NFT: Cavs now willing to include Wiggins in trade

of arguing this anymore?

In comment 11772045 MookGiants said:

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the two reasons he went there were because of money and there roster. Never mentioned anything else. What are you going to be like kmed and act as if this hasnt been talked about that it would eventually happen over the last 2-3 years? Read Wojo's article from 2 years ago. Everyone knew he was eventually going back, except for you and kmed I guess

I never denied what you said either though. I have always said the only place he'd ever leave Miami for is Cleveland because he'd be even more villified if he went anywhere else. However... he had a plan to win in excess of 5 or 6 titles in Miami, and he leaves the first chance he gets at least 4 titles too short. That doesn't happen if the Cavs have a shit roster. He would've reupped with Miami without giving the Cavs the time of day.

LeBron has been in a lose/lose situation ever since the decision when it comes to fan perception of him. 90% of my friends who are NBA fans rag on the guy for every single fucking thing he does. Either he went somewhere that it was "too easy" to win (I guess these guys should be deliberately searching for the most difficult scenarios possible), should have never left Cleveland (because clearly, after 7 years they were giving him such a great chance to win with Larry Hughes, Mo Williams and Antawn Jamison).. then he's greedy.. but not taking enough money... leaving Miami at the first sign of trouble (I guess he should just hang out there the rest of his career regardless of how much the team around him declines)

Anything the guy does is a problem for certain people. Jordan never would have gotten a cramp in an NBA finals game! Jordan never would have left his team! (No shit, he didn't have to)

It just is what it is. Some people will never let it go.

he said something crazy in a crowd full of Heat fans right after he signed that was his plan? Hilarious.

but I don't fit into that category at all. I didn't hate him for leaving Cleveland at all. I didn't hate him for doing his show. I didn't hate him for teaming up with his boys to try and win 7 titles. That being said, I'm not buying this going home crap.

Some people will defend Lebron no matter what and fall for the BS storylines. It is what it is, some people are just fanboys.

kmed.. the whole "going home" thing is definitely part PR spin to try and reclaim his "good guy" image from pre-Miami but it's just stuff that I don't even think matters. I pay no attention to it. I don't care why he went back there I just think from a basketball standpoint it made sense and there's probably some modicum of truth to the idea that he actually does like Cleveland. If they had a shitty team, I don't think he would have gone there but why should he have? The idea is to win, so. A guy in the prime of his career needs to go somewhere that it is feasible.

Some people seem to think LeBron should just go to the worst team in the league and win a chip on his own and that's the way to prove his greatness. It's just so silly.

Those who are upset at lebron will always be upset at him and those who have forgiven are not going to suddenly unforgive him.

No amount of debating will change peoples opinions on him. Period.

I saw a thread about a potential trade (wiggins for Love) that could be the most intriguing trade of our generation considering how high Wiggins ceiling is and just wanted to see the debate on that lol.

is sort of telling about his character. When he left Cleveland, he left with a challenge of winning a plethora of championships(7+ according to Lebron). He left Cleveland because they put a bad team around him and he didn't want to wait around for them to get better. They were contenders in cleveland, but clearly they were contenders because Lebron was on the team. It would have been a challenge to stay and win, but I understand why he left.

Then the whole madness of going to miami with the show and the introduction and all that garbage. As soon as that challenge looks tough. He bolts to "go home". It just so happens that home has 3 #1 draft picks in the past 4 years. They have Kyrie locked up to a max and a plethora of assets to add talent with Lebron(as well as future assets to add). I think it's lame that he ran from another challenge, this one that HE created.

him for going back. There is definitely some truth to the letter he wrote (who wouldn't want to win for their hometown team?), but I just think it's comical how people are treating this as some kind of redemption quest when it isn't anything of the sort. He's going to a younger, more talented team than the one he's leaving. It's the right move, but just don't tell me you're going home to redeem what you did 4 years ago. It's silly. You're going home because they give you the best chance to win in the near future.

but I am not a Lebron hater by any stretch. At least not any more than I hate every other star that has beaten, beats or will beat the Knicks. I am calling this situation for what it is and despite all the people that feel the need to defend Lebron because they always defend Lebron, do not pigeon hole me as some Lebron hater. I am not a hater at all.

