Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

BBI: New York Giants New Passing Game A Work in Progress

Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/13/2014 3:28 pm
by sweet old me.
New York Giants New Passing Game A Work in Progress - ( New Window )
Doh! Should be John Kuhn  
David in LA : 6/13/2014 3:31 pm : link
Quote:
Hillis might serve in a similar capacity to Markus Kuhn in Green Bay
thanks  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/13/2014 3:39 pm : link
for catching that!
From some of the players' comments  
Blackbeard : 6/13/2014 3:47 pm : link
it sounds like McAdoo is the author of

"OFFENSIVE FOOTBALL for DUMMIES".
Eli Manning  
area junc : 6/13/2014 3:50 pm : link
really interested to see how Easy e plays in this scheme. he may've already been playing in his best scheme in a traditional 5- and 7-step pocket passing scheme

wco prioritizes mobility and accuracy (continuously hitting guys in stride) over size and arm strength.
area junc  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/13/2014 3:53 pm : link
Yup...could be a problem.

But the good news is that I'm dying to see Beckham, Jernigan, and Holliday in space.
also  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/13/2014 3:53 pm : link
Rashad Jennings is a really, really good pass receiver. As is Kuhn. David Wilson in space should be deadly too.
its worth  
area junc : 6/13/2014 3:58 pm : link
noting that kerry collins played some good ball in a WCO and eli is twice the athlete kerry was
Hope Eli  
ChicagoMarty : 6/13/2014 3:58 pm : link
is working on his footwork...
jennings  
area junc : 6/13/2014 3:59 pm : link
is a stud
I get a bit of mixed message though  
SwirlingEddie : 6/13/2014 4:12 pm : link
When the offense is described as being focused on throws to A) "Playmakers" (i.e. YAC guys like Cruz, Beckham, or Wilson), and also B) TEs and backs like Fells, Robinson or Hillis. One seems a big play focus and the other a ball control focus. Sure we can do some of both, but which is the primary style and intent of this offense?
Plan B  
PEEJ : 6/13/2014 4:23 pm : link
is probably having a check-down available
SwirlingEddie  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/13/2014 4:52 pm : link
Remains to be seen. If we play to our strengths, I would say get more WRs on the field.

I could see a lot of one-back offense.
I'm waiting to see if Eli can get under Center with 15 seconds  
Marty in Albany : 6/13/2014 4:54 pm : link
or more, to call the play.

I want Eli to call "Omaha" the way brother Peyton does--as a fake to draw the defense off sides, not as a signal to snap the ball on the next sound.
I personally  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/13/2014 5:00 pm : link
think there are two guys on this team who many have discounted as offensive role players who fit this offense well: Peyton Hillis and Trindon Holliday.
Nice job Eric  
The Natural : 6/13/2014 5:46 pm : link
better than the beat writers.
I think Eli is every bit the quarterback that Aaron Rogers is  
gidiefor : 6/13/2014 6:15 pm : link
so it's hard not to get excited about this - and he has shown success in a rhythm system in the no huddle offense. He also has way more skill players to work with on this offense than Rogers has ever had - Rogers never had any RBs that scared anyone and Eli potentially has three skilled RBs in Wilson, Jennings and Hillis - this is the type of offense that could make Wilson a scary good weapon

If you think about it - being able to chose combinations from Wilson/Jennings, Hillis, Cruz/Holliday/Jernigan, Beckham, and Randle to throw out there at the same time ought to give any defense fits, and may be the deepest and best spread of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 punches in the NFL
I hope they still sprinkle in a few Gilbride concepts  
SHO'NUFF : 6/13/2014 7:06 pm : link
and go deep...as frustrating as that offense was, it was exciting.
I fully expect the Offense to be ready by week 1  
ZogZerg : 6/13/2014 7:30 pm : link
They have plenty of time to implement the rest of the O. And, they get an extra pre-season game to prep.

The Eagles did it last year with a brand new coaching staff.

I can see Hillis making and impact, but no so much with Holliday. I think Holliday is too small and will have trouble holding onto the ball.
RE: I hope they still sprinkle in a few Gilbride concepts  
Big_Blue_Wrecking_Crew : 6/13/2014 7:40 pm : link
In comment 11726827 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
and go deep...as frustrating as that offense was, it was exciting.


