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Has Reese spun his masterpiece?

grizz299 : 5/26/2014 8:28 am
You hear, "you can't judge a draft for three years" so often that it adopts the mantra of truth. Except that, it's not.
There are a million variables that affect how a pick (or a team for that matter) turns out after the fact. Draft a Chad Jones and he gets in a car crash and it's a bad pick. Ignore a Brady while 180 picks (or thereabouts) slide by and you gamble on him and he's brilliant and so is the guy who picked him?
I'd say that in real time the pick of Jones was superb and the pick of Brady (after ingnoring him for so many lesser players) was folly.
I think the truth is harder, and that's judging things within the context of the information available at the time. If a GM or organization puts their team in a position to win, if they field a team with the potential to go all the way, then the jobs done.
And by that standard, and irrespective of how it turns out, I think Reese had facshioned a masterpiece out of clay. I look at this team and I see great potential, I actually see a team that's potentially better than our superbowl teams. I could break that down positon by positon, and of course it's dependent on players like JJP and Beatty performing up to their capablilities, but that's like the old Green Bay team would win if Forest Greg and Willy Davis hold up.
I see an offensive line that's potentially very good. I believe this staff knows talent and wouldn't have spent the money on Beatty if he wasn't worth it and that last year was abberant. Pough develops, and the interior he five or six potential players, competition and a winnowing process will make the starters strong.
At every position I see the potential to be as good as our good teams except for the secondary. Even Parcell's defenses had weak secondaries and we've won with Ross and Wilson playing key roles. This secondary Could be the lichpin that makes this a superb team able to compete with anyone.
And the key word is "could". Give us a solid "could" and that's all we can ask for. The excitement is in seeing how that "could" plays out against all the variables and uncertainities the season brings.
I believe the team spent the money on Beatty because they  
Andy in Halifax : 5/26/2014 8:35 am : link
had absolutely no choice. They had nothing on the roster to replace him with and FA offered no solutions. They were stuck and made the only move they could make.

So, in that sense, I heartily disagree with your assessment of the OL. OLT is a major area of concern, Beatty (when healthy) was only mediocre at best and now he's coming off a serious injury that will result in hm missing the entire offseason. His backup was publicly criticized by his former coach for poor performance.
Good for you  
Bill in UT : 5/26/2014 8:36 am : link
It's nice to wake up otimistic
Beatty wss good in '12  
aquidneck : 5/26/2014 8:37 am : link
bad in '13.

Could go either way this year as could our season.
masterpiece? we'll settle for the house being painted  
gtt350 : 5/26/2014 8:37 am : link
.
I'm as excited as I've ever been during an off season ... indeed  
baadbill : 5/26/2014 8:49 am : link
I'm not sure how long its been since there've been so many changes in an off season.

I'm excited about seeing the new offensive system... really excited about WR and RB

The defense is going to be a different story ... stronger secondary but weaker pass rush ... overall success will depend upon how stout they are against the run

But one thing is for sure. This is a VERY different team than the one that ended 2013 - and clearly for the better. The only question is how much better.
We've fortified the OL.  
Big Blue '56 : 5/26/2014 8:55 am : link
It's stronger. Younger. We could withstand an "average" Beatty if necessary, imv
There is certainly a solid core of talent here  
BillT : 5/26/2014 8:59 am : link
You look for that one special player in each unit. DRC/Rolle, Beason, JPP, Pugh/Schwartz, ODB/Cruz, Eli and they are in place. And there are a good number of other solid players to go with them. We need to wait and see about LT and TE so there is that. This offseason was better than we could have expected. I believe they are a competitive team for the NFCE at least. That's not bad.
maybe i am in the minority  
Essex : 5/26/2014 9:02 am : link
but I think we can win the division. this is not obviously a Super Bow team, but I think the Eagles have not done much to improve themselves and, if anything, hurt themselves by cutting Jackson. From our end, our secondary is very good, we made some, albeit not all, repairs to our offensive line. We still are far from perfect at TE, DL, and probably WR, but I think we have enough pieces to have a competitive year.
The shiny new toy has been put in place.. under our Christmas tree  
Canton : 5/26/2014 9:02 am : link
Now we get to find out if it's all hype or that it's actually worth playing with....
Clearly a few pieces that were added as starters and backups  
Jimmy Googs : 5/26/2014 9:37 am : link
will help, particularly on the Offensive Line.

