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Some thoughts on our draft from a former Eagles Employee

Ross : 5/11/2014 10:41 am
Every year I love reading BBI around this time as so many people have different opinions about each player...most of whom have never really seen these guys play (including some draft "experts"). Who knows who's right or who's wrong, but I certainly can't profess to know more than people who spend their time evaluating these players for living. Thousands of hours are put into evaluating hundreds of players..and it's still a crap shoot most of the time.

Anyway...a high school friend of mines father is a former employee of the Eagles. My buddy is a Giants fan (his dad grew up a Giants fan and later in life worked for Eagles) and each year I try and talk to him about the Giants draft and get some perspective from his dad..who is still connected to the Eagles in some capacity. I normally speak to him a few weeks after the draft, but this year it was last night. Here's some thoughts from his old man:

- Each year, teams think they found a few guys that are off the radar and can get them later in the draft for various reasons; Injury, small schools, overshadowed etc.. This year, one of those guys was Bromley. Said he there was a buzz about him in recent weeks and thought he would get drafted earlier that the so called draft experts projected. He's a "sleeper" and thought many teams wanted him. He said that he is the type of guy that no one talks about as so many teams are interested and they hope he slips. He said no one will work harder than him and Giants got a really good player. Said he was a sure 3rd round pick in his mind and also used the Chris Canty comparison as player type. Thought the Steelers or Bears would grab him in the 3rd which means that he didn't think it was a reach at all.

He loves Beckham and never thought they Eagles (or Giants) would get him as they were sure the niners would trade up to get him. Shocked they didn't. Thinks he's the 2nd best (and complete) WR drafted in the past few years and loves him.

Berhe is the type of player that fits the new NFL style. Five years ago, he would not have been drafted as early, but he's the type of player that teams want in todays NFL. Plays the run and pass well and also thought several teams liked him.

Williams is another guy that he liked and thought he fell because all RB's fell. Also said he's one of the hardest workers at the position and runs harder than any RB in the draft. Thought Giants might take him in the 3rd but not surprised he fell to the 4th.

Just to clarify..these are his opinions and his opinions alone; not the opinions of the Eagles organization.

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Some of the most unpopular draft picks in Bbi history  
djm : 5/11/2014 11:53 am : link
Turned out to be solid picks. Guys like Luke pettigout, Pugh, Ross, even JPP and nicks and of course Simms who was drafted before BBI but his pick was booed off the stage-- all turned out to be good to great picks.

Some of the most popular picks like Wheatley and Derek brown turned out to be duds. Of course some of the bashed picks like Cedric jones, dayne, Thomas Lewis, and Austin did in fact end up sucking...

Cool info. Thanks, Ross!  
Moondwg : 5/11/2014 12:14 pm : link
.
This draft, like lat year's  
Bill in UT : 5/11/2014 12:24 pm : link
will come down largely to how the #2 and 3 picks work out. The jury is still out on both Moore and Hankins. It seems like everyone assumes that Richburg is a stud, and hopefully he is, but on the surface he's probably the best of what I think was considered a weak center class. And Bromley right now is a big question mark for many. Looking forward to seeing them on the field
Good stuff. Thanks for posting.  
arcarsenal : 5/11/2014 12:28 pm : link
Maybe the "Jerry Reach" crowd will gain a little perspective here and relax but I'm not holding my breath.
Nice  
Bavaro_the_Mafioso : 5/11/2014 12:44 pm : link
much appreciated
Thanks  
chris r : 5/11/2014 12:58 pm : link
.
you can high five  
mdc1 : 5/11/2014 1:05 pm : link
on the draft as much as you like; however, sadly this team has not developed anything they have selected over the years. That is the problem......most of the folks we draft are like sand through your fingers. Seems like free agents start and play on this team....

that is the problem the owners have..
Yeah, Pugh didn't help the team at all last year.  
arcarsenal : 5/11/2014 1:06 pm : link
Neither did Hankins.
RE: It's  
chris r : 5/11/2014 1:08 pm : link
In comment 11671597 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
becoming more and more apparent that the only people who didn't like the Giants draft are some of the fans.


