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NFT: Who would win in a 7 game series - 86' Mets vs. 98' Yankees

CMicks3110 : 5/30/2014 3:04 pm
1B-Hernandez Vs. 1B-Tino Martinez ADV Mets
2B-Backman Vs. Knoblauch ADV Yankees
SS-Santana Vs. Jeter ADV Yankees
3B-Knight Vs. Brosius ADV Even
LF-Foster/Mitchell Vs. Curtis ADV Mets
CF-Dykstra/Wilson Vs. Bernie ADV Yankees
RF-Strawberry Vs. O'Neill ADV Mets
C-Carter Vs. Posada ADV Mets

SP-Gooden Vs. Wells ADV Mets
SP-Darling Vs.Pettite ADV Yankees
SP-Ojeda Vs. Cone ADV Even
SP-El Sid Vs. Irabu ADV Mets
SP-Aguilera Vs. El Duque ADV Yankees

UTL-Howard Johnson vs. Luis Sojo ADV Mets

CL-Orosco/McDowell Vs. Mariano ADV Yankees

Mets-8 Yankees-6 amongst major positions, I think it would have been an amazing series.
I think the Yanks would win in 5  
Vin R : 5/30/2014 3:12 pm : link
.
98 Yankees in the easiest series ever.  
kmed : 5/30/2014 3:12 pm : link
Next question.
Strawberry-O'Neill  
DelBlue91 : 5/30/2014 3:13 pm : link
if anything is a push, and in my opinion it may go Yankees if we're only talking that specific year.
Is that even a question  
Pork and Beans : 5/30/2014 3:13 pm : link
Yanks in 98 were in the discussion for best team ever
The Yankees in 1  
Headhunter : 5/30/2014 3:14 pm : link
the Mets would concede and beg forgiveness for bothering the Yankees
Sounds like a question  
illmatic : 5/30/2014 3:14 pm : link
a Mets fan would ask when they're having a wishful thinking moment.
6 games better  
MookGiants : 5/30/2014 3:15 pm : link
in the regular season is quite a bit of difference. The Yankees also went 11-2 in that postseason.

I generally like you guys...  
Dunedin81 : 5/30/2014 3:18 pm : link
but that is the Metsiest question to ask.
Unless you added Mike Scott from the Astros  
Headhunter : 5/30/2014 3:19 pm : link
there is nobody on that staff that didn't beat that were a lot better than them
And while I know Ojeda was great in '86 and for a stretch...  
Dunedin81 : 5/30/2014 3:19 pm : link
Cone put up excellent numbers playing in the middle of the best offensive era in baseball history.
By Pythagorean records  
Ash : 5/30/2014 3:21 pm : link
The yanks were 6 games better. I think they win in 5, maybe 6.
1998 Yankees in 6  
dpinzow : 5/30/2014 3:22 pm : link
1986 Mets wouldn't have enough offense. Remember the 86 Mets were not exactly dominant in the postseason, they barely won the NLCS and World Series. If the 1998 Yanks get the 86 Mets 2-0 down the way the 86 Red Sox, a far inferior team did, there's no coming back
Who uses 5 starters in the postseason?  
GIANTSr01 : 5/30/2014 3:23 pm : link
Irabu didn't pitch at all in the 98 playoffs. El Duque would be the #4 for the Yanks and that would still be an advantage for the Yanks.
The 99 Yanks would also beat  
dpinzow : 5/30/2014 3:25 pm : link
the 86 Mets in 5 or 6
Hahahaha  
Headhunter : 5/30/2014 3:26 pm : link
.
86 Mets needed an error AND a wild pitch  
deadkurtrulz : 5/30/2014 3:27 pm : link
to save them from being remembered as world class chokers. Should not even be mentioned with '98 Yanks.
hahahaha  
Headhunter : 5/30/2014 3:28 pm : link
.
86 Mets would beat almost any other world champion  
dpinzow : 5/30/2014 3:31 pm : link
since 1980 though, they were a hell of a team. Think they would beat the 96 and 2000 Yanks in 6 or 7...but the Yankee teams in 98 and 99 were almost perfect teams
Trying to prove an unprovable  
Headhunter : 5/30/2014 3:34 pm : link
with conviction is delusional.
Yanks.  
x meadowlander : 5/30/2014 3:34 pm : link
Mets only won because of Bill Buckner.

