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The anti-Donald pick

Still a Sam Huff fan : 5/6/2014 9:13 am
1) The very best thing the Giants can do for their defense is keep them on their asses a little longer. Cut the three and outs and our defense will play a whole lot better. How do you cut the 3 & outs? Certainly not by getting another defensive player.

2) The defensive side of the ball does need help but not nearly as much as the point scorers. Try to remember when Eli was able to step up into the pocket and look at his options. Wow. We heard words like "First Down" and "Touchdown". Last year we heard "pick sixes and sacks". He needs time to be the good Eli.

3) Let's not forget about who we have on the team right now. Sure we lost LJ. But we have the accounting team of Hankins & Jenkins for the middle. Don't count JPP out and look at the new and bigger Mr. Moore at 270 pounds.

4) Maybe, just maybe, Will Beatty was hampered last year by things that will not be a factor this year. Maybe he had to cover for an ineffective Guard or he was injured or whatever. If he's okay, fine. If not, we need help on the line.

5) Doubling Victor Cruz is something we HAVE to avoid by putting better options out there.

I'm sure Mr. Donald would be a fine addition to our team but IMHO, we are in dire need on the other side.

.  
Big Blue '56 : 5/6/2014 9:15 am : link
Quote:
....Try to remember when Eli was able to step up into the pocket and look at his options. Wow. We heard words like "First Down" and "Touchdown". Last year we heard "pick sixes and sacks". He needs time to be the good Eli....


He wasn't able to for a lot of 2012 either
I'd  
AcidTest : 5/6/2014 9:19 am : link
go for Martin or Beckham, probably the latter. Just such an explosive receiver. Fantastic year, great combine, hard worker, and a kick returner.
Can't disagree all that much,  
Big Blue '56 : 5/6/2014 9:20 am : link
but Jenkins is getting longer in the tooth
the violent world of Sam Huff!  
blapre74 : 5/6/2014 9:24 am : link
great moniker. I just dont think Donald is going to be a great NFL player. Hes not Bob Lilly, thats for damn sure. They have so many needs on O. receiver, TE, Guard and Tackle. Good post, guy. :)
the more I read...  
Mike in St. Louis : 5/6/2014 9:24 am : link
and I know a lot of it is BS, the more I think we won't even have a shot at Donald...
BB 56  
Still a Sam Huff fan : 5/6/2014 9:25 am : link
I know but so is Eli. We need to get him some help now while he can still perform. The guy had to be groggy by the end of games the way he was being hit.
Its all a cute way of saying  
UConn4523 : 5/6/2014 9:26 am : link
we need a better OLine more than another guy on D. This isn't a false statement, its actually one I agree with. But this doesn't take into account whether or not the Giants think Donald is a game-changing DT, which he may very well be.

If they do think that, i'm fine with the pick. You can never have enough exceptional players and if he helps take the defense to the next level, how can you pass on that?
RE: I'd  
ANGPASS : 5/6/2014 9:26 am : link
In comment 11656203 AcidTest said:
Quote:
go for Martin or Beckham, probably the latter. Just such an explosive receiver. Fantastic year, great combine, hard worker, and a kick returner.


agreed. Beckham jr looks like another cruz. try doubling two of him.
You could have said...  
Klaatu : 5/6/2014 9:27 am : link
"The best defense is a good offense" (James T. Kirk, The Empath), and I'd agree with you.

For the record, I don't think Donald gets past Tampa Bay, anyway.
blapre  
Still a Sam Huff fan : 5/6/2014 9:28 am : link
"The Violent World" was a great show. I'd love to see it again. Maybe on youtube?
i totally understand your logic  
GiantsFan84 : 5/6/2014 9:39 am : link
and if Donald was just a run stuffer I would agree. But he is a pass rushing force from the DT position. Those guys are very, very rare. If you have a chance to take a potentially dominant pass rusher from the DT position you really can't pass that up.
Sam Huff Time Mag  
blapre74 : 5/6/2014 9:43 am : link
Dick James for Sam Huff. doh!
Hi Marty  
Marty866b : 5/6/2014 9:49 am : link
Don't forget,Jenkins is going to be 34 years old. Donald is a gamble on greatness. Martin is most likely going to be a guard. I'm not sure you pick a guard at #12 unless his name is John Hannah.
giants fan  
blapre74 : 5/6/2014 9:54 am : link
how do we know hes a force. he could be, but do Jints want to take a chance on a 12th pick, thinking hey, this guy is deacon jones or richard dent? he might be. I want to see him get around Joe Jacoby first. Even LT couldnt do that. :)
If Donald is  
TMS : 5/6/2014 9:55 am : link
as good and highly regarded by the rest of the teams as his chorus here, he will not get to our pick. Which means others have doubts about the size issue and his impact as well. Then he is a gamble the last thing we need this year.
I was on the bandwagon  
River Mike : 5/6/2014 9:56 am : link
for Donald, now having second thoughts. His size may or may not be a handicap in the pros, but if it is, we've wiffed on a first rounder when we can't afford to. I'd go offence and avoid significant question marks.
John HannaH?  
blapre74 : 5/6/2014 9:56 am : link
he's in this draft? he's be the first pick. :)
river mike and PMS  
blapre74 : 5/6/2014 9:58 am : link
good posts. My sentiments. The giants cant afford to guess. just go by value and bpa regardless of position, unless they have a choice: e.g. wr or ol, :)
Except  
Deej : 5/6/2014 9:59 am : link
what if you rate Donald as a difference maker, and the OL/WR options as ho hum? Or the OL/WR options as not significantly better than what is available in round 2-3/FA? What if you think none of the available OL are going to start over our tackles -- are you then taking a guard at #12?
RE: You could have said...  
ImaGiant86 : 5/6/2014 10:00 am : link
In comment 11656220 Klaatu said:
Quote:
"The best defense is a good offense" (James T. Kirk, The Empath), and I'd agree with you.

