on Metsblog posted the rumour a few days ago. I would do Niese, D'arnaud and montero, or Niese, Plawecki and Syndergaard, i wouldn't give up both d'arnaud and syndergaard though.
I still think Tulowitzki is Aldersons White Whale and Ive heard from friends in Colorado that Jon Niese, Travis dArnaud and a top pitching prospect can get it done. But, well see
also suggested he heard Ike Davis for Ryan Braun was possible while Ike Davis for Aoki was not... he's a nice guy with a solid site but his trade rumor stuff is ALWAYS off.
There is a better chance the Brewers trade OF Ryan Braun for Mets 1B Ike Davis than deal OF Norichika Aoki, according to people familiar with the teams thinking.
DMM, What do you think it would take to get Tulowitzki.
I would say the Mets might actually be a good match for them from a pitching point of view. We have a few pitchers such as Montero/DeGrom/Wheeler who have performed well enough in harsh pitching environments (las vegas) to appeal to Colorado. Would something like Wheeler/Plawecki/Flores for Tulo get it done?
no idea what he would cost. I was just mentioning to my eyes this isn't even close to a real "rumor" (not at all knocking that it was posted). This is just talking head stuff. I'm sure 100% Thor and one of the catchers would be the starting point of any trade however.
some of the split has to do with playing at a home park rather than at the higher altitude. But I don't see any real source for this rumor, so let's not get worked up about it.
use that same package or similar and trade for Stanton.
Then hope the Blue Jays fall flat and give up their drive to compete in the AL East (though this is the year to do it) and in a salary dump they trade Reyes to the Mets.
Reyes is still owed at least 70M after this year.
Stanton and Reyes > Tulo and ? probably
Almost every player in baseball has better home #s then road #s
glad we have an expert who knows what package will land everyone.
Tulo is over 30 and owed over 120M and has proven he's a legit injury concern.
but you know for a fact what will land him and it's not a cost controlled middle to upper rotation starter cost controlled for 4 more years (Niese) and two top 20 prospects (Thor and TdA). If you say so.
Fangraphs just put out there top 50 players trade value list and Tulo was #6. He is underpaid by basically any standard, and is not even close to the end of his prime yet. He is easily one of the top 5 players in baseball and realistically the strong #2.
Shocker though that the fan of a team thinks they can get one of the best players in baseball for a good, but not great package, but then feel that maybe TULO is the guy not even worth the deal lol. This is what Fangraphs said about Tulo:
Quote:
For the most part, the top half of this list is full of guys whose trade value is basically unknowable, because theyre just too valuable to get traded. Guys this good, on contracts this reasonable, dont get moved. Depending on what the Rockies decide to do this winter, though, we might just find out what the trade value of the games second best player really is.
Its going to take a ridiculous haul to get him out of Colorado, though, and rightfully so. Even with $130 million left on his deal, Tulowitzki is making about a little more than half of his market value. As a six win player, Tulo is worth something in the range of $35 to $40 million to per year, so while he might not be cheap, hes still an amazing value, even while making $20 million per season.
Its legitimately difficult to imagine what a package for Tulowitzki might cost an acquiring team. Theres basically no such thing as an off-limits player in that kind of deal. If Colorado decides to move him, we might end up seeing baseballs version of the Herschel Walker trade.
Fangraphs just put out there top 50 players trade value list and Tulo was #6. He is underpaid by basically any standard, and is not even close to the end of his prime yet. He is easily one of the top 5 players in baseball and realistically the strong #2.
Shocker though that the fan of a team thinks they can get one of the best players in baseball for a good, but not great package, but then feel that maybe TULO is the guy not even worth the deal lol. This is what Fangraphs said about Tulo:
Quote:
For the most part, the top half of this list is full of guys whose trade value is basically unknowable, because theyre just too valuable to get traded. Guys this good, on contracts this reasonable, dont get moved. Depending on what the Rockies decide to do this winter, though, we might just find out what the trade value of the games second best player really is.
