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Admittedly a negative hypothetical...

DanMetroMan : 6/18/2014 9:00 pm
Eli has a year resembling last year, ignoring cap implications for a second... would 2 straight bad seasons be enough for you to dump Eli? I only ask because my uncle and Grandpa had a "heated" argument with my Grandpa saying he's earned more rope than "only" 2 bad seasons, my uncle saying he'd cut Eli without thinking twice if that happened.
Who is replacing him?  
section125 : 6/18/2014 9:07 pm : link
Are the bad enough to get Jameis Winston?
Eli leaves on his own accord.  
DuqDoug : 6/18/2014 9:07 pm : link
he's earned it. i agree it gets complicated if he (and the giants generally) suck this year. same with coughlin. but they've both done too much for the team to be let go
Ill add something to this:  
natefit : 6/18/2014 9:09 pm : link
If you dont want to dump him which is certainly understandable, do you bring in a hot QB and make Eli compete for what used to be his job? Or is that worse than releasing him?
it's a tough question to ask  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 6/18/2014 9:16 pm : link
but one that probably does need to be asked, just in case.

Eli was HORRENDOUS in 2013. You can blame the OL and the Receivers and the OC, we've made changes in each of those areas to try and help us. But Eli sucked in 2013 INDEPENDENT of the rest of the offense. Even when he had time and receivers open he'd miss them too often. All the INTs can be blamed on different things, but he still threw too many dumb interceptions that were his own fault.

He sucked last year. And if he sucks again in 2014, we will have a gigantic problem on our hands. I don't even want to think about it. My heart is screaming "LOYALTY!" but my brain is screaming "ALL ABOUT THE WINS".

Hopefully Eli bounces back and kills it this year so we don't have to worry about this.
I'd consider releasing him  
pjcas18 : 6/18/2014 9:17 pm : link
strongly.

His cap number is almost 20M next year. The Giants would save almost 18M by cutting him. You cannot pay a player that way who isn't consistently great.

I am of the belief in the NFL the past and emotion cannot be part of your decision-making, it needs to be purely on-field results (short and long-term).

If Eli bounces back then you ride out the next year before extending him.
Really don't want to think about it,  
RDJR : 6/18/2014 9:17 pm : link
but if he's as bad as last season and the team is too I don't see how the Giants stick with him long term. In this scenario I believe TC retires or is show the door too.

The other question is, how bad is bad? If Eli only throws 18-20 ints. and we go 8-8 or 9-7 without making the playoffs is that good enough to keep Eli around long term and TC as head coach?
I use CAPITAL letters  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 6/18/2014 9:18 pm : link
for EFFECT lol
LOL  
pjcas18 : 6/18/2014 9:20 pm : link
only 20 interceptions.

Other than Eli there were only 4 QB's with 20 INT's last year - and Geno Smith, a rookie, was one of them.
There would be folks here defending  
RDJR : 6/18/2014 9:27 pm : link
Eli with only 20 ints.
I agree  
pjcas18 : 6/18/2014 9:29 pm : link
and truthfully I don't get that hung up on stats.

If the Giants make the playoffs next year and Eli doesn't have pro-bowl numbers I'll be fine with it.

It's when his performance contributes to losses that I'd consider a change
DanMetroMan  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/18/2014 9:32 pm : link
I talked about that possible scenario here...
Tom Coughlin and Eli Manning, Act III - ( New Window )
Do people really think Eli, one year removed  
bradshaw44 : 6/18/2014 10:01 pm : link
From a Super Bowl, where he was the team, just forgot how to play? If the OL is superb then I'd say then there is some concern if he performs that bad. But there are too many moving parts to this hypothetical for me to just say one or another.

I would however say that this far along in his career, that if a hot QB falls to us in the draft, a la Aaron Rogers, you take him no matter if Brett favre or Eli manning are your QB.
Eric  
DanMetroMan : 6/18/2014 10:09 pm : link
I didn't see that. Thanks for linking.
Remember all the talk this past offseason about an extension?  
SB : 6/18/2014 10:23 pm : link
All the beats were saying "don't worry about the cap, the Giants will give him a contract extension that will give them more cap room now." Well, why do you think that didn't happen? It's because Eli is coming off a bad 2nd half of 2012 and a horrible 2013. The Giants didn't want to screw their future if Eli continues to look bad.

