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Do the Giants have the best D in the NFC East?

Orange is the New Jack : 7/6/2014 12:38 am
I know we lost Will hill and our defensive line isn't what it used to be but I can say it's hard to say that there is a better defense in the NFC East.

I haven't been really keeping up with the eagles, skins, and cowboys, so people that do, are we looking at having the best D in the division? I know we beefed up our secondary and once AGAIN our linebacker "core" is blah and with Beason hurt I can only imagine the "progress" were going to make on the defensive side of the ball. what is this the 5th Straight year of Spencer Williams? Right.

and hopefully Jason Pierre Paul has gotten the memo that it is certainly "not fuck around time anymore"

I apologize in advance if this thread is of any inconvenience to the BBI grateful. I'm just bored and are watching Game of Thrones. What the hell are they talking about on this show?
Yeah, I'm sure JPP was just fuckin' around for the past two years.  
Klaatu : 7/6/2014 12:44 am : link
I'm sure the back surgery and the shoulder injury had nothing to do with his poor performance...it was just him fuckin' around.
Klaatu  
Orange is the New Jack : 7/6/2014 12:48 am : link
I'm sorry I know Jerry Reese will consider that if he has the same productive *or lack of* year he did when he signs on the dotted line post 2014, and I'm hoping it's not the lack of year. well, Reese and co. might not even consider if it's a *lack of* year
Key, like always, is the line. And there are a few questions.  
j_rud : 7/6/2014 1:17 am : link
First of all, who is the leader amongst the group? Someone's gotta replace Tuck. This can be a wild card and a spot for improvement as Tuck, for all his talents, left something to be desired in that department. Speaking of Tuck, who takes that spot? Kiwi would seem the likely favorite but Ayers can be a factor and who knows what kind of leap Moore can make in his second season? Who knows what JPP we'll see. I doubt we ever see dominance like his breakout year again but I'm hoping for above average/occasionally elite. Back issues are so touch and go, you just never know.

I'm more worried about DT. The most experienced pair just happen to be the Eagles startimg duo...from half a decade ago. There's no legit experience behind them. Can Hankins step up and replace Joseph? I think it's one of the keys to the D. One of the young guys is going to have to step up and at the very least grab the 3rd DT spot. It would be a boon if one of them (presumably Hankins) could earn a starting role.
j_rud  
Orange is the New Jack : 7/6/2014 1:33 am : link
Great post.
I like our potential on defense  
Milton : 7/6/2014 2:34 am : link
The Defense took some hits with the loss of Tuck, Joseph, Hill, and Mundy, but I think the additions of DRC, Thurmond, Ayers, Brown (from IR), and Demps offset the subtractions. And so it comes down to the health and/or development of the youngsters: JPP, Moore, Prince, and Hankins (not to mention Bromley, Taylor, Behre, and Williams). Of course, in the end the NFL always comes down to health.

As for the original question, the answer is: Yes!
Well, Dallas is the worse on paper....  
George from PA : 7/6/2014 5:37 am : link
they were pretty bad last year and lost their 3 best players.

Washington could have a decent defense....and the Eagles have the personal to be pretty good....both their secondary lack depth.

I have high expectation for the Giants defense....losing Hill and Beason are bad signs
easily with ir without JPP  
grizz299 : 7/6/2014 6:14 am : link
The secondary figures to be the best we've ever had since Patton,Barnes,Lynch, Nolan. Compare it to Wilson, Madison,Ross, Webster not close. This crew of linebackers??... Better than the last crew that had Blackburn Mosley, Williams (in his room year yet).
Tuck has been a marginal contributor, Ayers is an upgrade.
. Joseph was strong, consistent and only good. Hankins will be almost as good against the run and will give an added pass rush. Moore showed that "explosive can't be taught" quickness last year on specials. At the least he should be a fine situational player. No reason to assume that Jenkins doesn't have another year left.
Cromartie, Prince ,Mcbride and the kid from Seattle might be the best in the business, more importantly, they permit Rolle to play his game.
It is reasonable to assume that JPP will be back. If that happens this will be among the best defenses in football and if he doesn't come back this still should be the best in our division.
Personally, I think this is the only team that can play with Seattle and San Fran.
I'm looking forward to seeing  
Gman11 : 7/6/2014 6:36 am : link
Spencer Williams.
If Giants can put together even an average-level  
Jimmy Googs : 7/6/2014 7:10 am : link
pass rush, then I would say they have the best D.