But masterpiece??
We won Two (2) Superbowls with David Diehl at LT  
Big_Blue_Wrecking_Crew : 5/26/2014 10:05 am : link
Think about that for a second. David Diehl was versatile and was the ultimate team player but there was no question he was a below average pass protector at LT (look at the miracle game winning drive in the 2007 Super Bowl as a prime example).

Eli certainly isn't fast but has great pocket awareness and seems to be able to detect and evade pressure off the corners well as long as he can step up in the pocket. That makes the 3 interior lineman key and may be a big reason why he was so horrible last year. We addressed the interior bigtime. Now we cant put chopped liver out at LT, but Beatty only needs to be close to his 2012 form with all the other improvements along the line for Eli to likely be able to operate comfortably in the pocket.

We'll see if Reese made the right decision regarding his health. Thats the key equation in this IMO.
..  
Named Later : 5/26/2014 10:26 am : link
Reese certainly was busy this off-season. After the Boss says something's "broken".......you damn well better get busy.

JR looks to have Drafted help at WR, OL, and RB. All three positions needed an upgrade after last season.

In Free Agency, he appears to have signed those of his own players that needed to be kept (I would have liked to find a way to keep Tuck). He's picked up some players who may help along the OL and in the Secondary. The Return Game seems to have been improved.

Perhaps NFL Defenses as a whole is moving away from focusing on the Pass Rush and into the realm of superior Defensive Back Play.

That remains to be seen.

I don't understand the supposition that  
NoGainDayne : 5/26/2014 10:26 am : link
the Giants will put a good Oline on the field. They have let the problem persist for a few seasons now, I don't think it's outrageous to suggest that they in fact cannot properly address the talent level they require at that position especially.

There have been similar issues with the secondary and linebackers over the years.

I'm optimistic for the season, especially if we get good versions of Beatty and JPP and something from Richburg / Walton and a linebacker not named Beason. Not worried about Eli doing his part.

That all being said, even the superbowl teams weren't dominant in the regular season. Reese has never "spun a masterpiece" season and I don't think this will be his first.
i think if Plaxico stays home that Friday Night  
Essex : 5/26/2014 10:32 am : link
Reese spun a masterpiece in 2008. I know our DL was getting fatigued, but I still think if Plaxico did not shoot himself we win it all.
Agree with Andy regarding Andy  
Geeman : 5/26/2014 10:33 am : link
Beatty had leverage and had to overpay for an average at best LT. That said I appreciate your optimism on this date so early in May, however there are lots of question marks. TE is a huge question mark. So is the health of Beatty and the LT position. Then there is the DE position. How long will it take before Eli unlearns his old system and everyone clicks in the new system?
Everyone assumes that BMac will be a great OC, right now we have reason for optimism, but it's still a question mark cause he has no track record yet as a game day OC.
Most of the league right now feel that there better and will win there division. That's part of what makes the league great. Only time will tell.
RE: We won Two (2) Superbowls with David Diehl at LT  
Essex : 5/26/2014 10:40 am : link
In comment 11696145 Big_Blue_Wrecking_Crew said:
Quote:
Think about that for a second. David Diehl was versatile and was the ultimate team player but there was no question he was a below average pass protector at LT (look at the miracle game winning drive in the 2007 Super Bowl as a prime example).

Eli certainly isn't fast but has great pocket awareness and seems to be able to detect and evade pressure off the corners well as long as he can step up in the pocket. That makes the 3 interior lineman key and may be a big reason why he was so horrible last year. We addressed the interior bigtime. Now we cant put chopped liver out at LT, but Beatty only needs to be close to his 2012 form with all the other improvements along the line for Eli to likely be able to operate comfortably in the pocket.

We'll see if Reese made the right decision regarding his health. Thats the key equation in this IMO.


david Diehl made the pro bowl when only the players and coaches voted
When we won the Superbowl with Diehl  
Andy in Halifax : 5/26/2014 10:40 am : link
we were above average in all other spots and in 2007 Diehl was in his prime and could hold his own. In both games, we scored enough late to win but were held in it by very strong defensive performances.

The 2014 OL has Snee, coming off two surgeries, an unproven C (no matter who wins that battle), Schwartz (who's realy only had one very good year) and Pugh to go along with the gigantic ? at OLT.

The OL is nothing more than a mixed bag of good and bad and we should expect inconsistent performance unless you get lucky and Snee & Richburg play at a high level and Schwartz continue to trend upward. An inconsistent OL leads to an inconsistent offense, don't be surprised when it happens.

