Amukamara on the Loss of Will Hill

just cut a future hall of fame safety. Seriously? He is unreliable. He was given parameters by which to conduct himself and he could not comply. He was given all of the support in the world to battle his demons and still put himself in a bad spot - fully knowing the consequences. THREE failed tests after getting kicked off his college team - Florida no less. No other team wanted him and the Giants gave him an opportunity that he flushed down the toilet.

And spare me on how much he "saved" the Giants secondary last year. Last I checked, they were 7-9. That does not sound like a "saved" team to me.

just can't straighten out. We took the same risk with Plaxico. The guy was a malcontent and a trouble-maker with the Steelers, and we luckily got a window from him where he didn't do anything devastatingly stupid.

Then he did. Some guys always do. Just a matter of time.

of poor behavior and, lacking signs of redemption, it's unreasonable to believe it would stop.

Terrible loss but what else could the Giants do?

It's called Progressive Discipline.

Anyone who has run an organization or managed people knows that there have to be rules and consequences for breaking the rules.

When an employee violates one of the rules you sit them down, explain the violation and tell them the consequences if they break the rule again.

The Giants likely did the same thing with Hill, letting him know at "strike two" that if he violated the substance abuse policy again he would be gone. They probably even asked him if he understood the consequences for another violation.

So what else could they do when Hill broke the rules for a third time?

Should they have said that they were only kidding when they told him he would be cut after strike three?

Should they have said that they'd let him slide one more time, but if he did it again they would actually follow through on their promise to cut him?

What message would that have sent to Will Hill and to his teammates?

You can't run a team like that.

Will Hill knew the rules and the repercussions for breaking the substance abuse policy a third time.

The Giants didn't cut him. Will Hill cut himself.

because he got three strikes etc. And, I understand that you can't smoke weed in the NFL, no matter how trivial some may think the infraction is. With that said, all of his teammates seem to think he is a good guy, and it hurts to cut him. I really do think he is trying, but he just fell short. And this cut was not because he is a bad guy, but simply because he continued to break team rules. Another team is going to be very fortunate that we were forced to take a principled decision.

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...“The Giants just told me that they had my back, they had my support, but another slip-up and that’s that,” Hill told The Star-Ledger...

"...Another slip-up and that's that..."

'Nuff said..

Counting this year's suspension, Will Hill will have missed 14 games in three years. And the next time he gets suspended, he's out for a full season.

It's the equivalent of a guy who is very productive but constantly injured. At some point the team has to go with somebody who has a better chance of giving you 16 full games.

They aren't asking him to move mountains here. Don't fail a drug test - how goddamned hard is that? Somehow Antrel Rolle manages to not fail drug tests, and Stevie Brown, and Cooper Taylor, and so on and so on.

do not have the rough and disadvantaged upbringing this kid had. I am for cutting him, but I do take into consideration that his teammates were saying that he really was trying to stay on a straight and narrow path. He failed, but it doesn't mean he wasn't trying to be a good player and teammate. I can feel bad for him and at the same time think he should have been cut.

His father is a police chief in Florida.

He knew the terms, he violated them.
Even if the league excepted weed from the drug policy, with someone like WH who apparently has -0- self control,and supposing he tokes up or gets a ride from some buddies and gets a contact/2nd hand smoke high;-),game day,and has that 'glow', narrow-eyed look, you think he's helpful even 4 hours later?
TC(not naive) likely makes him an inactive for punishment.
Same for an alcohol stupor for those that like to equivocate the substances.
He really needs to check into a long term rehab place or we read about him 10 years from now in a Mark Ingram I kind of story. In'15 I think he'll be 26 w/o the wear and tear and can get back someplace, maybe even NYFG if he really can prove his rehabilitation.

In comment 11708795 Greg from LI said:

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His father is a police chief in Florida.

i.e. he know how to cover up his crimes




kidding....

Another gutless move for a franchise headed in the wrong direction. I’ve been a Giants’ fan for 50+ years and to hear that they will not support a player because he is denied due process for an outdated law is just showing how clueless this organization has morphed into, under Reese (in such a short period of time). Yeah, they should have given him one more chance given the circumstances, and given what some of the other players and former Giants who were close to Will had to say. I’m really disgusted. This team is turning real soft. They protected LT, didn’ t they? That was because Parcells had his players back!

