NFT: Cavs now willing to include Wiggins in trade

In comment 11771490 hitdog42 said:

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love cant stay healthy, cant play defense, and wiggins looks the part out there, and would relieve defensive duties for lebron at times. i hope the cavs dont make this trade. it would be refreshing to see lebron lead the team of young cavs... now back to mercenary style...

He also happens to be the best rebounder on the planet, an excellent shooter, and one of the smartest offensive players in the NBA.

All your points are valid, but Love is a supreme talent over the players they have now, and he's only 26.

is nothing more than saying he's not going to eclipse Jordan in terms of legacy/perception. Everyone readily agrees he's an all timer. That's hardly a "no win situation" for an NBA career.

Funny to hear something framed as an "easy road" - when that something city hasnt won a title of any kind in 50 years and didnt sniff the playoffs in any of the 4 years Lebron was in South Beach. Just makes no sense.

And you cant be serious about owing Miami or Pat Riley a 'commitment' - I live down here and these fans dont deserve Lebron. Not that he was ever their's to begin with.

I'd say he played this perfectly - if he stays in Cleveland they are the Indiana Pacers/LA Clippers of recent years... fun to watch, competitive, out in the 2nd/3rd round every postseason and picking 20th-25th in the draft. By leaving they were able to accumulate assets and talent, now he comes back and will deliver a city its first title in most people's lifetimes.

that ever happened to Lebron was getting drafted by Cleveland. Set up some ludicrous expectations about what a fanbase deserves from a pro player.

In comment 11771470 chris r said:

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In comment 11771356 Chris in Philly said: Quote: by grown ass men to assign motives to every action the guy makes is bizarre. Especially fans of other teams who act like jilted lovers. I hope he defies the laws of physics and wins 100 rings just to shove it up everyone's ass. You seem to spend just about as much time defending him.

Let's count posts!

In comment 11771539 MetsAreBack said:

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Funny to hear something framed as an "easy road" - when that something city hasnt won a title of any kind in 50 years and didnt sniff the playoffs in any of the 4 years Lebron was in South Beach. Just makes no sense. And you cant be serious about owing Miami or Pat Riley a 'commitment' - I live down here and these fans dont deserve Lebron. Not that he was ever their's to begin with. I'd say he played this perfectly - if he stays in Cleveland they are the Indiana Pacers/LA Clippers of recent years... fun to watch, competitive, out in the 2nd/3rd round every postseason and picking 20th-25th in the draft. By leaving they were able to accumulate assets and talent, now he comes back and will deliver a city its first title in most people's lifetimes.

And they're still a young roster with no playoff experience. Irving and LeBron will have different peaks. They really only have one star and a lot of question marks outside of LeBron. If LeBron wanted to win a title over the next two years, his best bet may have been to stay in Miami with Bosh/Wade.

the "coming home" aspect is overplayed and this is just as much about winning as anything else. But at the same time, I really don't mind. The only reason people are complaining is because it's LeBron. Knicks fans here have been calling Carmelo a Top 5 player in the NBA.

Switch Melo and LeBron, and the Knicks and Cavs would be considered teams on roughly the same level. LeBron is simply that good. LeBron makes that much of a difference and it annoys people that he realizes that fact.

I also find the overrating of the Cavs roster laughable. People pretending like Waiters/Thompson/Bennett are anything special. Those are JAGs. Kyrie is an injury prone chucker who plays no D and who has caused locker room issues. He's basically Marbury 2.0 at this point. Kevin Love is a great player but he has never carried his teams to the playoffs and his awful play in clutch situations is a reason why. Plus, he plays absolutely no defense as well. Kyrie + Love is a very nice duo but those guys have so many question marks about them. The best defensive big on the roster would be Anderson Varajao who is a solid player but is ridiculously injury prone himself.


Kyrie/Love is a duo that plays absolutely no defense and has absolutely no playoff experience. They've also both dealt with injuries in the past and are far from iron men. So let's calm down on the Cavs hype. Switch LeBron with any player in the league besides Durant, and the Cavs probably aren't a title contender even with Love. LeBron's just that good and he knows it.

for nothing as a FA and keep Wiggins. That might be an amazingly talented team

In comment 11771573 xman said:

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for nothing as a FA and keep Wiggins. That might be an amazingly talented team

He is likely going to be traded and the team that gets him will likely have a leg up in keeping him.

a quick way to achieve glory

In comment 11771323 kmed said:

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The easiest path to a championship or the hardest path to a championship.