Its going to take a ridiculous haul to get him out of Colorado, though, and rightfully so. Even with $130 million left on his deal, Tulowitzki is making about a little more than half of his market value. As a six win player, Tulo is worth something in the range of $35 to $40 million to per year, so while he might not be cheap, hes still an amazing value, even while making $20 million per season.
Its legitimately difficult to imagine what a package for Tulowitzki might cost an acquiring team. Theres basically no such thing as an off-limits player in that kind of deal. If Colorado decides to move him, we might end up seeing baseballs version of the Herschel Walker trade.
Fan graphs top 10 - ( New Window )
He's not one of the top five players in baseball on any other team but Colorado.
But a tda, Neise and syndergarden is probably the best package any player on the trade market can expect to get. Name me one trade that has occurred since 95 that was as good as two top 20 prospects and an established pitcher under a team friendly contract with a sub 3 era. For purposes of this post I will still consider tda a prospect though he is officially no longer one.
RE: RE: Tulo is one of the top trade assets in baseball
Fangraphs just put out there top 50 players trade value list and Tulo was #6. He is underpaid by basically any standard, and is not even close to the end of his prime yet. He is easily one of the top 5 players in baseball and realistically the strong #2.
Shocker though that the fan of a team thinks they can get one of the best players in baseball for a good, but not great package, but then feel that maybe TULO is the guy not even worth the deal lol. This is what Fangraphs said about Tulo:
Quote:
For the most part, the top half of this list is full of guys whose trade value is basically unknowable, because theyre just too valuable to get traded. Guys this good, on contracts this reasonable, dont get moved. Depending on what the Rockies decide to do this winter, though, we might just find out what the trade value of the games second best player really is.
Its going to take a ridiculous haul to get him out of Colorado, though, and rightfully so. Even with $130 million left on his deal, Tulowitzki is making about a little more than half of his market value. As a six win player, Tulo is worth something in the range of $35 to $40 million to per year, so while he might not be cheap, hes still an amazing value, even while making $20 million per season.
Its legitimately difficult to imagine what a package for Tulowitzki might cost an acquiring team. Theres basically no such thing as an off-limits player in that kind of deal. If Colorado decides to move him, we might end up seeing baseballs version of the Herschel Walker trade.
Fan graphs top 10 - ( New Window )
He's not one of the top five players in baseball on any other team but Colorado.
As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about. Why should I be surprised?
the certainty with your post has everything to do with it.
Show me trade scenarios that yielded more than that.
Your precedent for claiming this package (Niese, Thor, TdA, + a prospect) would not yield a top 10 player?
Ken Griffey Jr in his prime didn't net more than the rumored (or made up) package mentioned here.
Not true- as the Mariners got Cameron coming off a 5.5 WAR season, the #16 prospect in baseball, and Brett Tomko, formerly a big prospect as well.
NEVER MIND the fact that Griffey was a rental and Tulo is signed until 2020 at a VERY under market contract. Tulos current trade value is easily higher then Griffeys was at the time.
Tulo being north of 30 and owed at least 120M , his deal is below market.
I think the fact he is signed for so much is a negative, not a positive, especially with his injury history or at best it's a neutral, not something weighing heavily in his favor as you indicate. If he was 25 sure, but he's over 30 before next season.
Also, Tomko was rated the #84 prospect in 1997 and was never on a prospect list after that. He was a back of the rotation starter.
Where are the deals you are using as a precedent as for what kind of deal will land Tulo?
Tulo being north of 30 and owed at least 120M , his deal is below market.
I think the fact he is signed for so much is a negative, not a positive, especially with his injury history or at best it's a neutral, not something weighing heavily in his favor as you indicate. If he was 25 sure, but he's over 30 before next season.
Also, Tomko was rated the #84 prospect in 1997 and was never on a prospect list after that. He was a back of the rotation starter.