Eli has a strong deep ball. IT will not be forgotten un this offense.
RE: I think Eli is every bit the quarterback that Aaron Rogers is  
Riggies : 6/13/2014 7:46 pm : link
In comment 11726784 gidiefor said:
Quote:
so it's hard not to get excited about this - and he has shown success in a rhythm system in the no huddle offense. He also has way more skill players to work with on this offense than Rogers has ever had - Rogers never had any RBs that scared anyone and Eli potentially has three skilled RBs in Wilson, Jennings and Hillis - this is the type of offense that could make Wilson a scary good weapon

If you think about it - being able to chose combinations from Wilson/Jennings, Hillis, Cruz/Holliday/Jernigan, Beckham, and Randle to throw out there at the same time ought to give any defense fits, and may be the deepest and best spread of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 punches in the NFL


This is just a mess of a post.

Rodgers is easily a better QB than Eli, the Packers have had great skill talent since the last couple years of Favre, Lacy is a better RB than anyone on the Giants roster right now, and the Giants absolutely do not have the deepest/best offensive skill talent in the NFL right now or in recent years.
Riggies ,  
Blackbeard : 6/13/2014 8:39 pm : link
you are full of --it.
I don't see Hillis  
Doomster : 6/13/2014 10:02 pm : link
making an impact....he is too slow...he had one good game where the other team ignored him....was not impressed with his blocking, either...

But that was a guy that was sitting on a couch, just a few weeks before joining the Giants....he's had an off season to get ready......still think he is too slow.....

Wilson is still a huge question mark....we draft a RB that had how many catches his senior year? Jennings is 29, but has low mileage on him.....hopefully he will be the pass catching RB this team desperately needs....Cox? Not seeing the depth at RB....

So with one RB and no real TE, this offense will have growing pains....not to mention the make shift OL....
I'm expecting  
muhajir : 6/13/2014 10:35 pm : link
The offense to look somewhat similar to the Lions game plan last season but on a consistent basis.
Eli's footwork, mobility  
Fort Mill Mike : 6/13/2014 10:45 pm : link
In 2011, when he was secure with the protection, Eli had his best year mobility-wise. Rolling out, shifting around in the pocket, he was accurate and clutch. Unless I'm not remembering correctly, some of his best throws came when he was on the move.

So as long as he's not running for his life and shell-shocked like last year, he should be fine in this offense.
Doomster  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/13/2014 11:01 pm : link
He's going to surprise you. He's not that slow.

He's a 'tweener but in this offense, it will work. He's got "Kuhn" written all over him.

I seem him as the 3rd down back in this offense. Pass protection and outlet receiver.
Good stuff Eric.  
Victor in CT : 6/14/2014 6:53 am : link
I think it will help cut down on mistakes and that Randle in particular will benefit. But new systems mean growing pains. I would expect it to take some time. And with the limitations on practice time in training camp Sept could be ugly.
I think the new offense will  
section125 : 6/14/2014 7:47 am : link
be great for guys like Randle and Jernigan. Those with physical abilities but just have trouble with the reads on every play. I see Randle as a taller Hakeem Nicks - not quite the power but with more speed.
It will be nice to see the quick slant to Cruz on 3rd and 4 instead of a 15 yder. It will be nice to see a check down with regularity.
I'm just not sure that Eli will ever get the screen pass mastered. He doesn't seem to have that deft soft touch. Maybe with better line play he'll have that fraction off a second more time to lay the ball out there.
I like the running back situation. Jennings, Hillis and Williams will be hard to stop on 3rd and 2. The depth is the best since Ward, Jacobs and Bradshaw were young.
Eric - Agree with you about Hillis  
ZogZerg : 6/14/2014 7:52 am : link
I can see him blocking, catching dump offs, and running up the gut.

If Williams can come back healthy then this is by far the deepest and most diverse RB group we have had in a long time.
Wilson, not williams  
ZogZerg : 6/14/2014 7:57 am : link
..
Big part  
TMS : 6/14/2014 8:27 am : link
of that offense is having a solid middle OL to keep the pocket from being pushed back into the QBs face. We will see how good a job Reese did on that this off season. If he failed it could be a long year for ELI and the team.
RE: I think Eli is every bit the quarterback that Aaron Rogers is  
zxasqw12 : 6/14/2014 8:43 am : link
I don't disagree with this at all.

Think about it: between John Hufnagel and Kevin Gilbride, can it be said that Eli Manning has ever been in a quarterback friendly offensive system?