Based on what he has done over the last few seasons,  
Doomster : 5/26/2014 10:42 am : link
"masterpiece" is not the term I would use....just about every move he has made, has to click for this team to make the playoffs this year.....I don't think this team makes the playoffs....
We are going to have to wait and see on this  
UberAlias : 5/26/2014 10:55 am : link
Reese had a lot of work to do after years of weak drafting in the middle and late rounds and talent leaving via FA. Some key elements from '011 had gone stale. I'm sure he felt a bit like I did this morning when I realized it was time to clean out the refrigerator --not a light cleaning, but a take everything out, spray and scrub from top to bottom, throw three quarters+ of it away kind of cleaning.

Reese did what he had to/could do, but unlike my refrigerator where the results are immediate and apparent, in his case, we are going to have to wait and see.
Beatty  
Giants : 5/26/2014 11:00 am : link
has had one good season that is it,one. He is now coming off his second break to same leg. As well as there was reports he suffered some knee damage besides the break. There are some areas on this team it just seems easy to say. They added youth as well as talent. AS for the OL at guard they have added some talent. I believe if one of younger guards proves they can start I would start the younger guard over Snee. No matter what this looks like it will be Snee's last season. If have to go will Snee early on until the younger guard is ready then so be it. As for Tackle I only see one true starting Tackle on this team, Pugh. The rest look like they could be good backups. Then there are still questions about the DL,LB and TE. Every team is going to have areas of questions. Once again health is going to play into how the Giants do. This team could not take a run on injuries at any one of these positions : OL,DL and LB. There just is not enough talent there. So they need to stay particularly health at those positions.
Beatty is no  
ChicagoMarty : 5/26/2014 11:13 am : link
Forest Gregg even healthy and motivated

This team is badly in need of an upgrade at OT in order to protect Eli and make all the other investments in the run game payoff

This team really needs an upgrade at TE for the same reasons
Don't get your hopes up with Beatty...  
Damon : 5/26/2014 11:28 am : link
Charles Brown will be one of the starting Ts opposite Pugh.
If Charles Brown is  
ChicagoMarty : 5/26/2014 11:35 am : link
Starting at OT than get ready to check out our second and third string qb's
There is no "if"  
area junc : 5/26/2014 12:19 pm : link
about it: charles brown is currently the starting LT and we will not rush beatty back from injury. I agree w/poster Giants that there was likely unreported knee damage as well. almost impossible there wouldn't be just looking at the injury and using common sense
RE: Beatty  
2ndroundKO : 5/26/2014 12:53 pm : link
In comment 11696203 Giants said:
Quote:
has had one good season that is it,one. He is now coming off his second break to same leg. As well as there was reports he suffered some knee damage besides the break. There are some areas on this team it just seems easy to say. They added youth as well as talent. AS for the OL at guard they have added some talent. I believe if one of younger guards proves they can start I would start the younger guard over Snee. No matter what this looks like it will be Snee's last season. If have to go will Snee early on until the younger guard is ready then so be it. As for Tackle I only see one true starting Tackle on this team, Pugh. The rest look like they could be good backups. Then there are still questions about the DL,LB and TE. Every team is going to have areas of questions. Once again health is going to play into how the Giants do. This team could not take a run on injuries at any one of these positions : OL,DL and LB. There just is not enough talent there. So they need to stay particularly health at those positions.


Beatty was also solid in 2010 before that freak eye injury.
grizz. The engineering skill that went into building a rocket  
Marty in Albany : 5/26/2014 2:03 pm : link
is usually ignored unless said rocket achieves orbit.
One weak OT can be helped  
PEEJ : 5/26/2014 2:19 pm : link
with a TE or RB. The problem last season was the interior which turned every play into a fire drill
I think the OL will be fine  
djm : 5/26/2014 2:26 pm : link
it's the DTs that worry me.

There's so much competition along the OL and enough veteran talent there to keep things afloat. Beatty is a big key but even if he shits the bed I think the OL can manage a decent season's worth of play.

If the DTs behind Hank and Jenkins don't materialize into viable players the defense will struggle. The entire defense is in place but the DTs need to hold things together. I like the LBs on this team but they will be exposed if the opposing team's guards are punching their lights out every play.