Where are the deals you are using as a precedent as for what kind of deal will land Tulo?
Then you are wrong. For one, Tulo is south of 30(he's 29), and for two, he is getting paid WAY less then he would on the open market. He is making WAY less then Cano does, as an example, despite being a far superior player.
Cano entering his age 31 season, Cano signed a 10 year, 240 million dollar deal.
If Tulo was a free agent next season entering his age 30 season, he would easily eclipse that. Instead, you are getting him through 2020, when he will be 36.
He will be making 20 million a year until he is 35, when his salary goes down to a bargain 14MM AND there is a team option for 15MM for his age 36 season if he still is playing at a high level.
Compare that to Jose Reyes, who will be making 22 MM through his age 35 season, with a team option for 22MM for his age 36 season.
Fangraphs just put out there top 50 players trade value list and Tulo was #6. He is underpaid by basically any standard, and is not even close to the end of his prime yet. He is easily one of the top 5 players in baseball and realistically the strong #2.
Shocker though that the fan of a team thinks they can get one of the best players in baseball for a good, but not great package, but then feel that maybe TULO is the guy not even worth the deal lol. This is what Fangraphs said about Tulo:
Quote:
For the most part, the top half of this list is full of guys whose trade value is basically unknowable, because theyre just too valuable to get traded. Guys this good, on contracts this reasonable, dont get moved. Depending on what the Rockies decide to do this winter, though, we might just find out what the trade value of the games second best player really is.
Its going to take a ridiculous haul to get him out of Colorado, though, and rightfully so. Even with $130 million left on his deal, Tulowitzki is making about a little more than half of his market value. As a six win player, Tulo is worth something in the range of $35 to $40 million to per year, so while he might not be cheap, hes still an amazing value, even while making $20 million per season.
Its legitimately difficult to imagine what a package for Tulowitzki might cost an acquiring team. Theres basically no such thing as an off-limits player in that kind of deal. If Colorado decides to move him, we might end up seeing baseballs version of the Herschel Walker trade.
Fan graphs top 10 - ( New Window )
He's not one of the top five players in baseball on any other team but Colorado.
As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about. Why should I be surprised?
Every single stat you can find shows him to be significantly worse out of Colorado then in Colorado. His away stats are more indicative of a borderline top 30 player then a top 5 player. Given that the Mets and every other team in baseball DO NOT PLAY ONE MILE IN THE AIR, why in Gods green earth would you evaluate him using his Colorado stats? Its worse then dumb.
Tulo is a bargain compared to UFA prices. Hard to look at what Choo and Ellsbury got and think that Tulo @ 20 thru his mid 30s is not WAY below market.
Every single stat you can find shows him to be significantly worse out of Colorado then in Colorado. His away stats are more indicative of a borderline top 30 player then a top 5 player. Given that the Mets and every other team in baseball DO NOT PLAY ONE MILE IN THE AIR, why in Gods green earth would you evaluate him using his Colorado stats? Its worse then dumb.
Again, EVERY SINGLE PLAYER IN BASEBALL IS SIGNIFICANTLY WORSE ON THE ROAD THEN AT HOME. Whats worse then dumb is being woefully ignorant and then pretending as if you know anything, period. At least be yourself man and just accept you have no idea what you are talking about.
Tulo may have some slightly inflated Coors numbers but I don't think it's totally fair to just assume his road splits are the exact player he'd be on another team.
Small sample but he's had no problems hitting at Citi when he's been here as a visitor. Most guys will typically find an advantage at their home park.
RE: For those who feel Tulo's contract is a bargain
the Cano deal is a good one, Reyes signed a backloaded deal so he's a bad example.
You can't say because teams signed other players to terrible deals that Tulo is a bargain.
A contract like Evan Longoria is one i'd say is more of a bargain. Though he's a lesser player at a less prime position, still more of a bargain.
Also, you're not considering this is by a lot the best start Tulo has had to a season in his career - this would be textbook selling/buying high.
