Amukamara on the Loss of Will Hill

Going to be tough to replace. Million dollar talent and ten cent head.

Guys like this are making my love for the game disappear. Too many assholes in this league to be as vested in it as I used to be. As I get older it's tougher to be as passionate as I once was.

it was so much better back in the (g)olden days.

on Parcells' Giants teams.

Is that it seemed like all the players liked him and that he worked his ass off. The weed smoking aside, I honestly believe he grew up a ton since he's been a Giant. It really sucks to lose such a great young talent because of smoking weed. (I get he was cut for repeated suspensions/unreliability, I'm talking about the NFL when I say weed).

Just a knucklehead off the field. The Eagles released Cris Carter and it wound up changing his career and life. Hope this has a similar effect on Hill.

In comment 11708537 AnotherGiantsFan said:

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Is that it seemed like all the players liked him and that he worked his ass off. The weed smoking aside, I honestly believe he grew up a ton since he's been a Giant. It really sucks to lose such a great young talent because of smoking weed. (I get he was cut for repeated suspensions/unreliability, I'm talking about the NFL when I say weed).

It's not the NFL's fault. It is the NFLPA's fault for agreeing to that in the CBA. From the sound of things it seems like most teams don't give a shit about smoking weed. They do care, however, about violating the leagues substance abuse rules. The NFLPA's probably could have easily negotiated that out of the contract.

to play for so he can "get back "at the Giants for cutting him. He's that kind of moron.

In comment 11708536 bceagle05 said:

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on Parcells' Giants teams.

That's not a fair statement. Parcells spent his first couple years getting rid of the coke heads on the team. Sure, LT is a separate story and you can debate the double standard for LT vs everyone else, but it's not accurate to imply Parcells overlooked things like this

I was just pointing out that this type of character isn't new to the Giants' neighborhood. I think we go overboard sometimes waxing poetic about our high standards. Plenty of knuckleheads have worn the blue, including two who are sitting in jail cells as we speak.

Is naive. I liked Will Hill but he is to unreliable off the field for the Giantsto keep him. We have others that can play his position so move on.

In comment 11708550 bceagle05 said:

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I was just pointing out that this type of character isn't new to the Giants' neighborhood. I think we go overboard sometimes waxing poetic about our high standards. Plenty of knuckleheads have worn the blue, including two who are sitting in jail cells as we speak.

Does this mean that the owners now,who weren't the owners then, shouldn't draw a line in the sand? Because twenty years ago the Giants had players with issues?

I don't completely agree with this decision, but I think it's clear from the way they drafted that this regime has decided to go with high character players. For better or worse. LT and Meggett (who by the way didn't have issues until he retired, nor did Inghram) have nothing to do with it

.

Will Hill needs to be relocated far away from NJ. I'm not sure he is strong enough to survive a relocation away from friends and fam; but that is what he needs.

They probably wish they had done it with Plax before he reamed us out of back-to-back championships. I was just responding to the poster who said his interest in football has faded because of today's players. Today's players aren't much different than yesterday's players, that's all.

but you have to respect the decision.

In comment 11708560 Meggett (who by the way didn't have issues until he retired, nor did Inghram) have nothing to do with it [/quote]
Actually, while Ingram didn't have any legal issues while playing for the Giants, he spent 3 weeks in jail in college for stealing.

on the field,but the kid had 3 chances. He failed and now he's gone.

I do hope this is a kick in the ass for him and he realizes what he can lose. Maybe this is just what he needs to make a change in his life for his football career. Weed is not worth losing out on a career where he can make millions of dollars a year with the talent he has.

are calling...

Is no surprise to me. A female I used to date, started dating Will last year. And she smokes like a chimney. If he did catch second hand smoke, it was probably from her ass.

And his teammates seemed to be cool with him. I think the locker room reaction is very important for this story. Will Hill was an idiot and he did this to himself. But this sucks.

Coughlin is a general and the players are his soldiers. So I get why he values treating everyone the same. He has the 2 rings and you have to respect that. But I think keeping Will Hill would've helped this team more than it would hurt it.

Just stay out of San Fran or the NFC east please. Or keep smoking weed.

Hill isn't helping the team if he isn't playing. His track record indicates that this will be repeated in the future.

than anyone who supports him now like me will look like an idiot. And with his track record I get why you don't place your reputation on his shoulders. Especially when he only has less than one full season of great production. He could possibly be a one year wonder. Just a lot of risk there for the Giants and keeping him could've backfired. But there would be an on-field reward had they kept him and he played for us imo, I don't think he was a one year wonder.

