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Orr: Giants feel Will Hill can win his appeal.

Mike in Long Beach : 5/27/2014 2:26 pm
In a Q-and-A piece where Orr pulled questions fans asked on Twitter, he provided the following info:

Quote:

Do the Giants feel there is any chance Will Hill wins his appeal? Will Giants stick with him even if does win appeal?

They do, which is why he hasn't been released yet. That being said, the team is not happy about the constant stream if issues (even though Jerry Reese knew what he was getting into). East Rutherford might not be the best place for Will, who had a tough upbringing just a few miles away from the Giants facility. That being said, Hill knows he's on thin ice, and admitted as much in an interview last year.

Link - ( New Window )
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I'd like to know what happened between now and a few months back...  
Klaatu : 5/27/2014 3:20 pm : link
When the Hill story first broke, and the consensus among the beatwriters was that Hill was as good as gone?
RE: pjcas18  
pjcas18 : 5/27/2014 3:22 pm : link
In comment 11697814 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
he was with the Redskins too.


Is that true? I can't find any evidence they ever signed Will Hill.

It's not in his stats pages, wikipedia, and only article I found about it refutes it.

I am sure your information is better than mine, LOL since my "research" means google searching.
I hope he wins it  
ANGPASS : 5/27/2014 3:23 pm : link
Hill being on the field is a major strength to the D. he is like a LB and Safety.
RE: BeerFridge  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/27/2014 3:25 pm : link
In comment 11697859 Sneakers O'toole said:
Quote:
I don't believe any details on the nature of his violation have been made public.


They won't be, at least not officially. It's protected information by the CBA. The league won't disclose it. They only categorize it as performance-enhancing substance or other substance.
I have to say that losing time for adderall and weed is pretty strange  
BeerFridge : 5/27/2014 3:26 pm : link
considering what the league lets the players do with the pharmaceuticals available to team physicians.
Ten Ton  
Sneakers O'toole : 5/27/2014 3:27 pm : link
Yes, I know. I'm just saying, nothing has come out about it.
Don't Release Him  
Samiam : 5/27/2014 3:28 pm : link
I would not release him even if he loses the appeal. As mentioned above, he makes very little money and is one of the best, if not the best, safety on the team. When you factor in his cap value, he's one of the best players in the league. But, that aside, the country is moving fairly quickly to legalization, or just decriminalization, of marijuana use. It would be a shame to release him this season and find out next season that the league will stop testing for recreational use and focus exclusively on performance enhancing or dangerous drugs. It's easy for people who have never lived in the shoes of a player with Hill's background to criticize and I'm not defending his lack of judgement but truthfully, does it make a real difference in the real world whether he smokes a joint or has a few drinks to deal with he stress in his life. I hope he wins his appeal but even if he doesn't, I would not want to see him released.
I agree with Sam  
Paulie Walnuts : 5/27/2014 3:30 pm : link
iam
I maybe mistaken but he would be the 1st player  
Mason : 5/27/2014 3:32 pm : link
To win an appeal in stage two. Winning an appeal in stage one is rare but happens.
What's gonna happen if he wins his appeal  
ghost718 : 5/27/2014 3:33 pm : link
Ok Will,you were on thin ice,now your on...thinner ice!


Yeah,yeah,In Reese We Blaze
if he gets suspended for a full year and the Giants don't cut bait  
Blue Baller : 5/27/2014 3:35 pm : link
In 2015 will he remain in the last year of his UDFA contract or will he be a RFA?

Anyone know what happened to contracts of players suspended for a full year?
there are two drug policies  
Sneakers O'toole : 5/27/2014 3:40 pm : link
PED and another for recreational street drugs like weed. He has one suspension for each under his belt right now. We dont' know which one he is supposedly in violation of currently yet.
pjcas  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/27/2014 3:43 pm : link
there were conflicting reports as to whether Will Hill was ever signed as UFA by the Skins. He may have been a tryout player...
http://www.alligatorarmy.com/2011/7/25/2293953/washington-redskins-sign-will-hill - ( New Window )
RE: there are two drug policies  
Mason : 5/27/2014 3:46 pm : link
In comment 11697915 Sneakers O'toole said:
Quote:
PED and another for recreational street drugs like weed. He has one suspension for each under his belt right now. We dont' know which one he is supposedly in violation of currently yet.