In comment 11772058 MookGiants said:

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he said something crazy in a crowd full of Heat fans right after he signed that was his plan? Hilarious.

Right... hilarious to take a guy at his word.

Lebron took a 2 year contract so when his contract expires the Cavs better hope the cap goes up as much as they are saying because they are going to need cap space to resign Lebron....

they wont have his bird rights so if they are over the cap h ewont be able to get the max from Cavs....they better be very smart with their spending

after 2 years, did that change?

It's no different than Melo's "letter to the fans" about how he wants to ride or die for NY. No, he wanted to get paid the most money and that was his motivation. Nothing more. The rest is nonsense. If he could have made more elsewhere, he would have been gone.

I still think Cleveland will be somewhat challenging for LeBron. I don't think they're just going to steamroll the East by any stretch. Sure, it's a promising situation with room for huge potential but from his perspective it made a ton of sense.

I don't think we should really hold it against a player for wanting to win and put himself in the best situation to do so. Is that really worse than just taking the most money and maxing out even if it means not having much chance of a chip?

I think love is a no go for them. Soon Thompson and waiters will need to get paid or traded

In comment 11772084 kmed said:

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after 2 years, did that change?

Its 3 now

For taking the most money and staying on a non contender and lebron gets bashed for taking less to go to a better situation. I don't get it

In comment 11772091 giantsfan44ab said:

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For taking the most money and staying on a non contender and lebron gets bashed for taking less to go to a better situation. I don't get it

You'll never get anything when you keep looking at things in a bubble.

is directly tied to D-Wade's health. So it's not like LeBron left Miami because they weren't good enough. He left Miami because he doesn't trust D-Wade to stay healthy. How can you possibly blame him for that?

Knicks fans have been making excuses with Melo for years because they think playing with an injury-prone Amare hurt the Knicks tremendously. But now you guys think LeBron should've stayed in Miami next to Wade? A guy who can only play 2/3rd's of Miami's games and still not be healthy for the playoffs? I don't blame LeBron one bit for not wanting to hitch his wagon to D-Wade.

It's ridiculous that you guys blame LeBron for seeing what we all see when it comes to Wade.

In comment 11772080 EricNY33 said:

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In comment 11772058 MookGiants said: Quote: he said something crazy in a crowd full of Heat fans right after he signed that was his plan? Hilarious. Right... hilarious to take a guy at his word.

If we start taking athletes at their word during parades/celebrations in front of tons of fans then get ready to rip a lot of players.

I guess when guys guarantee they're going to do it again next year after a parade in front of the fans they should be ripped to, right?

He didnt say this in a press conference with media asking questions. He said it in front of an arena full of heat fans. He was fucking around, but somehow gets ripped for it.

In comment 11772048 LawrenceTaylor56 said:

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of arguing this anymore?

LOL! Right?! That's why I've been sitting here reading this thread while shaking my head and laughing and refusing to get involved with kmed and others who insist on making sure everyone knows for a FACT that LeBron went back to Cleveland because it was easier for him (like any of us would willingly take the 'hard road') to win a championship and they could pay him and that the whole 'Going home' story is nothing but a huge bunch of crap. I came to the conclusion after the last thread about this that there's no changing kmed's, and those that agree with him, mind and to just let them stew over LeBron's choices while banging their keyboards and yelling 'I HATE LEBRON!!!'.

telling us repeatedly that they 'have no problem with what LeBron did'. LOL!

thanks.

In comment 11772086 arcarsenal said:

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It's no different than Melo's "letter to the fans" about how he wants to ride or die for NY. No, he wanted to get paid the most money and that was his motivation. Nothing more. The rest is nonsense. If he could have made more elsewhere, he would have been gone. I still think Cleveland will be somewhat challenging for LeBron. I don't think they're just going to steamroll the East by any stretch. Sure, it's a promising situation with room for huge potential but from his perspective it made a ton of sense. I don't think we should really hold it against a player for wanting to win and put himself in the best situation to do so. Is that really worse than just taking the most money and maxing out even if it means not having much chance of a chip?

But I am not ripping him for choosing Cleveland. It makes the best basketball sense. It was the right move, and one most of us would make. However... don't sell it as this noble return to my hometown because "I didn't understand how much it meant to me four years ago" Home is always home. It always means something to you. Being away does make you miss it, but it's still home. He lives there in the Summer regardless. It's not like he never went back in the 4 years he was in Miami. He chose the Cavs because they have the better situation now, which is fine.