He absolutely would've helped us on the field. It may have taken him time to adjust back to game speed and all the schemes, but he looked like an All Pro caliber Safety last year. In 10 games he showed me more than Kenny Phillips ever did. KP was a very reliable safety but he was far from the absolute stud Hill is. He could've played 10 games next year after the suspension.

.

Yeah, that's why Reese took a chance on him; Reese saw that too.

waive a Will Hill, an apparent good guy brought down by the trivial offense of smoking marijuana, which is no longer even a crime in many states. This has brought me down. I was seeing Pierre-Paul, Beason, Hill, Rolle, DRC, and Brown forming a strong nucleus of talented players on defense supported by decent players Kiwanuka, Hankins, Williams and Prince. And I forgot McClain. Maybe he can replace the physicality of Hill.

I wonder who made the final call. The owners, or did they defer to the coach. I hope not. The old man probably still ranks marijuana with coke.

waive a Will Hill, an apparent good guy brought down by the trivial offense of smoking marijuana, which is no longer even a crime in many states. This has brought me down. I was seeing Pierre-Paul, Beason, Hill, Rolle, DRC, and Brown forming a strong nucleus of talented players on defense supported by decent players Kiwanuka, Hankins, Williams and Prince. And I forgot McClain. Maybe he can replace the physicality of Hill.

I wonder who made the final call. The owners, or did they defer to the coach. I hope not. The old man probably still ranks marijuana with coke.

its not a question if its a crime.. Its against the league policy.. he knew the rules.. he chose not to abide by them.. if I am required to wear a suit at my job.. no matter how talented I am.. if I continue to break the rules.. I would be fired..

Will Hil couldnt adhere to the rules of his workplace environment.. period.. dont blame the Giants.. or the NFL.. the blame is squarely on him..

He had 3 chances and blew it" line of thinking. I don't get the lack of understanding for a kid who rose above some tough times through sports and hasn't hurt anyone but himself with weed. The Team has made exceptions in the past both before and after the players were Giants. The teammates liked him so who wins here? The organization for adhering to some moral code that for years put concussed players on the field? Coughlin for reminding players he is still in charge? What's the saying? Never look down on someone unless you are bending to help them up.

or to just stay away, he was unreliable. But he was ultra reliable on the field. He wasn't a cancer in the locker room. He followed team rules. And on the field, he was one of our very best players. Cutting Will Hill was a very stupid move.

In comment 11708642 Blue Blood said:

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its not a question if its a crime.. Its against the league policy.. he knew the rules.. he chose not to abide by them.. if I am required to wear a suit at my job.. no matter how talented I am.. if I continue to break the rules.. I would be fired.. Will Hil couldnt adhere to the rules of his workplace environment.. period.. dont blame the Giants.. or the NFL.. the blame is squarely on him..

For me, it's not about placing blame, it's just disappointing. I was hoping that management would stick by him. It's not as if he wasn't going to pay a price for his failure, he was going to miss out on six paychecks. And he wasn't going to cost the Giants a roster spot during the six weeks, so what was really the downside of keeping him? After the six weeks they could re-evaluate and either waive him or add him to the roster. And given the likelihood to at least one or two season-ending injuries to the roster during those six weeks, chances are there would've been a roster spot open.

People can talk about how he was someone you can't rely on, but at the minimum NFL wage for a third year player, minus the six of seventeen paychecks, the cost was minimal, so it wasn't like they would've been relying on him for anything more than the 53rd roster spot at a position where they lacked depth. As cost-benefit analysis goes, I thought he was a keeper. And aside from some tasteless posts to social media during his college days, he didn't strike me as a bad guy, just a knucklehead (as bceagle05 said).

It will be interesting to see where he lands.

With3 strikes already against him, the odds if him fucking up again are high (no pun intended). In the post Aaron Hernandez world we live on these days, teams will tend to air on the side of caution every time (Not comparing weed to murder, but rather character issues in general). Will Hill should be the first thought in every player's head when in situations off the field that could potentially be a suspensable act.

He decided to break them. That carries consequences. Yes it's tough to lose a good player. His choice and his consequence. Maybe this will help him in the long run. I hope so.

But if he signs with another team, how are the consequences really all that different for him? He is going to miss out on the same six paychecks regardless, so the only ones suffering the consequences of his being cut are his teammates, his coaches, and the Giants fans.

Who knows, maybe in his exit interview they told him that if he keeps his nose (and lungs) clean and attends regular meetings with some kind of support group, they'll consider bringing him back when his suspension is up. Not bloody likely, but the longer he goes without signing with another team, the more possible it is.