I still haven't seen the precedent you're using to estimate what it would take to acquire Tulo?
Longarias contract is better, but he is a far worse player. There really is no precedent for Tulo in a trade because there trading a top 5 player in all of baseball who is signed to an incredibly cheap contract for another 6 years has basically never happened.
players home road splits aren't an end all be all, and for most the home #'s are better regardless of park.
but...is there one example of a player who left Coors and even maintained his production? there might be, I just can't think of one.
Lets play a game here. Lets PRETEND that Tulo is an .820 OPS SS, and he will never hit better then an .820 OPS. How many SS's in baseball have a better then .820 OPS?
One, Hanley Ramirez, who also has a .906 home OPS and a .773 road OPS. He also happens to be a horrid defender, which Tulo isn't.
So even at an .820 OPS, Tulo is the best SS in baseball. How is that not a bargain?
how you can speak in absolutes about what it would take to acquire the player.
Answer: you can't.
yes, you can. If there is no precedent, and you are offering a mediocre package that many other teams can top, then its pretty easy to say that deal isn't enough. Unless you think a #3 starter, a 25 year old catcher with crazy injury history and no production, a top young pitching prospect but one who is having a horrid year in a terrible place to pitch and a "prospect" is worth a top 3 player in baseball on an incredibly cheap contract is a fair deal, in which case take off the mets underoos and be realistic.
would you say that an .820 OPS Tulo is a top 5 player in baseball?
Who cares, Tulo is not an .820 OPS player. Even by your dumb argument, Tulo as an .820 road player would be worth an additional 100 points OPS at home no matter WHERE he played. An .880 Tulo is most definitely a top 5 player in baseball.
can beat that, and of course other teams can beat it.
that wasn't the point.
You said that package won't land Tulo or Stanton.
A similar or worse package to that relatively speaking landed Miggy Cabrera and he was a top 5 player in baseball or top 10 at the worst, plus he was 24 years old and a better financial bargain that Tulo.
with such a difference home and away for their careers. You gave 2 examples earlier McCutcheon and Stanton and used this years stats, but when you look at their careers, there's not such a drastic difference home and away. Their home stats are slightly better, but nothing insane like Tulo. Same with other star players like Miggy. Same with a guy like Pujols. None have the drastic splits that Tulo has over their careers. I'd be very wary of trading major pieces for him. Plus he's very injury prone.
with such a difference home and away for their careers. You gave 2 examples earlier McCutcheon and Stanton and used this years stats, but when you look at their careers, there's not such a drastic difference home and away. Their home stats are slightly better, but nothing insane like Tulo. Same with other star players like Miggy. Same with a guy like Pujols. None have the drastic splits that Tulo has over their careers. I'd be very wary of trading major pieces for him. Plus he's very injury prone.
Tulo's last 3 year average is a .946 home ops and an .873 road ops. That is not a drastic split. Giancarlo's is .987 and .821.
Where is the drastic split? An .873 OPS with ++ glove at the most important position on D is a mega star. That's without any improvement in his home OPS, which happens to basically every player.
Matt kemp
Andre Ethier
Scott Van Slyke
Joc Pederson
Alex Guerrero
Let me know.
I'd avoid Kemp and Ethier like the plague, the others I'd be interested in, I like Guerrero more if he could play SS, I don't think that's realistic from what I've read.
with such a difference home and away for their careers. You gave 2 examples earlier McCutcheon and Stanton and used this years stats, but when you look at their careers, there's not such a drastic difference home and away. Their home stats are slightly better, but nothing insane like Tulo. Same with other star players like Miggy. Same with a guy like Pujols. None have the drastic splits that Tulo has over their careers. I'd be very wary of trading major pieces for him. Plus he's very injury prone.
Career 140 OPS is a big split. Havent dont a full analysis, but non-Rockies like Posada and Chipper were in the 80 range (I think 40 is standard, not sure). Teixeira is a robust 120, and Michael Young was 110, but both played in Arlington.