Tuck (for good reason), Linval Joseph and Hill are gone. Those were three of the five most determined players on defense last year. Who is going to replace them? Rookie DT Jay Bromley? PUHLEESSSEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

is as frustrating as the decision itself. could have waited to see what we have with demps and taylor, and player health returning from injury... this also gives a team a chance to sign him and acclamate to the system so he can return in good form after 6 weeks.
This likely bites in the ass big time.

You better hope that he is not "the moron" you believe him to be.

"Wow", smoking weed gets you suspended and then cut by your team in the NFL. But killing a person while driving drunk only gets you a month in prison and then a FA contract the following year (re: Dante Stallworth)? Something smells rotten with the NFL!

In comment 11708546 Crispino said:

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to play for so he can "get back "at the Giants for cutting him. He's that kind of moron.

LT did get suspended for drugs and eventually stop using during his career for fear of getting kicked out of the league

I remember reading that he remained clean until the day he retired when he promptly went out on a bender

Absolutely correct!!!!!!!!!!!!


In comment 11708548 mfsd said:

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In comment 11708536 bceagle05 said: Quote: on Parcells' Giants teams. That's not a fair statement. Parcells spent his first couple years getting rid of the coke heads on the team. Sure, LT is a separate story and you can debate the double standard for LT vs everyone else, but it's not accurate to imply Parcells overlooked things like this

In comment 11708885 royhobbs7 said:

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You better hope that he is not "the moron" you believe him to be. "Wow", smoking weed gets you suspended and then cut by your team in the NFL. But killing a person while driving drunk only gets you a month in prison and then a FA contract the following year (re: Dante Stallworth)? Something smells rotten with the NFL! In comment 11708546 Crispino said: Quote: to play for so he can "get back "at the Giants for cutting him. He's that kind of moron.

We have a "new" troll.

Are you comparing Will Hill to Chris Carter? God, Chris Carter had a very bad drinking problem prior to getting his act together. Will Hill? All the players support him and allege that he was not an addict. If he is indeed a recreational user of marijuana, a great injustice just occurred.
Hill is not a knucklehead. He "Will" be missed considerably. And the Giants just stuck their proverbial foot in their mouth (because he is not replaceable)!


In comment 11708540 bceagle05 said:

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Just a knucklehead off the field. The Eagles released Cris Carter and it wound up changing his career and life. Hope this has a similar effect on Hill.

You are SPOT ON, my friend!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Goodbye Tuck, Joseph & Hill. That's 3 out of 5 of your most determined defensive players last year. Who's going to replace them? Ayers, and rookies Bromley and Behre? Ha! Ha! Ha! In our dreams!


In comment 11708633 Reese's Pieces said:

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waive a Will Hill, an apparent good guy brought down by the trivial offense of smoking marijuana, which is no longer even a crime in many states. This has brought me down. I was seeing Pierre-Paul, Beason, Hill, Rolle, DRC, and Brown forming a strong nucleus of talented players on defense supported by decent players Kiwanuka, Hankins, Williams and Prince. And I forgot McClain. Maybe he can replace the physicality of Hill. I wonder who made the final call. The owners, or did they defer to the coach. I hope not. The old man probably still ranks marijuana with coke.

What opportunities did the Giants give him? Were they proactive with supporting him with counseling for his drug issues. Did they have a veteran teammate shadow him?
What exactly did he do? He took some Ritalin and smoked some reefer (on his own time). Yes, he knew the rules. But now that 30+ states have medical marijuana and the Feds voted the other day not to interfere with any state that has a medical marijuana statute, I find this alarming. The NFL did not even attempt to give Hill due process. What is even more
contemptuous regarding the NFL, the Giants and Hill (in this instance)is that there will probably be a negotiation between the NFL and NFLPA to change their agreement on suspending players for recreational marijuana use within the next two years. They are already in talks regarding this issue given that penalizing players is not gravitating towards the present zeitgeist regarding marijuana use in this country.

