NFT: JR Smith wouldn't blame Knicks for trading him...

JR Smith for Ersan Ilyasova, and I really hope I'm wrong.

I have no idea why Ilyasova was so bad last year, but I really don't care. I partially know why JR Smith was bad last year and know definitely he can improve his stock. I don't know that with Ilyasova.

Ilyasova had a .409 FG% as a big man. That is disgusting for a C/PF. JR Smith is a chuck SG and he had a higher FG% than him, just to put into perspective.

think the Knicks can trade Larkin or Ellington right now, so those two are off the table (you can't trade someone who'm you traded for until two months following that trade). Listening to both Phil and Steve Mills in the summer league, plus Alan Hahn all mentioning how they need to even out the roster, that they are too guard heavy, I am pretty sure they all know a trade is coming in some sort. I actually don't think its for a big man, I think its for a true SF. They want a backup for Melo who isn't a rookie 2nd round pick (despite everyone else wanting to see him get playing time). They don't want to play Shump or JR out of position at the 3. I don't know who the target is, but think that's the way they would be looking.

In comment 11773830 AnotherGiantsFan said:

Quote:

JR Smith for Ersan Ilyasova, and I really hope I'm wrong. I have no idea why Ilyasova was so bad last year, but I really don't care. I partially know why JR Smith was bad last year and know definitely he can improve his stock. I don't know that with Ilyasova. Ilyasova had a .409 FG% as a big man. That is disgusting for a C/PF. JR Smith is a chuck SG and he had a higher FG% than him, just to put into perspective.

Ilyasova is more SF than C. Last year was terrible for him, but he was a useful player the two seasons before that. I'm not sure JR is a great fit for the Bucks, but we could probably do worse. Especially if they threw in someone like Wolters. Is there a source for that or are you just guessing?

I think I'd prefer keeping JR for now. He 100% has a place in the triangle. If we're going to move someone, it should be Shump. I'm fully behind the idea of trading Shump and Bargs for something.

Which is why I'm labeling it a gut call. But I didn't pull the name Ilyasova out of thin air just 'cause. It's the worst kept secret in the NBA that the Bucks are trying to get rid of him.

Quote:

Gery Woelfel @GeryWoelfel Follow Bucks are still shopping Ilyasova and, as an NBA official added "shopping him hard."

But as for JR for Ilyasova? That's just the ol' AGF lock prediction of FA.

Also, you're absolutely right on him being more of a combo Forward than a combo big man. My mistake. I also think that's why we go for Ilyasova. We could use a SF.

think its Ilyasova personally. Phil has been totally transparent since he got here and he keeps saying his mission is to be fiscally responsible. I dont see him taking on more 2015 salary in a deal. How do you explain to Melo that his pay-cut netted the awesome upgrade of JR to Ersan in cap space difference for next year?

In comment 11773859 Steve in Greenwich said:

Quote:

think its Ilyasova personally. Phil has been totally transparent since he got here and he keeps saying his mission is to be fiscally responsible. I dont see him taking on more 2015 salary in a deal. How do you explain to Melo that his pay-cut netted the awesome upgrade of JR to Ersan in cap space difference for next year?

We traded an expiring Tyson Chandler for a 33 PG that will be making 22 million over the next 3 years. If fiscal responsibility was the end all be all we would have bit the bullet with Tyson Chandler so we have balls to the walls cap space next offseason.

I do agree with you somewhat though, which is why I don't want the trade to happen at all. It's just a gut feeling that I hope I'm wrong about. I love JR Smith and hope he stays.

Quote:

In comment 11773878 AnotherGiantsFan said: We traded an expiring Tyson Chandler for a 33 PG that will be making 22 million over the next 3 years. If fiscal responsibility was the end all be all we would have bit the bullet with Tyson Chandler so we have balls to the walls cap space next offseason. I do agree with you somewhat though, which is why I don't want the trade to happen at all. It's just a gut feeling that I hope I'm wrong about. I love JR Smith and hope he stays.

It might have not looked fiscally responsible by taking on the extra years, but on the books that trade saved the Knicks close to 20 million dollars. The 4 million in cap savings it netted them from this year dropped them below 10 million over the luxury tax; and as repeat offenders that was a big distinction. They're currently 7.4 mil over the tax being taxed at a $2.75 to $1 over rate, they would have been 11.3 mil over being taxed at a $3.50 to $1 rate if they had not made that trade. The net savings was close to 20 mil.

Over analysis, yes. But it was a fiscally responsible trade.

I could not care less about fiscal responsibility when it has nothing to do with creating cap room and just about saving money in their pockets. I'm pretty sure and hope that they don't care all that much about luxury tax. If anything I think they cared more about getting rid of Raymond Felton than anything else.

That sort of fiscal responsibility you are talking about is what kept teams like OKC from getting better and being NBA champions.

the cap savings, the trade exception, calderon, larkin, early, and getting rid of two malcontents, that trade was fookin sweet.

