Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Giants 2014 Positional Breakdown: Running Backs

Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/2/2014 9:05 am
FYI.
Giants 2014 Positional Breakdown: Running Backs - ( New Window )
Great job guys! I really enjoyed this!  
Victor in CT : 7/2/2014 9:19 am : link
I like Conner better than Hynoski too. I am really excited about Williams. Just seems like a no bullshit back that will get the tough yards when needed and punish defenders.
Thanks Victor  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/2/2014 9:39 am : link
I like the added "physical" nature of Jennings, Hillis, and Williams.

I think a lot of people are automatically writing off Wilson, but man, the guy is lightening in a bottle. Get him in open space...
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/2/2014 9:39 am : link
lightning
RE: Thanks Victor  
Victor in CT : 7/2/2014 9:44 am : link
In comment 11752362 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I like the added "physical" nature of Jennings, Hillis, and Williams.

I think a lot of people are automatically writing off Wilson, but man, the guy is lightening in a bottle. Get him in open space...


Yes, Wilson is a unique talent. But I don't see him as an every down player. I think he should be the KO returner and a 10-12 play package weapon.
Remind me why the leading rusher in college  
lono801 : 7/2/2014 10:49 am : link
Drops to the Fourth Round...?

Lack of being involved in the passing game....Running backs grow on trees and can a gem can't be found in later rounds...

And?

A gem can be found in the later rounds  
lono801 : 7/2/2014 10:50 am : link
Damn iPad
2013 review.. we sucked  
Blue Blood : 7/2/2014 10:59 am : link
2014 preview. hopefully less suckage.
RE: Remind me why the leading rusher in college  
Blue Blood : 7/2/2014 11:02 am : link
In comment 11752557 lono801 said:
Quote:
Drops to the Fourth Round...?

Lack of being involved in the passing game....Running backs grow on trees and can a gem can't be found in later rounds...

And?


His name isnt Adrian Peterson?

He isnt an elite running back.. He doesnt have great speed. He doesnt have great hands.. and considering the fact that running backs in the league are very replaceable unless your name IS Adrian Peterson.. and the fact that running backs are on average being taken almost a full round later than is years past speaks to being taken in round four..
Typo:  
Dodge : 7/2/2014 11:31 am : link
Quote:
noski-Conner competition at fullback. Wilson is scheduled to undergo another exam on his next the day camp starts – July 21st – to determine if he can be cleared for football contact. If cleared,


--

Next, I assume, should be neck.
Great write up  
Matt M. : 7/2/2014 11:44 am : link
I think our backfield is the most improved area on the team. I really liked the Jennings signing and also expect him to blossom here. I just hope I am not being overly swayed by the game he had against us last year.

I also agree about FB. I love Hynoski. But, Connor is the better all around player. With better RBs this year, I think his impact could really be bigger.

Now for the questions.

Eric - At this stage, you really think Wilson can still be a 1200 yard back? First, he isn't even cleared for contact. Second, is he even likely to get enough carries?

Andre Williams - Is he good enough to be a #1 back on the NFL level? I love his size and physical style. But, it is rare for this type of player to last a long time as a #1 in this mold because of the size, speed, and strength of NFL defenses, particularly the front 7. I obviously don't expect him to start now, but is it realistic to think he will be the #1 back down the road?

Will we run more of a RB by committee with this group and scheme? This group has the potential to really wear down defenses if we rotate guys and keep them fresh. If he's healthy, I see Wilson potentially having his biggest impact in the KR game and in the 2nd half of games after defenses have been battered by Jennings and Williams.

I think the real x factor here could actually be Hillis. I don't think he is talented enough to be the #1 or #2 RB on a contending team. But, I agree with the idea of him as a 3rd down back. He made a lot of nice plays both pass protecting and slipping out of the backfield last year. I like having him around for a similar role and as insurance.
Matt M  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/2/2014 11:55 am : link
I didn't write that Wilson could be a 1,200 yard back, that was Connor's prediction within my article. My prediction is above that.
and  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/2/2014 11:56 am : link
yes, I think Williams can be a #1 back. But not this year.

