Raanan NJ.com: NYG prefer Martin to Lewan; cooled on Ebron

In comment 11643650 Wonderphil11 said:

Quote:

if Martin, Beckham Jr., Donald and Barr are all available at 12. Each represents a real need....OL, WR, top pass rusher...very interesting to see which direction they would go. The wild card would be Ha Ha given the Hill situation.

Beckham should be there, no? I think he's at best the 3rd WR, I'd be shocked if 3 WR's went before pick 12.

I think the safety that would tempt them is Pryor more than Dix, but agree safety might be in play now.

In comment 11643655 JonC said:

Quote:

Suit yourself. I know where the info was likely sourced, of course, anyone with common sense would be able to surmise it could change over the next ten days, or never come to pass in the end. But, I've heard the last four 1st round picks ahead of the draft and vetted all through Eric, for the record.

Jon - i am not doubting you so don't need to be defensive. Who is the likely source? And what does that mean "you heard" as in the Giants #1 choice if he is there or a guy on a longer list of preferreds?

Also, Eric is really plugged in and is told pre-draft who the Giants will pick if available? That's pretty cool.

Can you give me reasons as to why you think Ebron is a diva? Like some kind of example. Everybody uses that when talking bad about Ebron, but I have asked 3 times now for an example and I have not got one.

I think Martin may be the best OL available at 12 and I do like Martin over Lewin. I am also glad to hear they are not considering Ebron because in my mind he's not the complete TE and therefore not worth pick that high.

I just hope the Oline is addressed with the first pick because all the elite OL guys will be gone by round 2.

In comment 11643673 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

If it was Barr, they probably see him as a DE.

Barr doesn't have the physicality to beat tackles as an end. Bitonio totally shut him out in their matchup. His best fit is as a 3-4 OLB.

but that's hardly high praise.

I like Martin and would be happy if we drafted him. I'd hope, however, that he ended up being closer to a Pro Bowler than a solid starter, given our draft position.

one peep about is barr. and of course that could mean we love him or hate him.

Barr's college coach Jim Mora Jr. (who knows a thing or 2 about pro DEs) said he would pick him #1 overall and reminded him of John Abraham, Demarcus Ware, Pat Swilling and Chris Doleman.

Quote:

Mora has already told a few coaches that Barr has the frame to bulk up and fill a similar role (as Abraham) at the next level. "I do think he could weigh 260 pounds and maintain his speed and quickness, to play defensive end for a 4-3 team. He was our right end in nickel. He didn't feel comfortable going down (with a hand in the ground) and just rushed from a two-point (stance). He'll get better at that." That's the scary part for teams that elect to pass on Barr early in the draft. With scouts frequently talking about how high a prospect's ceiling is, Barr might just have the highest of anybody on the defensive side of the ball.

Mora on AB - ( New Window )

one hears things...

Sometimes you think it must be smoke...and the Giants are playing around to mislead...but that doesn't seem to be the case at times.

But it usually does the bulk of fans no good because you are told, "This is what I know, but you can't say anything." So why say anything at all? I think people want to prove they are plugged in somehow.

Also, the draft is fluid. Prospects who were not supposed to be there are still there, and guys who were supposed to be there are gone.

Last year, well before the Giants picked, I was told, "they are going to draft a RB and it isn't the one you think it is...but you can't tell anyone until right before the pick."

many OL's get named a game MVP? How many are the team captain for two years in a row at a major program like Notre Dame? How many can play virtually any position on the OL?

high character. innate work ethic. freak athlete and frame. all the boxes are checked

the BBI reaction if it is one of the safeties? Sy'56 would be thrilled.

what you guys are saying about Barr, but

a) with all that speed, why couldn't he be a BIG Will LB?

b) in today's NFL, wouldn't a LB with his size/speed combo be ideal to blitz, play some DE on obvious passing downs and even try his hand at covering the Jason Witten's of the world? it seems we get caught up in positions and forget what Seattle reminded us all of, namely to play simple, get 11 fast/aggressive guys and be disruptive

is that a fair point or is this guy not a fit?

Vernon Davis wasn't a complete TE when the 49ers drafted him. He probably wasn't as good a football player as Ebron, but he was a better athlete. He was the 6th overall pick and I don't think anybody would say any different.

