrible. Artest and Rodman were team players. JR Smith is not. It's not just about them being idiots.

he has a low bball IQ and he is an absolute moron. I would bet Phil Jackson wants nothing to do with guys like that on his team. He is not a team player at all and that's what Phil Jackson wants first and foremost.

was not a team player until Phil was his coach.

Phil always thinks he can mold guys. Smith is one of the few shooters the knicks have, and in the triangle thats incredibly important.

Secondly, you are making things up. Artest was always a team player. He was batsh*t crazy, but he was always a guy that would fight(literally) for his team. JR Smith isn't even close to the players Artest and Rodman were, not even close to being in the same conversation.