It's all about the DT rotation. Biggest question mark heading into this coming season.
I'm worried about the backup plan for Beatty  
oipolloi : 5/26/2014 2:34 pm : link
This man sustained a major injury. In addition, to the question of whether he has the talent, we have to add the question of whether he will physically be able to perform.

Given that, I don't understand why they signed/drafted so many interior OL and ignored the tackle spot. A guy named Charlie Brown? Really? That's the backup plan?
Admire your "putting yourself out there"  
jLefty : 5/26/2014 2:35 pm : link
Definitely we're better.In almost all the positions. What will make the key difference is Eli. He's not the mobility model that has come into the league recently. Good arm, accurate, with the ability to move around and open things up if not scramble for the first downs.Hopefully Beckham will really help.Just wish we had a big target TE. Grimble?
Beattys best year he was mediocre  
LauderdaleMatty : 5/26/2014 2:36 pm : link
He can't handle top end DE's without a lot of help. Reese gave him a contract the makes him a starter but McAdoo will have to scheme around him as he's just not a good T no matter how much some here want to pretend.
Area junction  
ChicagoMarty : 5/26/2014 2:38 pm : link
Than I guess we will find out about our back up qbs because Brown really stinks
Matty  
djm : 5/26/2014 3:45 pm : link
In 2012 Beatty did just fine against just about every top end pass rusher he faced. He struggled at times but was far from the liability you make him out to be. And even the best LTs will struggled at times. Beatty showed promise in 2011-2012 or else Reese wouldn't sign the guy to a legit contract. I know that's impossible for you to comprehend. Reese is an absolute fool in your world but in the real world he's one of the more accomplished scout/GMs in the league.
djm  
Giants : 5/26/2014 5:48 pm : link
Have you actually checked Reese's drafting record. He is not one of the TOP GM. As a matter of fact his first draft was his best draft. Since then its been a huge question mark. Of all the GM with as much time in at the GM position. Reese leads the NFL with players drafted who are no-longer in the league.He has never been able to draft one above average LB. Look at 2009 draft. They say it takes about five years to judge a draft. How many Giants are still around from that draft, two. We all as Giants fans are hoping he got this draft right but his track record has not been good.
I'd like to stick up a little for David Diehl.  
Reese's Pieces : 5/26/2014 5:52 pm : link
In his first seven seasons he played in all 16 games, and did it again in 2011. He only missed 14 games in his whole career. He played wherever he was told to play.

He was starting left tackle on two winning Super Bowl teams. In 2011 he was moved back to left tackle from guard in the middle of the season due to injury. He was up against some really good defenses, like the 49ers that year. He didn't play like an All-Pro, but he played well, didn't embarrass himself or the team, and got the job done. No one had to make excuses for him.

Diehl was only voted to the pro-Bowl once, but he was the mold for a Parcells' lunch pail guy. He should be respected.

I don't know if he was ever in the military, else, what the hell, I'd throw that in there too.
djm  
Giants : 5/26/2014 5:54 pm : link
just in case you missed it. It was all over the media after last season. The owner of the Giants said publicly for all to hear. In the past there have been too many reaches in the draft. This speaks volumes of how the owner feels about the Giants drafts under Reese
Reese did about as well as could be done  
JonC : 5/26/2014 5:55 pm : link
given the limited resources available. I'd agree we're still lacking in talent at OT, and now we're a bit light at DE. A significant chance we're lighter at CB and S after this season as well. But, I said after the 2012 season that getting this team back to a contender level would take at least two offseasons. Looks like it will take three, imo.
I think Reese  
Giants : 5/26/2014 5:59 pm : link
did a good job this off season.However it was his bad contracts that he signed off on and his bad drafting that got the Giants into this mess. Hoping he got it right this time
re Reese's drafts  
grizz299 : 5/26/2014 6:14 pm : link
He's been drafting late, he's had a qb who ties up cap room, he's always been in a 'win now" situation and he's been handicapped by the unanticipated labor ccotract that, in effect, has given teams like Seattle and San Fran huge advantages.
We are simply not going to see old fashioned dynasties. Two superbowls in a decade is probably the best anyone can do in these times and with these restraints.
Giants  
aquidneck : 5/26/2014 6:20 pm : link
Give me a link that shows Reese leads the league in drafted players no longer in the NFL.