481 games at home- .323 BA/ .397 OBP/ .962 OPS
478 games on road- .275 BA/ .349 OBP/ .820 OPS
Pretty drastic if you ask me.
Stanton:
293 games at home- .282 BA/ .384 OBP/ .931 OPS
290 games on road- .259 BA/ .338 OBP/ .862 OPS
Because what he did in 2007 is not instructive to this discussion. 3 years is by far a large enough sample size to discuss what his true talent player level is.
Tulo's stats are inflated being at Coors, it's not even a question to me. Nobody else has splits like that and not everyone hits better at home, but the majority of players probably do. So if you look at his road numbers and improve them a bit. I think it's safe to assume that on a different team, Tulo would be:
Miggy is a 1019 hitter at Comerica though. 936 at Sun Life, which was a pitchers park. The thinking on Wright is that Citi totally screws with him (especially Citi 1.0).
MLB wide split this season is +23 OPS to the home team, and it was +21 home last year.
Tulo's stats are inflated being at Coors, it's not even a question to me. Nobody else has splits like that and not everyone hits better at home, but the majority of players probably do. So if you look at his road numbers and improve them a bit. I think it's safe to assume that on a different team, Tulo would be:
.295 BA/ .385 OBP/ .890 OPS type of player.
Maybe .295 with 20 HR's, 90 RBI
What you've just described is the best SS in baseball. Wow, what a horrible downside he has!
I'm trying to say that he would still be a great player outside of Coors, just not nearly the best hitter in baseball. He'd certainly be the best SS in baseball.
I'm trying to say that he would still be a great player outside of Coors, just not nearly the best hitter in baseball. He'd certainly be the best SS in baseball.
No one is saying he is the best hitter in baseball. Trout is the best everything in baseball.
Again, EVERY SINGLE PLAYER IN BASEBALL IS SIGNIFICANTLY WORSE ON THE ROAD THEN AT HOME. Whats worse then dumb is being woefully ignorant and then pretending as if you know anything, period. At least be yourself man and just accept you have no idea what you are talking about.
I am not really disagreeing with you regarding Tulo. I would absolutely want him and no matter where he plays, he's the best SS in baseball. All I am saying is that his numbers won't be anywhere near what they are now, they are def inflated due to the Coors factor.
I honestly cannot see a single team offering a better package than that. Now if you are asking me whether I would make that trade as the mets my answer is hell no.
I'd compare him offensively to Matt Holiday, but a SS. Whats that worth?
A lot. Look at the contract Granderson got to play OF at 33-36 based on a projection of probably high 700s OPS. Look at what Ellbury and Choo got. Cano ONLY got $25 million per, but they have to pay him that salary thru age 40.
If Tulo is expected to be an 8 WAR player, he's worth 60 million per season on the open market based on last year's payout of $7.5mm/WAR. 6 WAR he's still worth $45mm. Obviously no one is giving him that much because of things like injury risk and age-decline. But it's hard to argue that at $20mm for term that he's not a significant bargain wherever he plays, especially in a world where the TV revenue is just exploding.
Again, EVERY SINGLE PLAYER IN BASEBALL IS SIGNIFICANTLY WORSE ON THE ROAD THEN AT HOME. Whats worse then dumb is being woefully ignorant and then pretending as if you know anything, period. At least be yourself man and just accept you have no idea what you are talking about.
Every player is significantly worse on the road then home. Tulo is not that much worse on the road then he is at home, and the #s presented back me up on that. A 3 year sample size is more instructive then career stats, as Tulo might have been more of a product of Coors Field when he was 25 then he is now. Players improve, so to imply that what he did as a rookie is equally relevant to what he did last year would simply be false.
I honestly cannot see a single team offering a better package than that. Now if you are asking me whether I would make that trade as the mets my answer is hell no.
Is that because you aren't familiar with other teams farm systems?
