We're a little less than 2 weeks from the start of training camp, and going into this season is such an unknown for the Giants IMO.
1. How will the Ben McAdoo offense perform?
2. Will Eli have a bounce back season?
3. Will we get any production from the TE position?
3. Will the o-line keep Eli upright?
4. Will the secondary be as good as expected?
5. Will JPP return to 2011 form?
That is just a few of the questions in regards to this upcoming season. By far, the 2 biggest players are Eli & JPP. The 2011 run was largely due to the outstanding play of Eli & JPP.
I really have no idea. I would not be surprised at all if the Giants bounce back and go 10-6 and make the playoffs, but at the same time, I would not be surprised if the bottom fell out and the Giants go 5-11 and REALLY clean house.
I always worry when FA is used to compensate for poor drafting, that doesn't usually work and it isn't usually the Giants way.
It will be a very interesting season. I will say though there is a better chance for a bounce back playoff year.
I think the offense will be a work in progress and will hold the team back initially. It will be up to the defense to hold down the fort until the offense finally catches up and it might be too late by then.
8-8 or 9-7 is somewhat realistic right now provided everything falls into place as planned.
My biggest two concerns, you noted, are the play of the Oline and JPP. Those two things, IMO, will make or break the team this year.
so I'm not all that optimistic.
I look for a 9-7 (maybe 10-6) record and fighting for the Division Championship on the last weekend.
I also predict that Nick Foles will toss more than 4 interceptions this season, and Philadelphia will struggle to win 8.
I think we win 9 or 10, take the division, and lose in the first round of the playoffs.
baby.
There are so many unknowns out there along with so many new players, that any one who tries to make a declaration on whether the team will be good or not should not be taken seriously.
Almost every position group on the team has a question mark attached to it. From the QB on offense to the safety position on defense.
Is there upside? Yes.
Is there downside? Yes as well.
It does make for a lot of intrigue this year. Over/Under number from Vegas is 8 and I would not touch it in either direction.
the OL will be the key thou if they can get them as a unit and avoid injury to the best 5 guys they have now then a 2007 style turn around is possible,i still think they need an OL pick in round 1 or 2 next year to finish the job of rebuilding the OL
i also think the new offence will get the ball out of eli's hands quicker which will help the OL,gilbrides system took longer to setup, more often, which required better blocking which last years group werent upto
love what ive seen of odel beckham and cant wait to see them run a 4 WR with cruz,beckham,randle and manningham there isnt many teams who can cover that group man for man
we also see if adrian robinson's lack of production was down to gilbrides scheme or not,im hopeful it was.david wilson could also open up things for the passing game, as his speed needs to be accounted for by opposing defences, which can only lead to better matchups in the passing game
We fixed some of these things so our odds are pretty good, IMO.
1) We appear to have filled a lot of holes from last year.
2) Last year, not a single position other than MLB saw better play than expectations. Not one. These patterns tend to run in cycles. Given (1), if we also see at least a handful of key players play even modestly above expectations, this is a significantly better team.
3) If we have some true bouncebacks (JPP, Eli, even Weatherford) this is a much better team.
4) We appear to have more depth at most positions.
Now, if someone steps up at TE...
I think the offense will be a work in progress and will hold the team back initially. It will be up to the defense to hold down the fort until the offense finally catches up and it might be too late by then.
8-8 or 9-7 is somewhat realistic right now provided everything falls into place as planned.
My biggest two concerns, you noted, are the play of the Oline and JPP. Those two things, IMO, will make or break the team this year.
Wait! I thought pre-season means nothing! Heresy!
We fixed some of these things so our odds are pretty good, IMO.
You think "Eli Manning is your QB" is in itself a reason to be optimistic? One could argue that at this point it's a reason to be pessimistic and certainly, at the very least, wary. He was really, really shitty last season and is coming off an injury.
Obviously I hope for a bounce back but most definitely do not feel optimistic merely because he's behind center.
The shorter pass routes will cause less hits.
When reaching the red zone the Giant TD production will increase by three
fold, it can not get worse.
Being a mirror image of Dallas is unacceptable in his book. That being irrelevent for years.
I start with the premise that the GIANTS were one of the two or three worst teams in the league last year, and that their final record and defensive statistics were buoyed up by playing four games against QBs who should not have been on the field plus a winning a meaningless finale against a weak team (with another backup QB) that had absolutely nothing to play for.