There's a reason that team only won one series. They were overrated. :)
I have a feeling that this thread is going to turn ugly  
Vin R : 5/30/2014 3:35 pm : link
.
Uh oh,  
kmed : 5/30/2014 3:36 pm : link
Mets fans is gonna start getting maaaddddd. Get ready for it.
I'm out  
Headhunter : 5/30/2014 3:36 pm : link
I prefer to deal in realities than hypotheticals, have at it
Rob Neyer rates only the 1939 Yanks and 1970 Orioles  
dpinzow : 5/30/2014 3:39 pm : link
above the 98 Yanks, for what it's worth
RE: The Yankees in 1  
mfsd : 5/30/2014 3:40 pm : link
In comment 11703596 Headhunter said:
Quote:
the Mets would concede and beg forgiveness for bothering the Yankees


Well played, HH!! It would be a great series, and a lot of fun too. I don't think the 98 Yanks would win as easily as some of my fellow Yankee fans think

I say 98 Yanks in 7...the difference being the 98 Yanks' bullpen
To me it's a pretty silly exercise...  
Dunedin81 : 5/30/2014 3:42 pm : link
different teams geared for success in different eras. Both very good teams. The 86 Mets struggled in the postseason and the Yanks didn't, but the difference between "struggling" and "steamrolling" can be just a few bad bounces or a pitch up in the zone.
I think what the OP was getting at......  
kmed : 5/30/2014 3:42 pm : link
What if each player played a 1 on 1 baseball game vs their counterpart. Who would win? He seems to think the Mets would win said 1 on 1 game 8-6. How else do you make sense of his ranking system?
This really is dumb guys  
Headhunter : 5/30/2014 3:45 pm : link
like if Rocky Marciano would fight Muhammed ali in their primes dumb
RE: To me it's a pretty silly exercise...  
GIANTSr01 : 5/30/2014 3:48 pm : link
In comment 11703706 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
different teams geared for success in different eras. Both very good teams. The 86 Mets struggled in the postseason and the Yanks didn't, but the difference between "struggling" and "steamrolling" can be just a few bad bounces or a pitch up in the zone.


I see what you did there... :=)
the 98 Yankees  
dutch1 : 5/30/2014 3:50 pm : link
They are 12 years younger!
Some food for thought  
weeg in the bronx : 5/30/2014 3:55 pm : link
The met starting pitching in 86 was miles ahead of the Yankees staff in 98. It's not close by any measure even factoring in the DH. So was the Met bullpen top to bottom. Orosco, who was a slightly above average closer had a great season, arguably as good as Riveras in 98 given that he pitched far more innings. One season, its a toss up. Plus the Mets faced tremendous competition that year all year. Stats don't lie.
It is all speculative  
Headhunter : 5/30/2014 3:57 pm : link
.
Headhunter  
Rob in NYC : 5/30/2014 4:01 pm : link
8 posts out of 32 for a thread that is stupid and you already bowed out of? I would hate to see what would happen if the topic interested you:)

Advanced stats say the Yanks, but beyond that...
What is important  
pjcas18 : 5/30/2014 4:03 pm : link
and provable is the Mets would win in a landslide if they had a real baseball brawl.

Strawberry and Backman are legit lunatics, Knight was a gold gloves boxer, Dykstra is a convicted felon nicknamed nails, and that doesn't even consider pitching staffs - Gooden when coked up is like a crazed dog.
And I think its a little unfair of Yankees fans  
Rob in NYC : 5/30/2014 4:07 pm : link
to diminish, however correctly, 1986...if the Mets didn't have 1986, they would be the...Royals?
I would rate the '27 Yanks above  
section125 : 5/30/2014 4:10 pm : link
the '39 Yanks.
I think that '98 team was as good a baseball team as there ever was.