Shockey wasn't a complete TE, but prior to injuries he was definitely worth the 14th pick. We might not draft him, but people use terrible reasons to not like him. He isn't a great blocker and a diva. Most college TEs aren't good blockers coming out of college, because they aren't asked to do it much. Doesn't mean he can't be taught.

Because in a 4-3 defense, the LB spends more time dropping than coming forward.

Doesn't mean he can't do it but it would be a waste of talent.

while not quite as gifted, Jeremiah Attachou has some similar qualities

going down the projections to the 5th round range, Prince Shembo also has some similar traits

but on the other hand, we took sintim in the 2nd round and gave O'brien Schofield $8M for 2 years. the schofield interest may've tipped our hand we're in the tweener market again

(you can never have too many tweeners)

Quote:

Last year, well before the Giants picked, I was told, "they are going to draft a RB and it isn't the one you think it is...but you can't tell anyone until right before the pick."

I think you mean two years ago, right? Not last year when Pugh was the selection.

Just a really, really low risk that he's not a very solid player.

I'm not defensive at all, you're mistaken, but I can't say more. Martin is high on the list, and I've heard that from several directions. Pay attention to Phil in LA as well. As the draft draws close I hope to know the pick, Eric very often hears the same info as me at some point.

is the most logical OL choice for this team based on his versatility alone. He provides insurance at OT and OG while getting ready to take over for Snee or Beatty in the future.

I would not be disappointed with him as the pick at all.

and not GM's.

As for what was said....GOOD. Cannot fathom how dumb picking Ebron would be.

JOMO25
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9:41 am : link : reply

Because in a 4-3 defense, the LB spends more time dropping than coming forward.

Doesn't mean he can't do it but it would be a waste of talent.

-->> what if he were a traditional 4-3 WILL on downs 1-2 and on 3rd and long type situations, a guy like Jacquian Williams comes in for Barr and Barr moves to DE for Ayers. Just saying that a little bit of creativity allows this guy to be a disruptive force.

would play what position? LB or DE?

You're still wasting Barr's best skills on two downs.

Testing well doesn't mean he can actually play in space when live bullets are flying.

would have to be blind not to have had Martin as a strong possibility with the 1st pick a few months ago....just makes too much sense

Barr I think he would be wasted as a LB in our system, that relies on the front 4 for pass rushing. I don't mind a safety either in the first round especially since we don't know if Rolle will be back. Brown is on a 1 year deal, I believe, and Hill probably won't last here.

In comment 11643729 Wonderphil11 said:

Quote:

would have to be blind not to have had Martin as a strong possibility with the 1st pick a few months ago....just makes too much sense

Exactly. You don't have to be a beat reporter or have connections to know that a guy like Martin would be in play.

while the upside of other players may get a lot of attention, there is just a lot of common sense that would go into a solid versatile O-lineman like Martin, in the biggest problem area that we have now and in the near future.

.

this also. Martin over Lewan makes sense and saying no to a TE @12 in this draft makes sense too.

But have to admit of all the picks probably on the Giants board...Martin is the lowest risk plug and play player...If we were to draft Marin...I see him as a 10-12 year plug and play player and immediate starter...he is probable the next "Snee"

This draft has been way over analyzed so I would expect for the media to have an idea, just like us of whom the Giants will probably end up with. I Would expect Martin but if Matthews did slip I wouldn't be shocked by a move up to 9 or 10. Both guys seem extremely safe and I would be happy with both.

"people want to prove they are plugged in somehow" too.

In comment 11643633 Emlen'sGremlins said:

Quote:

Martin is not even close to being a Pugh clone. He's more talented and plays nastier. Most pro personnel people are comparing him to Logan Mankins.

When I see the Pugh reference its not about talent or nastiness. Almost every review says he is more talented than Pugh. When they say clone they are referring to his ability to possibly play anywhere along the offensive line, the fact that he is a technician, the reality is that he doesnt have the prototypical size and measurables (shorter arms) and that he probably has a very low ceiling but a high floor. You could plug him in and he would be a ten year starter..

In comment 11643685 Big Rick in FL said:

Quote:

Can you give me reasons as to why you think Ebron is a diva? Like some kind of example. Everybody uses that when talking bad about Ebron, but I have asked 3 times now for an example and I have not got one.

Thats my assessment from seeing the interviews I have seen of him. He is a guy who likes the spotlight. Talks about himself a lot (not his team).. Continually talks about his ability and what a tough mismatch he is.. how there are very few people as athletically gifted as he is.. blah blah blah..

