I remember when Dayne was drafted by the Giants many years ago. He ran over everyone in college but couldn't do the same in the NFL. Dayne was a power back with not much agility. I'm curious how he would compare to Williams style of running. I don't watch college football, but I'm sure many here have. Are there comparisons to their running style?
but the idea of a big back bore fruit with Bjac.
AW is a physical runner.
Her ran through gaping holes.
Andre Williams > Dayne and is no way no how similar to the back Dayne was.
Agreed. And I think that created problems for him as a pro. At Wisconsin, if the hole didn't open up quickly, Dayne would tend to string the play out knowing that eventually the road graders would create one. With the speed of pro defenses, that doesn't work in the NFL. I'm not sure Dayne ever made the adjustment.
he was a really good college RB. couldn't make his own holes in the NFL, but not many can.
RD's game speed in college was fine, but he just didn't have the burst to consistently get through or off the edge of defensive fronts. He wasn't a physical runner who broke tackles, and he was frequently tackled very easily.
WE had another 1st Round RB, who did exactly the same thing: Butch Woolfolk.
I always said as to both players that if you could add up the yardage they ran to the sideline, each would have led the NFL in rushing yardage.
I agree from what I saw in the post-draft reaction. I didn't closely track college football that year, so all I knew about him was that he was the Heisman winner. But no matter how bad he turned out for us, that whole first round in 2000 pretty much sucked besides a few players, namely Burress and Urlacher (and of course, Shaun Alexander, who we passed due to injury concerns).
2000 NFL Draft - ( New Window )
he was a really good college RB. couldn't make his own holes in the NFL, but not many can.
This and he was a fourth round pick not the 11th pick in the entire draft. Dayne was a huge bust relative to selection.
I think he could have been a better back than he became. But I don't think he wanted it bad enough.
I've watched perhaps 5 videos of Williams. He's a lot less massive than Dayne, he's more agile and a better athlete than Dayne. He's quicker to the POA, has better vision and also better long speed than Dayne.
But one of Dayne's problems was that despite his size, he didn't usually run that tough. Sure, he'd bowl over DB's in the secondary that he outweighed by 50 pounds, but he didn't really like to stick his nose in. And while Williams is being ballyhooed as a great inside power runner, I don't see it. He's effective at taking an angle or sliding when getting tackled and picking up an extra yard or two, but I don't see him exploding into tacklers the way someone like Hillis does for example.
But the good news is when he clears the LOS, he moves, and isn't very easy to bring down for the reasons I mentioned.
-Highly productive college careers
-"Power" backs (whether Dayne was or wasn't, he was seen that way coming out)
-1 dimensional with questions regarding their hands
One back goes 10th overall, another drops to the 4th round. Goes to show how devalued the running back position has become.
Before I get a bunch of "they're different RBs" comments, please try to focus on the perception of Dayne coming out rather than what he was in the NFL.
Shocked at his size how he could not move the pile.
Our OL was not good at all.
Tiki's speed saved me more times than not.
I recall when playing the Niners in the playoffs Dayne just checked in and Collins launched a fastball off Ron's head from less than ten years away. Great example, of a player doing well within his college system than never translated into the NFL. An old story that seems to stay the same over the years.
he was a really good college RB. couldn't make his own holes in the NFL, but not many can.
Heisman winner, and first round pick, who was a bust....
The 2014 draft sucked for RB's....one wasn't picked until the 54th selection, and this guy wasn't taken until the fourth round.....
I mean, someone drafted out of all those RB's may turn out to be a Bradshaw or a Morris, but Williams is still a huge question mark until he gets out there and proves he belongs....as of right now, all the Giants have is Jennings.....
Remember a few other guys like Bullock and Abraham (as a LB)being thrown around, but we were very focused on RB, with Dayne being the popular pick.