1970 Orioles? Hmm, would have never considered them. Great pitching.
We are the Royals  
Headhunter : 5/30/2014 4:12 pm : link
we dont need the '86 team to prove that
RE: Some food for thought  
Greg from LI : 5/30/2014 4:14 pm : link
In comment 11703751 weeg in the bronx said:
Quote:
The met starting pitching in 86 was miles ahead of the Yankees staff in 98. It's not close by any measure even factoring in the DH. So was the Met bullpen top to bottom. Orosco, who was a slightly above average closer had a great season, arguably as good as Riveras in 98 given that he pitched far more innings. One season, its a toss up. Plus the Mets faced tremendous competition that year all year. Stats don't lie.


Not close by any measure....except for ERA+, which factors for era, league, and park. Yankees had a team ERA+ of 116, Mets of 115.
A Yankee fan thinking he can insult Met fans?  
Headhunter : 5/30/2014 4:15 pm : link
They have been doing a great job of insulting us with their on field performance for the last 6 years or have you not been paying attention?
on the field results directly  
pjcas18 : 5/30/2014 4:16 pm : link
depends if the Yankees are allowed to continue their rampant steroid/HGH abuse or not.
The only reason the '86 Mets won that year  
ed90631 : 5/30/2014 4:20 pm : link
was because Strawberry's and Gooden's coke connection was on the DL.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a Mets fan as well as a Yankees fan. But I think those 85 to 88 teams were a great disappointment due to their gross underacheivement, especially Strawberry. All that talent wasted.
RE: on the field results directly  
Greg from LI : 5/30/2014 4:22 pm : link
In comment 11703811 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
depends if the Yankees are allowed to continue their rampant steroid/HGH abuse or not.


Who on the Yankees was on steroids in 1998? Enlighten me.
The '88  
pjcas18 : 5/30/2014 4:23 pm : link
Dodgers with Hershiser and Valenzuela were a pretty good team too.

the NL had some good teams that era.

RE: on the field results directly  
Rob in NYC : 5/30/2014 4:23 pm : link
In comment 11703811 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
depends if the Yankees are allowed to continue their rampant steroid/HGH abuse or not.


This is fair - cocaine use actually degrades performance (Dykstra, Hernandez, Strawberry, Gooden, etc, etc,)
The 1969 Miracle Mets would be a better opponent for the 98 Yanks.  
wgenesis123 : 5/30/2014 4:24 pm : link
Atleast you could argue the 69 Mets won games that you wouldn't expect them to win. 98 Yanks by a landslide.
RE: RE: on the field results directly  
pjcas18 : 5/30/2014 4:24 pm : link
In comment 11703832 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 11703811 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


depends if the Yankees are allowed to continue their rampant steroid/HGH abuse or not.



Who on the Yankees was on steroids in 1998? Enlighten me.


I suspect everyone.
The '88 Dodgers were one of the weaker champs  
Greg from LI : 5/30/2014 4:30 pm : link
Look at the lineup the trotted out in the WS. It was horrible. That was a miracle run.
Mets in  
madgiantscow009 : 5/30/2014 4:35 pm : link
4.
Greg  
weeg in the bronx : 5/30/2014 4:37 pm : link
Adjusted ERA is a skewed number based on overall league ERA for the season, doesn't really factor in H/A splits and is far less 'scientific' than ERA, its like a Qb rating. Plus the met staff threw far more innings, more strikeouts, more CG. How does that get factored in?
The lineup  
pjcas18 : 5/30/2014 4:38 pm : link
wasn't all world, but the pitching staff had Orel Hershiser start 3 games in the NLCS and close one.

He lost the first two starts, pithed really well though.

the final game of the NLCS he pitched a CG SH.

He had complete games in both his world series starts.

His 1988 season IMO is slightly below Pedro's 1999 season as one of the most dominant baseball pitching performances I've seen.
8 CG SH.