In comment 11772098 MookGiants said:

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In comment 11772080 EricNY33 said: Quote: In comment 11772058 MookGiants said: Quote: he said something crazy in a crowd full of Heat fans right after he signed that was his plan? Hilarious. Right... hilarious to take a guy at his word. If we start taking athletes at their word during parades/celebrations in front of tons of fans then get ready to rip a lot of players. I guess when guys guarantee they're going to do it again next year after a parade in front of the fans they should be ripped to, right? He didnt say this in a press conference with media asking questions. He said it in front of an arena full of heat fans. He was fucking around, but somehow gets ripped for it.

Exactly

In comment 11772115 EricNY33 said:

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In comment 11772086 arcarsenal said: Quote: It's no different than Melo's "letter to the fans" about how he wants to ride or die for NY. No, he wanted to get paid the most money and that was his motivation. Nothing more. The rest is nonsense. If he could have made more elsewhere, he would have been gone. I still think Cleveland will be somewhat challenging for LeBron. I don't think they're just going to steamroll the East by any stretch. Sure, it's a promising situation with room for huge potential but from his perspective it made a ton of sense. I don't think we should really hold it against a player for wanting to win and put himself in the best situation to do so. Is that really worse than just taking the most money and maxing out even if it means not having much chance of a chip? But I am not ripping him for choosing Cleveland. It makes the best basketball sense. It was the right move, and one most of us would make. However... don't sell it as this noble return to my hometown because "I didn't understand how much it meant to me four years ago" Home is always home. It always means something to you. Being away does make you miss it, but it's still home. He lives there in the Summer regardless. It's not like he never went back in the 4 years he was in Miami. He chose the Cavs because they have the better situation now, which is fine.

I know, but that's all just PR shit. It doesn't really matter. Melo's statement was full of nonsense, too. It's just a way to "make nice" with all the fans and move on from "the decision" era for good.

In comment 11772125 arcarsenal said:

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In comment 11772115 EricNY33 said: Quote: In comment 11772086 arcarsenal said: Quote: It's no different than Melo's "letter to the fans" about how he wants to ride or die for NY. No, he wanted to get paid the most money and that was his motivation. Nothing more. The rest is nonsense. If he could have made more elsewhere, he would have been gone. I still think Cleveland will be somewhat challenging for LeBron. I don't think they're just going to steamroll the East by any stretch. Sure, it's a promising situation with room for huge potential but from his perspective it made a ton of sense. I don't think we should really hold it against a player for wanting to win and put himself in the best situation to do so. Is that really worse than just taking the most money and maxing out even if it means not having much chance of a chip? But I am not ripping him for choosing Cleveland. It makes the best basketball sense. It was the right move, and one most of us would make. However... don't sell it as this noble return to my hometown because "I didn't understand how much it meant to me four years ago" Home is always home. It always means something to you. Being away does make you miss it, but it's still home. He lives there in the Summer regardless. It's not like he never went back in the 4 years he was in Miami. He chose the Cavs because they have the better situation now, which is fine. I know, but that's all just PR shit. It doesn't really matter. Melo's statement was full of nonsense, too. It's just a way to "make nice" with all the fans and move on from "the decision" era for good.

By the way... nice to see you back around here!

Is that no one actually bought his bullshit. LeBron's bullshit has been plastered everywhere. People genuinely believe this.

I also don't understand why people are acting like posters on here are hammering LeBron because they think what he said is bullshit. I'm glad he's back in Cleveland, but also realize this was the best opportunity for him to win a championship and that was his main goal. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive.

the city absolutely detested him. The environment during those original Big 3 Heat @ Cleveland game was ridiculous. After all that abuse that he took, him coming back IS a major aspect of the story. There's no doubt that his family was against this move, they saw how he was treated when he left. LeBron had to think long and hard about going back.

LeBron "going home" being portrayed as the absolute main reason why he returned is BS. We all know it's PR spin to make him look as good as he can. We all know that he's worried about D-Wade's health and sees the Cavs as a young team on the rise if they can land Love to pair up with Kyrie. Winning was a part of his decision. But I think "going home" was still a major part of his decision as well.