Not sure that will be the case though.
Spencer Williams will be utilized in a hybrid role..  
JCin332 : 7/6/2014 7:21 am : link
...
Who  
DTgiants : 7/6/2014 7:30 am : link
is Spencer Williams?
RE: Spencer Williams will be utilized in a hybrid role..  
That Said : 7/6/2014 7:33 am : link
In comment 11756551 JCin332 said:
Quote:
...


I see what you did there.
Yes  
RetroJint : 7/6/2014 8:46 am : link
Middle unit gives me the most cause for concern. Beason's history suggests he will hurt the foot again. Every remaining linebacker is either a question mark or a known incomplete player.
who knows  
newmike2 : 7/6/2014 9:13 am : link
we should probably wait until someone snaps a football in a meaningful play before judging the off-season.

That said, they have taken the hint that the NFL wants to protect QBs and placed the emphasis on defense in the secondary. If this group makes it into week one without serious injuries, I like their chances against the second tier teams. They have playoff talent IMO but you can probably cobble together an all-pro team with all the guys in the league that get incapacitated before the first snap.
DTgiants  
vince : 7/6/2014 9:14 am : link
Spencer Williams is joining the names of two linebackers. Spencer Paysinger and Jacquin Williams. Who are supposedly interchangeable.

I say supposedly in a tongue in cheek manner.
By the way...  
BMac : 7/6/2014 9:17 am : link
...It's "corps," not "core." This mis-usage has become one of the more common butcheries of the language here.
What exists on paper means nothing  
Blue Blood : 7/6/2014 9:26 am : link
we have to play games. Personally i think the whole.. who is the leader thing is overplayed..

Beason is a leader. Rolle is a leader.. and there might be leaders on the team we dont know a thing about...
You know what.. Im not worried about losing Joseph  
Blue Blood : 7/6/2014 9:28 am : link
The one thing the Giants have done consistently well is replace DT's with draft picks..

Cornelius Griffin replaced by Barry Cofield.. Barry Cofield replaced by Linval Joseph.. Linval Joseph replaced by John Hankins..

I have confidence in that..

It should be Spencer Herzlich as both of them are below mediocre....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 7/6/2014 9:45 am : link
....leave Williams out of that mix.
Paysinger actually  
Simms11 : 7/6/2014 10:14 am : link
played much better last year and it looks like it's finally clicking for him. He's limited a little athletically, but is fairly solid. Overall, with Beason, this group of LBs are average and will hold the fort ok as long as the Dline is doing their job and they do appear poised to do that. I think pre-season will tell us alot about this D.

JPP needs help from the other Dlinemen. If we can get another to create some havoc, perhaps Moore, it will help this D out immensley.
you bet ur ass we do  
area junc : 7/6/2014 10:16 am : link
even with a nothing year from JPP, no real starting CB other than Prince and acquiring Beason midseason we finished top 10. perry was reluctant to blitz because he had to protect his corners

careful w/PFF rankings - mcbride was scrappy and rated highly @PFF but in reality we had to roll coverage and not blitz, similar to how u protect a weak-link OLineman.

this year w/Prince and DRC outside and T3 in the slot perry has no excuses. he has his field general in beason who never left the meeting room or let his voice stop being heard

we are the best in the division. If JPP returns to form we are one of the best in the NFL, potentially right behind SEA and SF imo
Optimism,  
Doomster : 7/6/2014 10:42 am : link
thy name is BBI.....

There are just too many question marks on this defense.....

Will JPP bounce back after two years of injuries?

Will Kiwi be the DE who finished strong last year, from the opening bell?

Ayers? I have no idea what he can do...