Im not saying thats a BAD thing.. confidence is great and every player should have it.. he just seems like the Diva type of player who wont mesh well in a Coughlin offense where as a TE he better be excited about doing the dirty work and the little things..

You really think the Giants personnel department gives a rats ass about what the fan base's reaction is to their picks?

will be good litmus test.

If they draft Ebron, then they've gotten better at misdirection since everyone early associated them with Ebron and now the scuttlebutt is in the obvious direction.

If they draft Martin, then they still aren't great at hiding their intentions.

opposite (not obvious) direction

the Giants had developed a preference for Martin over Lewan, Matthews, Ebron, etc., why on God's green Earth would they share that preference with a journalist?

all this junk from the media in the lead-up to the draft is just click bait. they know nothing about what the team's internal thought processes are. nothing. these articles carry the same weight as a BBI thread on the merits of picking Aaron Donald.

Thanks!! Don't see that as a diva at all. I haven't heard anything negative about him from teammates or coaches. Haven't heard anything about him talking bad to his QB or arguing with coaches.

Any interview I have seen with him he has seemed very intelligent. When asked about college everything he answered was we. "We got better as the season went on." "We lost to Miami, but we fought until the end" is stuff that I have read. When asked about his Pro Day or why teams should draft him he has stated that he looks better in person then tape or that he can beat people all over the field. That is what he should say IMO. He is trying to sell himself to teams. I appreciate your reply since nobody else has replied to me. Just don't see that as a diva at all.

If you have time or remember what interviews you have seen could you possibly link them? Maybe I'm missing something about him. It would be greatly appreciated. I just see people calling him a diva as they have nothing bad to say about him as a football player so they play the diva card. Thanks if you can link those interviews!

people throw the "diva" term around a little freely nowadays. when i think "diva" i'm thinking of terrell owens - a guy who is going to be a constant distraction from week to week. Ebron is certainly confident in his athleticism (and rightfully so, he's an athletic freak), but i don't see him as causing major distractions if he doesn't get as many looks as he would like. i don't see him throwing his hands up in frustration all the time like Shockey did, for example. i could be wrong on that, but i just don't see it.

what i do see is a mismatch nightmare at TE the likes of which we haven't had on this team in a long time. Eli needs a #1 WR AND a TE and it strikes me that we could potentially kill two birds with one stone by drafting Ebron. i see him as a Jimmy Graham type of receiver. now, that might not necessarily work for a Coughlin offense (block first, catch passes second), but i'm thinking Tom is going to have another of his epiphanies this year and will let McAdoo control most of the offensive scheming. if that's the case, i certainly hope we go into the season with a dynamic, pass catching TE. and there's nobody like that on the roster currently. not even close.

In comment 11643821 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

will be good litmus test. If they draft Ebron, then they've gotten better at misdirection since everyone early associated them with Ebron and now the scuttlebutt is in the obvious direction. If they draft Martin, then they still aren't great at hiding their intentions.

If they draft Martin, then maybe their intentions were fairly transparent anyway...

In comment 11643592 JonC said:

Quote:

I've heard Martin's name for some time as a target, and it's likely Raanan's source is Mike G, which bodes well for the info.

You guys are funny. You think I can bring another media member to my boss as a source? Not quite. Love Mike G though. He is a friend. Great guy.

Just wanted you all to know I check out this site often and I enjoy the conversation.

Ban Him!!!!

Not sure why you would use another media member as your source either

In comment 11643842 Big Rick in FL said:

Quote:

If you have time or remember what interviews you have seen could you possibly link them? Maybe I'm missing something about him. It would be greatly appreciated. I just see people calling him a diva as they have nothing bad to say about him as a football player so they play the diva card. Thanks if you can link those interviews!

cant go through every link and interview for the last six weeks.

In comment 11643867 JordanRaanan said:

Quote:

In comment 11643592 JonC said: Quote: I've heard Martin's name for some time as a target, and it's likely Raanan's source is Mike G, which bodes well for the info. Fair enough, Jordan. You guys are funny. You think I can bring another media member to my boss as a source? Not quite. Love Mike G though. He is a friend. Great guy. Just wanted you all to know I check out this site often and I enjoy the conversation.

No, the personnel department doesn't give a rat's ass about fan perception - and they shouldn't - but the public relations and market departments care deeply about fan perception.

That's an insane comparison.