Based on one anonymous former Eagles employee's opinion?
No different  
yankfan : 5/11/2014 1:09 pm : link
from game day threads, really. Everyone knows more than the guys who actually do this for a living.
Richburg may be the best of a weak center class...  
manh george : 5/11/2014 1:16 pm : link
But then the question is, by how much is he the best. Clearly, there were a number of draft analysts who locked into him at the Senior Bowl and concluded that he was the whole package, and that there wasn't a close second. If that is the case, I really don't care that centers #2-12 all sucked.

We shall see, but there isn't any fan here who saw his workouts at the Senior Bowl, so for a guy who apparently came on late, their opinions don't mean much. Same with Bromleyt, who clearly was a late bloomer.

How good are they? I have no idea, but neither does anyone else.
My visceral snap-shot judgment  
RetroJint : 5/11/2014 1:20 pm : link
is this was a helluva draft. So glad to have that validated by a professional, who worked for an organization that has been the best in the NFC East over the last 15 years in consistently targeting talent and roster formation. The big trophy has eluded them but they have played in a helluva lot of NFC Championship games. Thank you.
RE: Bromley is definitely a sleeper.  
BMac : 5/11/2014 1:23 pm : link
In comment 11671667 Canton said:
Quote:
The lights came on his senior year. He plays with an absolute mean streak. A high character guy that just wants it. He showed a little bit more explosiveness this year. He has a motor, and he chased guys down from behind for such a bigger guy.

I think he's going to steadily improve with each season. Especially under our conditioning program. He definitely can put on some more muscle.I see him at 315-320 pounds.

I donvt know about you guys but he reminded of Fred Robbins when we had him in 2004. I truly believe Bromley is going to be a solid pro for us.


From your lips to the football gods' ears. I'd love another Freddie Robbins, one of my faves from days gone by. Now, realistically, I don't expect that level of play, but if Bromley comes close, it'll be a great pick and an exceptionally solid player.
RE: RE: It's  
BMac : 5/11/2014 1:26 pm : link
In comment 11671775 chris r said:
Quote:
In comment 11671597 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


becoming more and more apparent that the only people who didn't like the Giants draft are some of the fans.



Based on one anonymous former Eagles employee's opinion?


You really have no sense of proportion, do you?
Thanks for sharing  
steve in ky : 5/11/2014 1:26 pm : link
Nice to get some inside insight on the pick
Ok so the Giants arent that stupid  
Blue Blood : 5/11/2014 1:34 pm : link
and the colossal cosmic meltdown that happened was completely unnecessary..

I for one were one of the BBIers  
Earl the goat : 5/11/2014 1:37 pm : link
Who complained about the draft. I thought TE was a position of need and should've been addressed. After hearing Marc Ross say the there weren't any TEs that they valued was when I started my complaining. I personally feel that the secondary didn't need to be addressed with 2 picks especially when it was addressed so heavily in FA

I do like the players drafted and am excited about some of the UFDAs but I really wanted a TE with one of the picks 3-5
Thanks for posting!!  
mfsd : 5/11/2014 1:38 pm : link
Very interesting comments
There was no TE  
Phil in LA : 5/11/2014 1:39 pm : link
good enough to address it with in any of our windows.
It's  
AcidTest : 5/11/2014 1:40 pm : link
nice information, but it's really just speculation on the part of this person. He doesn't know whether the Steelers, Bears, or anyone else would have taken Bromley in round three. What's more valuable is his analysis, since he used to be in a position to make these types of decisions.

But a lot of others thought he was a reach. Whether this includes NFL GMs is not something we will ever know. And the fact that Reese knows more about these players doesn't mean that we shouldn't analyze and criticize his selections. That is especially true given his frankly marginal draft record the last few years, at least outside the first round. Otherwise, what's the point of this board? Not everyone who criticizes Reese is Rich in Houston calling for him to be fired.

Reese would get more benefit of the doubt on picks like this if he had a better draft record. But he doesn't. He isn't Seattle. He isn't playing with House money like their GM and scouts. Seattle just drafted Justin Britt, OT from Missouri at the end of the second, which is arguably a much bigger reach that Bromley in the third. Some Seattle fans are probably questioning that pick, but then remember that their GM drafted Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas, Russell Wilson, etc.