If  
blue42 : 5/30/2014 4:49 pm : link
both teams are in bed by 10 every night the Mets,,,,
'98 Yankees.  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/30/2014 4:51 pm : link
.
'54 NY giants or about any of the Brooklyn teams from the 50"s  
plato : 5/30/2014 4:55 pm : link
The dodgers that is and the Manhattan based NYG
the Mets in six, no problem  
gtt350 : 5/30/2014 5:14 pm : link
.
the '86 Mets  
tomhagen : 5/30/2014 5:20 pm : link
relied heavily on late/9th inning comebacks. With Mariano in the game, and Stanton and Nelson setting him up, forget it. Yanks in 5.
With the exception of Mo Rivera, I'd say the teams were even.  
Shockeyisthebest80 : 5/30/2014 5:28 pm : link
That's a pretty damn big exception though.
RE: the Mets in six, no problem  
Greg from LI : 5/30/2014 5:29 pm : link
In comment 11703962 gtt350 said:
Quote:
.


They couldn't beat the '86 Red Sox in six, but they would beat the Yankees in six?
only one way to find out  
Jints in Carolina : 5/30/2014 5:29 pm : link
tonight I will play a 7 game series between the 86 Mets and 98 Yankees on Out Of the Park Baseball and post the results.

Yes, that is my Friday night.
Let's see we can't use the Mayor's Trophy  
Headhunter : 5/30/2014 5:32 pm : link
because that is passe. Certainly we can't give the Yankees their 28th World Championship based on this. What can we award the Yankees to acknowledge them winnig the hypothetical championship? A parade down the Canyon of Heroes is probably a no go. How about you build another monument in Monument Park with a plaque dedicated to winning this make believe match up?
RE: With the exception of Mo Rivera, I'd say the teams were even.  
Greg from LI : 5/30/2014 5:33 pm : link
In comment 11703997 Shockeyisthebest80 said:
Quote:
That's a pretty damn big exception though.


Yanks had enormous edges in CF with Bernie and SS with Jeter.
Yanks had the better  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 5/30/2014 5:38 pm : link
hitting and relief. Starting pitching is arguable. It would be close no matter who you gave the edge to.

Who knows who'd win a series but the Yanks would absolutely be favored because they were the better team.
it would be close no matter who you gave the edge to  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 5/30/2014 5:40 pm : link
that's only in reference to the starting pitching.
Darryl Strawberry was  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 5/30/2014 5:48 pm : link
the best pure power hitter on both teams lol. Amazing how he is considered a guy who fucked up his career and still accomplished that. Looking at the '86 Mets lineup I think I underestimated them but I'd still lean the Yanks lineup.

It's impossible to say who'd win in a series. But you can say who'd be favored in a series. And the '98 Yanks would be the favorite against pretty much any post-80s modern era baseball teams.
Greg the Mets won 108 games in '86  
gtt350 : 5/30/2014 5:48 pm : link
yes they could have beat the Yankees
Mets would have defeated that Yankees team  
Giants2012 : 5/30/2014 5:56 pm : link
4 out of 7 series in addition to 4 out of 7 games.
I wasn't comparing the teams position by position.  
Shockeyisthebest80 : 5/30/2014 5:57 pm : link
The 86 Mets were a team with above average hitters at 6 spots in the lineup. Plus, they had 3 or 4 guys who rotated in that were above average hitters. The Yankees were a better offensive team, but the Mets weren't slouches.

The only place were I see a massive gap is in the bullpen with Rivera.
RE: Greg the Mets won 108 games in '86  
Sgrcts : 5/30/2014 6:04 pm : link
In comment 11704041 gtt350 said:
Quote:
yes they could have beat the Yankees


rofl
RE: Darryl Strawberry was  
Mad Mike : 5/30/2014 6:19 pm : link
In comment 11704040 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
It's impossible to say who'd win in a series. But you can say who'd be favored in a series. And the '98 Yanks would be the favorite against pretty much any post-80s modern era baseball teams.