In comment 11708681 SanFranGiantsFan said:

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I think this is all pretty straightforward: the Giants gave him opportunity after opportunity after opportunity & he continuously thumbed his nose at them. Nobody is going to dispute the dude's talent; he could play in this league. Unfortunately he couldn't stay away from grass. There has to be consequences for his repeated suspensions & cutting him was the only option left.

I know he's dumb and broke the rules, but there is just something about this that bothers me. I have this gut feeling that this move is going to come back to haunt them. Hope I'm wrong.

Yes, yes and YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


In comment 11708662 Reese's Pieces said:

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In comment 11708642 Blue Blood said: Quote: its not a question if its a crime.. Its against the league policy.. he knew the rules.. he chose not to abide by them.. if I am required to wear a suit at my job.. no matter how talented I am.. if I continue to break the rules.. I would be fired.. Will Hil couldnt adhere to the rules of his workplace environment.. period.. dont blame the Giants.. or the NFL.. the blame is squarely on him.. Sorry, but I think that you are being naïve. As long as there have been leagues there have been league rules that have been broken. You can start with Mickey Mantle and Babe Ruth, two of the biggest drunkards and womanizers in the history of sports in this country. They were not kicked off the team or ostracized from the league for their repeated violation of team and league rules. No, they are in the Hall of Fame and have monuments in Yankee Stadium. And Lawrence Taylor. Do I detect a big groundswell of support from all of you out there for evicting him from the Hall of Fame? I didn't think so. Will Hill's problem was not smoking marijuana. It was for being stupid enough to be caught.

In comment 11708895 royhobbs7 said:

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Are you comparing Will Hill to Chris Carter? God, Chris Carter had a very bad drinking problem prior to getting his act together. Will Hill? All the players support him and allege that he was not an addict. If he is indeed a recreational user of marijuana, a great injustice just occurred. Hill is not a knucklehead. He "Will" be missed considerably. And the Giants just stuck their proverbial foot in their mouth (because he is not replaceable)! In comment 11708540 bceagle05 said: Quote: Just a knucklehead off the field. The Eagles released Cris Carter and it wound up changing his career and life. Hope this has a similar effect on Hill.

Yeah, Hill is no addict. He just can't help using weed to deal with his problems, back child support, arrest warrants and livelihood. Oh wait...

will he play for the Giants? 0. Pre-emptive strike my ass; Total stupidity. I blame in part the Giants beat reporters including Eric and Connor Hughes for this idiocy. Do you think the Dallas reporters would have created an environment among the fan base where Dallas would dare cut a top performer. No way.

Explain to me how this franchise can have a mediocre racist alcoholic QB and a mediocre accused rapist defensive tackle play for it but not a potential all pro pot smoker.

Give Amukamora credit for saying the truth about Hill's value last year.

my favorite so far.

I especially like the part where the NY media (and BBI) created an environment of disgust for Will Hill that Mara/Reese just had to cut him.

That's just classic...

In comment 11708933 WillieYoung said:

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will he play for the Giants? 0. Pre-emptive strike my ass; Total stupidity. I blame in part the Giants beat reporters including Eric and Connor Hughes for this idiocy. Do you think the Dallas reporters would have created an environment among the fan base where Dallas would dare cut a top performer. No way. Explain to me how this franchise can have a mediocre racist alcoholic QB and a mediocre accused rapist defensive tackle play for it but not a potential all pro pot smoker. Give Amukamora credit for saying the truth about Hill's value last year.

So this is how you fit 10 pounds of stupid into a 5 pound bag. Congrats?

In comment 11708933 WillieYoung said:

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will he play for the Giants? 0. Pre-emptive strike my ass; Total stupidity. I blame in part the Giants beat reporters including Eric and Connor Hughes for this idiocy. Do you think the Dallas reporters would have created an environment among the fan base where Dallas would dare cut a top performer. No way. Explain to me how this franchise can have a mediocre racist alcoholic QB and a mediocre accused rapist defensive tackle play for it but not a potential all pro pot smoker. Give Amukamora credit for saying the truth about Hill's value last year.

When I was reading that all I could think of was that Mad Libs game that we played as kids.