Giants have been a running back by committee team since Fassel.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/2/2014 11:57 am : link
excluding those few monster years by Tiki.
Jennings was my first choice  
PEEJ : 7/2/2014 11:58 am : link
as a FA RB. He can run and he can catch. He'll be the "bell cow" and one of Eli's favorite targets.
If Wilson....  
Wonderphil11 : 7/2/2014 12:20 pm : link
can learn how to be a more patient runner, he could really be special...just has to stop thinking he can out juke everyone and sprint to daylight. Obviously he needs to fix the fumbling issues, as well.
PEEJ  
Matt M. : 7/2/2014 12:23 pm : link
Jennings was my only choice as a FA RB.
Eric: Terrific write-up and very informative.  
Bobby Epps : 7/2/2014 12:39 pm : link
Agree completely with your analysis of the RBs. If Wilson is not cleared to play, then I guess Cox makes the final roster.

As to the FB position, I also agree about keeping Conner vs. Hynoski, IF we keep a FB.

What I'm wondering about concerning the FB position is that we seem to be headed to some version of the West Coast Offense. I know that TC wants to run the ball and McAdoo is in agreement but IMO the FB is not an integral part of the WCO. The WRs and TEs are integral to the WCO. On the other hand maybe TC/McAdoo want some version of a power WCO.

It will be interesting to see in Training Camp whether the FB position is important in TC/McAdoo's offense.
RE: Eric: Terrific write-up and very informative.  
OC : 7/2/2014 1:05 pm : link
In comment 11752844 Bobby Epps said:
Quote:
Agree completely with your analysis of the RBs. If Wilson is not cleared to play, then I guess Cox makes the final roster.

As to the FB position, I also agree about keeping Conner vs. Hynoski, IF we keep a FB.

What I'm wondering about concerning the FB position is that we seem to be headed to some version of the West Coast Offense. I know that TC wants to run the ball and McAdoo is in agreement but IMO the FB is not an integral part of the WCO. The WRs and TEs are integral to the WCO. On the other hand maybe TC/McAdoo want some version of a power WCO.

It will be interesting to see in Training Camp whether the FB position is important in TC/McAdoo's offense.


Imo, we can save a roster spot & have Hillis perform any FB related duties. Play kind of a Bear Pascoe role.
Problem  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/2/2014 1:41 pm : link
I'm having is figuring out roster numbers.

I think the Giants would prefer to keep four tight ends, but that's going to be tough. So I wonder if a John Conner and/or Hillis can serve in some of those move-TE type roles too.

Right now, roster wise in terms of numbers, I'm thinking:

QB: 2
RB: 4
FB: 1
WR: 6
TE: 3 (trying to get to 4 but not sure how)
OL: 9
DL: 9
LB: 6
DB: 11
K: 2
Eric: If I may, I'd point out that:  
Bobby Epps : 7/2/2014 1:57 pm : link
You have no LS on the final roster.

Also, I have no problem with your 6 WR number, but who are they?

Beckham, Cruz and Randle are locks. Everyone points to Jernigan's last few games but IMO those games were against poor defenses/defenses that threw in the towel.

OK, supposing Jernigan makes the 4th WR, then who are the other two? I'm having trouble getting to the 5th WR.
RE: and  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/2/2014 2:19 pm : link
In comment 11752747 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
yes, I think Williams can be a #1 back. But not this year.

Giants have been a running back by committee team since Fassel.


I generally agree with this completely, but I wonder how wise it is for a player like Williams. Based on his play in college, he's the type of RB who benefits greatly from a lot of carries and gets better as the game goes on. When you insist on a RB by committee situation, it makes that difficult.
Bobby  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/2/2014 2:43 pm : link
Crap..you're right, I forgot about DeOssie...that makes it worse.

WR preview coming out shortly...see schedule.
Why would the Giants want to keep  
PEEJ : 7/2/2014 3:51 pm : link
four mediocre TEs ?
Good write-up.  
Klaatu : 7/2/2014 3:57 pm : link
Before Jennings was signed, I was in the Toby Gearhart camp. Frankly, I didn't think the Giants would be able to sign Jennings. Everything I'd heard coming out of Oakland was that the Raiders were going to part ways with McFadden and re-sign Jennings, in fact it was reported during the Combine that they already had a deal in place. So much for reporting. Although I doubt he approaches Tiki Barber's "60% of the offense" mark, I can certainly see Jennings becoming a focal point of the offense, both as a runner and a receiver.

I'm also hoping that David Wilson recovers fully, because the idea of getting him the ball in the open field is pretty exciting.
Eric....  
Hades07 : 7/2/2014 4:06 pm : link
...TE is the least talented position on the roster right now. Why would you try to force an extra body there? Wouldn't you better served keeping a better player at another position. If Hyno, Conner and Hillis can fill some of the TE roles in this offense, I'd keep all three and only 2 TEs.