For the record, I don't think Donald gets past Tampa Bay, anyway.


From a few Tampa Fans...

Quote:
Horrible. Because this isn't madden and not all defensive tackles are interchangeable. Donald is a 3-tech tackle. Even if he were 20 lbs heavier, drafting him would be stupid because all of his natural gifts would be marginalized playing the A gap. And if you recommend shifting arguably the best 3-tech tackle in the game to the A gap, and playing Donald in the B, may god have mercy on your soul.
If Donald were Donald and we could get him in the 3rd, I might think it's a good idea. But wasting the seventh overall pick on a backup is silly.


Another..

Quote:
McDonald, McCoy, Johnson and Clayborn will be a formidable force on the line this season. We don't need Donald.


Tampa has a glaring hole at WR with no one to start opposite Vincent Jackson, if Evans is sitting there they'll take him.



How would y'all feel about Aaron Donald at #7? - ( New Window )
If Donald is not in the cards for the Giants...  
Klaatu : 5/6/2014 10:01 am : link
Then I hope they draft Jay Bromley (Syracuse) later on. He's a local kid (Flushing) who overcame an incredibly troubled upbringing (you can read about it on Defenderdawg's thread) to become a damned good player and a team captain for the Orangemen. Get him on the team, let him learn the pro game from Jenkins and Patterson, and he and Hankins will be a force to be reckoned with on the D-Line.
The comparison of  
TMS : 5/6/2014 10:04 am : link
Cruz and Beckham is a good one. Similar quickness, speed and hands. Both of them would present uncover-able options for ELI like we had when Nicks was at the top of his game. Beckham could replace the old Nicks starting this year.
blap  
GiantsFan84 : 5/6/2014 10:13 am : link
every pick is a risk, so saying that about Donald can be said about anyone.

Donald dominated the college game his final season, dominated the combine, dominated the senior bowl...how much more does the guy have to do?
Hey Marty  
Still a Sam Huff fan : 5/6/2014 10:17 am : link
Leaving first thing tomorrow. Heading northbound. Not happy about it.

We'll disagree on this one: How do you NOT take a Guard at #12? We'd be growing a solid group of young guys for a long time. Pugh, Schwartz, Martin? Beatty? Uhhh Walton? Maybe not Walton. How about a center in round two or three to lock up the line for ten years? No more patchwork.
In the division, Washington and Philly  
penAndDrink : 5/6/2014 10:28 am : link
are loading up on offense.

The Giants defense was probably worse last year than it looked statistically, since they were lucky to catch a string of games against back up quarterbacks. Jenkins and Patterson are stopgap guys, and Kuhn is a question mark.

RG3 may be rejuvenated (tho I am not yet convinced), and Nick Foles may be the new Tom Brady. (I hope to hell not, but he had an amazing year, and even made Riley Cooper look like a star.) Also, remember 2012, when the Giants couldn't stop the run at all. What a bad feeling that was.

In other words, if Donald is the elite defender that many analysts are describing, he would make sense for the Giants at 12.

I know that all of this has been repeated over that last month, but I might as well get in my 2 cents before the draft.
I think Donald  
mrvax : 5/6/2014 10:31 am : link
is the best play maker in this draft. We'll see what the Giants think in 2 days.
Aaron Donald vs Justin Pugh  
ghost718 : 5/6/2014 10:31 am : link
Playing right defensive end

Thought some might be interested in this,lifts him right off the ground.

Think the only questions with Donald are how good he'll be(not if he'll be good),and will he stay healthy.

Link - ( New Window )
Beatty sucks ans blaming his play  
LauderdaleMatty : 5/6/2014 10:53 am : link
On guards is bullshit. He was bitched by Ziggy Ansah one on one and bing a fucking pussy and letting Jared Allen Reach literally reach around him had nothing to do with his other line mates.

