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Conversation with wife about draft tonight...

Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/10/2014 11:17 pm
My wife is a smart enough woman to know to stay away from me during the draft as she knows this is the busiest 3-day event of the year on the site.

But when it is all over, she is curious to know what happened.

I finally get a chance to sit down on the couch after putting the kids to bed. She pours me a glass of wine.

Wife: "How did they do?"

Me: "Mostly OK. Drafted a bunch of team leaders and smart guys."

Wife: "Did they finally get someone to block for Eli?"

Me: "One guy."

Wife: "That's it?"

Me: "Yup."

Wife: "What about guys signed after the draft?"

Me: "None that I can tell yet."

Wife: "What the hell are they doing?"
I was asking myself the same thing.  
Geomon : 5/10/2014 11:20 pm : link
Does she have a sister?
Naaahhh.  
Klaatu : 5/10/2014 11:21 pm : link
Too easy.
Bless her heart...  
Damon : 5/10/2014 11:22 pm : link
She's a saint.
Eric,  
robbieballs2003 : 5/10/2014 11:25 pm : link
I just had a conversation with my soon to be wife. It ended after one sentence.

She said, "Imagine guys had nipples on their balls."

Hahahaha, how do you follow up on that.?
I was really hoping for 2 guys  
LPete : 5/10/2014 11:29 pm : link
inside the first 4 rounds. I think the Bromley pick annoyed and disappointed me the most as guys like Gabe Jackson or Michael Schofield were sitting there for us. Jackson especially...

Oh well. It is what it is. Nothing I can do about it.
Oh. My. God.  
Kulish29 : 5/10/2014 11:30 pm : link
Eric's wife has been trolling us the entire draft...
Negative Nancy?  
AnnapolisMike : 5/10/2014 11:30 pm : link
You better be planning a nice Mother's Day Eric. That and stop fretting about the line. They must have a plan that has a chance of working. Show a little faith...
I'm happy  
MookGiants : 5/10/2014 11:31 pm : link
with the one guy they did take but I think they needed at least one more in the first few rounds. I don't think the front office believes that the offensive line situation is that bad. But then again they didnt last year and they were clearly wrong, their philosophy on the offensive line has come back to bite them the last 3 years.
RE: I'm happy  
robbieballs2003 : 5/10/2014 11:36 pm : link
In comment 11671239 MookGiants said:
Quote:
with the one guy they did take but I think they needed at least one more in the first few rounds. I don't think the front office believes that the offensive line situation is that bad. But then again they didnt last year and they were clearly wrong, their philosophy on the offensive line has come back to bite them the last 3 years.


Mook, they added three possible starters. If everything works out then we are in great shape. The problem even in the best case scenario is where is the depth. Best case scenario is that Beatty gets healthy and returns to form which allowed him to sign the contract he did. Walton comes back from two years off and stabilizes the center position. Richburg starts right away at right guard. Pugh develops. Schwartz continues to improve. That means Snee is our backup and who else? Brewer? What about our tackles?

It is definitely worrisome.
I thought they'd do more this offseason.  
bceagle05 : 5/10/2014 11:39 pm : link
The line will obviously be improved (no place else to go but up), though I was expecting another quality guy in free agency to go along with Schwartz, rather than depth signings. One more OL and one fewer DB, for example.
my sentiments...  
Jan in DC : 5/10/2014 11:52 pm : link
exactly. Its hard for me to get upset about picks and all, considering I don't know anything about any of these guys except for scouting reports I read about them, but I really thought the offensive line warranted more attention than one pick. While I was glad to see that we finally drafted an interior lineman, I'm still convinced that Reese is just allergic to drafting any OL position but tackle.
I really don't understand...  
2ndroundKO : 5/10/2014 11:53 pm : link
the "we need more o-linemen" crowd. We were 7-9, folks, we need more of everything. We've almost completely revamped the o-line. Pugh is solid at RT, we have a swing tackle in Brown, excellent competition at the Guard positions (Schwartz, Snee, Jerry, Brewer, Mosley and Hermann) and we expect Beatty to bounce back. Sh*t, JPP has been just as mediocre and injury prone lately and I don't hear people calling for him to be replaced.

The o-line will sort itself out. I thought we needed a back-up C and a swing Tackle headed into the draft and we got the highest rated C. The key is cohesion but either way we've addressed the problems there and I'm excited to see how it all shakes out.
Don't be such worriers  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/10/2014 11:58 pm : link
Mara, Coughlin, and Reese are all quite aware of the beating Eli took. It's not like they've been in denial about the need to fix it. They brought in 3 potential new starters and new depth competition.

Team has been a playoff contender for most of a decade and a two time champion , and at the first sign of restructuring, you can't lose faith in the process and the IQ of the people who put it together.
Maybe, just maybe  
Marty866b : 5/11/2014 12:01 am : link
They plan to sign another free agent is June. Otherwise, what happened the last three days makes little sense.
i read an article in espn  
krymzontyde : 5/11/2014 12:01 am : link
About LeCharles Bentleys year long offensive lineman program. Great read if u can find it.

Anyways Schwartz is part of that clientel and credited his best year and new contract to LB's training.

Weston Richburg was the only rookie of the group. I'm hoping adding 2 of these guys has a huge impact
RE: RE: I'm happy  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/11/2014 12:02 am : link
In comment 11671247 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 11671239 MookGiants said:


Quote:


with the one guy they did take but I think they needed at least one more in the first few rounds. I don't think the front office believes that the offensive line situation is that bad. But then again they didnt last year and they were clearly wrong, their philosophy on the offensive line has come back to bite them the last 3 years.



Mook, they added three possible starters. If everything works out then we are in great shape. The problem even in the best case scenario is where is the depth. Best case scenario is that Beatty gets healthy and returns to form which allowed him to sign the contract he did. Walton comes back from two years off and stabilizes the center position. Richburg starts right away at right guard. Pugh develops. Schwartz continues to improve. That means Snee is our backup and who else? Brewer? What about our tackles?

It is definitely worrisome.


They have backups in spades. Brown has been a backup. Mosley showed enough to keep as a backup. Jerry is a backup.

You can only carry 7 OL on game day, so don't think you need a backup at all 5 line positions.
RE: I really don't understand...  
trueblueinpw : 5/11/2014 12:03 am : link
In comment 11671263 2ndroundKO said:
Quote:
the "we need more o-linemen" crowd. We were 7-9, folks, we need more of everything. We've almost completely revamped the o-line. Pugh is solid at RT, we have a swing tackle in Brown, excellent competition at the Guard positions (Schwartz, Snee, Jerry, Brewer, Mosley and Hermann) and we expect Beatty to bounce back. Sh*t, JPP has been just as mediocre and injury prone lately and I don't hear people calling for him to be replaced.

The o-line will sort itself out. I thought we needed a back-up C and a swing Tackle headed into the draft and we got the highest rated C. The key is cohesion but either way we've addressed the problems there and I'm excited to see how it all shakes out.


+1
here's the article if  
krymzontyde : 5/11/2014 12:04 am : link
If you care to check it out
Link - ( New Window )
I'd say they didn't like any of the remaining tackles  
djm : 5/11/2014 12:05 am : link
And maybe the Beatty situation isn't as dire as once thought.

They did address the OL position. I went into this offseason hoping the giants would bring in two legit vets and one legit draft pick. And I got that and maybe a little more when you add in the other backup types that were signed in FA.

You can't force picks if the value isn't there. I just hope bromley was worth the pick as it was pretty high. I guess that's the one worrisome pick. The rest look pretty safe to me.
Only so many OL can make the team  
Rudy57 : 5/11/2014 12:08 am : link
I dont know much about the draft but it seems the value at OT was not there for the Giants at 12. In the 2nd we took a C, he is going to make the team and either be a backup to Walton or the starter.