Let's see where we are in two to three years. Bromley is a rookie. No judgments should be made this season, and perhaps we'll be pleasantly surprised by his play. If that happens, then the label of "reach" will begin to fade, and Reese will get more benefit of the doubt from fans on his future picks. But that is something he and the scouts have to earn.
It's all conjecture. Read this article from 538 and  
RDJR : 5/11/2014 1:43 pm : link
you'll realize how silly this debate is.

Here's a quote and then a link. "All of this means that the NFL draft’s mechanism for sorting players is largely an efficient system, in the sense that none of its individual actors have the ability to “beat the market” in the long run. Some do see short-term deviations from the mean, but those prove unsustainable over larger samples. The implication is that much of what each team gets from its draft picks — the very entryway to the league for almost every NFL player — is determined by pure chance."


Can't beat the draft - ( New Window )
Thanks Ross,  
Simms11 : 5/11/2014 1:45 pm : link
it's always good to hear good things about our draftees from other teams and unsolicited non-the-less. Kind of validates what teh GIants did in my eyes, as well.

Bromley will surprise folks I think. He's much like last years 3rd round pick (D Moore) in that he needs to bulk up a little and become more polished. He'll be learning from a couple great players too - C Jenkins and Patterson.
RE: I for one were one of the BBIers  
Blue Blood : 5/11/2014 1:49 pm : link
In comment 11671829 Earl the goat said:
Quote:
Who complained about the draft. I thought TE was a position of need and should've been addressed. After hearing Marc Ross say the there weren't any TEs that they valued was when I started my complaining. I personally feel that the secondary didn't need to be addressed with 2 picks especially when it was addressed so heavily in FA

I do like the players drafted and am excited about some of the UFDAs but I really wanted a TE with one of the picks 3-5



Thats what most fans think. They think that we adressed the seocndary HEAVILY.. when in reality we didnt.. we replaced three players we lost with three more players.. the net gain of players was ZERO.. the difference is that hope we gained BETTER players..

The Safety issue became a problem with the Will Hill suspension.. If the suspension is upheld.. at the least he is getting six games.. if not a year.. and the Giants might wind up releasing him..
Blue blood  
Earl the goat : 5/11/2014 1:57 pm : link
Prince. DRC. Thurmond. Mcbride. Hoesley at DB

Demps. Rolle. Brown. Taylor. Hill? Sounds like plenty of depth in secondary

Robinson. Donnell. Davis. Haven't proved anything at TE as threats

I just feel taking a chance on a TE instead of Berhe or Jackson or even Kennard would've been a better option. Otherwise I was happy with the draft
RE: It's  
Canton : 5/11/2014 2:02 pm : link
In comment 11671836 AcidTest said:
Quote:
Reese would get more benefit of the doubt on picks like this if he had a better draft record. But he doesn't.



Putting the onus on Reese is foolhardy. Ross should get most of the blame. For Reese, if any blame should be placed on him, it's for hanging onto Ross to long.

When Reese was Director of Player Personnel. Reese coordinated the Giants’ college scouting, was in charge of the team’s draft preparation and ran the draft room as the players were selected. He also did a lot if his own scouting. That's when we were more successful in the War Room. It set us up for 2008.

I wish their was a way Reese could take on more of that responsibility. That's when he was at his best. In 20 years, I'll remember him more for that, then what he had provided us at GM.


RE: Yeah, Pugh didn't help the team at all last year.  
mdc1 : 5/11/2014 2:18 pm : link
In comment 11671772 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Neither did Hankins.


Beyond first rounders, but I expected you to understand that. Guess you did not. There you go.
RE: It's  
Ross : 5/11/2014 2:21 pm : link
In comment 11671836 AcidTest said:
Quote:
nice information, but it's really just speculation on the part of this person. He doesn't know whether the Steelers, Bears, or anyone else would have taken Bromley in round three. What's more valuable is his analysis, since he used to be in a position to make these types of decisions.


Hey Acid...I didn't mean to mislead, but he was not in a position to make these types of decisions, he just worked for the Eagles and was well informed.
RE: RE: It's  
AcidTest : 5/11/2014 2:35 pm : link
In comment 11671899 Ross said:
Quote:
In comment 11671836 AcidTest said:


Quote:


nice information, but it's really just speculation on the part of this person. He doesn't know whether the Steelers, Bears, or anyone else would have taken Bromley in round three. What's more valuable is his analysis, since he used to be in a position to make these types of decisions.