I just didn't think that trade was for fiscal responsibility as much as it was for getting rid of guys we didn't want for guys/picks we did want.

As a fan, I just look at fiscal responsibility as trying to build cap space. I don't look at it in the view of saving luxury tax money. Maybe that's just because I'm so used to this franchise never caring about that.

But it doesn't do you any good if top talent doesn't want to play for you. The last time the Knicks had space, all it got them was Amare and his bad knees.

You have to build a team that players want to play for. Nobody wants to play for a team led by Raymond Felton.

Jackson et al have been able to significantly improve prospects for this year without damaging cap space. Fitting Jason Smith into a 1-year cap slot could be an enormous help if he is decently healthy, which he seems to be.

I know they are worried about going into the season without another sf, but that could be worse. Using JR and Shump as backup 3's along with Early might work out OK if those two have better seasons, which I think they both will. The big problem with that is when they want to use Melo at the 4, they need to balance that with a more physical three than they currently have on their roster--like Meta?

But as I understand it, with the new CBA, if you're over the cap apron, it restricts even minor moves you can make. This wasn't the case before when they had no problem paying 80m in tax.

pointless, IMO. I'd rid ourselves of JR 'a contract if possible, but if not, I'd trade shump if we could get an asset. One of then needs to go, preferably JR, IMO.

He's the worst offensive player of all the guarsd, and probably still has some value around the league for his potential.

I hope putting him at the 3 is not in the plans at all.

If we are keeping the best players, JR Smith is clearly staying over Shumpert. We can talk about Shump's potential all we want, but he will never be as good as JR Smith.

A reason why I like to watch some of the Summer League is to see if any of our guys stick out like a sore thumb over a weak group of guys or if they look like everyone else out there.

THJr. looked like a man amongst boys throughout this Summer League. Every single game he was the best player on the floor and it really wasn't all that close. Shump never gave that impression in the Summer League last year. He looked like everyone else out there. That's because he has nothing to offer on the offensive side. His handles are piss poor, can't drive to the basket, and has an inconsistent jump shot.

Shump came into the summer league last year injured, and only played at all because Dolan is a moron. I'm not saying don't trade him, but he nursed injuries for a good chunk of the season.

My preference, unless there is a trade out there that just has to be made, is to let thinks sort themselves out in training camp. Shump's trade value could get better.

Btw, this stuff about trading Larkin still confuses me. They want to sign a 3, but giving up a pg to do it makes no sense unless they do a 2-for-2 trade and land another backup pg as well. Writers keep talking about "too many guards." Surely they have too many guards, but all of the excess is 2's.

methinks.

but Hardaway appears to have offensive skills that you can't teach and Shumpert will not come close to. Shumpert is a natural defender..but you can replace that.

Hardaway and JR have more valuable skillsets than Shumpert. I just can't envision a future where Shumpert comes close to either of their offensive games.

Maybe bad coaching got in Shumpert's way, but he's so bad offensively. Even Landry Fields was good at backdoor cutting and getting easy buckets. Shumpert can't even do that.

But I can't agree with the people who believe Shumpert has more to offer this team than JR Smith.

That being said, I'm not sure if Phil Jackson has any idea who he'll trade. I 100% believe that he intentionally leaked this so it can spread like wildfire and now he'll take the best bang for his buck. Not necessarily what nets him the most, because obviously that would end up being JR...but what nets him the best value for what he's giving up.

Methinks that you'll need a strong SG defensive presence like Shumpert, which is why I think Smith (and Ellington) should go out of JR, Shumpert and Larkin.

that JR has skills that shump will never reach. That being said, shump's the only guard that can defend on this roster. I'm not sure either is going to net enough though.

who on this roster can defend a guard? Calderon is a terrible defensive player. THJR isn't defending the oppositions best guard. JR Smith is ok, but he's certainly not someone I have confidence to step up on a daily basis defensively. Our bigs are mostly atrocious defensively. Shump is the only guy that can do it and I'd bet he's motivated to prove his doubters wrong after last year.

Jackson said all along that he was a trade filler. As a trade filler making $2.5 mm, who would take him?

no, he would not be ideal as a backup 3. IF he were to play back to the 2012-3 season as a shooter, while holding the improvement he made as a rebounder last year, he could be a reasonable backstop, especially given his defensive capabilities. Not ideal, but not as terrible as some here suggest, IF he can hit the corner 3 at over .400 as he did a year earlier. Maybe his other skills improve this year as well. That is what camp would tell us. As noted above, he has plenty to prove.

from his biggest and arguably only asset...his defense. Obviously if he's shooting .400 from 3, he's adding value, but the whole point of using Shump to the best of his abilities, is him guarding the oppositions best guard. If he's not going to do that, he's kind of pointless.