The Red Sox can't beat that offer? The Astros can't beat that offer? The Pirates can't beat that offer? The Cubs can't beat that offer? The Twins can't beat that offer? The Royals can't beat that offer? The Rangers can't beat that offer?
And if the Mets COULD make that deal and don't, then they deserve to be as awful as they have been.
Bautista was a guy that exploded out of nowhere. He wasn't close to the same player after. Gomez is a young player that finally found a groove. Tulo was a stud 7 years ago. There's no reason not to look at his splits from then to now.
Even still, the splits are the splits regardless of overall production. Bautista's splits shouldn't be much different then than they are now, just at a smaller scale.
it's dumb to argue at this point. We agree regarding Tulo. I believe that he has drastic splits which are abnormal to the rest of baseball, you don't. We both agree that no matter where he plays, he's the best SS in baseball and on the open market he should and would command a contract similar to Cano's.
that he was in 2008. If we were discussing that, you'd have a point. We are discussing his splits home and away. He was in Coors 6 years ago for half his games, it should absolutely be factored into his splits.
I'd say on the open market, he should be compared to Cano, no question.
I'd value Tulo more than Cano due to position, but just taking them as equals, Tulo has a MUCH better contract. He is cheaper and doesnt saddle you with any late 30s seasons unlike Cano.
I think you misunderstood my point(or I didn't explain it well). I'm saying IF Tulo was a FA right now, he'd be looking at a contract similar to what Cano just got.
RE: I'm not suggesting that Tulo is the player now
that he was in 2008. If we were discussing that, you'd have a point. We are discussing his splits home and away. He was in Coors 6 years ago for half his games, it should absolutely be factored into his splits.
But if he's not the same player, then how is it relevant?
Anyway, we're in agreement in the big picture so we can leave it at that(for once lol).
He's a better player now, but it's all relative. It's not like Bautista who is a completely different player. He's just gotten better as he's gotten older, like most do. It's all relative regarding the splits. The OPS might be lower then, but the difference should be the same. Sorry, couldn't resist explaining myself.
but that just meant Bautista had more room for overall improvement. when you are already a 5+ WAR player, its harder to find places for improvement. Maybe for Tulo its being a better road hitter.
And really- if you look at this career, this year is his worst road OPS since his first 2 seasons in the league. .850 is his lowest road OPS over the past 6 season besides this season.
Every off season is different and all it takes is one idiot GM to offer the moon for a position that they desperately need. Does it mean that player is "worth" that $$ or does it mean that the GM had to go above and beyond just to sign that player?
Cano? Nobody was offering anything close to the Mariners contract.
Granderson? Mets were desperate and had to offer more than everyone else.
Reyes?
Any FA the Yankees sign?
I wouldn't do it but that's a damn strong package for Tulo. You are buying on the idea that he will put up the same numbers in a Mets uniform than he does in a Rockies uniform. And it just won't happen. Plus, you'll have to pay another player $20 million per year and hope he has stats as good as David Wright.
Not that I wouldn't want him on the Mets, but I'm not crazy about giving up all that for a guy with inflated stats and that will be on the wrong side of 30 next year.
Since when is $120 million over six years "not a big contract" or "extremely reasonable?"
The $24 million Cano makes is WAY more than the $20 million that Tulo makes? Lolwut?
When Tulo signed his contract it was the eight highest contract in baseball history...so, spare me with the underpaid bullshit. I'm not exactly going to go crazy comparing him with Cano's contract when that idiot Seattle GM got desperate and decided to pay him $60 million more than the next highest bid.
Since when is $120 million over six years "not a big contract" or "extremely reasonable?"
The $24 million Cano makes is WAY more than the $20 million that Tulo makes? Lolwut?
When Tulo signed his contract it was the eight highest contract in baseball history...so, spare me with the underpaid bullshit. I'm not exactly going to go crazy comparing him with Cano's contract when that idiot Seattle GM got desperate and decided to pay him $60 million more than the next highest bid.