Hey Acid...I didn't mean to mislead, but he was not in a position to make these types of decisions, he just worked for the Eagles and was well informed.


OK. Thanks. As I said, nuggets like this are always appreciated.
Ross and Reese...Frick and Frack..Mutt and Jeff  
ghost718 : 5/11/2014 3:05 pm : link
If Reese is a much better talent evaluator than Ross,he probably doesn't agree much with what he's hearing.That means he's taking guidance from someone he knows doesn't know what the hell they are talking about.

That would make him an even bigger fool
Great post  
Patrick : 5/11/2014 3:07 pm : link
Thanks for sharing.
RE: RE: It's  
Jon in NYC : 5/11/2014 3:15 pm : link
In comment 11671775 chris r said:
Quote:
In comment 11671597 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


becoming more and more apparent that the only people who didn't like the Giants draft are some of the fans.



Based on one anonymous former Eagles employee's opinion?


Radar, you aren't dumb. Stop acting like you are.
RE: Blue blood  
Blue Blood : 5/11/2014 3:55 pm : link
In comment 11671863 Earl the goat said:
Quote:
Prince. DRC. Thurmond. Mcbride. Hoesley at DB

Demps. Rolle. Brown. Taylor. Hill? Sounds like plenty of depth in secondary

Robinson. Donnell. Davis. Haven't proved anything at TE as threats

I just feel taking a chance on a TE instead of Berhe or Jackson or even Kennard would've been a better option. Otherwise I was happy with the draft


and you have heard this now many times.. They lke to create competition..

and how many times did you think we had great depth on the secondary.. and at the end of the season you are trying to get guys off the street...

Had Boss proven anything?? Had Ballard proven anything.. Had Bennett proven anything before signing with the Giants.. you dont take a chance at a position if you have higher rated players there.. The Giants have done that.. and it hasnt worked out.. You can get a TE.. we have gotten them in FA.. We have gotten them as UDFA's... and we have gotten them as late round draft picks.. you can get a TE...

The reality is that the TE needs to block. McAdoo was a TE coach for six years.. he knows how to coach up TE's... really not worried about TE..

Also you need players for special teams.. and if one of these guys pushes Charles James or Hosley off the roster.. SO WHAT ??? you just got better..
Ok blue blood  
Earl the goat : 5/11/2014 4:39 pm : link
Where's the competition at TE then
We may not have added a TE....  
Wonderphil11 : 5/11/2014 5:05 pm : link
but we very much DID add an absolutely ridiculous talent at WR. I really think this kid will be special. Thanks for posting this.
Earl they have TE's on the roster..  
Blue Blood : 5/11/2014 5:06 pm : link
you might not like what they have.. but they have players at the position.. the Giants were aware of their need at TE.. but what should they do...

Ebron gone before their pick in round 1

Seferian Jenkins gone before their pick on round 2,, should they have passed on the best center in the draft who can also play guard knowing how badly the interior of the OL played last year.... and draft Amaro or maybe Troy Niklas who still hasnt run a 40.. has limited speed and average hands who is getting over a double hernia surgery??

Id much rather fix the OL in round 2..

CJF was gone at the beginning or round 3...

Should they have passed on one of the most productive college backs in all of football in round 4 to take Arthur Lynch who is mostly a blocker ??

Now I was hoping for Lynch in round 5 but it didnt break that way...

so unless you were going to miss out on a OL in round two.. you really didnt have much chance to get one of the better rated TE's in the draft..

They did bring a TE in as a UDFA.. and they might still address the position later or with June 1 cuts..

the TE for the Giants simply isnt a feature role.. Its a necessary one.. but it isnt a feature one.. even people crying Green Bay features a TE we need a TE..

Does Green Bay feature a TE?? no.. not really..

Finley best year ever was 2011

2011
16 games
55 receptions
767 yards
8 TD's
13.9 avg per catch

And thats with Aaron Rodgers throwing the ball at record numbers..

The Giants are probably looking at 35-40 catches.. 500-600 yards and 5TD's...