This year's GIANTS team will be better, but how far can you go with all the problems that they had and against a very tough schedule? I think even 8-8 would be a minor miracle.
The team will take a while to get settled in with the new offense. One summer isn't enough to get all the bugs out, especially in view of the shifting personnel situation with both players and coaches.
The OL is in a transition stage that won't be completed for at least one more season - and they won't have much playing time together when the season opens. The WR and RB situations are unsettled, there is no TE worth a pro contract on the roster, and ditto for back up QBs. There are also many unanswered questions at all three levels on a defense that was truly bad last season, lost two if its best players plus one of its leaders, and may not really be any better overall this year, and Special Teams still suck badly until proven otherwise.
Then look at the schedule. The GIANTS always have trouble with the Eagles, have trouble stopping the combination of RGIII and Morris, and usually manage to lose a game to Dallas that they should have won. I'd peg them for no more than two or at the most three wins in their weak division.
They have the NFC West, arguably the strongest division in the league right now, with a trip to Super Bowl champ Seattle where the G-men usually shit the bed, a very strong San Fran who has a score to settle with the blue shirts, 'Zona who may well be a better team overall than the GIANTS at this point, and the Rams who won't go down without a fight. They could lose all four of these games, but let's say they manage to win one of them.
From the AFC, they have Indy, who is cleary a better team at this point, Tennessee who is another team that always seems to give them trouble, and Houston who is a good candidate for bounce-back team of the year because they are a lot better than their record indicates. Only Jax should be an easy win, and knowing the GIANTS, it won't be easy.
And for finishing position opponents, they open in Detroit, who also has a score to settle with them from last season, and host Atlanta who is also arguably a better team at this point. But let's say they manage to win one of these two games against inconsistent opponents.
That's five or six wins for the season.
The silver lining is that this season should allow them to figure out who can play and who can't, and who can coach adn who can't, and the guys that can will get some signifcant experience. If all goes well, and they plug some more personnel holes next spring, this team can seriously contend for a playoff spot in 2015.
Instead of just worrying about injuries, we get to worry about to much more.
Buckle up and enjoy the ride.
You remind me of the Roman emperor who had the best gladiator outshine his favorite and so he had the gladiator buried in the middle of the Coluseum with only his head sticking out.
Then he had the lions turned loose and chased them to where the Gladiator was buried.
As the lions ran past his head he decided to at least bite their balls and extract some measure of pain and possibly main one or two.......
at which time the Emperor called out for all to hear......."Fight fair, Ex noble Gladiator!"
You shitheads see Eli's hands are tied with no or very little support and you keep murmuring the karma ...."A good quarterback would have carried the team up the mountain and still be able to win the race."
Christ almighty, What did you expect from Eli? I guess he should have run the ball himself, While he was holding off the defense with his other hand \.
Then unexpectedly he was supposed to throw the ball downfield and run and catch it on the screen play. Of course he should KNOW that Rueben Randle is going to get confused and throw the ball to where Randle was going to be when he went the wrong way.
Why do I read what these assholes write? is there NOTHING else to read about the giants????
If it wasn't for Defender Dawg, I'd say I was reading the EAgles chat room. It sure as hell ain't a Giant FOOTBALL Forum.
Giants will win the East, win a playoff game and its game on....
The Giants have turned over practically their entire 2011 Super Bowl roster, frequently without having better or equal players for replacements. In fact, it goes back further than the Super Bowl to summer of 2011 when they cut O'Hara and Seubert right before camp. Guys who had anchored a very good O-Line for many years. (Yeah, I know O'Hara was hurt the year before. It happens to all players. But he was healthy in 2011.) Eli had his best year with a lousy running game and lousy protection.
After 2012 season we just had no cap space to do anything. (Thanks, Jerry. In Jerry We Trust) So we couldn't keep Bennett who would have plugged one hole for years, and let Osi and Cantey walk. Who needed a one dimensional Osi when we had JPP? Maybe JPP needed him.
In this offseason we let two stars walk, who both would have stayed, Nicks and Hill for great moral failures of dogging it and smoking, no getting caught smoking marijuana, now legal in New York for medicinal purposes. Like players of their caliber are growing on trees.