That said, I think it was still a possibility that he could have been successful in the NFL. I don't think he was ever going to be an elite RB, but he could have been better than he was. I feel like the same can be said of a lot of guys from the mid-90s to 2000 drafts for the Giants. Reeves ruined Hampton, who could have been great. I think Dave Brown actually could have been a decent QB, but also was ruined by Reeves.
Unfortunately for him, those similarities were of the appearance variety and not talent.
Its ok. We still ended up with the best RB in the history of the franchise. It just wasn't Dayne or Alexander.
Eddie Lacy 5'11" 231 lbs. 4.64 in the 40, 1.65 in 10 yds. and 7.33 in the 3 cone.
Carlos Hyde 6'0" 230 lbs. 4.61 in the 40, 1.69 in 10 yds. and 9'6" broad jump.
Andre Williams 5'11" 230 lbs. 4.50 in 40 yds. 1.58 in 10 yds. 10'9" broad jump 7.27 in 3-cone.
Other RBs in the NFC East are:
Lesean McCoy 5'11" 204 lbs. 4.50 in 40 yds. 1.52 in 10 yds. 8'11" in broad jump and 6.82 in the 3-cone
Alfred Morris 5'10" 219 lbs. 4.61 in 40 yds. 1.60 in 10 yds. 9'9" in broad jump and 7.01 in 3-cone.
DeMarco Murray 6'0" 213 lbs. 4.37 in 40 yds. 1.52 in 10 yds. 10'10" in the broad jump 7.28 in 3-cone.
So, eliminating DeMarco Murray, who's off the charts except for the 3-cone, Andre Williams is as fast as McCoy in the 40 and faster than the other backs at the same distance; McCoy is faster in 10 yds. than Williams but is 25 lbs. lighter weight but otherwise Williams is faster than the others; Williams about the same in the broad jump as McCoy but better than the others; Williams is only better than Eddie Lacy in the 3-come.
So, IMO what do the measureables tell us about Williams;
At 230 lbs. he's very fast in the 40- as fast as McCoy and faster than Lacy, Hyde and Morris. So, very good deep speed.
Faster than Lacy, Hyde and Morris in 10 yds. So, he's quicker off the snap of the ball and to the LOS than they are, IMO.
Much better than Lacy, Morris and McCoy in the broad jump. IMO that should mean more explosive, that is, quicker out of his cuts than they are.
Only better than Lacy in the 3-cone. IMO that should indicate that Williams is not as shifty or agile as the others.
In summary, based on the measureables, a TERRIFIC 4th Round pick. He has better measureables than Lacy or Morris- let's hope he turns out to be as good a football player with the same production and better than Hyde, drafted this year in the 2d Round.
Remember, though, that despite all that he had a decent rookie season. From his second year on he spiraled downward.
I think this Giants staff is smarter than that and will not try to put Williams into a role he's not suited for. Though I have to say they didn't do a great job developing Mathias Kiwanuka in that respect. I think they set him back by making him a linebacker.
He had some skill, never really improved at the NFL level and wasn't a powerback in college, but he did run through contact in college and was highly regarded when drafted.
His youtube college highlights show some physical runs as well. See page 4 and 6 of his bio about his physical college play, yards after contact, etc... Dayne was a college superstar who busted in the NFL. Not a lucky and soft college player.
Ron Dayne Bio - ( New Window )
He had value, but necessarily what you expect from a traditional Heisman winner. He was not being touted as a "fatty with happy feet" as you put it. But, scouting reports were consistent in pointing out his mammoth OL that created big holes. To accomplish what he did, there still had to be a lot of talent, and talent worthy of an NFL draft pick.
They seldom opened even reasonable holes for him to run through. The Oline seldom was able to push the defense off the line of scrimmage. With no holes and no offensive push, Dayne was often caught in the backfield for a loss. He was not going to run sweeps with any success and the Giants didn't have the personnel for sweeps anyway.
I don't think that Alexander would have played much better if we had drafted him unless Alexander had better foot speed and could cut back.