Would he have gone to Milwaukee or Atlanta if they were in the same situation as Cleveland? I seriously doubt that. No fucking way he goes to Milwaukee in any circumstance. No fucking way he goes to Cleveland if he didn't like Cleveland more than the usual athlete.

Either way, I agree that we should be done with this.

So... Eric Bledsoe? WTF is gonna happen there? Notoriously Cheap Owner + An Agent everyone hates = more drama than expected. Please Based God, allow Morey to pull something crazy out of his ass! Bledsoe could easily end up being the 2nd best player from this FA class if he stays healthy.

I mean let's face it: LeBron won't be the first or last player to flee a close-to-championship-level team and sign with the perennial powerhouse that is the consummately managed Cleveland Cavaliers. They're always there to jump ship to at the first sign of a challenge, and when you bail in favor of a team stocked with a fringe top 10 player at one position and then maybe one top 30 player at the remaining four, your ring-chasing motives are transparent.

The Greek Freak is getting extended action as the PG of the Bucks. A 6'11" player with what seems like an 8' wingspan... playing PG.

For as much hype as Wiggins and Parker have received, Giannis is probably the better young prospect right now with arguably the highest ceiling of all 3. Just a crazy talent.

In comment 11772086 arcarsenal said:

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I still think Cleveland will be somewhat challenging for LeBron. I don't think they're just going to steamroll the East by any stretch.

What?? You don't mean to say that the East's hapless teams won't be steamrolled by the following historic collection of talent:

Kyrie Irving
Matthew Dellasomething
Carrick Felix
Joe Harris
Brendan Haywood
THE Anthony Bennett
Dwight Powell
Tristan Thompson
Anderson Varejao
Dion Waiters
Andrew Wiggins

Could be a transcendent 2 way player the way he is playing. He can pull up for 3s now it seems like. Looks a lot more comfortable with the ball in his hands now, granted it's just summer league but still.

And the prospect forgotten I think is Anthony Davis. He's on a level that I don't think Parker not Wiggins could ever reach. In 3 years I think he will be up there with KD and lebron and possibly griffin , and everyone else will be on the next level down.

no one else in the NBA has close to the trade value of Davis. Health is the only thing stopping him from becoming a legendary player.

.

Underperformed heavily but watching him in summer league it seems unbelievable how high his ceiling is. He's so quick and athletic and when he's on the jumper is automatic. I daresay he reminds me if D Wade with a 3 but it could still be years for him to develop fully

the "best opportunity" to win championship, which the Cavaliers decidedly don't present, and then there's the "most appealing opportunity" to win a championship. I bet winning a championship with a Cleveland team -- as hard as it will be -- is certainly a very appealing possibility to LeBron. It would be historic, and it would be sentimental to him and celebrated by others in a way it wouldn't be elsewhere.

Of course he's got to be sitting there thinking, "Holy shit, it would be so awesome to win a championship here." But he'd be silly to think, "This place presents a chance to win a championship that no one else does."

coming out. Not many prospects have the potential to participate in both the Dunk Contest and 3pt Contest. I felt like I could see McLemore in either contest one day. He just had a great combination of athleticism and shooting.

I don't think he has the handles to get to the rim at will like D-Wade or Harden or some of the other elite guards. I think that will limit him somewhat. But I still like him even after the disappointing rookie year.

In comment 11772177 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:

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coming out. Not many prospects have the potential to participate in both the Dunk Contest and 3pt Contest. I felt like I could see McLemore in either contest one day. He just had a great combination of athleticism and shooting. I don't think he has the handles to get to the rim at will like D-Wade or Harden or some of the other elite guards. I think that will limit him somewhat. But I still like him even after the disappointing rookie year.

True but he was getting compared to Ray Allen coming out and while the 3 point shot isn't there he's far more athletic. He's the type of off ball player that can become a 20+Ppg type of player.

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So... Eric Bledsoe? WTF is gonna happen there? Notoriously Cheap Owner + An Agent everyone hates = more drama than expected. Please Based God, allow Morey to pull something crazy out of his ass! Bledsoe could easily end up being the 2nd best player from this FA class if he stays healthy.

It's been said that Bledsoe is looking for 5/80 and Suns are offering 4/48. That's a pretty substantial disagreement.