Hankins is now the starter....big difference doing spot duty, compared to being a starter, can he do it?

Moore....with Tuck gone, should get significant playing time as long as he stays healthy......Will he be mini me or Da Monstah?

I don't think Beason will be physically ready for the start of the season...just hope they don't rush him back, causing further problems.....McClain is the only other linebacker on the team......but we have no idea how good/bad he is.....Paysinger and Williams? They both took steps backwards last year.....

The loss of Will HILL hurts.....he was one of those guys that did not seem to be out of position, defensively.....a strong tackler.....but nothing special in the defensive passing game.....Stevie Brown is another huge question mark with that knee......We have Rolle......but he can't do it by himself.....the new guys have not played in this system...think there will be communication problems, like in the past, with Fewell's system?

And now the corners....which I think is the most overrated part of this defense....DRC is not a shut down corner....and he can be lazy/out to lunch at times.....Prince, up to now, has shown he is a solid corner, nothing else.....he is not a turnover machine, and has problems with large receivers.....If ever there was a season, where this guy has to step it up, it's this one.....Walter Thurmond was part of the Seattle defense, he was not the defense.....8 starts in 4 years with one int and BBI is excited over this guy?

Everyone thinks, even if this defense does not establish a pass rush, that this team will still be strong in passing defense.....I don't think so.....without a pass rush, this defense will be in trouble.....you know teams will double team JPP, and frustrate the crap out of him.....so unless Kiwi and Moore and Jenkins can help out, especially if Beason is not 100%, this could be a long season with the offense having growing pains.....
Of course they do!  
TC : 7/6/2014 10:53 am : link
Just look at their record for 2014!

Oh, wait . . . .
There is nothing solid about Spencer Paysinger  
Greg from LI : 7/6/2014 11:18 am : link
He is absolutely terrible.
RE: Yes  
trueblueinpw : 7/6/2014 11:21 am : link
In comment 11756574 RetroJint said:
Quote:
Middle unit gives me the most cause for concern. Beason's history suggests he will hurt the foot again. Every remaining linebacker is either a question mark or a known incomplete player.


+1
Philly, Dallas, Washington...  
Klaatu : 7/6/2014 11:24 am : link
Their respective defenses are nothing to write home about, but I don't see how you can gauge the Giants' defense at this stage of the game, two weeks before camp begins, with so many new faces - free agents and draftees - who will be competing for playing time along with second and third year guys looking to establish themselves, plus the older vets who will be trying to show that they still have what it takes. I don't think you can honestly assess how good (or bad) this defense is until the bullets start flying, and even then, if it sputters at first, the hope would be that it would improve as the season progresses.
Paysinger's problem isn't a matter  
DG : 7/6/2014 11:28 am : link
of not being around the ball. His problem is that he can't finish plays. Neither can Herzlich. Williams is not bad, but he's not as good as many here think.

I'm afraid that LB will be a disaster again. Watch how the Giants D defends the TE and the slot and we'll see how good the Giants D is. My two cents - the D will be substandard. Good against bad offenses and terrible against good to great offenses. It doesn't matter how good the secondary is if the front 7 is below average to bad.
RE: RE: Spencer Williams will be utilized in a hybrid role..  
JCin332 : 7/6/2014 12:11 pm : link
In comment 11756555 That Said said:
Quote:
In comment 11756551 JCin332 said:


Quote:


...



I see what you did there.


Thanks I'm here all week...
By default  
OC : 7/6/2014 12:58 pm : link
If nothing else. Seriously though we should be pretty decent barring the injury bug getting out of control...again.
The thread starter called this team a bunch of bums a few days ago  
lono801 : 7/6/2014 1:22 pm : link
Now The Giants could have the best D in the East?

Every season brings surprises.  
bigfish703 : 7/6/2014 1:43 pm : link
Teams that are supposed to be great, crash, & others come from nowhere. e.g. KC last year. There are too many unknowns about the Giants' right now. They have a huge change in personnel and a radically new system.