In comment 11708933 WillieYoung said:

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Do you think the Dallas reporters would have created an environment among the fan base where Dallas would dare cut a top performer. No way.

Wait...are you trying to say the Giants should be more like the Cowboys? As in the franchise that hasn't had success since the Clinton administration?

In comment 11708933 WillieYoung said:

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will he play for the Giants? 0. Pre-emptive strike my ass; Total stupidity. I blame in part the Giants beat reporters including Eric and Connor Hughes for this idiocy. Do you think the Dallas reporters would have created an environment among the fan base where Dallas would dare cut a top performer. No way. Explain to me how this franchise can have a mediocre racist alcoholic QB and a mediocre accused rapist defensive tackle play for it but not a potential all pro pot smoker. Give Amukamora credit for saying the truth about Hill's value last year.

Bahah.. yeah, Connor Hughes and Eric are calling the shots for the Giants now. This is all their fault.

At least AMUKAMORA told us the truth.

In comment 11708916 Corey said:

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I know he's dumb and broke the rules, but there is just something about this that bothers me. I have this gut feeling that this move is going to come back to haunt them. Hope I'm wrong.

This guy is no more valuable than Tiki was and arguably Shockey. We did quite alright w/o either of them.

The important part is the remaining rotation. We have a few high upside guys and the starters, Rolle and Stevie Brown (if healthy) are very good.

Yes, he has tremendous football talent and athletic ability. However, it is also clear that the man is a dedicated drug addict! I base this on the simple fact of his complete inability to control his drug habit even with millions of dollars in contracts waiving right in front of his face. Then add in his constantly letting his teammates down by his inability to control his drug habits and getting repeatedly suspended. Sure some team will no doubt pick him up, but the Giants were very patient in trying to get him to see the light and their efforts failed. Time to cut bait and move on. I applaud the Giants move and congratulate them for not continuing to reward bad behavior!

this is about the Giants, not the nfl. The nfl imposed a 6-game suspension, the Giants were the ones who decided to cut bait.

Somebody just above me noted that the Giants did surprisingly well right after losing impact players tiki and shockey. Let's just all wish Will Hill luck and hope for similar magic.

is knuckle-headed, age discriminatory, and if I had to guess-racist. See we can all play that game. Tom Coughlin is a traditional Roman Catholic who believes in redemption. Witness: Tyree, MacKenzie, Diehl , Boley et.al. What happened with Hill is management was not thrilled with having one of its employees around for roughly 60 % of a season, absence not due to injury . Concerning the pot, this is of a different composition than we had in the free-wheeling seventies. Not yet classified as addictive but much more habit-forming. Hill is similar to Tannard Jackson, who was another safety of enormous promise who basically smoked his career away. Can Hill reform and become a reliable teammate and father? Yeah anything can happen but don't bet on him. Remember it was the Giants who gave him a chance and it was the Giants he poked in the ass.

Just look at those beady eyes, that weak chin...a born trouble-maker...evil incarnate.

As for Eric's hand-picked hatchet man, Connor Hughes, he probably had that editorial written weeks ago, salivating at the thought of having it published on BBI, pouring salt onto a grievously wounded Will Hill.

Keep fighting the good fight, Willie.

In comment 11708880 royhobbs7 said:

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Another gutless move for a franchise headed in the wrong direction. I’ve been a Giants’ fan for 50+ years and to hear that they will not support a player because he is denied due process for an outdated law is just showing how clueless this organization has morphed into, under Reese (in such a short period of time). Yeah, they should have given him one more chance given the circumstances, and given what some of the other players and former Giants who were close to Will had to say. I’m really disgusted. This team is turning real soft. They protected LT, didn’ t they? That was because Parcells had his players back! Tuck (for good reason), Linval Joseph and Hill are gone. Those were three of the five most determined players on defense last year. Who is going to replace them? Rookie DT Jay Bromley? PUHLEESSSEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Yeah, they should have given him one more chance given the circumstances"
They DID give him one more chance - last year. At some point, you have to stop giving a guy "one more chance" or he'll never change, nor will any of the other players believe you. In "Earn the Right to Win," Tom Coughlin points out the necessity of instilling discipline, setting out rule and expectation, and treating all players by those same rules. It doesn't matter whether it was Will Hill, Julian Talley, or JPP. When a player continuously shows a disregard for team rules and puts himself above the team, then he must be removed. I loved the talent Hill showed, but he was given enough chances.

than a JRR Tolkien novel.