We addressed the OL in FA in a big was as well. I just don't get the sky is falling mentality from the OL perspective. We look much better off on paper than we did last year. Also factor in the Blocking TE we signed should help improve the blocking. The potentially new screen passes the OC wil bring to the table should help the OL as well. The Giants haven't been able to run a screen in ages it seems.

Where else was a rookie going to come in and improve this team on the OL in 2014? I don't think a rookie tackle after the 1st round was going to come in and be better than what we have now.
it's not as if picking just any Tackle  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/11/2014 12:11 am : link
For the hell of it fixes anything. Pugh is the RT. he's good at it.

Charles Brown is a swing tackle backup.
Schwartz can play RT
Don't know if they're keeping brewer

Richburg says he can play Guard and has played Tackle as well.
John Jerry is a backup guard
I liked Mosley's efforts last season, and he's a converted tackle too.

What they might have needed was a Left Tackle. They didn't leave one on the board. There was never one available to them after Lewan got picked.
RE: I'm happy  
speedywheels : 5/11/2014 12:13 am : link
In comment 11671239 MookGiants said:
Quote:
I don't think the front office believes that the offensive line situation is that bad.


That's ridiculous. They addressed the line in FA.

Now, you (and others) might not like the guys they acquired, but it's bullshit to say they didn't believe the line needed improvement. They wouldn't have signed FOUR guys otherwise...
we can say they needed more of everything  
islander1 : 5/11/2014 12:14 am : link
but seriously, how much better would are offense have been if Eli wasnt running for his life every other play.

A shitty offensive line ruins the entire team. The ENTIRE team.

With a shitty offensive line, you can't control the line of scrimmage and the clock. With a shitty offensive line, you can't pass the ball, much less run it.

It doesn't matter how good your defense is, if they are on the field for 40 minutes, you are going to lose.

I am just a small time college fan so I don't pretend to know what some of these draft picks will result in...I just know that the end result will be jack shit unless we find 6 or 7 lineman who can actually do their damn job well for once. The volume of free agent signings worry me. It's unusual that these types of overhauls work out well. That's the kind of stuff the Redskins do...and look how bad they've been and for how long. Offseason Champs amounts to nothing.

At least the shitty run blockers of 2012 could pass block worth a shit, so Eli could literally carry our non-existant running game to the SB. Hard to give Reese credit for that considering what Eli had to overcome.
how fans  
B in ALB : 5/11/2014 12:30 am : link
Can possibly think that media fed, limited video information allows them to have a better view of the college draft than the professionals who depend on the results of their picks for their livelihood is beyond me.

Great. Your wife heard you complain about protection for Eli. Or she saw him get smashed last year. Wonderful.

All of a sudden she's an expert, the mouthbreathers on bbi are validated, and every poster on the internet knows more than the pros.

Draft is a failure. And the non football people are right.

Awesome.

How about...  
2ndroundKO : 5/11/2014 12:32 am : link
we give this revamped line a shot before we start b*tching? I suspected the Giants weren't taking a guy like Martin in the first because we already have plenty of competition at guard. Not everyone can start -- that would have been a silly pick in round 1. Actually, I didn't understand the draft a Guard talk, period. Why are still moaning, guys? We have like 15 o-linemen on the depth chart. We've addressed that issue and quite frankly, I'm more worried about Eli and where the pass rush is coming from.
RE: RE: I'm happy  
MookGiants : 5/11/2014 12:35 am : link
In comment 11671287 speedywheels said:
Quote:
In comment 11671239 MookGiants said:


Quote:


I don't think the front office believes that the offensive line situation is that bad.



That's ridiculous. They addressed the line in FA.

Now, you (and others) might not like the guys they acquired, but it's bullshit to say they didn't believe the line needed improvement. They wouldn't have signed FOUR guys otherwise...


I think they addressed one position on the line in free agency. Schwartz will be a solid player.

Walton hasn't played in over 2 years, sorry but I dont think signing a guy like that is addressing anything. Could it work out? Sure, but it's unlikely and relying on him would be a mistake imo.

Jerry and Brown both suck imo. They'll provide some depth I guess but the Giants will be a lot better off if neither one sees the field.

I don't think they deserve the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the line anymore. It's been a disaster for a few years. I like Schwartz and like the center in the second round, but I'm still very concerned about RG and LT. Just hope Beatty bounces back, they clearly believe he will based on the draft.
What O-lineman  
hoopy3 : 5/11/2014 12:37 am : link
drafted in the 3rd round or later would truly improve our O-Line situation heading into this season (which is what everyone on BBI seems to be concerned with). The Giants have 15 O-lineman on the roster at this point. I believe they found their stating center for the next decade (barring injury) in round 2. Centers drafted at this point seem to have a very high hit rate in the NFL.
Would any Tackle drafted in the 3rd round really make an improvement to this team right now. I would venture to say the free-agents brought in are likely just as good as anyone we would have gotten there (hence why they are 3rd round and later picks). Even if Beatty isn't up to snuff, I do not see any lineman drafted at that point starting at LT (or RT for that matter assuming they swing Pugh over to left in that situation).
Not to mention that the D-line has as many question marks. Potentially 2 new starters who were rookies last year (Moore and Hankins). JPP has been inconsistent and injured...We also have very little depth at the position.
The only other option was to take a lineman in rounds 1 and 2 and potentially get 2 starters. Yes, i agree that would have been good for the O-line, but we have large hole at receiver with the Nicks departure. Heck, even with Nicks there it seemed like we had little depth at the position.
Regardless most on BBI were clamoring for Donald in round 1 and am O-lineman in round 2 (myself included)...or Zack Martin in Round 1 and a TE or DE in round 2. Either way the fact that the Giants improved what was likely the weakest part of the O-line (I am sorry m but having Walton who hasn't played in 2 full seasons and has had a devastating ankle injury being the only real player that would be standing directly in front of Eli is far from ideal).
I am not sure there was anything more we could do with the picks we had going into this year. Not to mention there is still time in free agency.
RE: how fans  
2ndroundKO : 5/11/2014 12:38 am : link
In comment 11671301 B in ALB said:
Quote:
Can possibly think that media fed, limited video information allows them to have a better view of the college draft than the professionals who depend on the results of their picks for their livelihood is beyond me.

Great. Your wife heard you complain about protection for Eli. Or she saw him get smashed last year. Wonderful.

All of a sudden she's an expert, the mouthbreathers on bbi are validated, and every poster on the internet knows more than the pros.

Draft is a failure. And the non football people are right.

Awesome.


Agreed. I remember debating with MookGiants before the draft and he was convinced the Giants needed to draft two o-linemen early (why, I don't know -- maybe he missed free agency). Bottom line is that these so-called rankings before the draft mean squat. And just because we didn't draft whomever some felt was a "top four offensive lineman" doesn't mean we're doomed.
also  
MookGiants : 5/11/2014 12:40 am : link
want to add that they realize the line was a problem last year, but going into the draft I think they believe they fixed it for the most part. I personally think they are wrong about that and putting too much stock into the Walton, Jerry, and Brown signings. If even one of them is a decent player I'd be surprised.

But this is the line they have now and we just have to hope its good enough. If Beatty bounces back the line should be fine, if not we could be in some trouble.

I would have liked Martin, but I can see the need for Beckham, too.

Just wish they took another lineman in the first 4 rounds, even though I realize they would not have helped for this specific year, I just would like another guy to possibly develop. A big reason why they were in the position they were last year is because they simply did not invest many high picks on the OL since 2005. Beatty and Pugh are the only 2 in an 8 year stretch being drafted in first 3 rounds.

