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I live dorgan : 10:03 am : link : reply about 45 minutes from SU so I follow them every year even when they stink. I would guess I've seen Bromley play 10-15 times over the past two years. I thought he was the best player on the team by quite a bit. He does draw a lot of double teams and had a fair percentage of incidents where he got a wash or won the battle against the double. That's a very good thing. When you are doubled a high percentage of the time, it wears on you both physically and emotionally. A lot of DTs start to lower their effort because they know they can't win. I never saw him do that. That's another very good thing. He keeps on plugging. I can't compare his value to the available OL at the time because I was unfamiliar with quite a few of them, so I have little opinion of the pick other than I think he's a legitimate pro DT |
I don't know the guy from a hole in the wall - can't say I like or dislike the pick. But I do know that if there's anything to criticize, it's the Giants evaluation of the guy, not where they picked him. If they felt he had a 3rd round grade, then why try to play the 'wait and see' game to see if he's around in the 4th, because he's supposedly not ranked higher than a 6th? What makes people so sure that these draft rankings (which are so far off for the majority of players, basically anyone that goes outside of the first 20-30 picks), are reliable enough to use them to bash the Giants FO?
The guys who write these draft guides are not always right.
Where to pick a player doesn't come down to some consensus, it depends on the team's ability to grade talent. Assuming that someone will be available simply because they were projected to go elsewhere is a fool's errand.
This is what I sad before and is worth saying again. Do folks really think that reading draft pundits makes them actually knowledgeable about player evaluations?
I learn from the football posts of the old ball coach every time. It's his fascination with old balls I don't get.
bromley at syr.
snickers : 5/10/2014 9:46 am
I do not post often but would like to comment on Bromley. As a Syracuse fan and grad, some bias for sure but this was a good player taken by the Jints. Saw him often and always thought he gave us maximum effort and tenacity. Our 2 best defensive players were Bromley and Spruill and Spruill benefitted greatly from the presence of Bromley in front of him. B was routinely double teamed yet made plays to get to the ball carrier or knifed into the backfield. He plays somewhat high and for me disengages from blockers a bit less well than he should. However, I am no scout and how his skills at the college level translate to the NFL is open to question. I believe he can be valuable in engaging blockers and allow the linebackers to make plays much as he did at Syracuse. The early reaction to his pick reminds me of the reaction to the Pugh pick last year as well. Much criticism but I believe all of us would agree that he was a good selection. I believe I wrote then 2 or 3 times my opinion about Pugh to try and give my opinion on him and I hope that I am right about Bromley in much the same way.Patience is very important in this process. Again, I am only a fan and no expert, so my opinion is an educated guess but having seen him play and watching his improvement from year to year and the real progress he made last year makes me believe he has a high ceiling that he may reach given appropriate coaching. My 2cents.
Disagree. I watched those cut ups as well and he gets consistent penetration. He gets washed up in the run game some times, and he clearly needs to get stronger, but there's some good stuff to work with.
But I still think Reese reached for him in the third round. Fifth, maybe fourth, would have been fine, but there were still a lot of good football players on the board at #74, including DaQuan Jones of Penn State. I find it hard to believe that Bromley would not have been available in the fourth round.
Reese would get the benefit of the doubt if he had a better recent draft record, but he doesn't. He isn't Seattle. That doesn't mean that it's right to say he should be fired, but criticism of this pick as a reach is justified IMO until Bromley proves otherwise.
What this shows is that GMs can have vastly different opinions on players, and certainly have grades that are different than those assigned by fans or even professional draft gurus like Kiper and McShay.
Bromley is a Giant. I will root hard for him, as I'm sure everyone else will as well. He's a great kid.
Stu,
valid point and that's why the draft is such a crap shoot.
Percentage? Well, if you defeat a double team 15% of the time, you're doing well. If you accomplish a wash another 15-20% of the time to get that number up to 30% or higher, you're doing real well.
From memory, I'd guess he was in that range.
As far as competition, SU played in the ACC, so they weren't playing the Batavia School of the Blind every week. They faced some pretty good teams.
As far as the individuals he faced, answering that would take far more research and effort than I'm willing to expend. Football was a job for me for a long time and now I'm a fat, happy fan who isn't going to break down film for a hobby.
As far as his draft slot, I don't have an opinion on that because I'm not a college football buff. I like the college game but I watch it for entertainment purposes only, and don't have time to watch more than a game or two a week.
Watching a game or two a week is a shitty way to evaluate and rank players wouldn't give you much data to work with.