In comment 11708589 Arcanum said:

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Is no surprise to me. A female I used to date, started dating Will last year. And she smokes like a chimney. If he did catch second hand smoke, it was probably from her ass.

this
made
my
day

1. Hill was a tremendous asset on the field, a model teammate and made a number of big tackles and plays last year. We are a better team when he is playing than when he is not.
2. Hill is not bigger than the rules or the team; he was given one last chance to shape up and stay out of trouble and he didn't comply. out of principle, you have to treat everyone equally otherwise no one has respect for the rules and chaos can ensue. if he slipped up again, which given his history and lack of respect for the policies is likely, it could be a year long type of suspension and serve as even a bigger risk and disruption than it already has been,
3. Hill's infractions of the rules seem relatively minor and benign in the big picture and relative to some bad things other people have done

Cumulatively point #2 wins out over #1 and #3 as painful as that is.

"teach a lesson" by cutting him. Whatever lesson that was taught is impaired by the loss of talent.

In comment 11709507 Shockeyisthebest80 said:

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"teach a lesson" by cutting him. Whatever lesson that was taught is impaired by the loss of talent.

That doesn't make sense. I don't see how the lesson is impaired. The lesson is you can't keep screwing up and making excuses and play here. He's no longer here. They have decided that they don't want his talent. Of course you as a fan may not agree.

beyond suspension and loss of wages. Losing almost 40% of a year's salary is quite a hit. The rest of the guys in the room see THAT as a major deterrence.

As Prince states in his comments, Hill will be on another team... he's too talented not to be. There's a decent chance he'll end up with a better contract than the one he just had. It's not as if Will Hill's options are the Giants or a park bench. That's where the lesson loses whatever perceived power comes from it. The fact that he "won't be here" isn't going to hurt Will Hill. It's just going to hurt the Giants.

suspending a player because he watches pornography. It is beyond absurd. But I don't blame the Giants for releasing Hill. My guess is they would rather fill his roster spot with a DB that will be with the team all year, even if he doesn't have Hill's talent, rather than wait for Hill to return and then risk losing him again. I do, however, blame the league for a totally asinine rule and I look forward to their coming to their senses and dropping it.

In comment 11708710 mattnyg05 said:

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Great, great player. One of the most disappointing things I can remember as a fan.

Hill wasn't great. Tiki Barber was a "great great" player.

In comment 11708546 Crispino said:

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to play for so he can "get back "at the Giants for cutting him. He's that kind of moron.

He'll look for any team that will have him. It's not likely that his whole agenda is going to be "getting back at the Giants". Are you saying you wouldn't take a paycheck from a competitor after your company fired you (for cause)? Someone sounds like they are full of sh*t.

cant fix stupid I guess

its a damn shame cause there are a million guys with less talent that would take this wasted talent and use it to have a career

But some of you think that the Giants should have just moved the line back some more, and expected Hill to not cross it again.

If you have no teeth to following through with consequences to the rules you have stated, then you remove the incentive to follow the rules.

Hill cleared waivers. No teams are stumbling over each other to sign him yet.

In comment 11710195 Bramton1 said:

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But some of you think that the Giants should have just moved the line back some more, and expected Hill to not cross it again. If you have no teeth to following through with consequences to the rules you have stated, then you remove the incentive to follow the rules.

It's this, and the fact that if you bend the rules for one guy, no matter how talented, the rest will start to expect the same.

It sucks that Hill is gone, but the Giants really had no other choice.

In comment 11708658 mac attack said:

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With3 strikes already against him, the odds if him fucking up again are high (no pun intended). In the post Aaron Hernandez world we live on these days, teams will tend to air on the side of caution every time (Not comparing weed to murder, but rather character issues in general). Will Hill should be the first thought in every player's head when in situations off the field that could potentially be a suspensable act.

I think this post might be a suspensable airor.