Exactly, that Mets team was really good, and of course they *could* win a series against the 98 Yankees, or anyone else. But the Yankees were the superior team and would win a majority of games if the two teams were actually able to play each other over a decent sized sample.
You might as well just ask people if they are a Mets or Yankees fan  
steve in ky : 5/30/2014 6:30 pm : link
.
RE: Greg the Mets won 108 games in '86  
Danny Kanell : 5/30/2014 6:35 pm : link
In comment 11704041 gtt350 said:
Quote:
yes they could have beat the Yankees


That's cute.
The Mets lost more games in the World Series alone  
Greg from LI : 5/30/2014 6:48 pm : link
Than the Yankees did in three playoff rounds.

Regarding offense...The only position at which the Mets had a clear edge was first base. The Yankees are even or better at every other position, with an incredibly large edge at SS that dwarfs any other advantage either team has. They also had the best hitter on either team by a fair margin (Bernie) and the greatest reliever to ever walk the earth.
Slim's chair  
Giants2012 : 5/30/2014 7:01 pm : link
right on schedule.
Bernie probably was the best hitter from both teams.  
Shockeyisthebest80 : 5/30/2014 7:14 pm : link
However, Keith Hernandez and Strawberry were arguably 2 of the top 5 hitters in the NL that season.

If you go by WAR, Keith Hernandez was more valuable in 1986 than Bernie was in 1998 (defense obviously the difference). However, '98 Jeter was more valuable than either of them.
this should be on Francesser's forum  
chris r : 5/30/2014 7:18 pm : link
.
Greg in LI: "and the greatest reliever to ever walk the earth."  
schnitzie : 5/30/2014 9:35 pm : link
Fuck.

Yeah.
the 1986 Mets had more talent  
oipolloi : 5/31/2014 1:12 am : link
but a lot of it was young and undeveloped (Dykstra, Mitchell, Hojo, El Sid, Aguilera)

the Yankees were a better team, with more savvy vets. So, I think the Yanks win. But sometimes young talent does prevail. So, you never know.

RE: 98 Yankees in the easiest series ever.  
Ralph.C : 5/31/2014 1:13 am : link
In comment 11703590 kmed said:
Quote:
Next question.


Um, no. Mets would win.
RE: 98 Yankees in the easiest series ever.  
Ralph.C : 5/31/2014 1:15 am : link
In comment 11703590 kmed said:
Quote:
Next question.


Um, no. Mets would win.
RE: If  
Ralph.C : 5/31/2014 1:16 am : link
In comment 11703909 blue42 said:
Quote:
both teams are in bed by 10 every night the Mets,,,,


LOL
RE: RE: 98 Yankees in the easiest series ever.  
Ralph.C : 5/31/2014 1:18 am : link
In comment 11704554 Ralph.C said:
Quote:
In comment 11703590 kmed said:


Quote:


The 1986 Mets would have beat ANY TEAM ever in that year.



Um, no. Mets would win.
Better thread title.....  
JPPyeaUknowME : 5/31/2014 1:51 am : link
Are you a Mets or Yankees fan?
Yankees  
Mr. Nickels : 5/31/2014 1:59 am : link
in 4
and yes  
Mr. Nickels : 5/31/2014 2:04 am : link
Francesser should do a shoaaah on dis
I thought Wettland (sp) was the closer in 1998  
RobCarpenter : 5/31/2014 2:16 am : link
Not Mariano, who was the set up man.
My bad  
RobCarpenter : 5/31/2014 3:06 am : link
I was thinking about the 96 team.
bullpens  
Bill2 : 5/31/2014 8:41 am : link
Were used very differently in 1998 and the Yankees were the best in class at making the last three innings a very hard road to climb for the opposing team.

in particular  
Bill2 : 5/31/2014 8:48 am : link
Mariano was 13 innings in the 1998 playoffs with an Era of 0.00

In 1999 he was the WS MVP

We forget how dominant he was back then

And across his career i think his playoff record was about 110 innings with an ERa of 0.81

In sum the Yankees played an inning more than the opponents back then
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