They believe they addressed the line. We will have to see about that I guess
why do you keep pointing  
MookGiants : 5/11/2014 12:43 am : link
to free agency and automatically assume that guys who havent played in 2 years and guys who sucked last years are going to be part of the solution? You can sign a bunch of guys, doesnt mean they are any good.

Jerry seems to be insurance for Snee, but is he any good? We will see.

Brown was an abortion for the Saints last year.
Mosley, Brewer, Hermann  
2ndroundKO : 5/11/2014 12:44 am : link
and co. will get a real good look this year. Last year, injuries and a lot of shuffling around really hurt them. It's high time we develop what we already have. The last thing we need is another red-shirt year from some new guy just because certain folks feel we just had to get more o-linemen.
RE: why do you keep pointing  
2ndroundKO : 5/11/2014 12:46 am : link
In comment 11671313 MookGiants said:
Quote:
to free agency and automatically assume that guys who havent played in 2 years and guys who sucked last years are going to be part of the solution? You can sign a bunch of guys, doesnt mean they are any good.

Jerry seems to be insurance for Snee, but is he any good? We will see.

Brown was an abortion for the Saints last year.


Why do you keep assuming whomever we "should've" drafted would somehow fare any better?
this isn't  
MookGiants : 5/11/2014 12:50 am : link
just about this year for me. I think having a great offensive line that is young and can stay together for a while is incredibly valuable. Just signing stop gaps like Jerry, Brown, and Walton to fix the failures of the draft isn't ideal. Continuity on the line is huge, bringing in guys on 1 year deals and just rotating guys each year doesn't work. When the Giants had the same 5 starting those few years in a row despite not being the most talented group they really were a good group, they played together very well.

A lot of eggs right now are in the Will Beatty basket. We'll see if it pays off. Between the injury and just how bad he was last year it's hard to be optimistic.
Not saying  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/11/2014 12:52 am : link
we should have drafted this guy or that guy.

Merely pointing out that might wife did clarify something that I think she is 100 percent correct about.

If they haven't significantly improved the line, then nothing else will matter.

1/5 of the Giants runs last year were for losses. The Giants were constantly in 2nd and 3rd and long. And when Eli dropped back, he was under immediate duress with one legit target (Cruz). Now he has another target. And they have a center for the future. But these FAs they signed better pan out and Snee and Beatty had better rebound. If not, you guys will say McAdoo sucks.
one thing  
MookGiants : 5/11/2014 12:52 am : link
that scares me about Snee is I dont see Coughlin benching him if he's healthy enough to play but playing terribly. He wouldn't do it to Diehl, and Diehl coming back from injury against the Steelers in 2012 and taking the spot of Locklear was the beginning of the end of our season.
RE: this isn't  
2ndroundKO : 5/11/2014 12:56 am : link
In comment 11671320 MookGiants said:
Quote:
just about this year for me. I think having a great offensive line that is young and can stay together for a while is incredibly valuable. Just signing stop gaps like Jerry, Brown, and Walton to fix the failures of the draft isn't ideal. Continuity on the line is huge, bringing in guys on 1 year deals and just rotating guys each year doesn't work. When the Giants had the same 5 starting those few years in a row despite not being the most talented group they really were a good group, they played together very well.

A lot of eggs right now are in the Will Beatty basket. We'll see if it pays off. Between the injury and just how bad he was last year it's hard to be optimistic.


Just what are you talking about? Walton is a stop-gap...yeah and? Did we not just draft Richburg? You somehow think that the competition between Schwartz, Snee, Jerry, Brewer, Mosley and Herrman at guard isn't enough? Serious? Your only somewhat valid point is with Beatty and he's had more good years than bad. Don't have an issue with the Giants expecting a return to form with better parts around him. And as far as getting younger, aside from Snee who exactly is old? Oh, I get it, we should just draft another o-lineman...just because.
RE: Not saying  
B in ALB : 5/11/2014 12:59 am : link
In comment 11671322 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
we should have drafted this guy or that guy.

Merely pointing out that might wife did clarify something that I think she is 100 percent correct about.

If they haven't significantly improved the line, then nothing else will matter.

1/5 of the Giants runs last year were for losses. The Giants were constantly in 2nd and 3rd and long. And when Eli dropped back, he was under immediate duress with one legit target (Cruz). Now he has another target. And they have a center for the future. But these FAs they signed better pan out and Snee and Beatty had better rebound. If not, you guys will say McAdoo sucks.


Ok fine. But the football people in charge of the decisions feel differently according to both their draft strategy and free agency to this point.

So why is anyone's opinion valid at this point in relation to the people who do this sort of stuff for a living? Let it play out.

And with respect don't start threads that perpetuate the belief that this draft is already a bust without a snap of football, a workout, or even a positional meeting playing out.

It's petty, unprofessional and short termed simple minded.
RE: one thing  
2ndroundKO : 5/11/2014 1:00 am : link
In comment 11671323 MookGiants said:
Quote:
that scares me about Snee is I dont see Coughlin benching him if he's healthy enough to play but playing terribly. He wouldn't do it to Diehl, and Diehl coming back from injury against the Steelers in 2012 and taking the spot of Locklear was the beginning of the end of our season.


I'd be more inclined to believe this if he didn't just take a hefty paycut in the off-season.
B in ALB  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/11/2014 1:05 am : link
I always respect your opinion, but I'm not bad-mouthing this draft or perpetuating anything.

I'm merely pointing out my firm belief that if they don't fix the line, there are going to be significant problems.

RE: B in ALB  
2ndroundKO : 5/11/2014 1:07 am : link
In comment 11671335 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I always respect your opinion, but I'm not bad-mouthing this draft or perpetuating anything.

I'm merely pointing out my firm belief that if they don't fix the line, there are going to be significant problems.


I firmly believe that the Giants believe they've done that. We can speculate at every position.

What if JPP is a one-year wonder?

If Eli is noodle-armed going forward?

On and on. I guess that's what these forums are for.
Not just because  
MookGiants : 5/11/2014 1:09 am : link
they need better players along the line. Especially at tackle. They are in this position on the line because of years of neglecting it in the draft. You win games up front and they took one offensive lineman in the first 3 rounds from 2005-2012. Since Snee was drafted, they haven't drafted and developed one interior lineman worth anything. Free agent signings hid this problem for years, guys like McKenzie wound up being one of the Giants best free agent signings ever, Ohara was very good signing too.

If they would have used more high picks on the OL in previous years they likely wouldn't have been in the situation they were last year and wouldn't have to go out in free agency signing a bunch of guys to try and fix the line.

My problem with Beatty is I fear he could be a guy who just isn't that passionate about football and isnt going to give his all after getting his one big pay day. His play last year before he got hurt was so bad it's just crazy to think the guy in previous years could be the same player.

I dont want stop gaps anymore along the line. I want to build a very good young offensive line that can stay together for a while, and the place to do that is through the draft, not free agency.

I have no expectations for Brewer, Hermann, Mosley. They havent shown much of anything to date and the Giants developing lineman that they drafted over the last 10 years speaks for itself.

If Brown is needed this year, I believe the offensive line is in trouble. And then you need to cut Beatty, which means you're then with a huge hole at either LT or RT (depending if they move Pugh, although we dont know how he would be at LT). And they wouldn't have any real options on the roster to solidify that position.

I like the center pick. I like the Schwartz signing. I don't like the situations at RG and LT right now. And this is assuming the center will play well as a rookie, which is probably a stretch but im optimistic about it. Thankfully they are not putting all their eggs into the Walton basket, despite paying him a nice chunk of money.