He's soft and weak. Sad to say that about a guy who is that huge but he's nothing but an average LT on his best day


The other points are better.
I would grab either Lewan or Martin and not look back  
PatersonPlank : 5/6/2014 11:08 am : link
If Lewan, plug him in at LT and let him and Pugh be our bookends for 5 years (with Beatty as a quality backup).

If Martin, lets see what Beatty can do.
- If he can revert to form then stick Martin in place of Snee. In this scenario Snee could help out at center if Walton sucks, and Martin could back up at Tackle in a pinch.
- If Beatty can't, the plug in Pugh at LT and Martin at RT. Once again Beatty becomes the quality backup.

Either scenario would resolve the OL issues. Martin gives us more flexibility, but Lewan could be the next Jumbo.
I doubt now that Donald will be there  
jeff57 : 5/6/2014 11:13 am : link
I think Oakland, Tampa or Minnesota will grab him.
This is where I think people are getting this wrong  
BillT : 5/6/2014 11:15 am : link
Quote:
I'm sure Mr. Donald would be a fine addition to our team but IMHO, we are in dire need on the other side


I see tons of this here and from the press and if you think this is a good reason to take Martin I think you're wrong. There is only one reason the Giants should take Martin and that's because he's the best player available when they pick. He may be that but if so why all the "the Giants need an OL" stuff instead of he's going to be the best guy available when they pick. I don't know who will be the best player available but I don't think it's Martin.
Marty  
Marty866b : 5/6/2014 11:28 am : link
I like tackles picked this high. I think we can get a quality guard a round or two later. As long as we come away with two offensive linemen from this draft I'll be happy. Like I've said for months though,Zach Martin has NY Giant written all over him.
barr would  
SBlue46 : 5/6/2014 11:31 am : link
Be better...eli needed an
Oline...we got a little
Better in FA. We need 1
Stud OT in Draft. ..
Eli has a running game
Now and he has better
OC we hope and better
Blocking. He needs a deep
Threat wr and te...I also
Believe w a few D picks
And ko and punt returns
Eli will have short field..
If we can get stud D player
In 1st take him since wr and te
Can get value later..I want a speed
Guy who is a threat
Agree with huff 100%  
#10* : 5/6/2014 11:59 am : link
Offense is broken and this is a big year for Eli. QB's make their living on 3rd down and lately Eli has been horrendous on 3rd. I think it has been more scheme than anything but he needs more weapons.

If I gave him a 1st round Olineman this year and he still had a bad 3rd down ratio after this season he wouldn't be starting for me the following year.
RE: I think Donald  
Big_Blue_Wrecking_Crew : 5/6/2014 12:14 pm : link
In comment 11656398 mrvax said:
Quote:
is the best play maker in this draft. We'll see what the Giants think in 2 days.


I like him over Clowney as he has 10x the desire and work ethic and almost as good freak athleticism relative to his position. Mack may be the only player I take over him defensively.
Anybody bother...  
Ed A. : 5/6/2014 4:38 pm : link
to look at the depth chart at DT? Hankins in his second year, Jenkins 33 years old, Patterson 31Years old and just a rotational player at this point and Kuhn. Giants built a pretty good secondary and updated the LB's with the re-signing of Beason and the addition of McClain. However, all goes for naught if they can't stop the run and generate a pass rush. They will score 30 points and give up 40. I really want Donald at 12.
RE: RE: I think Donald  
mrvax : 5/6/2014 6:23 pm : link
In comment 11656658 Big_Blue_Wrecking_Crew said:
Quote:
In comment 11656398 mrvax said:


Quote:


is the best play maker in this draft. We'll see what the Giants think in 2 days.



I like him over Clowney as he has 10x the desire and work ethic and almost as good freak athleticism relative to his position. Mack may be the only player I take over him defensively.


Gotta improve the pass rush, it won us the last 2 SBs (and Eli too.)
They could go after Barr and try to make him a DE I suppose. He's best at 3-4 OLB at this point. Can't wait for Thursday night.
Giants fan 84  
blapre74 : 5/7/2014 7:52 am : link
Everything u say is credible, but they said the same things about Rich Glover, DT from Nebraska, drafted by the Giants. He was a huge bust. how much he does will be on him. btw every choice is not a risk, e.g. john elway, Lawrence Taylor,Randy White...Donald is a huge risk, because he is so small. Offensive linemen in NFl will give this kid fits. good luck to him, just not on my giants.
Donald...  
Jimmy Googs : 5/7/2014 8:48 am : link
he is not a huge risk...he has some risks;
he is not so small...he is just not big;
some O-lines will give him fits...he will give some back too.

I am not even a huge AD supporter, but the kid looks like a player and I won't be sad if he stays out of the NFC East.

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