There's a third, apparently very difficult to see or understand option: he wants to play with other really good players, because playing with other really good players is really fun.

In comment 11771558 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:

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I also find the overrating of the Cavs roster laughable. People pretending like Waiters/Thompson/Bennett are anything special. Those are JAGs. Kyrie is an injury prone chucker who plays no D and who has caused locker room issues. He's basically Marbury 2.0 at this point. Kevin Love is a great player but he has never carried his teams to the playoffs and his awful play in clutch situations is a reason why. Plus, he plays absolutely no defense as well. Kyrie + Love is a very nice duo but those guys have so many question marks about them. The best defensive big on the roster would be Anderson Varajao who is a solid player but is ridiculously injury prone himself.

Right? People are acting like he's joining a roster with the talent and potential of, say, Portland. Or Phoenix. Or Golden State, or Memphis, or Washington. Hell, even though their 2013 season records were similar I think New Orleans' non-LeBron collection of talent dwarfs Cleveland's. And LeBron going to the freaking Cavs is somehow "the easy way out?"

rofl

And have lived in VA for some time. I rather you stuff a rake up my ass then go home at even a pay increase of 300%.

Cleveland /Akron/Whatever is a shit hole especially when you consider this guy lived in paradise, South Beach.

To each their own, but does he relish hanging out with his boyz from high school in the summer while on break or does his now $$ Mom rather hang in minus 20 fucking degree January Ohio because they had a past there...years ago.

Jesus Christ

i don't claim to know more than the next guy but I simply don't buy into the destiny of LeBron sacrificing for the good of home.

This ego-maniac will leave them high & dry after a min of two years as he simply can't help himself.

Folks, follow the $$$.

keep Wiggins. The Grantland article outlines the exact reasons why. Love is a weak defender, and has no experience in the postseason. What's the rush to make Wiggins available? Cleveland can wait a few months and see what they have in Wiggins. They have him on a cheap rookie deal, could offer multiple 1sts plus Bennett, Waiters, and Thompson. With those multiple picks and cheap, young talent, they have a better offer on the table than Golden St, because Minnesota would have to overpay to keep him. Wiggins needs some seasoning, but being around Lebron will probably expedite his learning curve. You have to figure that right off the bat, he's a good defender, rebounder, and will be a beast in transition. I wouldn't mind at all if he was a guy that only put up 12 a night. He can give Lebron a break from having to take on the best guy all the time on defense, and he's going to help out on the glass. For a guy on a rookie salary, I think he's going to provide a lot of value.

In comment 11771811 jc in c-ville said:

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And have lived in VA for some time. I rather you stuff a rake up my ass then go home at even a pay increase of 300%. Cleveland /Akron/Whatever is a shit hole especially when you consider this guy lived in paradise, South Beach. To each their own, but does he relish hanging out with his boyz from high school in the summer while on break or does his now $$ Mom rather hang in minus 20 fucking degree January Ohio because they had a past there...years ago. Jesus Christ i don't claim to know more than the next guy but I simply don't buy into the destiny of LeBron sacrificing for the good of home. This ego-maniac will leave them high & dry after a min of two years as he simply can't help himself. Folks, follow the $$$.

He actually spent a lot of time during off seasons in Akron, and continued to invest in the community. If you "follow the $$$", he's re-signing with Cleveland after 2 years, because the league will have a new CBA agreement following the heels of a mega TV deal.

Lebron didn't have the option of joining any team in the NBA. Lebron has been playing for a discount for a while now, he wanted his money(can't say I blame him), so that limited his options. So what were his options?

-Houston or another west coast team? That's a pretty hard road. You'd be battling San Antonio, Portland, Memphis, OKC and other good teams before you even got to the finals. Seems like A HARD ROAD.

-Miami? They just got obliterated in the finals and things aren't getting easier. Seems like A HARD ROAD.

Cleveland? A young ascending player in Irving that Lebron knows well. Just got the max and isn't going anywhere. Also have a ton of assets to get more pieces(hi kevin love) and some other young players who can only improve. Seems LIKE HIS EASIEST FUCKING ROAD!!

Don't forget the Sixers! They'll be loaded in two years. EASY ROAD baby!

he will go to philly when he opts out in two years because he had a summer house there in 2001. #goinghome

why this is such a leap of faith for people to make. Again... nobody is saying he's wrong for going back to Cleveland. I think we're just not dumb enough to believe it's the "going home" angle that did it for him. He can write 12 letters saying the same thing. Bottom line... if Cleveland's roster stunk and was cap strapped he doesn't even consider them.