We will see what happens. Some of you want to just automatically give the front office the benefit of the doubt on the offensive line and the decisions they've made when its been a mess for 3 years now.
We have five new..  
2ndroundKO : 5/11/2014 1:11 am : link
o-linemen. 15 overall. We've addressed the position. Pray tell, who should the Giants have gotten?
they haven't  
MookGiants : 5/11/2014 1:13 am : link
hit on one lineman drafted after the 3rd round since Diehl. Combine that with not using enough top picks on it and its easy to see why the offensive line has been a real issue for a few years.
What exactly...  
2ndroundKO : 5/11/2014 1:15 am : link
is your point? How many QB's did we hit on before Eli? Nonsense.

Tell me who should've drafted. I'm all ears.
RE: B in ALB  
B in ALB : 5/11/2014 1:16 am : link
In comment 11671335 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I always respect your opinion, but I'm not bad-mouthing this draft or perpetuating anything.

I'm merely pointing out my firm belief that if they don't fix the line, there are going to be significant problems.


That goes without saying. You know I'm always oline first and build from there.

But I have to have faith that the FO and staff feels that they're well on the way to correcting the line's deficiencies with the FA pick ups and limited population during the draft.

I can't fathom that the draft somehow worked THEM...rather than the Giants working the draft.

Am I thrilled by their picks? I can't say that. But at this point in my lifetime of knowing, playing, coaching, and having a perspective-related view of football I'm not comfortable with simplifying their picks with a pass/fail grade at this point.

That stuff is for the media, fantasy players, and casuals.

But you're  
MookGiants : 5/11/2014 1:16 am : link
assuming those new guys that they got are all good players.

Brown was a train wreck last year. You're comfortable with him at LT if Beatty isnt ready to go?

The type of thinking that you have right now is the exact reason why they are in this situation in the first place. Not developing any interior lineman since Snee, not hitting on a 4th-7th round lineman since Diehl, and not using enough 1st-3rd round picks on offensive line since 2005. That leads to them having to try to always fix the line through free agency, which is a bad plan. Free agency should be used to solidify positions, not fix them entirely.

Reese and the front office deserve the benefit of the doubt when it comes to most positions. But OL and LB are the two positions they dont deserve the benefit of the doubt anymore.
It's amazing...  
2ndroundKO : 5/11/2014 1:18 am : link
The Giants haven't hit on an o-lineman in the draft since Diehl. Well then I guess the o-line has been horrible since then. Oh wait, you mean we signed some solid FA's during that time, some of whom were castoffs? Well I'll be damned.
it's not my job  
MookGiants : 5/11/2014 1:25 am : link
to determine who they should have drafted. There were enough guys that went in the 3rd and 4th rounds to get another player. I don't pretend to be an expert on the draft, I like guys more than others in the first round and sometimes 2nd but I dont know enough to really ahve much of an opinion after that. 10 lineman went in between their 3rd and 4th round picks.

I just think they have not placed a real importance on offensive line in the draft over the last decade. They continue to think free agency their offensive line issues. I hate that strategy.

You seem to think that their failures on the offensive line have nothing to do with not using enough high picks on them in the past and not developing anything after the first few rounds. I don't agree with that at all, it's the reason they are in this position in the first place, and now have to try to fix it with free agency because it was so bad last year
RE: it's not my job  
2ndroundKO : 5/11/2014 1:28 am : link
In comment 11671358 MookGiants said:
Quote:
to determine who they should have drafted. There were enough guys that went in the 3rd and 4th rounds to get another player. I don't pretend to be an expert on the draft, I like guys more than others in the first round and sometimes 2nd but I dont know enough to really ahve much of an opinion after that. 10 lineman went in between their 3rd and 4th round picks.

I just think they have not placed a real importance on offensive line in the draft over the last decade. They continue to think free agency their offensive line issues. I hate that strategy.

You seem to think that their failures on the offensive line have nothing to do with not using enough high picks on them in the past and not developing anything after the first few rounds. I don't agree with that at all, it's the reason they are in this position in the first place, and now have to try to fix it with free agency because it was so bad last year


So then I'm to assume you don't know who they should've drafted, right? As I said, you believe they should've just drafted...somebody. Anybody. Alrighty, then.
the o-line  
MookGiants : 5/11/2014 1:29 am : link
has been horrible for 3 years.

Free agency worked for them with McKenzie and Ohara. People dont appreciate McKenzie enough around here.

But I dont think that strategy will work again. They were very fortunate. It didnt work with Baas, he sucked. They didnt sign anyone anywhere near the caliber of McKenzie either, they gave him a shit load of money.

Fixing positions that are a train wreck pretty much through free agency is a mistake. You need to fix the position long term through the draft.

why does it matter  
MookGiants : 5/11/2014 1:31 am : link
who I think they should have drafted? I dont watch tape of players like they do.

I do know that they have ignored the position in the draft for way too long and it has blown up in their face finally. And their solution to fix it seems to be mostly through free agency, which I think is a big mistake
anyways  
MookGiants : 5/11/2014 1:38 am : link
I'm going to bed, we're clearly not going to agree on this, thats fine. You believe they are doing enough to address it in free agency/draft and think thats a fine plan, I don't agree. We'll just have to wait and see who is right over the next couple years. I certainly hope I'm wrong, but I just think they wont truly fix this offensive line situation until they invest more top picks in fixing it. Beatty being healthy and playing up to his contract would fix most of the issues, so lets just all hope for that
True we only drafted one O -lineman  
steve in ky : 5/11/2014 1:51 am : link
But lets not forget they signed five free agents to the OL as well. So if they would have drafted two at the OL but signed only four FA's people would be complimenting for addressing the need?
I really don't...  
2ndroundKO : 5/11/2014 1:53 am : link
know what you're moaning about. The Giants have a nice blend of draft picks and free agent signings at the offensive line positions. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't we just draft our starting RT in the first round last year? Bet you didn't see that coming. And the guy slated to man the other side in the second round? How about the Center we drafted this year?

What now then? Did you want us to take a Guard? We have a nice blend there too and at least one position nailed down with Schwartz. As for the other G position? No, Steve Hutchinson won't be manning that. But maybe, just maybe, the Giants expect the battle between Snee, Mosley, Jerry, Brewer and Hermann -- all but one in their 20's -- to net at least one starter.

I'm surprised that a person so focused on the draft such as yourself believes everyone of these young guys, all entering pivotal years, are somehow destined to fail. I doubt that. And if you don't have a solution other than "we should've drafted someone in the middle rounds, who I don't know but still" then chill out and trust in the ones paid to do that, the ones who have brought you only one losing season in God knows how long and two nights of ecstacy, do their jobs.
Mook  
Rudy57 : 5/11/2014 2:15 am : link
The great OL that you talk about that was together for 5+ years only had 2 drafted players on it, Diehl and Snee. McKenzie was a FA, Suebert/Boothe was an undrafted FA and Shaun O'Hara was a FA. We have more drafted players on the current team set to start in Beatty, Snee and Pugh. Also last season we had no center since Baas was either injured or just flat out stunk. You have to think that if our current group at least stays healthy they are better than what we threw out there last season.

I am pretty sure you mentioned above that any OL may not have helped the team this year, but with Eli closer to the end than the beginning the Giants are still in win now mode and as pathetic as we were on O last year we still managed to win 7 games.

Through the Draft and FA the team has improved over what we had on the field last year due to injury and/or ineffectiveness. Did the moves improve us enough to win 3-4 more games and get us in the playoffs? we will have to wait and see.

They should've drafted Martin in the 1st.  
Emlen'sGremlins : 5/11/2014 3:05 am : link
After They Didn't, They Should've Traded Up In The 2Nd To Grab Botonio Or Sua Filo. Terrible Job.
islander 1...  
M.S. : 5/11/2014 3:28 am : link
... precisely!

You hit the nail on the head.
B in ALB...  
M.S. : 5/11/2014 3:33 am : link
...there has got to be a happy pill for you, or something.
Perhaps the entire lynchpin of the O-line Depends Upon...  
M.S. : 5/11/2014 3:55 am : link
...Will Beatty. And you'll excuse some of us if that doesn't make us feel too comfortable.