You literally have zero clue of what you are talking about. Less then zero. This is what Dave Cameron said about Tulos deal:
"Its going to take a ridiculous haul to get him out of Colorado, though, and rightfully so. Even with $130 million left on his deal, Tulowitzki is making about a little more than half of his market value. As a six win player, Tulo is worth something in the range of $35 to $40 million to per year, so while he might not be cheap, hes still an amazing value, even while making $20 million per season."
He's signed only through his age 35 season, when he will still be a productive player. The length and per year of the deal is a bargain.
Since when is $120 million over six years "not a big contract" or "extremely reasonable?"
The $24 million Cano makes is WAY more than the $20 million that Tulo makes? Lolwut?
When Tulo signed his contract it was the eight highest contract in baseball history...so, spare me with the underpaid bullshit. I'm not exactly going to go crazy comparing him with Cano's contract when that idiot Seattle GM got desperate and decided to pay him $60 million more than the next highest bid.
You literally have zero clue of what you are talking about. Less then zero. This is what Dave Cameron said about Tulos deal:
"Its going to take a ridiculous haul to get him out of Colorado, though, and rightfully so. Even with $130 million left on his deal, Tulowitzki is making about a little more than half of his market value. As a six win player, Tulo is worth something in the range of $35 to $40 million to per year, so while he might not be cheap, hes still an amazing value, even while making $20 million per season."
He's signed only through his age 35 season, when he will still be a productive player. The length and per year of the deal is a bargain.
LOL, okay Chuck.
I'm interested in how Tulo is worth $35 to $40 million per year when there is not one player earning anything close to that...now or ever. And he's not a 6 win player...not this year and not since 2010 (unless you count his 5.9 WAR in 2011...but then we are just splitting hairs, so I'll give you that one).
And, of course this guy has a crystal ball and shares your love of absolutes by saying that he'll still be a productive player at age 35. Could he be? Sure. But 6 years a long time away for an injury prone player. That's a big leap of a statement.
I wonder what all those players with a higher WAR are worth? $50 million per year?
but not a deal i'd do if I was the Mets. Value-wise it isn't enough but risk-wise it is too much. Tulo can't stay healthy and that isn't going to change.
keeping him means giving him an extension then "keeping" him is moronic. Who cares about 2014? They are winning a WS? You either extend him (or intend to) or you deal him when his value couldn't be higher (pennant race with 1.5 years remaining, with multiple teams looking for offensive help). Keeping him to "make a run" in 2014 is truly moronic. They have Flores/Herrera. Zero issue extending Murphy, zero issue trading Murphy, MASSIVE issue keeping him to "make a run" in 2014.
if the Mets are playing reasonably well, even if they have no intention of signing him long term. They want to chase attendance revenue badly. Hope I'm wrong.
seems like a crazy amount to walk away from. Yeah maybe he goes to UCLA and pitches amazingly for 3 years and gets more (the draft numbers obviously will slide up) or maybe he goes the JC route and is great but it's a year of development lost, 5 million he may never see. Lots of sad stories (Harrington comes to mind). 5 million is a huge sum. Hope it works out for him.
keeping him means giving him an extension then "keeping" him is moronic. Who cares about 2014? They are winning a WS? You either extend him (or intend to) or you deal him when his value couldn't be higher (pennant race with 1.5 years remaining, with multiple teams looking for offensive help). Keeping him to "make a run" in 2014 is truly moronic. They have Flores/Herrera. Zero issue extending Murphy, zero issue trading Murphy, MASSIVE issue keeping him to "make a run" in 2014.
keep him and try to extend him before next season if not trade him in off season
keeping him means giving him an extension then "keeping" him is moronic. Who cares about 2014? They are winning a WS? You either extend him (or intend to) or you deal him when his value couldn't be higher (pennant race with 1.5 years remaining, with multiple teams looking for offensive help). Keeping him to "make a run" in 2014 is truly moronic. They have Flores/Herrera. Zero issue extending Murphy, zero issue trading Murphy, MASSIVE issue keeping him to "make a run" in 2014.