His arrest in December where weed was allegedly found in his car would be a stage two violation.
Mason  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/27/2014 3:48 pm : link
he wasn't arrested in December for weed...the police report said there was a smell of it in the car.
Eric  
Samiam : 5/27/2014 3:52 pm : link
I hadn't read that. Is that confirmed that he was a passenger in a car with a pot smell? Where's the failed drug test especially if he's denying that he used it.
Best defensive player  
mattnyg05 : 5/27/2014 3:53 pm : link
on the field for this team last year, and that includes Rolle and Beason. He's too good and too cheap right now to release IMO, even if he doesn't win the appeal.

Of course, I know absolutely nothing about what he has told front office members, team officials or teammates. There is so much that goes on behind closed doors that we have no idea about. All I know is what happens between the lines, that I can watch, the guy is a phenomenal talent.
Samiam  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/27/2014 3:54 pm : link
I'm not saying this infraction has to do with the car issue, but here is the story on the car...
Police: Giants safety Hill was behind $9K in child support; odor of marijuana in car - ( New Window )
Thanks Eric  
Samiam : 5/27/2014 3:59 pm : link
Hadn't seen that. How the hell does that warrant a conversation about a possible season long suspension (or even less than that)? It would be total bureaucratic bullshit if he loses any time especially given that players who have committed serious crimes dont get punished like that.
Sam  
Blue Baller : 5/27/2014 4:01 pm : link
no one has said (other than pure speculation here)that that incident is the cause of the suspension

Will Hill  
Mr. Nickels : 5/27/2014 4:06 pm : link
was never with the Redskins
there was  
Sneakers O'toole : 5/27/2014 4:06 pm : link
no arrest made for weed, and no weed found on him. The officer stated that there was the smell of it in the car. I think it's possible that this incident triggered a test from the league, and that the test is the basis for the suspension. That is just me guessing.
"an odor of marijuana was detected" is a standard-issue cop ploy  
Greg from LI : 5/27/2014 4:07 pm : link
And it's often just a bullshit justification to ransack someone's vehicle.
Greg  
Sneakers O'toole : 5/27/2014 4:10 pm : link
That is very true.
RE: Mike  
Mike in Long Beach : 5/27/2014 4:56 pm : link
In comment 11697860 Blue Baller said:
Quote:
I don't think the punishment has been definitively stated.
It is annoying


I just don't get this, but OK.

How many times has he been suspended specifically for substance abuse, and is the pending suspension for substance abuse. Answering these two questions, seems to me, would answer how long Hill is slated to be suspended for.

I don't get how this distinction hasn't been priority #1 for Giants' beat writers. It's the biggest story on the defense at the moment.
I hope this guy NEVER plays another down for us......  
Dry Lightning : 5/27/2014 6:10 pm : link
but hey, maximize value. Keep him as long as possible and then exile him to some team that is far from us for a late round pick. How many times is this idiot going to let us down? My hope is that this is all a pose to get us that pick, and they want him gone.
Eric, I know the arrest wasn't for weed  
Mason : 5/27/2014 6:16 pm : link
But if weed was in the police report it would be a violation of the behavior cause of his treatment. He is basically on probation and the incident would have occured within his 24 month evaluation period. There is some debate whether he is in stage two or actually stage three like Gordon due to the fact he received 4 games suspension last season. Adderall was his claim not the NFL. What is incredible how quickly he advanced in stages. He had to be triggering a lot of positive tests.

sorry meant 2012 Adderall claim  
Mason : 5/27/2014 6:18 pm : link
Not last season admisdion to weed.
Adderall was his claim  
Sneakers O'toole : 5/27/2014 7:03 pm : link
but we know for a fact that that suspension was under the PED rules.
If the issue is that Will Hill smoked pot, I think it's time the NFL  
GeofromNJ : 5/27/2014 7:27 pm : link
removed this "drug" from its forbidden list. If the NFL is concerned that kids will be tempted when they learn that their football heroes have a joint now and again, don't report it. NFL players have been known to run with prostitutes and get falling down drunk, behaviors that shouldn't be publicized for the sake of the kids, but neither of which is cause for an NFL suspension, and both of which could be more risky that smoking weed.
Maybe I am off target here but our defense is much less  
SGMen : 5/27/2014 7:28 pm : link
without Will Hill. I say this because where do you go with the ball when we have the usual four DB's, or five DB's, or six DB sets of today's NFL? All of our starters, our nickel and our dime safety (Brown) are pretty damn good.