Here's a guy who had one strong year-- his walk year -- then signs a fat juicy contract, and then comes in and plays like a street FA.

Put on the fucking tape of the Carolina game if you have any doubt.

Now... our 2nd Round selection was huge because we not only sucked at LT, but we sucked up the middle. And it says here this guy comes in and starts real soon at Center!

What I can't understand is why any idiot poster on this thread would mention Brewer in the mix for anything except a guy with size who sucks.

And as for the 3 vets we brought in... that ain't no way to build a future offensive line. It's a stop-gap measure to shore up the interior that includes a semi-retired Chris Snee.

We've got Pugh, we've got Schwartz, we've got a promising shiny new Center, we hopefully got a developing Moseley... and after that we've got a lot of hopes that everything pans out, because if it doesn't we are looking at 5-6 wins.

Eric's wife is a lot smarter than some if the posters on this thread.
Rudy 57...  
M.S. : 5/11/2014 4:12 am : link
...when we signed Mck we paid him like he was a prized FA.

Do you know why?

Because the former Jet developed into a top flight RT who was heavily sought after by many teams in free agency, and who solidified the RT position for us for a good 7 years!

It doesn't mean anything to say we didn't draft him. When we signed him, he was playing like a very high draft pick, and he gave us several good years in which he played like a first rounder.
OL  
stretch234 : 5/11/2014 5:27 am : link
If you look at things this way.

Schwartz replaces Boothe
Walton/Richburg replace Baas/Cordle
Snee replaces Dehil
Jerry replaces Reynolds
Brown replaces Brewer

They brought in 4 FA OL who have NFL game experience and still young and talented. Brown was a 2nd pick and Jerry was a 3rd - they have ability and their depth is much better

I really do not know if you find guys from the 3rd round on as good
A few points  
DavidinBMNY : 5/11/2014 5:39 am : link
1) Addition by subtraction - Diehl, Baas as veterans were shot and the team is better without them.
2) The giants believe on the roster they have talent,if they only drafted 1 player, they may already moved up some of the players on the roster
3) in the offseason Snee took a few of the OL under his watch, lifting with Herman and Snee and developing their bodies and some cohesion.
4) Flaherty is still the OL coach.
5). Watch the preseason. Last year our 2nd unit was worse then other teams third unit and it wasn't close.
6) This is mst likely Snee's final season. The NYG look a year ahead Snee's replacement is already on the roster. I think it is Mosley and I honestly believe the NYG really, really like Mosley. And in a very limited span of PT end of the year he looked ready. I think Mosley is going to chchallenge to start.
7) Usually NYG Let drafted players play out there contract. brewer is going to really be challenged to make the team, and that is a good thing
I'm afraid the Giants  
GiantJohn : 5/11/2014 6:36 am : link
Shit the bed with Beatty. I don't think he will play well. That said I think they needed a new left tackle. Hope I'm wrong but don't think I am. Wish we had tried to move up and get Martin. If I'm right I think GM and coach could be gone at the end of next season. I do hope I'm wrong.
OL Help  
Jintfan50 : 5/11/2014 6:51 am : link
They clearly had a higher grade on Beckham than Martin, but I believe the pick would've been Lewan, if he were available.
Apart from Schwartz, the FA signings are stop-gaps..  
SB : 5/11/2014 7:00 am : link
..we could have drafted Snee's long term replacement and didn't. I believe we should have drafted an guard in addition to C. There were several top-ranked OGs on the board in the 3rd Round when we drafted Bromley.

So Eric, your wife is very smart.
Posts like this annoy the hell out of me  
SB : 5/11/2014 7:10 am : link
Quote:
So why is anyone's opinion valid at this point in relation to the people who do this sort of stuff for a living? Let it play out.


No shit we aren't NFL executives. This is a fan site, last time I checked. We share opinions. Apparently that's not allowed anymore because we don't actually work for an NFL team? During game days, are we no longer allowed to question play calls because we don't coach for a living? Should Eric shut down the forum all together?

Or better yet, if someone has an opinion you don't agree with, how about address it instead of blasting someone's opinion as invalid because they don't "do this sort of stuff for a living."
If they can't field a better oline from the 15 they now have then  
gmen1234 : 5/11/2014 7:12 am : link
that will really be something.
And my wife  
SwirlingEddie : 5/11/2014 7:13 am : link
sneaking a peek at the screen during the draft read the headline "3 Pro Bowlers on Roster" and asked,

"What does it matter if they're good at bowling?"
I don't get the ol is fine crowd  
JoeCabbie : 5/11/2014 7:17 am : link
I'm not an expert so i just give my opinion and move on. No reason to harp on it or act like I know more than the front office.

The oline last year was the worst I've ever seen. Worse than in the 70's and it wasn't just last year. In our SB year, the oline was awful the first part of the year, but put it together for the end and the playoffs. Since then a disaster. It's been years since we've seen quality oline play. Just because once upon a time the Giants put together a monster line out of cast offs doesn't mean it's easy to do. We've been trying to rebuild it like that and failing for years now.

The only ones I have more faith than question marks are Pugh, and Schwartz. Richburg has great potential and I love the pick even though i wanted him at 3. the truth is good oline go before they're projected or where their projected, they rarely drop. Moses was the only one I saw drop and I wasn't high on him, so in my mind it wasn't a drop.

Some here have more confidence in journeymen olinemen than our WR's who would have all looked better last year if our oline could give Eli more than a second and a half.

In the end i'm a Giants fan so I love the draft now, I'm penciling them all into Canton as we speak. I need more Kool-Aid before I'm confident in the oline.
I know I am going to take a lot of heat for this  
UberAlias : 5/11/2014 7:29 am : link
But I do not completely agree.

I think fans still have shell shock from the Carolina game. That was an extreme utter disaster, but every game was not like that as fans want to believe.

I saw many, many times when Eli was given time to throw and either WRs did not get open, or he threw a bad pass. There were major issues across the board last year and they were not all on the oline.

Eli was sacked the 11th most in the league last year and tied with a few other guys like Colin Kaeopernick. Bad, but no more than many other notible QBs. Even more telling is pressures. I don't know what the ranking was for that but they showed a statistic at the draft which included the top 6 and in that list was Matt Ryan, Flacco, Russel Wilson and three others, but no Eli.

The line was very bad last year, but protection was far from the only problem. As for run blocking, I'm not sure in this offense it is as big an issue. The running game will be different and not as significant a factor in the offenses success.

The line is still an issue, but I am going to reserve my judgement before dismissing the offense completely just because they didn't overhaul the line. The can still improve without complete overhaul and there are other areas they had better get better at as well.
RE: I don't get the ol is fine crowd  
EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) : 5/11/2014 7:30 am : link
In comment 11671406 JoeCabbie said:
Quote:
I'm not an expert so i just give my opinion and move on. No reason to harp on it or act like I know more than the front office.

The oline last year was the worst I've ever seen. Worse than in the 70's and it wasn't just last year. In our SB year, the oline was awful the first part of the year, but put it together for the end and the playoffs. Since then a disaster. It's been years since we've seen quality oline play. Just because once upon a time the Giants put together a monster line out of cast offs doesn't mean it's easy to do. We've been trying to rebuild it like that and failing for years now.

The only ones I have more faith than question marks are Pugh, and Schwartz. Richburg has great potential and I love the pick even though i wanted him at 3. the truth is good oline go before they're projected or where their projected, they rarely drop. Moses was the only one I saw drop and I wasn't high on him, so in my mind it wasn't a drop.

Some here have more confidence in journeymen olinemen than our WR's who would have all looked better last year if our oline could give Eli more than a second and a half.