And they let their defensive captain, Justin Tuck, leave in free agency when Tuck was willing to stay in New York for about half the money. Tuck could still turn it on when he wanted to, and his replacement is Kiwanuka, who has a chance to finally emerge this year. But JPP, who is an immature individual, needed Tuck around, and Moore probably the same.
Incidentally, since Tuck admitted in mid-2011 that he was thinking of retiring, but turned up the juice for the playoff run, or in 2013 when he showed nothing in the first half but turned it on again probably when he started reading that he might be released, that means that Tuck was dogging it in the first half of those seasons right? Any other explanation? The Giants clearly had no interest in keeping him.
So respectability comes down to Eli, Beatty, and whether that first round draft choice can hit the field running. I'm not optimistic.
Well, they did sign Charles Brown. What other OT would you have liked them to sign instead? Also, why is it "pretty likely" that Beatty will stink again? And the Giants did address the interior of their O-Line - arguably a bigger problem than LT - by signing Schwartz and Jerry and drafting Richburg.
The Giants signed David Baas to replace O'Hara. It was a good signing; he was the best available UFA C on the market. It's not Reese's fault that Baas couldn't stay healthy. Oh, and Seubert retired after he wasn't re-signed by the Giants.
Osi burned his own bridge. Besides what did he do in Atlanta that makes you long for him? Canty wasn't worth anywhere near what it would have cost to keep him. The Bennett situation was unfortunate, but not unforeseen by several here at the time he was signed. The Giants had success with guys like Boss and Ballard. There was no way they were going to shell out big bucks for a guy who was only marginally better than they were. Reese's mistake wasn't letting Bennett go - it was signing Brandon Myers to replace him.
Nicks did not play like a star last year, not even close. He blew off OTAs, then dogged it on the field during the season. Hill had a lot of talent, but was undependable. Morality doesn't enter into it. He was given several chances to stay clean and abide by the rules set down by the NFL, and he failed every time.
Tuck was done. He was a great Giant in his time, but, sadly, that time has passed. Neither Moore nor JPP need Tuck moping around to step up their respective games. JPP just needs to stay healthy and Moore needs to show steady improvement. By all accounts, JPP feels better than he has in two years and is rarin' to go, and Moore has been working hard, doing everything asked of him, to get ready for the season. How is that immature?
Did you read your previous paragraph?
When have you ever been optimistic?
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But what did they do this offseason? John Mara said that protecting Eli would be the number one priority in the offseason. With all the money they spent on free agents, they didn't sign a tackle to replace Beatty if he stinks again, which, let's face it, is pretty likely.
Well, they did sign Charles Brown. What other OT would you have liked them to sign instead? Also, why is it "pretty likely" that Beatty will stink again? And the Giants did address the interior of their O-Line - arguably a bigger problem than LT - by signing Schwartz and Jerry and drafting Richburg.
Re-Direct:
"Brown looks the part with good size, long arms, and overall athleticism. But he is not overly tough or aggressive. Brown flashes the ability but he is not consistent. He struggled at times in pass protection at left tackle and he needs to cut down on the number of penalties (holding and illegal uses of hands)." Eric's analysis. I think we were looking for a tackle just a bit better if Beatty fails.
Beatty in six years in the league has only had one decent season. Last year he was handed a contract extension and the starting position and he fell apart.
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The Giants have turned over practically their entire 2011 Super Bowl roster, frequently without having better or equal players for replacements. In fact, it goes back further than the Super Bowl to summer of 2011 when they cut O'Hara and Seubert right before camp. Guys who had anchored a very good O-Line for many years. (Yeah, I know O'Hara was hurt the year before. It happens to all players. But he was healthy in 2011.) Eli had his best year with a lousy running game and lousy protection.
The Giants signed David Baas to replace O'Hara. It was a good signing; he was the best available UFA C on the market. It's not Reese's fault that Baas couldn't stay healthy. Oh, and Seubert retired after he wasn't re-signed by the Giants.
So you think that Baas if not injured would have been one of the best centers in the league? Can't argue with your opinion but don't think many agree. Not relevant that Seubert retired. Both he and O'Hara were healthy and raring to go when they got the news just before camp. It was too soon to break up a line that had played well for years, especially if Baas was the best they could do at center.