He's been in the league 10 years now, and he'll be in his mid 30s after this season. This year is clearly a wait and see year. If he returns to form, great. If he doesn't, my guess is that the Giants will want a pay cut for 2015 or contract extension at a much lower number.
last time I looked,  
Doomster : 6/18/2014 10:32 pm : link
he was signed through 2015......his cap # is the same for the last 3 years of his contract.....

Any quarterback, can put up good numbers, if he has the time and quality receivers....Things, Eli did not have last year....when you are pressured time after time, like he was, it has an affect on you....

Who says all the problems are corrected? This OL is STILL a huge question mark......after Jennings what do you have? A rookie that didn't catch a pass his senior year? Hillis? Cox? Wilson is a HUGE question mark....

TE? So many Giant fans have their fingers crossed, arthritis is setting in....

Let's face it Cruz, was covered because Nicks decided to take the year off...Who will replace Nicks? Our #1 Hammy? Randle?

This is a new system......it will have growing pains.....playing against your own defense means nothing.....

Eli was not without fault last year, he missed some BIG passes at critical times last year....he developed happy feet because of the OL.....

That HOF game can't come fast enough.....we need some answers....
People who would want Eli gone are people  
armsteadeatslittlekids : 6/18/2014 11:06 pm : link
who probably aren't good at algebra. Coughlin, Eli, the offensive scheme, strong receiver play, strong offensive line play: all constants through two Super Bowls. The latter two fall off a cliff last year and people start talking about replacing Coughlin and Eli. Blows my fucking mind.

If Eli is subpar next year, it will be because Reese has failed him again. If our line is average and a second receiver emerges, the Eli of old returns.
hypothetical might become reality  
SHO'NUFF : 6/19/2014 1:56 am : link
I'm not so convinced that our O-line is up to where it needs to be...will it be better? I'm sure...because it can't get worse. The new quick-release scheme should help...but it depends on the play of a few individuals, most importantly, Will Beatty.
I think he has a  
Phil in LA : 6/19/2014 2:28 am : link
MONSTER year coming up. WCO's are so much more QB be friendly than what we were playing. This could be sick.
RE: I think he has a  
chris r : 6/19/2014 2:34 am : link
In comment 11734207 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
MONSTER year coming up. WCO's are so much more QB be friendly than what we were playing. This could be sick.


Are you not concerned with Eli's lack of proficiency in the short passing game so far? Is it just lack of practice in Gilbride's system?
If he genuinely sucks in the new system...  
Big Blue Blogger : 6/19/2014 6:47 am : link
... independent of the talent around him, and Reese believes that his skills are permanently diminished, he might get the Webster/Kiwanuka/Diehl/Snee treatment. All of those guys had two rings, but their pay still got slashed. And they would have been cut if they had said no. Eli could find himself in a similar position. Suppose Eli misses a few games with injuries; his iron man act can't continue forever. Suppose Ryan Nassib shows enough to possibly be a viable replacement. With the shift to a more "QB-friendly" system - one that is closer to Nassib's experience than Eli's - a declining QB with $17.5MM in cash comp may not be the team's best bet.

George Young cut Phil Simms. Ernie Accorsi cut Kerry Collins. Someday, Jerry Reese might have to cut Eli Manning (whose acquisition is much more closely linked to Accorsi's legacy than Reese's). Tough cuts are in the job description of an NFL GM. I think an extension is much more likely, but there are multiple scenarios that could lead to 2014 being Eli's last year in blue.
I wonder what the market for him would be like.  
Big Blue Blogger : 6/19/2014 6:54 am : link
I can't see many teams competing to pay him $20MM a year. His situation might be closer to Kurt Warner in 2005 than Peyton Manning in 2012. Warner wound up playing a lot of great ball for Arizona, but he had to prove himself all over after sucking and being hurt the previous three years.
i sure as hell don't ever want see Nassib take a snap  
gtt350 : 6/19/2014 6:57 am : link
in a Giants uniform
Saying that  
Randy in CT : 6/19/2014 7:24 am : link
"Eli sucked last year" and then as an aside adding "Well yeah, the oline was the worst in the NFL, our best WR decided to not play, no TE play to speak of, and we couldn't get a running game going...But yeah it was ELI who was so bad!"