In the end i'm a Giants fan so I love the draft now, I'm penciling them all into Canton as we speak. I need more Kool-Aid before I'm confident in the oline.


I agree with you. the O-line will be fine crowd was saying the same thing before the last two seasons also. They also say things like... they need time to gel. I hope that this "gelling" means they actually build some real strength to keep themselves from getting pushed back right into Eli on every play.
The O-line free agents have likely improved  
Jimmy Googs : 5/11/2014 7:45 am : link
things versus last year but only degrees. It still requires consistent investment in young, high quality players from the Draft in order to really develop into a unit and stay within the CAP.

Richburg is a nice add, but no other way to say it, the Giants did the bare-minimum to address the O-line in this draft.

If Snee, Beatty and Walton don't give this team considerable (and quality) snaps this season, we could easily be looking at 2013.V2
...  
SanFranGiantsFan : 5/11/2014 7:47 am : link
There's no way the OL can be as bad as it was last season. There's just no way. The '13 Giants OL might have been the worst I've ever seen. It was football malpractice.

It'll be better this year. How much better? That remains to be seen.
We've got three things on the OL  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 5/11/2014 7:57 am : link
Guys who can play with some level of ability: Pugh, Schwartz.
Guys who we hope can play with some level of ability: Beatty, Richburg, Walton
Guys who are backups at best: Snee, Mosley, Brown
Guys who will be out of the league very soon: Jerry, Hermann, Brewer, Kropog, Goodin, etc.

Here's another issue. They talk about playing Schwartz at LG. He's not a LG. He's a RG. Play him at RG ( and don't tell me Snee is going to play RG. he is done as a starter). Play Richburg at LG IF Walton can play.

Finally, I think Beckham is going to be a very good player. But I would have taken Martin and Richburg. With those two we are on the way to having a strong OL. Everything starts with the OL! Islander 1 was right.
Uber: You probably saw the total number of pressures.  
Riggies : 5/11/2014 7:58 am : link
Not the percentage of dropbacks pressured on, because Eli was near the top in that category (I think fourth, IIRC).

PFF, based on their pressure data, had them 31st, only ahead of Arizona in pass protection.
RE: We've got three things on the OL  
Riggies : 5/11/2014 8:05 am : link
In comment 11671427 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:


Here's another issue. They talk about playing Schwartz at LG. He's not a LG. He's a RG. Play him at RG ( and don't tell me Snee is going to play RG. he is done as a starter). Play Richburg at LG IF Walton can play.


I absolutely agree that Schwartz should be playing his best position (RG), but it's not going to happen unless Snee can't drag himself onto the field (which is a possibility to be fair).

The minute Snee took a paycut instead of being cut, he was locked in as a starter on this team, at "his" position, no matter who has to be shuffled or how awful he's likely to be.
RE: Don't be such worriers  
Big Blue '56 : 5/11/2014 8:12 am : link
In comment 11671267 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Mara, Coughlin, and Reese are all quite aware of the beating Eli took. It's not like they've been in denial about the need to fix it. They brought in 3 potential new starters and new depth competition.

Team has been a playoff contender for most of a decade and a two time champion , and at the first sign of restructuring, you can't lose faith in the process and the IQ of the people who put it together.



This
eric  
SBlue46 : 5/11/2014 8:13 am : link
Besides te which wasn't priority
Imo...I thought taking C instead
Of OT in 2 was mistake..we
Had 2 or 3 good guys at ot
To pick. C in 3 would be
A good pick.Beatty sucks
When healthy and he wont be.
Biggest need...and 9 ufa pic
ks no O line guys..your wife
Was on the money. .
SB...  
M.S. : 5/11/2014 8:18 am : link
...well played, Sir.

You are describing a select few belligerent a-holes on this site.

BBI would be a lot better off without them.

It always comes down to their blabbering about having "faith"... but the bizzaro thing is that these self-same posters are also quite belligerent.

Translation: they are just plain angry... but they're faithfully angry.
we did get oline in fA  
SBlue46 : 5/11/2014 8:18 am : link
But ot were projects..
Swartz g and c were
Better...I have concern
With oline coaching..
With macs system lets
See how hd does...snee
Said everything is new.
I thought this was the year where they would really go OL  
micky : 5/11/2014 8:19 am : link
moreso than what happened.And, considering what took place last season. I know they addressed with plug in guys for now (Walton, Brown, etc)but I'm thinking down the line..I really would've liked to see Martin drafted as he was more versitle on line and could helped as they solidified in coming years.

I really hope health of line becomes a main issue this year again.
Keep the TE in mind too  
SwirlingEddie : 5/11/2014 8:21 am : link
If Grimble (or anyone else for that matter) can be a decent blocking TE, then our OL is improved through that too.
That is....  
micky : 5/11/2014 8:22 am : link
I really hope health of line DOESN'T becomes a main issue this year again.
my wife  
SBlue46 : 5/11/2014 8:37 am : link
Sees eli w boot . Hope he can run.
I say he isnt runner..she says if
Vick got beat up w good oline.. what
Will happen to eli with worse line
And bad leg..
DavidinBMNY...  
M.S. : 5/11/2014 8:49 am : link

...you make several valid points.
Reese has t earned anyone's trust when it comes  
LauderdaleMatty : 5/11/2014 8:54 am : link
To adding OL talent. He's bed. Then GM for 8 years and right now. Of one guy on the OL cN be assumed to be near the top at his position. That's top 5-7. Snee used to be a stud. Other than him No one else has ever even sniffed a pro bowl. Never mind show long term consistency.

Reese Zoe. A shit load of the the D and went bargain basement hunting again for the OL. Maybe the new a scheme hides the deficiencies that are pretty obvious but until play on the filed shows otherwise people assuming the OL will be Much better are being beyond gracious to Reese given his history.
my wife just thinks i am stupid to orry about the draft  
George from PA : 5/11/2014 8:55 am : link
.....most do not add up to much.

no OT beyond the first was starting....I will also add...I bet even then the best they could have hoped for was RT with Pugh moving over to left.....

they signed C.Brown and Beatty will be ready.....

we will have 3 new interior linemen, which will help Beatty and Pugh....just the fact that Diehl, the human turnstile, is no longer... will help them
RE: Posts like this annoy the hell out of me  
Great White Ghost : 5/11/2014 9:06 am : link
In comment 11671403 SB said:
Quote:


Quote:


So why is anyone's opinion valid at this point in relation to the people who do this sort of stuff for a living? Let it play out.



No shit we aren't NFL executives. This is a fan site, last time I checked. We share opinions. Apparently that's not allowed anymore because we don't actually work for an NFL team? During game days, are we no longer allowed to question play calls because we don't coach for a living? Should Eric shut down the forum all together?

Or better yet, if someone has an opinion you don't agree with, how about address it instead of blasting someone's opinion as invalid because they don't "do this sort of stuff for a living."
Now that's a rant to be proud of. My kind of rant, my kind of guy.
Yeah but its not about just drafting O-lineman that you can plug  
Jimmy Googs : 5/11/2014 9:10 am : link
in immediately.

There is clearly some space in-between drafting Blue-chippers and Projects that the Giants choose not to pursue very often.

Not sure if I heard this correctly, but I believe the Giants may have had one of the "most expensive O-lines" in the entire NFL last season.

I'm not thrilled with the potential of the OL at this point,  
yatqb : 5/11/2014 9:31 am : link
but am less pessimistic than some here.

For one thing I think Eli will be taking a lot more 3-5 step drops this year, and that will help with the pressures on him.

Second, the injuries we had last year led us to play guys out of position. Brewer should never have been allowed to play OG. He is if anything a RT (although I think he'd be a failure there too). But he sure doesn't have the mobility to play OG. This year we'll at least have starters and backups playing the positions they play best. Jerry and Mosley are OGs, Brown an OT, Richburg and Walton Centers, etc. Screw the versatility philosophy with guys who AREN'T versatile. It's one thing to have Pugh and Boothe (or Zach Martin) who can ACTUALLY play several positions competently. It's another to try to get away with playing someone like Brewer at a position he shouldn't be playing in the Arena League.