After he was released by the Patriots, Christian Peter was told by the Giants that he would have to spend a year out of football working a regular job, taking classes, going to therapy, and attending AA meetings before they would sign him. The Dolphins (during the Jimmy Johnson reign) offered to sign him right away, but he chose to stick with the Giants plan at the cost of a year of football and the salary that goes with it.

In comment 11708642 Blue Blood said:

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its not a question if its a crime.. Its against the league policy.. he knew the rules.. he chose not to abide by them.. if I am required to wear a suit at my job.. no matter how talented I am.. if I continue to break the rules.. I would be fired.. Will Hil couldnt adhere to the rules of his workplace environment.. period.. dont blame the Giants.. or the NFL.. the blame is squarely on him..

Sorry, but I think that you are being naïve. As long as there have been leagues there have been league rules that have been broken. You can start with Mickey Mantle and Babe Ruth, two of the biggest drunkards and womanizers in the history of sports in this country. They were not kicked off the team or ostracized from the league for their repeated violation of team and league rules. No, they are in the Hall of Fame and have monuments in Yankee Stadium.

And Lawrence Taylor. Do I detect a big groundswell of support from all of you out there for evicting him from the Hall of Fame? I didn't think so.

Will Hill's problem was not smoking marijuana. It was for being stupid enough to be caught.

In comment 11708560 BigBlueShock said:

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In comment 11708550 bceagle05 said: Quote: I was just pointing out that this type of character isn't new to the Giants' neighborhood. I think we go overboard sometimes waxing poetic about our high standards. Plenty of knuckleheads have worn the blue, including two who are sitting in jail cells as we speak. Does this mean that the owners now,who weren't the owners then, shouldn't draw a line in the sand? Because twenty years ago the Giants had players with issues? I don't completely agree with this decision, but I think it's clear from the way they drafted that this regime has decided to go with high character players. For better or worse. LT and Meggett (who by the way didn't have issues until he retired, nor did Inghram) have nothing to do with it

It would be nice to think high character guys win championships. But is that the reality?

Ray Lewis, LT, Bill Belichik, Plax, Dave Meggett, Big Ben, Michael Irvin, Brett Favre, Aaron Hernandez--those guys have a decent amount of rings among them.

In comment 11708661 Milton said:

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But if he signs with another team, how are the consequences really all that different for him? He is going to miss out on the same six paychecks regardless, so the only ones suffering the consequences of his being cut are his teammates, his coaches, and the Giants fans. Who knows, maybe in his exit interview they told him that if he keeps his nose (and lungs) clean and attends regular meetings with some kind of support group, they'll consider bringing him back when his suspension is up. Not bloody likely, but the longer he goes without signing with another team, the more possible it is. After he was released by the Patriots, Christian Peter was told by the Giants that he would have to spend a year out of football working a regular job, taking classes, going to therapy, and attending AA meetings before they would sign him. The Dolphins (during the Jimmy Johnson reign) offered to sign him right away, but he chose to stick with the Giants plan at the cost of a year of football and the salary that goes with it.

Milton, he has to be signed with a team to serve his suspension. He can't just sit out six weeks and sign with any team and just play.

I think this is all pretty straightforward: the Giants gave him opportunity after opportunity after opportunity & he continuously thumbed his nose at them. Nobody is going to dispute the dude's talent; he could play in this league. Unfortunately he couldn't stay away from grass. There has to be consequences for his repeated suspensions & cutting him was the only option left.

In comment 11708677 robbieballs2003 said:

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In comment 11708661 Milton said: Quote: But if he signs with another team, how are the consequences really all that different for him? He is going to miss out on the same six paychecks regardless, so the only ones suffering the consequences of his being cut are his teammates, his coaches, and the Giants fans. Who knows, maybe in his exit interview they told him that if he keeps his nose (and lungs) clean and attends regular meetings with some kind of support group, they'll consider bringing him back when his suspension is up. Not bloody likely, but the longer he goes without signing with another team, the more possible it is. After he was released by the Patriots, Christian Peter was told by the Giants that he would have to spend a year out of football working a regular job, taking classes, going to therapy, and attending AA meetings before they would sign him. The Dolphins (during the Jimmy Johnson reign) offered to sign him right away, but he chose to stick with the Giants plan at the cost of a year of football and the salary that goes with it. Milton, he has to be signed with a team to serve his suspension. He can't just sit out six weeks and sign with any team and just play.

im not so sure about that.

i think if he goes unsigned through week 6 he can be picked up snd start playing....but i personally dont think that is very likely

Here are the rules for the NFL - you can't smoke marijuana. Same rules he had in college