There's a difference between a productive or successful offensive system (which Gibride's largely was) and a quarterback friendly offensive system that naturally enables a quarterback to use his God-given talents and limits dependency on other offensive players to make the same reads he does.
RE: I think Eli is every bit the quarterback that Aaron Rogers is  
Jimmy Googs : 6/14/2014 9:01 am : link
In comment 11726784 gidiefor said:
Quote:
Rogers never had any RBs that scared anyone and Eli potentially has three skilled RBs in Wilson, Jennings and Hillis - this is the type of offense that could make Wilson a scary good weapon


Need to get real here - none of these three Running Backs scare anybody. And two of them might not even be on the active roster come opening day.

McAdoo is current girl with a curl.....and he one of the keys  
George from PA : 6/14/2014 9:47 am : link
Good signs for the offense: most wr and rb have reliable hands, Eli is a very good rhythm qb....As he has shown in his 2 min successes, the interior of OL has been fortified, seems to be a better fit for Randle.

Bad signs for the offense: LT is a concern, Eli has accuracy and footwork issues, Williams has not caught passes, getting on same page, TE unproven.....quick 3 and outs will be a disaster.
Hey I'm Real  
gidiefor : 6/14/2014 10:33 am : link
and I believes !

and you all (riggies and Googs etal) can kiss ma grits

you gotz nothing
Nicely done  
jbeintherockies : 6/14/2014 12:08 pm : link
Quote:
Nice job Eric
The Natural : 6/13/2014 5:46 pm : link
better than the beat writers.

I second that.

How many Super Bowls has this offense won in Green Bay with the "better" QB and talent?
Maybe you are and maybe you're not. The Offense can be real if  
Jimmy Googs : 6/14/2014 12:10 pm : link
the line can create some running room (just no more negative runs) and not have Eli thrown to the wolves on third down.

With little talent at tight end, Ruben Randle has got to grow into a professional WR. This will take pressure off Cruz and allow Beckham to get some space as well.

Then we can get real...
RE: its worth  
Simms11 : 6/14/2014 12:21 pm : link
In comment 11726507 area junc said:
Quote:
noting that kerry collins played some good ball in a WCO and eli is twice the athlete kerry was


Don't agree with that at all. Kerry had great arm strength and accuracy. They both move the same to me so I donlt see where Eli is the better athlete?!
most of Eli's "bad" plays came in the following 3 areas:  
oipolloi : 6/14/2014 12:24 pm : link
1. Third and long. This is true of most QBs obviously. But on the Giants, the commitment to the running game became a big problem when it wasn't working. Too many series where they ran on first and second down and were faced with third and and 8+ yards. With the WCO, a lot of the passing plays are in effect like running plays where you are looking to pick up 3-4 yards, while hoping for the big run after the catch.

So, the plan is to avoid all those three and outs (2 running plays, followed by a bomb) with a better mix. Pick up 3 yards on first down with a screen and on second down you have options. Short passes to the RB are in effect another way of "running the ball."

2. Short passes. Eli's short passes were jumped a lot, resulting in plays where it looked like he threw it right to the LB. On the surface, this might suggest that the short passing game would be terrible for Eli. But what was happening is that the opponents were playing 8 men in the box to stop the run and were right in position to make a play. Short passing game that McAdoo will install is completely different in that it is horizontally oriented in the box, which forces the LB to move across the field instead of sitting back 8-10 yards and running forward to jump routes.

3. Misreads where Eli and the WR read the defense differently. One thing that Nicks never got credit for was his intelligence. This guy picked up the offense as a rookie. Most WRs are not that smart (think Dez Bryant). This offense is theoretically lees dynamic than Gilbride's but at a practical level, it will work better with the Giants personnel.


Also, getting guys like Holliday and Beckham really add a "danger" element that this offense has been missing. With Holliday especially, if TC can correct his fumbling problems, Giants may have gotten a real bargain. They also have a great mix of bruisers and speedsters at the RB position, which makes it hard for defense to mix and match.
i wouldn't be  
muhajir : 6/14/2014 3:03 pm : link
surprised if Randle makes plenty of mistakes in this new 'easier' offense as well. If your not studious and not a hard worker, anything will be tough. He had that rep coming out of LSU and it's shown since he's been here. He needs to wake up and get focused.
I think Hillis could fit the Kuhn role  
Curtis in VA : 6/14/2014 5:04 pm : link
but the problem is that Hynosky might fit it better and he also serves as a traditional FB which Hillis does not. Saves a roster spot.
Hillis on the field on third down is a huge win for the defense  
chris r : 6/14/2014 5:29 pm : link
he's a mismatch for no one as a receiver.
in the immortal words of Hank Stram  
gtt350 : 6/14/2014 8:56 pm : link
"keep matriculating the ball down the field boys"
Back to the Corner