I just don't think you make the overall roster better by keeping 4 of Robinson, Donell, Davis, Fells and Grimble. They are all marginal NFL players at this point.
I'm  
AcidTest : 7/2/2014 4:45 pm : link
not sure Cox gets cut in favor of Hillis. Also don't know about Connor vs. Hynoksi. Both battles are close. I guess that's part of the purpose of camp. Can't wait. Excellent write ups. Thanks.
I agree with the final back depth chart  
mrvax : 7/2/2014 4:53 pm : link
and also read once that Andre Williams caught the ball very well at his pro day. I can't find the quote though to link to.

Had Wilson not had neck issues, Andre Williams wouldn't not have been a Giants pick. If Wilson is cleared, we should have a formidable bunch of backs here.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/2/2014 6:04 pm : link
Hades07...agree on talent, but it's an numbers/depth issue if they are going to use multiple TEs as much as they did in OTAs. In other words, if one guy gets hurt, they run into a problem. Still, I could see them carrying three.

mrvax. He did at his Pro Day but Connor said he's been body catching at OTAs.
As far as the roster  
BillT : 7/2/2014 6:17 pm : link
There isn't the talent for 4 TEs. Robinson, Donnell and whoever. 11 DBs might be one too many but there are 6 CBs that have the talent to stick so that's an issue if you're keeping 4 RBs plus a FB. 2 QBs, 5 RB/FBs, 3 TEs, 9 OLs, 6 WRs. 9 DL, 6 LB, 10 DBs, 3 ST. The only room for adding or subtracting is at DB or RB. I don't think they'll go with less than 6 WR as they normally activate 5 and won't want to change that for an injury.
BillT  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/2/2014 8:54 pm : link
Again, agree with you about the talent.

But if McAdoo uses some 3-TE packages, he'll need to have 4 TEs on the roster.

I hope he doesn't go that way because the more TEs on the field, the happier the opposing defense probably would be when facing the Giants.

But in the OTAs, there were a lot of multiple TE formations.
Wilson  
Aaron in MA : 7/2/2014 8:59 pm : link
He is so talented, I cant help but think he will have an impact if hes healthy.

I still see him as the desired #1 back.
Aaron  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/2/2014 9:01 pm : link
I'd be shocked if Jennings wasn't the #1 back in 2014.
Any chance Wilson could be converted to a WR  
mamamia : 7/2/2014 9:41 pm : link
I only say this because of his neck issues
3 Tight End Packages?  
Jimmy Googs : 7/2/2014 10:05 pm : link
I am no McAdoo, but maybe this was just an experiment to some degree during OTAs. It seems kind of silly to force an offensive system that does not fit the talent (or lack thereof) at certain positions.

Keeping 4 TEs is a mistake with our crop of guys. They should keep 3, and if one gets injured the guy they can pick up off the street is not very far behind our #1 guy in talent anyway.
Jimmy  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/2/2014 10:27 pm : link
We'll have to see. Hopefully we have an OC who adjusts to the team's strengths...

But in a quick search of even Connor's reports...

"Nearly every time a tight end talks, he speaks about how much the position moves around compared to last year. They aren’t lying. There was one particular formation in which the Giants came out with three tight ends: Kellen Davis in the slot, Larry Donnell in the traditional position and Daniel Fells split out wide right."
New York Giants Mini-Camp Practice – Day 1: Quick Hits and Tidbits - ( New Window )
mamamia  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/2/2014 10:27 pm : link
No.
Sounds like a formation where  
Jimmy Googs : 7/2/2014 10:30 pm : link
Weatherford should be warming up...
I like Eric's idea of using . . . .  
TC : 7/2/2014 11:15 pm : link
either Connor or Hillis as a move TE. But if much blocking needs to be done, it will have to be Connor. Despite a lack of height, I think Connor could handle this roll.
Andre Williams' Pro Day.  
Klaatu : 7/2/2014 11:21 pm : link
Quote:
Williams caught 18 passes from Rettig on Tuesday morning in a final rehearsal, practicing each of the routes he’d be expected to perform in front of the scouts the next day: flat, swing, angle, out, in-breaking, wheel and corner. He dropped only one. “Do another one!” Rettig called out, and Williams snatched it easily.