You know, the 2-time Super Bowl winning MVP. Think about that. You think Eli got bad? I don't. The problem(s) was (were) obvious.
SB got this half right IMO.  
BlueLou : 6/19/2014 7:26 am : link
Quote:
If he doesn't, my guess is that the Giants will want a pay cut for 2015 or contract extension at a much lower number.


If Eli doesn't play waaay better than he has the past 1.5 years in 2014, the FO won't want to extend his contract at ANY price. They will want a serious pay CUT for 2015, or they will likely cut him.

But I think he will bounce back.
RE: i sure as hell don't ever want see Nassib take a snap  
Chef : 6/19/2014 8:37 am : link
In comment 11734230 gtt350 said:
Quote:
in a Giants uniform


This shit on BBI has to stop.. The only time we have ever seen Nassib was in pre season, late in the forth quarter, in garbage time, playing with camp fodder, and he handed off 70% of the time.. no one here has seen much of anything of Nassib..
Randy: To say that Eli has been a victim of circumstances...  
Big Blue Blogger : 6/19/2014 8:41 am : link
...is to state the obvious. (I agree that it's probably worth restating from time to time, like any given.)

It's fair to ask, though, whether an expensive, declining Eli could become part of a vicious circle:
1) Eli's contract limits cap resources, creating problems at other positions;
2) Problems at other positions expose Eli to physical and psychological damage;
3) Eli's skills erode, requiring upgrades around him, but... (go to #1).

Cutting him isn't the only way to break the chain, but it is the last resort.
you have to cut him him in that circumstance  
aquidneck : 6/19/2014 8:48 am : link
Or give him another chance at a reduced salary.

Hope we don't have to make that kind of decision.
Other than his rookie year,  
old man : 6/19/2014 10:21 am : link
all of 8 games, Eli has not had to feel the thunder of DLs on him as he has the last 24 games he's played; and '13 as a result of the OL/#1WR/Injury triumvarate. David Carr had a career ruined by the mental impact on a QB of setting world records in getting sacked because the Texans did not build an OL for him.
I have no clue how well the new OL and O scheme will be, though I think the combo of players acquired and the basics of what we have been told get me very excited about what appears to be a player friendly O scheme.
If the OL holds up there part of the new O, and the WRs theirs, and Eli still has problems the 2nd half of the season, allowing for an adjustment period for all 3 parts, then the Giants will need to follow the Patriots path and look QB early in 15 or 16 drafts(unless Nassib grasps this new O well).
And will ask Eli for that extension to save cap.
Cut him; NO.
All that said, I think Eli will do very well in this new O.
I agree100% with Old Man  
SB : 6/19/2014 10:48 am : link
...I just can't see the Giants cutting Eli. But Eli has pretty much been the type of QB that needs talent around him to thrive. And since he counts for 1/7 of the salary cap, it's difficult to get him the talent he needs. So I wonder if after this year, the Giants extend him for less per year regardless of how well he plays?
If Eli has a bad year  
Bill in UT : 6/19/2014 11:02 am : link
the Giants look for a QB in Round 1 next year.
If he needs so much talent around him to thrive, why did his, by far,  
Riggies : 6/19/2014 11:04 am : link
best season come with a terrible OL, terrible run game, TE corps starring the likes of Jake Ballard and Travis Beckum, and generally poor defense?

Frankly, I don't think anyone can say he needs any one thing to thrive or be at his best... he's just been a weirdly inconsistent player regardless of what is or isn't around him.