Last, we have to hope that guys like Jerry and Brown will have the motivation to rise to the occasion on their one year contracts. A considerable question mark, but that's all I got in that regard.
put me in the group that says the line isn't fixed  
jsboston : 5/11/2014 9:48 am : link
it's definitely not fixed long term.

we brought on 5 free agents, but only 1 i have any faith in.

i don't believe snee bounces back. he's done.

and beatty returning to form is conjecture. he's had 1 good year. he was terrible last year.

at some point we have to bring in guys we think will be together for 5-7 years. i think we have 2 of them, maybe 3. so we're still lacking a couple.

who should we have picked? i seriously would have picked a G in round 1 or traded up 1 spot for Lewan.

i dont' give the FO the benefit of the doubt on the OLine for one simple reason: the difference between expectations last year (superbowl clock in the locker room) and what they put on the field was a huge gap. delusional.
OK, I've been drinking the Kool-Aid  
JoeCabbie : 5/11/2014 9:58 am : link
and here's what I got...

Richburg learns the oline calls right away and turns into a rare weapon because of his pulling ability. He's a madman making blocks everywhere. It takes a few games, but by the second half it's clear he's a football player.

Schwartz and Pugh are what we think they are.

Another guard emerges from the rabble.

Beatty improves just because the guys next to him are better.

SB baby!!!!!!!!
But  
Doomster : 5/11/2014 10:21 am : link
We have five new..
2ndroundKO : 1:11 am : link : reply
o-linemen. 15 overall. We've addressed the position. Pray tell, who should the Giants have gotten?



Quantity does not equal quanlity....

It's obvious, the Giants are playing for now and not the future.....

As far as the OL goes, it looks like they are counting on Beatty at LT, Schwartz at LG(better than what we previously had, but nothing special), a merry go round of centers, unfortunately it's looking like they are hoping Snee can play, and Pugh....Brown and Jerry? Sounds like ice cream...tastes good but not good for you....not exactly addressing the positions of the line....looks more like plugging than sealing....looking like Davis may be the blocking TE.....

The other question is, how will this line assimilate into this new offense?

The offense is definitely helped by Beckham, if he is a fast learner and becomes the starter Nicks once was....With Brown gone, Wilson in question, Cox a disappointment, Williams could become a big part of this offense.....only thing is, having a RB in a WCO that can't catch? Question is, did they not throw to him because he couldn't catch, or it wasn't part of the play calling?

If Beckham has growing pains, this draft will not have an impact on this season.....there will be a lot of pressure on him to produce.....we have to start hitting on players who produce after the first round.....in the last 5 drafts, we only have LJ to show for it....

Having taken Beckham in Round 1, I think the Giants concluded  
Marty in Albany : 5/11/2014 10:37 am : link
that there was no Round 2 rookie who could start at LT if Beatty was not available. I think they decided to either use Pugh or Brown or obtain another veteran. That is why they didn't draft another OL. It was unlikely that a rookie LT could help the team after Round 1.
agree w both doomster and joecabbie  
jsboston : 5/11/2014 10:38 am : link
we're playing for this year. did not try to fix the line long term (other than the C we drafted, which i really like).

joecabbie points out what i think is the BEST case scenario.

the line could also be helped by the new offense.

i don't think our new R will be catching passes. i'm not a fan of personnel packages that hint at the plays that might be called but other than that I think he's a winner.
What's forgotten in all this O Line talk  
JohnF : 5/11/2014 11:13 am : link
is what the impact of having real running backs will be.

Last year, we lost Brown, then Wilson, and had to depend on a guy off the street (Hillis), who was not in football shape. Teams knew we had no running game, and took advantage by dialing up the pass rush.

Now, we have Rashad Jennings, we have the new guy, Williams. Even if Wilson does not come back, that gives us a legit threat at the RB position. Teams can't just go wild pass rushing, especially when McAdoo installs a legitimate screen package (something we've been missing for years).

I think our Line is better, with the draft and FA. I think it will be significantly better this year, with real threats at RB, a new system, and more 3 step drops.

We won't know until they play for real, but I wouldn't be down right now. I think we're on year one of a two year reload, ready to compete for the playoffs this year.
RE: But  
2ndroundKO : 5/11/2014 11:27 am : link
In comment 11671577 Doomster said:
Quote:
We have five new..
2ndroundKO : 1:11 am : link : reply
o-linemen. 15 overall. We've addressed the position. Pray tell, who should the Giants have gotten?



Quantity does not equal quanlity....

It's obvious, the Giants are playing for now and not the future.....

As far as the OL goes, it looks like they are counting on Beatty at LT, Schwartz at LG(better than what we previously had, but nothing special), a merry go round of centers, unfortunately it's looking like they are hoping Snee can play, and Pugh....Brown and Jerry? Sounds like ice cream...tastes good but not good for you....not exactly addressing the positions of the line....looks more like plugging than sealing....looking like Davis may be the blocking TE.....

The other question is, how will this line assimilate into this new offense?

The offense is definitely helped by Beckham, if he is a fast learner and becomes the starter Nicks once was....With Brown gone, Wilson in question, Cox a disappointment, Williams could become a big part of this offense.....only thing is, having a RB in a WCO that can't catch? Question is, did they not throw to him because he couldn't catch, or it wasn't part of the play calling?

If Beckham has growing pains, this draft will not have an impact on this season.....there will be a lot of pressure on him to produce.....we have to start hitting on players who produce after the first round.....in the last 5 drafts, we only have LJ to show for it....


Yeah, they're expecting Beatty to bounce back. Same with Eli. Same with JPP. Imagine that.

At RT we're set. Same with C where Richburg or Walton will man the middle. Schwartz is a solid G. And plenty of competition at the other G spot. Much ado about nothing.
So, Eric,  
Randy in CT : 5/11/2014 11:28 am : link
your wife is a Negative Nancy like you! :)
JohnF...  
M.S. : 5/11/2014 11:30 am : link
...you make an interesting point, but I'm not sure it quite hits the mark.

Our running backs were constantly getting nailed in the grill before they even got to the LOS.

It was like watching the lousy Giants of the 70s. There was no movement by our O-line, and with defensive linemen and LBs streaming in, our running backs took fearful shots before they ever got their motor in gear.

Combine that with lousy pass blocking and Eli throwing like a street FA (not to mention Nicks dogging it) and it all added up to a very ugly offense.

I've said it before... I'll say it again. Jerry Reese is either going to fix this offensive line, or he will need to find employment somewhere else.

We'll just have to wait and see if his FAs and new Center and a return to general health rights a listing O-line.

Giants have done some  
bc4life : 5/11/2014 11:35 am : link
significant work to shore up the OL. They brought in Schwartz, Walton, and Jerry (those who think Jerry cannot play are somewhat blinded by the Miami fiasco).

They also signed Brown who could serve as depth and possibly start in a pinch.

The only player who looked good last year was Pugh - you aren't going to address 5-8 Line spots in one year. They brought in Schwartz, Walton, Jerry, Brown and Westburg. That's five guys who can help us At least 4 who have started in the league.

The new O will also help us, quicker tempo getting rid of the ball quicker - look what that did for San Diego.
Bottom line  
bc4life : 5/11/2014 11:41 am : link
They have significantly improved the OLine - the LT position is still a concern.

Walton can also play guard - if you think that Pugh, Schwartz, Westburg, Walton or Jerry is not a big upgrade over what we fielded last year - I don't know what to tell you, except I'm fairly confident that you're wrong.
RE: Bottom line  
JoeCabbie : 5/11/2014 11:45 am : link
In comment 11671663 bc4life said:
Quote:
They have significantly improved the OLine - the LT position is still a concern.