BTW while Williams had the most running yardage last year, Dayne had the most running yardage in college football history.
Doomster : 1:07 pm : link : reply
comparing Williams to Dayne is apples and oranges....
Heisman winner, and first round pick, who was a bust....
The 2014 draft sucked for RB's....one wasn't picked until the 54th selection, and this guy wasn't taken until the fourth round.....
I mean, someone drafted out of all those RB's may turn out to be a Bradshaw or a Morris, but Williams is still a huge question mark until he gets out there and proves he belongs....as of right now, all the Giants have is Jennings.....
Dayne did have some success in both Denver and Houston when he received consistent carries. Although, in both instances they came as the result of an injury to the starter.
He had value, but necessarily what you expect from a traditional Heisman winner. He was not being touted as a "fatty with happy feet" as you put it. But, scouting reports were consistent in pointing out his mammoth OL that created big holes. To accomplish what he did, there still had to be a lot of talent, and talent worthy of an NFL draft pick.
I'm not saying Dayne was seen as can't miss or was a good NFL talent. But he did have talent, did have some sporadic sucess and stayed in the league a while. I just hate the revisionist history about Dayne. I remember on here when Dwayne Jarret and Brian Robiskie were highly touted can't miss guys and Steve Smith was sure to bust. And I can remember myself touting Adam Terry as a 10 year starter at Left Tackle and Matt Jones as an unstoppable WR. I really doubt there was a lot of fans, scouts, and analysts that viewed Dayne as poorly as many of the fans on this thread say they did at the time (and still do).
That doesn't change how Dayne was used, which was more short yardage/power situations. I never thought he was going to be an elite back in the NFL. But, I do think he had enough talent to be a decent back and he showed flashes of that once he left here.
Williams is a very good back and a solid value in the 4th round. I think he he was somewhat under the radar at BC and will be the starter getting the bulk of the carries part way into the season.
Davis showed he could play at a high level, but he was mostly the product of one of the Denver zone blocking system and outstanding members of the O-line . In the mean-time Ron Dayne labored behind Mouse McNally's pretenders (save for Pro Bowler Ron Stone, none were worthy to wear the uniform).
Same can be said of Alexander. He sure looked ALL-WORLD for a while didn't he ?
Then, over-night he looked PATHETIC; he didn't have Pro Bowl - ALL PROS Steve Hutchinson, Walter Jones and Mack Strong blocking for him.
Spotting the diamond buried on his depth chart, and starting him as a rookie, was one of Mike Shanahan's best moves. While it's true that some mediocre running backs have thrived in that system (even Dayne redeemed himself somewhat in Denver and Houston), nobody has come close to the four-year run Davis put together before tearing up his knee. By 1997, defensive coordinators were scheming to stop Davis, not Elway.
You are on firmer ground about Shaun Alexander. The loss of Hutchinson and (later) Strong brought him down to earth. Tiki Barber was probably more deserving of the 2005 MVP. By most measures, though, Alexander was in a different class than Ron Dayne, and his decline had as much to do with injuries as the depletion of Seattle's blocking. Doesn't mean the Giants should have drafted him - just that he wasn't entirely the product of the guys in front of him.
I think he just had lousy muscle tone. Some people with large muscles don't have good muscle density and tone, and I think he was one of them. He looked a whole lot stronger than he actually was, so when he hit the line, he just got pushed back.
I don't know if the lack of muscle tone was from laziness in the weight room, but as I said, there was one year where he seemed to come in in shape, and it didn't seem to matter much.
And yes, in college he ran through holes that were a lot wider than he was. Frequently by the time he hit contact, he had a head of steam that helped him use his weight, that offset the lack of real strength. And, of course, that also helped offset the fact that he had as much ability to cut as an old, rusty butter knife.
IMO, Dayne was sort of laid back. He was a bad choice made by Fassel when he determined he had to draft Dayne after watching him in the hula-bowl.