To a third team. And I think the fact that it's his home AND they have many young assets and cap space plays in his favor. One without the other, he stays in Miami. The fact that he's from Akron plays in his favor heavily though. Was it the EASIEST road? I don't think so. Toronto could've made room and that would've easily been the best option. Derrick Rose is too big of a health risk to ever be seriously considered. Atlanta would've had a nice roster with him on the team.

But he only has two roads: Miami and Cleveland. Miami would've given him the best options to win within the next 3 years or so, and a much better chance than Cleveland's young roster, especially when Miami is able to get guys like Danny granger on vet min deals.

He took the road that gave him the better prospects of winning over the next 7-8 years as opposed to the next 2-3. Miami would've gone to the finals the next 2-3 years, which you can't say for Cleveland now for sure, with or without Love.

Which brings me to the Love argument. If they were to trade Wiggins for Love, they would be putting themselves in position to win within the next 4 years or so. There's a point where love peaks and his lack of defense catches up to him. The Cavs would have a much worse defensive team than Miami with love and Irving. LeBron can't be the only one playing defense. When everyone else fails to bring offense (look back to the Finals) they are going to need defense and not just LBJ throwing up 30 Ppg to keep pace with the western conference elite.

Wiggins will be an elite defender. Use that extra cap space you got from not having love and they can flip assets like Waiters and Bennett down the road for rim protectors and complimentary scorers to Lebron.

and running with it. It was the easiest road considering his options and desire to get paid. I don't even see how that's debateable. I'm not buying this going home crap.

that there's so much debate about this. Is it really that hard to believe that he'd been thinking about going home for a while and that CLE winning the draft lottery 3 times probably set the situation up so this would happen?

Who cares whether he would've gone back to CLE if the situation was worse? Everyone who hates Riley/Miami Heat fans can hopefully watch the best player of this generation without feeling rage every time.

I still feel rage because he joined a better team now and it will make it even harder for my team, the knicks, to win. I guess I should just be happy about that because of the feel good story of him bringing championships back home to his people that he left for to chase 6 rings in miami.

smashing my keyboard and screaming "I hate you Lebron!!!"

In comment 11771811 jc in c-ville said:

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when you consider this guy lived in paradise, South Beach.

I live in Miami. South Beach is a fun place to visit, but to live here = paradise? Umm, no.

would be the same for Lebron James.

Lived a lot as life in Miami.

A cool ass*

I'm just not naive enough to be sold this coming home crap as being this noble gesture of LeBron's big heart. Spare me that crap. He went for two reasons. 1) They could pay him and 2) They're a team on the way up and Miami is on the way down.

he went for those two reasons, who cares that Cleveland never would have even been considered if he weren't from there, those were the only two reasons clearly.

This is a guy who willingly lives in Akron, Ohio every off-season. He loves it there.

that provided refuge from the challenge that he created in Miami. There were no other options for him. Good for Lebron, he just gained so many new fans because they love the storyline of him going home and winning for those desperate fans that so deserve a championship.

In comment 11772034 MookGiants said:

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he went for those two reasons, who cares that Cleveland never would have even been considered if he weren't from there, those were the only two reasons clearly. This is a guy who willingly lives in Akron, Ohio every off-season. He loves it there.

You keep bringing this up as if anyone said otherwise.

the two reasons he went there were because of money and there roster. Never mentioned anything else.

What are you going to be like kmed and act as if this hasnt been talked about that it would eventually happen over the last 2-3 years? Read Wojo's article from 2 years ago. Everyone knew he was eventually going back, except for you and kmed I guess

Not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6......



Oh wait, this is harder than I thought....I'm going home to bring a championship to my people that deserve it!
Link - ( New Window )

of arguing this anymore?

In comment 11772045 MookGiants said:

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the two reasons he went there were because of money and there roster. Never mentioned anything else. What are you going to be like kmed and act as if this hasnt been talked about that it would eventually happen over the last 2-3 years? Read Wojo's article from 2 years ago. Everyone knew he was eventually going back, except for you and kmed I guess

I never denied what you said either though. I have always said the only place he'd ever leave Miami for is Cleveland because he'd be even more villified if he went anywhere else. However... he had a plan to win in excess of 5 or 6 titles in Miami, and he leaves the first chance he gets at least 4 titles too short. That doesn't happen if the Cavs have a shit roster. He would've reupped with Miami without giving the Cavs the time of day.