(Which, for now, is a good thing, because it actually offers up some reasonable hope that he can bounce back from last year, whereas a more... straight forward QB wouldn't and would be much more likely to be toast.)
RE: Randy: To say that Eli has been a victim of circumstances...  
Randy in CT : 6/19/2014 11:08 am : link
In comment 11734318 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
...is to state the obvious. (I agree that it's probably worth restating from time to time, like any given.)

It's fair to ask, though, whether an expensive, declining Eli could become part of a vicious circle:
1) Eli's contract limits cap resources, creating problems at other positions;
2) Problems at other positions expose Eli to physical and psychological damage;
3) Eli's skills erode, requiring upgrades around him, but... (go to #1).

Cutting him isn't the only way to break the chain, but it is the last resort.


Eli in his decline is a conversation worth having. This particular one was based on his "AWFUL, AWFUL season in 2013" and the inference is that he's in decline. So many can see that the circumstances were awful and that when that happens, Eli TENDS to try to make something out of nothing and yeah, some of the plays were on him. But some here SAY that the circumstances were awful then ignore what they just said and talk about Eli's awful year.

View it like any other position...  
WideRight : 6/19/2014 11:19 am : link
Who gives the team the best chance to win?

Reese has been drafting and signing QBs throughout Eli's career. Obviously none have come close to unseatng him. Partly because Eli was in his peak years and partly because the competition wasn't earnest. But it will be going foward.

Plus Eli had surgery. He's at higher risk of injury as he ages, and all streaks end. So the inevitable will arrive, and preparation is the key to success. When the answer to the question above is not someone named Eli, everything else will follow
the premise  
pjcas18 : 6/19/2014 11:25 am : link
was another poor season.

It's hard to not say the OL will be improved (even marginally), the WR situation should be better, the TE position (while not final) can't be worse, and the running game is improved.

the one area you know is unchanged (personnel-wise) is Eli.

If he has another bad year he'll be entering his last year under contract at 35 years old.

Even under poor circumstances surrounding him it's a legitimate discussion to have about do you extend him or not.
ehh  
PaulBlakeTSU : 6/19/2014 11:31 am : link
Eli's performance last year is absolutely irrelevant to me. The OLine was atrocious, the RB situation was a carousel, our WR situation was a mess, and I'm not sure we ever trotted out a TE.

Whether a QB can play well in an impossible situation is of no concern to me. I only care about having the right QB who can win if there is a possibility of being in a winning situation.

If the other offensive positions improve and/or stabilize, and we are losing because of poor play from Eli, then I'll be concerned.
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 6/19/2014 11:41 am : link
Eli would have to be fucking brutal for 2015 to be a decisive year for Eli's time as a Giant, imo. So, I think he theoretically has at least two more years here if he were to be absolutely atrocious, which I doubt will happen.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 6/19/2014 11:41 am : link
And people ignore how shitty Eli was in the back half of 2012.
Well, the hope is that post-Gilbride Eli Manning...  
Big Blue Blogger : 6/19/2014 1:07 pm : link
...follows in the footsteps of post-Reeves John Elway. There are enough parallels to make the precedent meaningful.

And no, I'm not suggesting they bring in Jim Fassel to work with him.
The hypothetical is likely positive as more  
Jimmy Googs : 6/19/2014 1:36 pm : link
signs point to a bounce-back year for Eli.

But relative to your OP, if he has a miserable year and its on him...you cut him loose. And I would imagine a lot of other guys would be cut loose too.

Tough one  
LG in NYC : 6/19/2014 2:10 pm : link
I too think Eli will have a bounce back year - whether the rest of the team is good enough for that to mean anything remains to be seen, but I think we will feel better about Eli after this season.

That said, if he is very bad again then I think at a minimum we need to bring in serious competition and consider that Eli may not be the starter in 2015 or 2016.
Worst case scenario (particularly if the $$ situation demands it), cutting him may be a real consideration.

Which sucks and makes me happy that I am not the team's GM.

But to do nothing and pretend he isn't sucking doesn't seem a good option.
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