In comment 11772086 arcarsenal said:

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It's no different than Melo's "letter to the fans" about how he wants to ride or die for NY. No, he wanted to get paid the most money and that was his motivation. Nothing more. The rest is nonsense. If he could have made more elsewhere, he would have been gone. I still think Cleveland will be somewhat challenging for LeBron. I don't think they're just going to steamroll the East by any stretch. Sure, it's a promising situation with room for huge potential but from his perspective it made a ton of sense. I don't think we should really hold it against a player for wanting to win and put himself in the best situation to do so. Is that really worse than just taking the most money and maxing out even if it means not having much chance of a chip?

On point! 👌

Thread Over..

In comment 11772164 santacruzom said:

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In comment 11772086 arcarsenal said: Quote: I still think Cleveland will be somewhat challenging for LeBron. I don't think they're just going to steamroll the East by any stretch. What?? You don't mean to say that the East's hapless teams won't be steamrolled by the following historic collection of talent: Kyrie Irving Matthew Dellasomething Carrick Felix Joe Harris Brendan Haywood THE Anthony Bennett Dwight Powell Tristan Thompson Anderson Varejao Dion Waiters Andrew Wiggins

Lebron took alot lesser talent in both Cleveland (and arguably Miami last year with a broken down Wade and a bunch of spare parts) to the finals.

This team if the young guys develop is likely better than Miami was last year and most definitely the Cleveland team he took to the finals.

I'd like to officially change my stance now. The cast in Cleveland blows and he is taking on a massive challenge.

Too late kmed! You're stuck with him now!

In comment 11772021 kmed said:

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would be the same for Lebron James.

As opposed to any other city in this country? It's not like Lebron couldnt nail the hottest girl / model in a bar in NYC... or LA... or Vegas.. or Dallas.. or Houston...

so, stupid point, kmed

In comment 11772274 Big_Blue_Wrecking_Crew said:

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In comment 11772164 santacruzom said: Quote: In comment 11772086 arcarsenal said: Quote: I still think Cleveland will be somewhat challenging for LeBron. I don't think they're just going to steamroll the East by any stretch. What?? You don't mean to say that the East's hapless teams won't be steamrolled by the following historic collection of talent: Kyrie Irving Matthew Dellasomething Carrick Felix Joe Harris Brendan Haywood THE Anthony Bennett Dwight Powell Tristan Thompson Anderson Varejao Dion Waiters Andrew Wiggins Lebron took alot lesser talent in both Cleveland (and arguably Miami last year with a broken down Wade and a bunch of spare parts) to the finals. This team if the young guys develop is likely better than Miami was last year and most definitely the Cleveland team he took to the finals.

Right, because he's that good. But the roster without him isn't some loaded destination that presented him with the easiest route to a championship.

However, I *do* think it presented him with some fun, appealing components. But then, the next thing you know people will be blasting him for wanting to have fun playing the game.

In comment 11772381 MetsAreBack said:

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In comment 11772021 kmed said: Quote: would be the same for Lebron James. As opposed to any other city in this country? It's not like Lebron couldnt nail the hottest girl / model in a bar in NYC... or LA... or Vegas.. or Dallas.. or Houston... so, stupid point, kmed

I think his point was that Lebron would experience a much different Miami than either you or I would.

In comment 11772026 dep026 said:

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Lived a cool ass life in Miami.

And Henrik Lundqvist lives a cool ass life in NYC
And Kobe and Shaq have apparently lived cool ass lives in LA
And Wilt Chamberlain lived a cool ass life everywhere he played

I get that Miami is a fun place to visit. So is Vegas - i guess that makes Vegas a "paradise" to live in?

As a US professional player i'd be kind of annoyed if its the kind of town where the day after you leave if you're walking the streets you'll hear more discussion about Brazil's world cup meltdown than you did about Lebron leaving. This fan base and city never deserved Lebron.

And Fuck Pat Riley

Wasn't even worth me trying to explain.

what Lebron can accomplish without even playing a game. He's already elevated Anthony Bennett and Dion Waiters from "bust" and "selfish headcase" to "promising young players".

People talk about how superstars can improve the players around them. Usually that's done on court. But Lebron is so powerful, he can get it done 3 months before tipoff.