LeBron has been in a lose/lose situation ever since the decision when it comes to fan perception of him. 90% of my friends who are NBA fans rag on the guy for every single fucking thing he does. Either he went somewhere that it was "too easy" to win (I guess these guys should be deliberately searching for the most difficult scenarios possible), should have never left Cleveland (because clearly, after 7 years they were giving him such a great chance to win with Larry Hughes, Mo Williams and Antawn Jamison).. then he's greedy.. but not taking enough money... leaving Miami at the first sign of trouble (I guess he should just hang out there the rest of his career regardless of how much the team around him declines)

Anything the guy does is a problem for certain people. Jordan never would have gotten a cramp in an NBA finals game! Jordan never would have left his team! (No shit, he didn't have to)

It just is what it is. Some people will never let it go.

he said something crazy in a crowd full of Heat fans right after he signed that was his plan? Hilarious.

but I don't fit into that category at all. I didn't hate him for leaving Cleveland at all. I didn't hate him for doing his show. I didn't hate him for teaming up with his boys to try and win 7 titles. That being said, I'm not buying this going home crap.

Some people will defend Lebron no matter what and fall for the BS storylines. It is what it is, some people are just fanboys.

kmed.. the whole "going home" thing is definitely part PR spin to try and reclaim his "good guy" image from pre-Miami but it's just stuff that I don't even think matters. I pay no attention to it. I don't care why he went back there I just think from a basketball standpoint it made sense and there's probably some modicum of truth to the idea that he actually does like Cleveland. If they had a shitty team, I don't think he would have gone there but why should he have? The idea is to win, so. A guy in the prime of his career needs to go somewhere that it is feasible.

Some people seem to think LeBron should just go to the worst team in the league and win a chip on his own and that's the way to prove his greatness. It's just so silly.

Those who are upset at lebron will always be upset at him and those who have forgiven are not going to suddenly unforgive him.

No amount of debating will change peoples opinions on him. Period.

I saw a thread about a potential trade (wiggins for Love) that could be the most intriguing trade of our generation considering how high Wiggins ceiling is and just wanted to see the debate on that lol.

is sort of telling about his character. When he left Cleveland, he left with a challenge of winning a plethora of championships(7+ according to Lebron). He left Cleveland because they put a bad team around him and he didn't want to wait around for them to get better. They were contenders in cleveland, but clearly they were contenders because Lebron was on the team. It would have been a challenge to stay and win, but I understand why he left.

Then the whole madness of going to miami with the show and the introduction and all that garbage. As soon as that challenge looks tough. He bolts to "go home". It just so happens that home has 3 #1 draft picks in the past 4 years. They have Kyrie locked up to a max and a plethora of assets to add talent with Lebron(as well as future assets to add). I think it's lame that he ran from another challenge, this one that HE created.

him for going back. There is definitely some truth to the letter he wrote (who wouldn't want to win for their hometown team?), but I just think it's comical how people are treating this as some kind of redemption quest when it isn't anything of the sort. He's going to a younger, more talented team than the one he's leaving. It's the right move, but just don't tell me you're going home to redeem what you did 4 years ago. It's silly. You're going home because they give you the best chance to win in the near future.

but I am not a Lebron hater by any stretch. At least not any more than I hate every other star that has beaten, beats or will beat the Knicks. I am calling this situation for what it is and despite all the people that feel the need to defend Lebron because they always defend Lebron, do not pigeon hole me as some Lebron hater. I am not a hater at all.

In comment 11772058 MookGiants said:

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he said something crazy in a crowd full of Heat fans right after he signed that was his plan? Hilarious.

Right... hilarious to take a guy at his word.

Lebron took a 2 year contract so when his contract expires the Cavs better hope the cap goes up as much as they are saying because they are going to need cap space to resign Lebron....

they wont have his bird rights so if they are over the cap h ewont be able to get the max from Cavs....they better be very smart with their spending

after 2 years, did that change?

It's no different than Melo's "letter to the fans" about how he wants to ride or die for NY. No, he wanted to get paid the most money and that was his motivation. Nothing more. The rest is nonsense. If he could have made more elsewhere, he would have been gone.

I still think Cleveland will be somewhat challenging for LeBron. I don't think they're just going to steamroll the East by any stretch. Sure, it's a promising situation with room for huge potential but from his perspective it made a ton of sense.

I don't think we should really hold it against a player for wanting to win and put himself in the best situation to do so. Is that really worse than just taking the most money and maxing out even if it means not having much chance of a chip?

I think love is a no go for them. Soon Thompson and waiters will need to get paid or traded

In comment 11772084 kmed said:

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after 2 years, did that change?

Its 3 now