Hill did not give a shit about these rules for 5 years, resulting in 4 suspensions and not being drafted - he still does not give a shit

Whether 2 states say it is legal to smoke or not, the union that he is a member of, collectively bargained for this. It is against the rules of your employer. No matter how trivial you think it is, it is against the rules. 3 suspension in 3 years in the NFL is a trend

Yes he is a talented player, but the odds are in great favor that come next year, he would be banned for at least 1 year for another failed test

We'll shoot you up with Toradol to keep you on the field and give you whatever scrips to addictive pain killers you need but if you lite up to chill out after a physical game, youre out. I get that Hill is a 3 time loser and had to go but the league's hypocrisy is well, to be expected

It's not YOUR uber talented employee who lied to YOU, 3 times! It's not YOUR employees who are WATCHING closely to see who gets away with what, to see what stand YOU take. To see WHO gets special treatment..

So it's easy as a fan to say it was a stupid decision because you aren't affected in ANY WAY other than, well, as a fan. It was a GREAT decision organizationally with 53 players who DEPENDED on this terrific talent to play alongside them for an entire season. I don't care if he was diligent in the "office" or "beloved," in sum he was an irresponsible and unreliable employee..

You don't run a business/organization by letting a player run amok of the rules as stupid as they might be..Unless of course you're a fan with no vested monetary interest.

Great, great player. One of the most disappointing things I can remember as a fan.

chastise the NFL I would not expect it from you.
I think Will Hill is a great talent as we all do. I wish he could have been kept. But I understand Hill had to go. What good is he too a team when he willfully only plays half a year because he self medicates. Don't compare this to the suit over teams abusing players by overmedicating - which I think is just another way to wrangle a retirement package from the league and that is a different thread.
If the league suspends people for taking legally prescribed medicines (adderall for example) then why shouldn't they suspend people for the illegal ones as per the CBA. I'm more PO'ed at Hill for failing a test he knew he had to take. Nate Behre was probably taken directly because of Hill. Maybe they couldn't draft a TE because they knew Hill was going to be suspended and needed his replacement.

just cut a future hall of fame safety. Seriously? He is unreliable. He was given parameters by which to conduct himself and he could not comply. He was given all of the support in the world to battle his demons and still put himself in a bad spot - fully knowing the consequences. THREE failed tests after getting kicked off his college team - Florida no less. No other team wanted him and the Giants gave him an opportunity that he flushed down the toilet.

And spare me on how much he "saved" the Giants secondary last year. Last I checked, they were 7-9. That does not sound like a "saved" team to me.

just can't straighten out. We took the same risk with Plaxico. The guy was a malcontent and a trouble-maker with the Steelers, and we luckily got a window from him where he didn't do anything devastatingly stupid.

Then he did. Some guys always do. Just a matter of time.

of poor behavior and, lacking signs of redemption, it's unreasonable to believe it would stop.

Terrible loss but what else could the Giants do?

It's called Progressive Discipline.

Anyone who has run an organization or managed people knows that there have to be rules and consequences for breaking the rules.

When an employee violates one of the rules you sit them down, explain the violation and tell them the consequences if they break the rule again.

The Giants likely did the same thing with Hill, letting him know at "strike two" that if he violated the substance abuse policy again he would be gone. They probably even asked him if he understood the consequences for another violation.

So what else could they do when Hill broke the rules for a third time?

Should they have said that they were only kidding when they told him he would be cut after strike three?

Should they have said that they'd let him slide one more time, but if he did it again they would actually follow through on their promise to cut him?

What message would that have sent to Will Hill and to his teammates?

You can't run a team like that.

Will Hill knew the rules and the repercussions for breaking the substance abuse policy a third time.

The Giants didn't cut him. Will Hill cut himself.

because he got three strikes etc. And, I understand that you can't smoke weed in the NFL, no matter how trivial some may think the infraction is. With that said, all of his teammates seem to think he is a good guy, and it hurts to cut him. I really do think he is trying, but he just fell short. And this cut was not because he is a bad guy, but simply because he continued to break team rules. Another team is going to be very fortunate that we were forced to take a principled decision.

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...“The Giants just told me that they had my back, they had my support, but another slip-up and that’s that,” Hill told The Star-Ledger...

"...Another slip-up and that's that..."

'Nuff said..

Counting this year's suspension, Will Hill will have missed 14 games in three years. And the next time he gets suspended, he's out for a full season.

It's the equivalent of a guy who is very productive but constantly injured. At some point the team has to go with somebody who has a better chance of giving you 16 full games.