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After 2012 season we just had no cap space to do anything. (Thanks, Jerry. In Jerry We Trust) So we couldn't keep Bennett who would have plugged one hole for years, and let Osi and Cantey walk. Who needed a one dimensional Osi when we had JPP? Maybe JPP needed him.
Osi burned his own bridge. Besides what did he do in Atlanta that makes you long for him? Canty wasn't worth anywhere near what it would have cost to keep him. The Bennett situation was unfortunate, but not unforeseen by several here at the time he was signed. The Giants had success with guys like Boss and Ballard. There was no way they were going to shell out big bucks for a guy who was only marginally better than they were. Reese's mistake wasn't letting Bennett go - it was signing Brandon Myers to replace him.
When the Giants let a good player go too soon the first argument is always that it was the player's fault. Lots of players have heated confrontations with management over contracts, eventually agree on the contract, and all is good by season's start.
I admit I didn't appreciate Osi until he was gone and JPP didn't jump in and take his place. Osi had 7.5 sacks, 3 forced fumbles, and a pick six with the Falcons, getting no help from any of the other players who had no more than 5 sacks. More than that, Osi is a presence on the D-Line for whom the opposing quarterback must always account. The QB knows that if he doesn't get the ball out quickly Osi will be bearing down on him, although not as quickly as when he was younger. Reese broke his own rule that you can't have too many pass rushers.
Canty, although an underrated player, I'll give you since letting Joseph go was worse.
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In this offseason we let two stars walk, who both would have stayed, Nicks and Hill for great moral failures of dogging it and smoking, no getting caught smoking marijuana, now legal in New York for medicinal purposes. Like players of their caliber are growing on trees.
Nicks did not play like a star last year, not even close. He blew off OTAs, then dogged it on the field during the season. Hill had a lot of talent, but was undependable. Morality doesn't enter into it. He was given several chances to stay clean and abide by the rules set down by the NFL, and he failed every time.
Enough has been said about Nicks. I'll just add that no team official or player ever accused Nicks of dogging it.
Hill - Impact players are scarce in the league, and very scarce on the Giants. If you want to win, you don't let an impact player go unless someone holds a gun to your head. If you don't want to win then "winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." Who used to say that?
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And they let their defensive captain, Justin Tuck, leave in free agency when Tuck was willing to stay in New York for about half the money. Tuck could still turn it on when he wanted to, and his replacement is Kiwanuka, who has a chance to finally emerge this year. But JPP, who is an immature individual, needed Tuck around, and Moore probably the same.
Tuck was done. He was a great Giant in his time, but, sadly, that time has passed. Neither Moore nor JPP need Tuck moping around to step up their respective games. JPP just needs to stay healthy and Moore needs to show steady improvement. By all accounts, JPP feels better than he has in two years and is rarin' to go, and Moore has been working hard, doing everything asked of him, to get ready for the season. How is that immature?
Here we go again. Tuck was done at age 31. Seems to me he could still turn it on when he wanted to. I guess that we disagree on the value of a leader and mentor for the younger players. We'll just have to see if JPP reaches double digit sacks again. And if Kiwanuka, who has arguably never done enough to be given the label "done", is an improvement over Tuck. (Actually I'm a hopeful that Kiwanuka might deliver an upside surprise.)
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Incidentally, since Tuck admitted in mid-2011 that he was thinking of retiring, but turned up the juice for the playoff run, or in 2013 when he showed nothing in the first half but turned it on again probably when he started reading that he might be released, that means that Tuck was dogging it in the first half of those seasons right? Any other explanation? The Giants clearly had no interest in keeping him.
Did you read your previous paragraph?
Yes, but you see I don't believe that either of them was consciously dogging it. If you think that Nicks was dogging it, in his contract year no less, an absurd accusation, then you should think that Tuck was dogging it.
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So respectability comes down to Eli, Beatty, and whether that first round draft choice can hit the field running. I'm not optimistic.
When have you ever been optimistic?
Not very often, although I had high hopes for the 2012 team.
Also puzzled why so many have no worries about Eli this year, although he has the same left tackle and is breaking in a brand new interior line.
Not often optimistic, but always hoping very hard.
On offense, I think we'll struggle early and improve. We need early wins using surprise, defense and ST's.
Hope we get the last playoff spot and win a game!
Which is which, I have no idea.