His value has got to be close to as low as it could be. He was a complete knucklehead with his antics last year, and his overall numbers were below his typical standards. I think the best way to approach it is to let him stay for the first few months of the season, and increase his value.

After the All Star break last year Smith averaged 16.6 pts, 4 rebs, 3 ast on 44.8% shooting from the floor and 41.7% from 3. That is close to the level of production that he had in his 6th man of the year season. If Smith can come out and play like that for the first 3 months of the year, I don't see any reason that Phil can't get good value for him.

I'll agree that ideally you'd like Smith(or Shump for that matter) to have the chance to raise their value because both guys are at a low right now, but there isn't enough minutes or space for all 3 guys. Neither Smith nor Shump are ideal at the 3, so they there isn't enough minutes to go around. Also, let's not pretend like Smith had so many suitors when he was available as a FA. There weren't many teams interested in him as I think most realize that he's a knucklehead that will never play to the level that he should play to.

I have no doubt that JR would find a good deal somewhere if Nick Young can get 4/21.5 from the Lakers. I feel like JR Smith is better at his job than Nick Young.

In comment 11774249 kmed said:

Quote:

I'll agree that ideally you'd like Smith(or Shump for that matter) to have the chance to raise their value because both guys are at a low right now, but there isn't enough minutes or space for all 3 guys. Neither Smith nor Shump are ideal at the 3, so they there isn't enough minutes to go around. Also, let's not pretend like Smith had so many suitors when he was available as a FA. There weren't many teams interested in him as I think most realize that he's a knucklehead that will never play to the level that he should play to.

I agree there isn't room for all 3. I have no problem with moving Iman. I just don't think he's very good. As far as suitors for Smith, the landscape has changed. Look at some of the contracts that were handed out this year. Lance Stephenson is a bigger clown than Smith and was able to get a 3 year commitment out of Charlotte. It shouldn't be hard to find someone to take a flier on Smith with a shorter contract and half the money owed compared to what Lance got.

the physical tools as JR.

2 years with a team option.

In comment 11774253 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

I have no doubt that JR would find a good deal somewhere if Nick Young can get 4/21.5 from the Lakers. I feel like JR Smith is better at his job than Nick Young.

Rihanna vs. Iggy Azalea

In comment 11774448 kmed said:

Quote:

the physical tools as JR.

I don't agree with that at all. Smith was a lottery pick out of high school for a reason. His talent has never been the issue. He has always been considered an extremely gifted player. He has the ability to be one of the best SG in the league, he's just a clown, and a dumbass. Smith just has a much longer track record of being a clown than Stephenson does which is why he hasn't been able to cash in as Lance has.

stephenson is a bit bigger, but athletically JR can probably go toe to toe with him. JR is an insane athlete which is probably the only reason he is still hanging around the league.

more crazy than JR.

Smith is insanely athletic. His frustration is that he doesn't put it to use on the court. He's content to be a jump shooter when he could probably take anyone off the dribble.

As opposed to JR Smith who just likes weed, women, and alcohol.


...and untying shoe laces.

In comment 11774637 AnotherGiantsFan said:

Quote:

As opposed to JR Smith who just likes weed, women, and alcohol. ...and untying shoe laces.

The last part cracked me up.

In comment 11774456 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 11774253 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: I have no doubt that JR would find a good deal somewhere if Nick Young can get 4/21.5 from the Lakers. I feel like JR Smith is better at his job than Nick Young. Rihanna vs. Iggy Azalea

Come on. J.R. is better than Nick Young. J.R. at least attempts to play defense and does it well from time to time. Nick Young is allergic to it and breaks out in hives when he DOES play it.

but I def have a hatred of JR Smith and it shines through often. I think Stephenson is a much better player mainly because he is ascending and is much younger than JR who has peaked and has already proven that he's a loser.

Smith is better than Nick Young. Not by a wide margin but he is better. Stephenson is easily better than both.

.

didn't he get in trouble for gang affiliations or something?

but it was a joke infused with a comparison that I didn't agree with.

In comment 11774831 kmed said:

Quote:

didn't he get in trouble for gang affiliations or something?

J.R. is not a kid anymore either. Dude is almost 30.

another reason I'll take Stephenson over JR any day of the week. JR has peaked and has proven that he will always be a loser. Stephenson can still turn it around and seems to be a kid on the rise.

being a prick/scumbag is part of comparing on-court ability now? Further, while I do NOT believe Stephenson will be one of these guys, there have been true morons who eventually matured (ZBO comes to mind). Far less track record but Cousins was roundly praised for his maturity level this year.

I just made the clear distinction between JR Smith and Lance Stephenson as people. JR Smith is immature and likes to have fun off the court, Lance Stephenson is a piece of shit on and off the court.

It's unfortunate the Pacers were so patient with Lance and gave him time to develop. If he was drafted by any other team, he would be out of the league by now.

but wasn't JR Smith known to have gang affiliations or was that blown out of proportion?