If JPP bounces back and Hankins stuffs the run and pass it just opens things up for middle for blitzes and stuff. Our defense has a chance to be special if it stays healthy and plays to its abilities.

Last, I have this funny feeling - a guess really - that DE Ayers is going to have a "break out" season and win the starting job and show the NFL why he was once a #1 pick. If that happens we have a superb DL, DB and LB set. When is the last time we had all those in place?
RE: Winning an appeal in the NFL doesn't seem  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 5/27/2014 7:42 pm : link
In comment 11697808 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
to happen very often...does it?

Hope Mr. Hill bucks whatever those odds are.


Richard Sherman won his appeal. So,, it does happen.
Based on what I had heard  
UberAlias : 5/27/2014 8:09 pm : link
I'm not surprised.
RE: Based on what I had heard  
Blue Blood : 5/27/2014 8:14 pm : link
In comment 11698337 UberAlias said:
Quote:
I'm not surprised.


not surprised at what ??
RE: I hope this guy NEVER plays another down for us......  
BMac : 5/27/2014 8:15 pm : link
In comment 11698184 Dry Lightning said:
Quote:
but hey, maximize value. Keep him as long as possible and then exile him to some team that is far from us for a late round pick. How many times is this idiot going to let us down? My hope is that this is all a pose to get us that pick, and they want him gone.


Another member of the "every silver lining has its cloud" crowd. I hope you never, ever serve on a jury; you simply aren't capable of rational, critical thought.
NFL is looking  
BigBlueCane : 5/27/2014 8:22 pm : link
at allowing pot in exchange for HGH testing.
RE: RE: Winning an appeal in the NFL doesn't seem  
Mason : 5/27/2014 8:23 pm : link
In comment 11698277 jeffusedtobeonwebtv said:
Quote:
In comment 11697808 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


to happen very often...does it?

Hope Mr. Hill bucks whatever those odds are.



Richard Sherman won his appeal. So,, it does happen.


Sherman's suspension was for PEDs not recreational drugs. You are more likely to win PEDs. Also Sherman was never in the NFL treatment program. Very different circumstances.
even if he wins  
bc4life : 5/27/2014 11:07 pm : link
how confident can you be he won't screw up again - they have a lot of players at the safety position. if he wins his appeal, do you keep him and cut a player of lesser but still good ability and take a chance Hill won't screw up again?
Will Hill  
royhobbs7 : 5/27/2014 11:49 pm : link
Lets get real folks. Many people smoke grass either to relax, self-medicate, enjoy getting high, and/or actually attempt to reduce their physical pain (the least of the above reasons).
Nevertheless, whatever the reasons, it's time for the NFL to catch up to the present Zeitgeist of this country. By 2017, there is likely to be a federal law enacted to decriminalize and legalize marijuana throughout the US.
Sure I'm prejudiced in my view because I am a big Will Hill fan. However, haven't the major sports led the way in being the testing ground to change societal mores? Well (again), the NFL needs to step up here and change their drug policy regarding smoking reefer. Lots of players do it during the offseason. Unfortunately, it seems "Will the Thrill" has been under the microscope.
RE: even if he wins  
royhobbs7 : 5/27/2014 11:58 pm : link
In comment 11699026 bc4life said:
Quote:
how confident can you be he won't screw up again - they have a lot of players at the safety position. if he wins his appeal, do you keep him and cut a player of lesser but still good ability and take a chance Hill won't screw up again?