I don't believe that's a real stat.
Neck  
Giants : 5/26/2014 9:16 pm : link
I believe it was in one of Bleacher reports. It was put in percentage. He had highest percentage of players no longer in the NFL. There actually has been then one of those reports pointing out how bad the drafts have been. Still hoping he got this one right
Sorry should have read  
Giants : 5/26/2014 9:19 pm : link
There actually has been more then one
Agree 100% on Diehl - why do people judge him on his last year?  
PatersonPlank : 5/26/2014 9:26 pm : link
The guy was an all-pro, not chopped liver. He tailed off and played a year too long, as do most players, but when we won the 2 Super Bowls he was better than Beatty with one arm tied behind his back.
RE: Agree 100% on Diehl - why do people judge him on his last year?  
Big_Blue_Wrecking_Crew : 5/26/2014 9:51 pm : link
In comment 11696857 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
The guy was an all-pro, not chopped liver. He tailed off and played a year too long, as do most players, but when we won the 2 Super Bowls he was better than Beatty with one arm tied behind his back.


He was a pretty darn good run blocker at LT and gave you every ounce he had. But he was definitely sub par in pass pro, a generally very good OL around him helped cover that up.
If you legitimately think Diehl was better -- forget significantly  
Riggies : 5/26/2014 11:33 pm : link
so -- than Beatty was before he got hurt in 2011, I honestly wonder if you even watched the games or, if you do, if you're actually related to DD somehow.

People "hate" on (read: they don't, actually) him mostly because of how others continue to tout things like how he started on 2 SB winners!!!, when, in reality, he actively tried to make Adalius Thomas the MVP of SB42 and he was a season-long mess that his QB had to overcome, whether he was at LG or LT, in 2011/the run to SB 46.
The Reese haters, having finally fully digested the crow...  
WillieYoung : 5/27/2014 7:14 am : link
they had to eat in 2011, are out if full force again, even inventing statistics that aren't cable of being measured (how many GMs have been in the position with they current team since 2007 so they could be compared to Reese? - - very few). We just had our first and only sub .500 season under Reese and at that we were 7-9 with a quarterback who put up one of the singularly worst seasons for a 10 year vet in NFL history and an offensive line reduced to shambles by injury. Reese went into the offseason with a plan, executed it well (IMHO) and has restocked the roster while leaving us in cap heaven for 2015. he's given TC an enormous job of moulding a lot of new parts together under the CBA restrictions, but who thinks Tom isn't up to the task?
we have not made the playoffs  
mdc1 : 5/27/2014 8:09 am : link
in several years. The results are not there. Lets see if he gets it right this time. Time for flukes at specialty positions are over, back to basics.
Beatty is better than what most people give him credit for.  
Johnny5 : 5/27/2014 10:31 am : link
At least a healthy Beatty, with some solidarity next to him at G and C.

He's a middle of the road OT when healthy that we can win with if the rest of the line is (at least)decent, and we have better blocking from the TE spot. I just don't know how recovered he is/will be from that broken leg.
on what planet is the 2008  
djm : 5/27/2014 3:38 pm : link
draft questionable? or 2010? Phillips, Thomas and Mario were good NFL football players that got hurt. JPP helped us win a title for fucks sake. Joseph is a good player. Prince is a good player.

Just stop. He's had some misses lately but the guy could retire tomorrow and his career will be looked at as nothing short of excellent. You're clueless if you think Reese isn't considered a solid GM around the league.
Reese is a used car salesman  
ghost718 : 5/27/2014 3:41 pm : link
Not a painter
RE: on what planet is the 2008  
Big_Blue_Wrecking_Crew : 5/27/2014 4:26 pm : link
In comment 11697912 djm said:
Quote:
draft questionable? or 2010? Phillips, Thomas and Mario were good NFL football players that got hurt. JPP helped us win a title for fucks sake. Joseph is a good player. Prince is a good player.

Just stop. He's had some misses lately but the guy could retire tomorrow and his career will be looked at as nothing short of excellent. You're clueless if you think Reese isn't considered a solid GM around the league.


+1. All GMs have misses and big ones at that. Reese's overall hit percentage is probably better than most.
the draft is such a hit or miss equation  
djm : 5/28/2014 11:51 am : link
so much luck is involved but the really good franchises will show a better batting average than most--with that said every team is vulnerable in this era. Look at the Ravens...5 straight postseasons before struggles finally hit them last year. Pitt...same story. The Giants have hit a little slump after years of sustained success.

I wouldn't sleep on those teams I just mentioned and that includes the Giants. Look at things with a wide lens and not just at this past season. The Giants have been winning more than losing since 2000. They are due to bounce back at some point
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