Most likely, it will take them the first half of the season before they gel. I am an Eli Manning fan, but I wonder how he will adjust to a quicker paced game (Remember all of his "too much time" penalties), shorter passes (which were never his forte), & his lack of "touch" on screens & flares. Nevertheless, he is still "2 minute Eli," & there is no QB I would rather see getting his hands on the ball for the Giants, with his team on its own 20 , trailing by less than a touchdown, with time running out.

That said, I am still concerned with Eli's pass protection, especially left tackle, which I doubt has been fixed. Among the statistics I usually see, showing last year's disastrous season, the 31 sacks Eli took were among the highest in the league. No QB can complete a pass while flat on his back.

Another important stat from last year was 15 IRs, also among the highest in the NFL last year. Injuries in the NFL are as sure as death and taxes, so I was pleased to see the added depth we now have at DT, CB, S, & RB. I am concerned with the lack of such at LB ( Look how they have had to juggle & fit in rookie Devon Kinnard, with Beason out) & also at WR (if Cruz, Beckham, or Randle go out, neither Jernigan nor Holliday are proven receivers).

All of these unknowns add excitement to the coming season. Only 2 weeks to go b4 contact starts. GO GIANTS!
No.  
Red Dog : 7/6/2014 2:22 pm : link
.
By default  
Kyle : 7/6/2014 2:22 pm : link
I don't believe our defense is any better than middle of the road, but the Division is terrible.
A few days ago  
Semipro Lineman : 7/6/2014 2:49 pm : link
all the ESPN bloggers in the NFC East listed the biggest question marks about the teams they covered and the other three guys all listed the defense.

Since it's the ESPN Nation guys, I would take it with several grains of salt but the opportunity is there for the Giants since they basically finished with the Best Defense in the conference last year. (Insert obligatory comment about backup QB's distorting the stats.)
The answer to the original question about  
JoefromPa : 7/6/2014 10:45 pm : link
the "D" would be yes if they can continue to play the type of quarterback they played in their so called improved defensive play at the end of last season.
RE: A few days ago  
j_rud : 7/6/2014 11:06 pm : link
In comment 11756890 Semipro Lineman said:
Quote:
all the ESPN bloggers in the NFC East listed the biggest question marks about the teams they covered and the other three guys all listed the defense.



The bloggers all said the D was a question mark? I mean, everything is a question mark but at this point but that seems off to me. The D fared well (top 10) in quite a few categories last year and added some talented guys. As compared to the O, with a new interior OL, 2 new starting wideouts (assuming we see a of of 3 WR sets), a mostly new stable of RBs, and a new coordinator implementing a new system, the franchise QBs first in his decade with the team, I'd say the D is much less of a question mark.
j_rud  
Milton : 7/7/2014 12:17 am : link
You misunderstand. The bloggers all thought that defense was the number one concern for the team they covered, meaning Philadelphia, and Dallas, Washington. The blogger for the Giants probably picked the offense, or more specifically, the offensive line.
RE: By the way...  
Orange is the New Jack : 7/7/2014 12:48 am : link
In comment 11756588 BMac said:
Quote:
...It's "corps," not "core." This mis-usage has become one of the more common butcheries of the language here.


I'm sure correcting me on this will cure cancer
really not sure  
nedhiggins : 7/7/2014 6:03 am : link
a lot of question marks. I really hope Moore turns out to be something, and it goes without saying that JPP needs to play closer to 2011 form. I'm not ready to call Hankins the second coming of kevin williams like some people here, but lets hope he is good.
Defense  
stretch234 : 7/7/2014 11:49 am : link
2 things will determine how well this defense does;

1. It will be about pass rush - always has and always will be. If you cant pressure the QB, the secondary will have no chance regardless of who is there.

2. The offense. If they can not sustain drives and have as many 3 and outs as last year, the D will be worn out early

They have much better skill and depth at CB across the board, which will allow Rolle to stay at a position he does best

On the DL,I am hoping, and may be in the minority, that Kiwi has a very good year. It will be his 1st full year back from playing DE as full time player - that has got to be a big deal - body get acclimated to playing hand down
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