Mike,

I respect your opinion. But how can you say that Hill screwed up? Is that because he got caught? Remember, his previous indiscretion was with stimulant medication (which he claimed that he needed). Is smoking a little grass a screw up? I understand the rules that players are contracted to through the NFL CBA. However, getting caught smoking grass (IMHO) should not be grounds for suspension in the NFL. And if anything, the Giants should go to bat for Will and protect him (citing that the present rules in place for smoking marijuana are effete).
ROY...  
Goin Deep : 5/28/2014 12:18 am : link
That may be true..
But Rules are Rules and the NFL sticks to the Rules!
if hill is suspended  
aquidneck : 5/28/2014 1:42 am : link
he doesn't count on the roster. I don't have to cut anybody until he comes off suspension. And in the NFL there is always a real possibility that injury makes it unnecessary to cut somebody even then.

You're not going to lose a lesser but still good player by keeping a suspended Hill. If you lose that player in order to keep an active Hill, you haven't lost, you've won.

The turnover rate in the NFL is 20%+ year to year. Chances are the "lesser but still good player" is not going to be on the team next year anyway. Keep the better player.
It would be great for the team and Hill both  
BlueLou : 5/28/2014 6:59 am : link
if he could.
who is  
bc4life : 5/28/2014 8:22 am : link
mike?
Rules Are Rules  
Samiam : 5/28/2014 1:30 pm : link
how would BBI have reacted to LT getting suspended because he broke a few rules?
RE: RE: even if he wins  
GIANTSr01 : 5/28/2014 1:50 pm : link
In comment 11699137 royhobbs7 said:
Quote:
In comment 11699026 bc4life said:


Quote:


how confident can you be he won't screw up again - they have a lot of players at the safety position. if he wins his appeal, do you keep him and cut a player of lesser but still good ability and take a chance Hill won't screw up again?



Mike,

I respect your opinion. But how can you say that Hill screwed up? Is that because he got caught? Remember, his previous indiscretion was with stimulant medication (which he claimed that he needed). Is smoking a little grass a screw up? I understand the rules that players are contracted to through the NFL CBA. However, getting caught smoking grass (IMHO) should not be grounds for suspension in the NFL. And if anything, the Giants should go to bat for Will and protect him (citing that the present rules in place for smoking marijuana are effete).


He screwed up because he (reportedly) tested positive for a substance that is:
a) prohibited by the NFL's substance abuse policy and
b) is still illegal in 48 states and nationally

Whether or not is should (or will) be legalized in the coming years has no bearing on the case. The Commish might decide some leniency is in order due to the slowly changing landscape, but that doesn't mean Hill didn't screw up.

RE: RE: Based on what I had heard  
UberAlias : 5/28/2014 8:41 pm : link
In comment 11698350 Blue Blood said:
Quote:
In comment 11698337 UberAlias said:


Quote:


I'm not surprised.



not surprised at what ??


Not surprised they think he can win the appeal.
RE: RE: even if he wins  
Mike in Boston : 5/29/2014 6:25 am : link
In comment 11699137 royhobbs7 said:
Quote:
In comment 11699026 bc4life said:


Quote:


how confident can you be he won't screw up again - they have a lot of players at the safety position. if he wins his appeal, do you keep him and cut a player of lesser but still good ability and take a chance Hill won't screw up again?



Mike,

I respect your opinion. But how can you say that Hill screwed up? Is that because he got caught? Remember, his previous indiscretion was with stimulant medication (which he claimed that he needed). Is smoking a little grass a screw up? I understand the rules that players are contracted to through the NFL CBA. However, getting caught smoking grass (IMHO) should not be grounds for suspension in the NFL. And if anything, the Giants should go to bat for Will and protect him (citing that the present rules in place for smoking marijuana are effete).




Since Hill knew he was in the NFL's drug program and his job depended on staying clean in frequent unannounced drug tests, smoking weed, even in a state where it is already legal, qualifies as screwing up. Even if you think the rules are effete.
sure, he screwed up  
aquidneck : 5/29/2014 6:45 am : link
Just hope the Giants don't also screw up by cutting him.

(that's assuming that he's an otherwise good teammate - something I don't get to see everyday and admittedly know nothing about)
RE: RE: even if he wins  
Jimmy Googs : 5/29/2014 7:07 am : link
royhobbs7 said:
Quote:
And if anything, the Giants should go to bat for Will and protect him (citing that the present rules in place for smoking marijuana are effete).


Fairly certain this is not what the 2014 NY Giants will do. So what is up next on your legal strategy board?
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