That's why I don't get too excited about fan's perspectives of players. They don't have much data to work with and you've always got to question if they know what they're even looking for.
I don't mean that to sound condescending, but I suppose it will be interpreted that way.
This is precisely what is wrong with fans and the draft process. Quarles was passed over not once, but seven times by the professional coaches and scouts that make up the 32 best football teams in the world and yet you think you know so much more than them to claim that you can be happy because they signed him, and then have the stones to tell us that it makes up for the guy that was actually selected?
Get over yourself.
But I still think Reese reached for him in the third round. Fifth, maybe fourth, would have been fine, but there were still a lot of good football players on the board at #74, including DaQuan Jones of Penn State. I find it hard to believe that Bromley would not have been available in the fourth round.
Reese would get the benefit of the doubt if he had a better recent draft record, but he doesn't. He isn't Seattle. That doesn't mean that it's right to say he should be fired, but criticism of this pick as a reach is justified IMO until Bromley proves otherwise.
What this shows is that GMs can have vastly different opinions on players, and certainly have grades that are different than those assigned by fans or even professional draft gurus like Kiper and McShay.
Bromley is a Giant. I will root hard for him, as I'm sure everyone else will as well. He's a great kid.
Criticism of Reese's recent draft record and subsequently questioning whether the players from this class will turn out to be good pros...completely fair.
However the reach and "value" talk in general among fans will always be speculation until you somehow get everyother team's draft board. We all have a warped sense of what these guys are worth going into the draft because networks, draft website wannabe scouts/hacks, and a host of other amateurs tell us what they're worth. We spend hours gobbling that shit up and the last thing we want to admit is that it's mostly a complete waste of time.
Exactly.
You know where a guy is "supposed" to be drafted?
Exactly where he is taken.
It's about time one of these "reaches" pays off.....I don't expect much from a rookie DT this year....it's next year I do....
- Each year, teams think they found a few guys that are off the radar and can get them later in the draft for various reasons; Injury, small schools, overshadowed etc.. This year, one of those guys was Bromley. Said he there was a buzz about him in recent weeks and thought he would get drafted earlier that the so called draft experts projected. He's a "sleeper" and thought many teams wanted him. He said that he is the type of guy that no one talks about as so many teams are interested and they hope he slips. He said no one will work harder than him and Giants got a really good player. Said he was a sure 3rd round pick in his mind and also used the Chris Canty comparison as player type. Thought the Steelers or Bears would grab him in the 3rd which means that he didn't think it was a reach at all.
In 3rd when there were
Beter graded players
Available in all positions
He really put his ass on the
Line.It changed our whole
Draft. He Also took a few
Reaches later which is
Better to do then. This
Pick has to pan out for
Reese to redeem himself.
I think he's going to steadily improve with each season. Especially under our conditioning program. He definitely can put on some more muscle.I see him at 315-320 pounds.
I don't know about you guys but he reminded of Fred Robbins when we had him in 2004. I truly believe Bromley is going to be a solid pro for us.
He is not fat and could put
On 10-20lbs muscle and will.
NIX the guy I wanted
Is over weight and knee
Injury. On tape he looked
Better than Joseph and was
Pretty fast chassing qb and
Rb..Doesn't quit on plays and
Jumps up and down after plays.
Most DT I see are tired by halftime.
After some weights I see a monster
There are well over 200 players selected in these drafts. It is impossible to correctly determine when and where each one should go.
He is not fat and could put
On 10-20lbs muscle and will.
NIX the guy I wanted
Is over weight and knee
Injury. On tape he looked
Better than Joseph and was
Pretty fast chassing qb and
Rb..Doesn't quit on plays and
Jumps up and down after plays.
Most DT I see are tired by halftime.
After some weights I see a monster
Also.. I think pro scouting is definitely in bossman's future.
Also a lot bigger ..dont see
comparison.
It's about time one of these "reaches" pays off.....I don't expect much from a rookie DT this year....it's next year I do....
Yeah, I saw Tarkington run around, Homer Jones catch catch a football by the backend as it was going in front of him, Pisarcik/Csonka infamous handoff. And many isolated "great" plays in both the good and bad connotation. AND so many " Come from ahead Defeats"
But I find it difficult to "evaluate" a given circumstance. For example, Bromely. I watched his highlights. I saw him getting stood up most of the time and I thought "This is a great pick?" and I worried about it. Then today Dorgon, Bless his pot belly, made the statement , Which I will misquote no doubt but it was to the effect that if Bromely could beat the double team FIFTEEN PERCENT OF THE TIME he was doing well and if he could get a wash another FIFTEEN PERCENT and raise the two to THIRTY PERCENT HE WAS DOING GREAT or some such words.