Quote:
He changed into different cleats, and receivers’ gloves so new they squeaked, for position drills. Rettig threw to him eight times; Williams dropped one pass, a flat route, but made the same catch on a second try. The act of catching came more naturally than two weeks earlier, showcased on a 40-yard corner route, on which he stuck the ball cleanly on his hands. “Better,” one scout said afterward. Said another scout, “He did well catching. That’s not going to hinder anything.”

MMQB.SI.Com. - ( New Window )
RE: Aaron  
Aaron in MA : 7/2/2014 11:38 pm : link
In comment 11753674 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I'd be shocked if Jennings wasn't the #1 back in 2014.


I agree, but I want Wilson to beat him out
Aaron in MA  
CT Charlie : 7/2/2014 11:39 pm : link
I'd love to see Wilson as our featured back too, but I don't think he'll block well enough to convince TC to start him.
I'm not  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/3/2014 12:04 am : link
giving up on Wilson, but I honestly think he is better suited to a change-of-pace back who gets 10-15 touches per game (runs and passes).

The interesting thing that Craig Johnson said was about his hands. Wilson is dynamite in open space - just like Trindon Holliday. I expect McAdoo to design special plays for both. (With Holliday getting 2-3 touches per game other than returns).
Eric the Giants  
OldPolack : 7/3/2014 6:17 am : link
should use Wilson as a Dave Meggett clone.
don't think wilson equals megget  
aquidneck : 7/3/2014 7:13 am : link
Megget was better in space than Wilson has shown and Wilson may have good hands, but he's got a ways to go to learn the pro passing game like Megget. Wilson also has to prove he's not a tumbler.

Wilson has pure speed on his side and may end up a better between the tackles runner than Megget. Wilson also is a better KO returner out of the box.

Megget's elusiveness made him the better punt returner and his natural savvy in the passing game (including his ability as a blocker) will be difficult for Wilson to duplicate regardless of how good his hands are.
tumbler =  
aquidneck : 7/3/2014 7:15 am : link
Fumbler. Auto correct. Thanks.
McAdoo's system  
gersh : 7/3/2014 7:26 am : link
Is based on quick throws with multiple targets
Right now we have 4 good WRs (one a rookie)
1 good RB we can count on and we will have
a FB who can can catch
But it's a long season.

We need another good WR or 2 to be able to consistently go 4 WRs, we need 2 of the TEs to show they can be reliable receivers and we really need Wilson to play - that would be huge.
Any of the other RBs who can add a receiving threat would be very helpful as well
The comment of get the "guy in space and he can do some damage"  
Jimmy Googs : 7/3/2014 8:06 am : link
always makes me chuckle to some degree when we talk about the Giants because seldom has space ever been created by our Offensive players/schemes.

The Defense seldom gives you space so you must create it with an overload, misdirection, or even an agile QB with good pump fakes and a play action atmosphere. None of the above has typically fit our QB and other players skills before.

Maybe McAdoo can do more with current guys...
RE: ...  
snumber6 : 7/3/2014 10:02 am : link
In comment 11752363 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
lightning


oh ok and I thought he was losing weight on a liquid diet ...
:-)

Great write-up  
jLefty : 7/4/2014 12:44 pm : link
To see others as hopeful and positive regarding David Wilson is heartening. If he's cleared to play, it would be really exciting. Last year when he got the ball there was a defensive player on him before he could take a step. Posters got down on him. Said he tried to go wide instead of going to the hole.I believe he's going to really perform. In fact all the backs appear exciting including Hillis who made yardage that wasn't there last year.
The ironic thing is  
djm : 7/4/2014 1:33 pm : link
The league's best NFL Rbs were all drafted in the premium rounds (1-3) with only a few exceptions. For every Arian and foster you can rattle off dozens or guys that were drafted in the early rounds. Peterson, Charles, lynch, spiller, Chris Johnson, gore, McCoy... just to name a few.

We are just caught in a cycle. The rb position has been devalued due to the NFL rules catering towards the passing game. It's still a premium position and the facts show that it's harder to find late round talent for any position, including rb. You want a stud you're usually gonna have to draft him early. There are exceptions for every position of course. But the early rounds are where the studs are found more often than not.

The Giants may have picked the right draft to try and steal a rb in round 4 because I would bet that teams wise up sooner than later. This year's draft was ridiculous -- WR top heavy....
Back to the Corner