Walton can also play guard - if you think that Pugh, Schwartz, Westburg, Walton or Jerry is not a big upgrade over what we fielded last year - I don't know what to tell you, except I'm fairly confident that you're wrong.


They can be big upgrades and we can still have a weak oline. The line was that bad last year. Depth is still a concern.
Where exactly...  
2ndroundKO : 5/11/2014 11:47 am : link
is depth a concern? Perhaps at Tackle but other than that I strongly disagree. And I'm also convinced we'll add on a veteran tackle before week one.
LT is a concern  
bc4life : 5/11/2014 11:51 am : link
Don't see how you say there is no depth at guard and now at center
"those who think Jerry cannot play are somewhat blinded..."  
Riggies : 5/11/2014 11:52 am : link
What a load of horse shit.

Jerry has played like crap since he broke into the NFL and done so entirely independent of his being an asshole.

I'd argue it's the people blinded when it comes to him (and Brown) are more the ones who are permanently in white knight/Pollyanna mode when it comes to almost every aspect of the team.
Pay attention to who left the building  
ghost718 : 5/11/2014 11:53 am : link
and what the Giants have done.

Mike Pope,Tight Ends coach,was let go and all we did was add Kellen Davis.Now Reese supposedly came out and said we need to develop some guys.

Gilbride was retired.He was quick to tell you the issues with offensive line.But we acted like Gilbride was the main problem when it came to fixing it.Not a whole lot was done,regardless of what the All Is Well crowd says.
RE: LT is a concern  
2ndroundKO : 5/11/2014 11:53 am : link
In comment 11671681 bc4life said:
Quote:
Don't see how you say there is no depth at guard and now at center

Exactly. The other positions are fine IMO. I'm much more concerned about Eli and our pass rush.
Correct me if I am wrong, but JD Walton has not played at guard  
SB : 5/11/2014 12:04 pm : link
...since high school, if he even did then. Why is it a given that he can step in and play guard now? Couple that with him not even playing in a game at all since September 2012.
I'm happy  
baadbill : 5/11/2014 12:04 pm : link
In comment 11671247 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Mook, they added three possible starters... Richburg starts right away at right guard...


I'm pretty sure that I read something from Giants front office (I think it was Reese) in which they said Richburg is a pure C and not a consideration for any other OL position...
Left Tackle is not a concern...  
M.S. : 5/11/2014 12:16 pm : link
...it's a HUGE F-ing concern!

Forget about the Will Beatty injury (which is bad enough)-- this guy came into camp last season a very wealthy man and he played like he was thinking about post retirement plans.

THAT is a huge F-ing red flag.

Now, I am pinning my hope on the fact that he did have some games that he play decently in... and I'm only asking for "decent" play from this guy...

...but holy moly, if the start of last season was just a harbinger of things to come, well -- then -- our left flank will be turned and burned.

We'll just have to wait and see. But keep your eyes ESPECIALLY on this guy.

I'm not saying there isn't depth.  
JoeCabbie : 5/11/2014 12:20 pm : link
I'm saying it's a concern. There are a lot of question marks and with a couple injuries and too many questions answered badly it could get ugly. It's a real possibility.

Richburg they made sure to get. It's felt like a reach. I don't think he'd have lasted to us in the third, they had to take him if they wanted him, and I think they really did. They described his skill set as matching their new system. They like that he can pull. They like that he can make the line calls. It may be that what our line really needs is a leader that gets everyone on the same page out on the field, and they way he's been talked about, he's that guy. Chemistry is a fickle thing. We may only need one player, but the right player.

It's kind of like on D where we suck without a mlb that gets everyone on the right page.
I absolutely feel like the O-line will be better this season.  
Jimmy Googs : 5/11/2014 12:36 pm : link
And I also think the Giants will a have a few "shit-shows" in the first half of the season until the Coaches figure out what 5 guys can provide the most consistent level of play in this new offense.

Lets hope for the best and pray that James Brewer doesn't get into the game...



RE: Left Tackle is not a concern...  
2ndroundKO : 5/11/2014 12:38 pm : link
In comment 11671711 M.S. said:
Quote:
...it's a HUGE F-ing concern!

Forget about the Will Beatty injury (which is bad enough)-- this guy came into camp last season a very wealthy man and he played like he was thinking about post retirement plans.

THAT is a huge F-ing red flag.

Now, I am pinning my hope on the fact that he did have some games that he play decently in... and I'm only asking for "decent" play from this guy...

...but holy moly, if the start of last season was just a harbinger of things to come, well -- then -- our left flank will be turned and burned.

We'll just have to wait and see. But keep your eyes ESPECIALLY on this guy.


It is a concern but who played well last year? Not like Beatty was the only one. He just happened to be the one who had signed a big contract.

Beatty was solid in 2011 until a freak eye injury then even better in 2012. There's a reason to be concerned but also reason for optimism. And we'll see how things play out during camp and the pre-season. Wouldn't surprise me if we added another vet tackle before week one.
playing like crap  
bc4life : 5/11/2014 6:12 pm : link
is an inaccurate description of Jerry's play. He has pass blocked fairly well and he has the bulk to be an effective run blocker.

If Coach Flaherty didn't think there was talent there, no way the Giants bring on a controversial player like Jerry. That's what coaches are for, make the most of a player's talent.
draft  
stoptheclock : 5/11/2014 6:19 pm : link
Look the G-Men cannot fix everything overnight. I was surprised by Eric's seeming negative feelings. But,I like character guys who can also play. Begging forgiveness and leaping across dimensions for a moment, the Red Sox won last year with great character, not great talent.

No one can call a draft. That is part of its allure. Sure the Giants would love to have a new-age tight-end 6'7" with 4.6 speed who can block and at least one tall receiver to serve as red zone targets. That guy was not available on their board when they picked. This time around they obviously placed emphasis on character and team concept. We needed a center because Walton is unsure.... Good pick. We needed a top-notch receiver...got him. I like their picks down the line on the basis of what they do on the field and contribute to team chemistry. We will likely get an O-lineman or two during cut-downs for depth if needed. We are OK. If we come up short, we will have a chance next year to fill in the blanks.

It's not inaccurate. It's the truth.  
Riggies : 5/11/2014 7:26 pm : link
Jerry has been a mostly terrible OL in his time in the NFL. He was, by PFF, tolerable in pass blocking for one season, but has been a ghastly run blocker by any account, regardless of how fat he is, since the day he put on a NFL jersey.

I know I shouldn't expect anything from a guy who thought Brandon Myers played well here and that Reese should have been championed for signing him, but even you should be able to detach your mouth from the FO's/coaching staff's balls enough to not try to nonsensically claim people only think he sucks because he's an asshole. He sucks because he's sucked; his being an asshole is just a bonus.
Bottom line is Reese doesn't over invest inthe OL  
LauderdaleMatty : 5/11/2014 8:08 pm : link
Like he does at WR, DL, and. DB.

Not to mention that if he added a top tier OT it would be admitting he screwed up on Beatty. He wouldn't be the first GM to not want to admit he's made a mistake. And he won't be the last.
Riggie  
bc4life : 5/12/2014 1:20 pm : link
Go fuck yourself. Big mouth punk behind the keyboard
RE: Riggie  
Nitro : 5/12/2014 2:18 pm : link
In comment 11673789 bc4life said:
Quote:
Go fuck yourself. Big mouth punk behind the keyboard


FIGHTTTTTTTTTTTT
This stuck out most in Eric's post:  
Exit 172 : 5/12/2014 2:23 pm : link
"She pours me a glass of wine."

What's that like?
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