Well here I am thinking the beating the double team should be in the vicinity of 40-50 % . Bromely would have never stood a chance of being in my good graces.
Now where else should I to colored "Dumb" because of my ignorance and misconceptions.
I have watched TWO football games live in my life. Both were at Orchard park in Buffalo. I disremember who the Bills were playing the first time. The game is totally gone from my memory but the second game the Bills played the jets and by then I was a "Veteran" I saw plays develop on the side away from the ball. I could see how the "outfield" aligned and changed with each play and within each play.
It beat television seven ways to Sunday as the saying goes.....and my daughter and my son-in-law literally raked me over the coals.....but with respect because There was always "Wide Right". Of course I would have had an elaborate funeral but to be buried in "Buffalo?" Yeecch.
I stray from my original premise which to thank both the above for their straightforward analysis. To Dorgon for occasionally pointing out the basics in evaluating a play, player or a scheme. and to "Doc" BB56 for some clear thinking. I wish I could do that without getting my BP up.
BB56 I used to detail for Alcon in the 50' and 60's Would have loved to talk Giants .. I would have learned a lot I'm sure.
Dorgon, I'm a manhattanite from the upper east side in the late 30's and early 40'....BAsketball, baseball, stickball or handball. Football?....Waazat?
Again Gentlemen ..thank you
Thus why the draft "experts" saw him as a late pick. I believe he has a higher ceiling then some would expect.
There are well over 200 players selected in these drafts. It is impossible to correctly determine when and where each one should go.
AGREED! I don't get the meaning of the term "reach" - "reach" with respect to what? Your favorite player from your favorite college team? Mel Kiper's opinion?
The draft is NOT a relative exercise. Jerry said his objective was to get 7 good football players. He did. 'Nuff said.
But, nevertheless, I thought we're supposed to just withhold judgement for a few years and trust the professions?
It's about time one of these "reaches" pays off.....I don't expect much from a rookie DT this year....it's next year I do....
You couldn't be more wrong.
Wait...I take that back. YOU actually COULD be more wrong.
I think overall the consensus here is that the process of evaluating players might be broken somewhere if your only averaging one player being on the team (usually 1st rounder) from each draft. *We have five players left from 2004 to 2010 on this roster. So they probably felt they needed to make a change. Thus all team captains this year.
I don't see him as a "fat" player like Joey says...I'm not sure where he is getting that. I'd just like to see him be more stout at the point-of-attack.
It's hard to tell...two tapes...they showed a lot of snaps, but not all. And he did flash on some plays with plays in the backfield. At the pro level, that's the norm for a really good DT, but when you are talking about a high draft pick in the college game, I think you want to see more against a team like Minnesota.
That all said, I'm encouraged by Ross' post above.
And I know it's old-fashioned stupid on my part...but if Clemson is killing you 35-14 in the first half and inside the red zone again...don't celebrate a big play like you just won the game.
Jenkins and Patterson won't be on the team for much longer, so plenty of snaps for this guy
Youtube...didnt see any of
Our Dt chase qbs and rbs
In backfield. JOSEPH was not
That good. Our alternative
Was for Reese to sign Williams
Or Rodgers.
They had two players that have seen this kid play and practiced against him.
Our first draft choice last year had inside information about this kid and should have had an input. Also the Giants drafted a QuarterBack that practiced against him.
If scouting staff did NOT use that information - SHAME ON THEM.
If they did we probably have a good player
Not sure what you mean here. Sintim and Barden were Extremely productive in college--I think Barden might have even led the nation in touchdowns. And Sintim had more than 10 sacks and more than 12 tackle for loss if I recall correctly.
Check your facts he was invited to the Combine. Ran well @ 306#(5.06). Decent strength for a long armed guy(26 reps). Explosion testing was average(33.5VJ/8'10BJ) and agility testing(7.92TC) wasn't impressive.
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You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy
:)
Perhaps you can direct them to the cheap motel you use for your hookups with Boyhart and other media members
Once I told him the Doc I was a pitcher and not a catcher, he lost interest.
The issue with Sintim is that he was a 3-4 pass-rushing LB and the Giants wanted him to play 4-3 SAM and cover TEs.
At their ages, they're thinking more about constipation than consummation.