They should be able to find someone to do that.. they have done it consistently in all honesty.. Boss did it.. Then Ballard did it.. Then Bennett did it..

so basically they had a 5th rounder.. an undrafted FA and a Dallas underachiever in a contract year produce results..

No doubt the Giants need a TE.. They either need one of the guys on their roster to step up.. or they need to start looking elsewhere.. The draft just didnt work in their favor..




Interesting idea that if you aren't hearing "buzz"  
SwirlingEddie : 5/11/2014 5:07 pm : link
about a player it may be because teams are hoping to let a player slide to them under the radar.
I agree with Blue Blood  
Clearwater Joe : 5/11/2014 5:11 pm : link
I think they may have wanted to go TE in the 3rd but both Niklas and the kid from Iowa was gone, who I think they may have been targeting
This talk about the draft not falling our way, from Reese on down  
Bill in UT : 5/11/2014 5:13 pm : link
is just silly. If you're determined to get a TE, you MAKE the draft work out for you to get one. The fact is that it just wasn't a big priority for them, at least not as big a priority as the guys they took.
Sounds like they went after team leaders  
Torn Tendon : 5/11/2014 5:15 pm : link
because they felt they would have a good work ethic.
Dont buy it. Sorry  
Modus Operandi : 5/11/2014 5:41 pm : link
Bromley is a fat, slow and worthless human being. Moreso, anyone who doesnt realize this is also a fat, slow, worthless human being.

I know this because Joey in VA knows this. And he works out.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion but...  
TD : 5/11/2014 5:51 pm : link
what most of us (myself included - and I have historically liked/given the benefit to most of Reese's picks) see on video is a big guy with not much quickness or explosiveness, light hands, who is easily misdirected/moved.

I do see some positives, FWIW, so I can see why we might have targeted him on day 3 perhaps or as an UDFA: he has size, a high motor and is fairly good at keeping his feet. Those qualities can be had in DTs normally available in the later rounds/FA. What he lacks, in my view, is what sets the grunts apart from the greats.
Ross, great, great stuff.  
Montreal Man : 5/11/2014 6:08 pm : link
Makes me feel good about the upcoming season. Thanks much.
Great stuff, Ross!  
Mike in Philly : 5/11/2014 7:24 pm : link
Thanks for posting!
But but I could not select Bromley at 3.10 in the first-pick.com Mock  
Mike in NY : 5/11/2014 7:39 pm : link
If the Top 100 was that much of a consensus then everybody would be 100/100 every year. This year the best only predicted 81 out of the Top 100 correctly and perrenial top guy Bob McGinn only correctly guessed 77. I know people who have zero experience scouting in the NFL scoring higher than that. The fact is there are guys every year that everybody undervalues, but those employed by the NFL really like and vice versa
Bromley is Fat  
crick78 : 5/11/2014 8:37 pm : link
and will be out of the league in 3 years!

Regards,
Football Guy n VA
RE: RE: Yeah, Pugh didn't help the team at all last year.  
arcarsenal : 5/11/2014 9:20 pm : link
In comment 11671894 mdc1 said:
Quote:
In comment 11671772 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Neither did Hankins.



Beyond first rounders, but I expected you to understand that. Guess you did not. There you go.


Wasn't aware that Hankins was a 1st rd pick.
RE: This talk about the draft not falling our way, from Reese on down  
Blue Blood : 5/11/2014 9:57 pm : link
In comment 11672152 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
is just silly. If you're determined to get a TE, you MAKE the draft work out for you to get one. The fact is that it just wasn't a big priority for them, at least not as big a priority as the guys they took.


Ok sounds good.. now exactly how do you MAKE the draft work for you..

That kind of logic is how the team wound up with players like Cedric Jones and Thomas Lewis.. the player we wanted wasnt there so we MADE a pick at a position of need.. even though the player didnt warrant the pick..

RE: RE: RE: Yeah, Pugh didn't help the team at all last year.  
Modus Operandi : 5/11/2014 10:01 pm : link
In comment 11672620 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 11671894 mdc1 said:


Quote:


In comment 11671772 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Neither did Hankins.



Beyond first rounders, but I expected you to understand that. Guess you did not. There you go.



Wasn't aware that Hankins was a 1st rd pick.


Kiss the ring, you fuck,
RE: RE: RE: RE: Yeah, Pugh didn't help the team at all last year.  
MookGiants : 5/11/2014 10:24 pm : link
In comment 11672729 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
In comment 11672620 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 11671894 mdc1 said:


Quote:


In comment 11671772 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Neither did Hankins.



Beyond first rounders, but I expected you to understand that. Guess you did not. There you go.



Wasn't aware that Hankins was a 1st rd pick.



Kiss the ring, you fuck,


Modus, wrong poster
I think that a lot of fans are approaching this draft in the wrong way  
Reese's Pieces : 5/11/2014 10:31 pm : link
Unlike the usual draft, this draft is not going to be evaluated by whether Beckham can make spectacular catches, or whether Williams is the guy who can finally make those fourth and ones, or whether Bromley will make Joseph a forgotten man by the season midpoint.

This draft is about Eli Manning and will be judged on the degree to which it assisted Manning in his attempt to regain his pre-2013 form. Everyone knows that Manning had an awful bottom third season and that the team can do no better next season than struggle life and death to make the playoffs if Eli does not make it back to the top third of quarterbacks.

No one is exactly sure of why Manning fell apart last season, but it does not seem to be due to a hidden injury. The premise of his breaking down under the constant pressure of opposing defenses pummeling him because his line could not protect him is plausible and is the only one over which the team has control this offseason.

The Giants made quite a few moves to shore up the line during free-agency. They signed Geoff Schwartz, a Chiefs UFA at guard. Most agree that this was a very good signing, and he will step in at left guard as an immediate upgrade. The Chiefs were sorry to lose him.

There were more questions about the signing of center JD Walton from the Broncos. A 3rd round draft choice of Denver in 2010, he started all 32 regular season games for the Broncos in 2010 and 2011. But bad luck caught up with him in 2012. After starting the first four games he had a serious ankle injury that required surgery. He missed the rest of 2012, and then needed additional surgery in June, 2013 causing him to miss that entire season on PUP. The Broncos had had enough and waived him. The Redskins claimed him but did not play him in the last two games of the season. So the Giants pretty well know what they are getting: solid player who has had serious ankle problems that have kept him from playing in a game since the 4th game of 2012.

To bolster offensive tackle the Giants signed another player with question marks: Charles Brown. Brown was drafted in the 2nd round by the Saints in 2010. He mostly sat out his rookie season but became the starter for the Saints in 2011. He then had the misfortune of being placed on IR after five games starting in 2011 and three games in 2012. These were lost years when he should have been learning how to play. He started the first 14 games of 2013 at left tackle, but felt the wrath of coach Sean Payton in a game against the Rams:

'I saw enough,' Saints Coach Sean Payton said. 'I saw enough, period. It was enough penalties, pressures, sacks. It was enough. At some point you can’t just keep watching it. Feelings get hurt, it is tough.'

For fans of Pro Football Focus, the news is not good. He received the lowest rating of any player on the Saints' offense for 2013 and was ranked 66th of 76 offensive tackles. His pass blocking was his worst fault.

So that's how the team addressed the offensive line in free agency. A solid starter and two question marks, with Brown being the bigger question mark. More to come was expected in the draft.

As it turned out the Giants only drafted one offensive lineman, but at least Weston Richburg appears to be a good one. He was a four year starter at Colorado State. Gil Brandt, the respected former player personnel VP of the Cowboys from 1960-1988, gave him a quick evaluation on Sirius. Undersized, very quick, and should be the Giants' center for the next 10 or 11 years.

But what of offensive tackle? As of now, the Giants seem to be rolling the dice with Beatty. With all the new people on the line, the cohesion that is so important to line play will not be there, which makes it even more important to put the best people out there.

And Snee and his ankle and other injuries and his age make him, well, less than even money to make it through the season with skills close to what they were in his prime.

So I rate this draft lower than most because it failed to sufficiently provide for the protection of Eli, and if the team has another season like 2013 and misses the playoffs for the third season in a row the Reese/Coughlin era will be over.

One last thought. Jerry Reese may yet pull a rabbit out of his drawers and pick up a Kawika Mitchell or Michael Boley.
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