keep him and try to extend him before next season if not trade him in off season
that's assuming we keep playing as we were prior to break. Speaking of breaks how was yours?
re Murphy, extend him or trade him. Im more in the trade him camp -- between Flores, Herrera, Reynolds, and all the SS prospects we have, we have very good organizational depth capable of manning 2b. Not super excited about paying him into his mid 30s, nor getting crappy compensation when he's the 3rd best UFA who signs with LAD/LAA/NYY after 2015.
As for Aiken, that's crazy ballsy. He needs to be a top 5 pick (3??) to make that 5 million back. He should call up Matt Harrington, the Rockies' #7 overall pick in 2000, who was a 2nd rounder in 2001, then out of the top 10 rounds in 2002 and 2003, and now changes tires at Costco. He passed on $5 million too.
went to Colorado and fell in love with the state. I'm not a winter sports guy so I'm not sure if it would be the place for me year round but awesome state, cool people, tons to do. Oddly saw a lot of people in Mets stuff (ok maybe like 3 but still weird lol) met a Mets fan from... Utah!
if I was Gm. If I was able to add a substantial piece for either LF or SS long term id move him but if im only adding ok pieces in those spots I may keep him
The trading Murphy debate has been beaten to death already
nothing good can come from saying these kind of things.
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Niese disputed the thesis that Mets fans show an abundance of loyalty.
How can you say that? Niese said. We are not filling the stadium. Where are the Mets fans when we are down-and-out? They were here in 06 and 07 when we were really good, but we have struggled and they are not coming to the stadium.
I read the ESPN article that actually reported this, and wasnt "offended":
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"What do I think of Met fans?" Niese said with a laugh. "That's a good question. I really don't know except they want their team to win, pretty much like any other fan. That is pretty much all I know."
When it was pointed out to him that Mets fans have stuck with their team through a lot of bad times, Niese questioned the sentiment.
"How can you say that?" Niese said. "We are not filling the stadium. Where are the Mets fans when we are down-and-out? They were here in '06 and '07 when we were really good, but we have struggled and they are not coming to the stadium."
The Mets drew 4 million in their final season at Shea in 2008. This year, they may not top 2013's 2.1 million.
He was pushed on the point and chooses not to ignore reality. Have we Mets fans stuck around? Some have, some havent. That's obvious. Revenues are way down -- I'd argue correctly, since the Coupons cut spending. So should Niese send the bosses the message that everything is a-okay? Link - ( New Window )
the fans have not supported the team as they did when the Mets were winning games and in contention. The player is not about to question his boss, however, so it's easy to point and say the fans are fickle because they only show up when the team wins.
I read that the Mets have the 3rd best ratings this year. NYY and DET are 1 and 2. LAD ratings have tanked since apparently only a third of households in LA get the Dodgers' channel.
I think it's pretty Amazin' that the Mets are #3 in ratings when we're nearly eliminated by the ASG and are suffering clear fan abuse. Mets are lucky to have the fan base they have.
Frankly, I'm really uninterested in moving Wheeler. Definitely not with Syndergaard. There are other guys I'd rather include to pump up the value of the package.
http://metsblog.com/page/2/ - ( New Window )
Aoki was letter traded for... Will Smith
I would say the Mets might actually be a good match for them from a pitching point of view. We have a few pitchers such as Montero/DeGrom/Wheeler who have performed well enough in harsh pitching environments (las vegas) to appeal to Colorado. Would something like Wheeler/Plawecki/Flores for Tulo get it done?
.275 BA
At Citi, he is a guy who hits .280 with 20 HR. Very good numbers for a SS but not the powerhouse hitter that everybody sees in Colorado.
.275 BA
At Citi, he is a guy who hits .280 with 20 HR. Very good numbers for a SS but not the powerhouse hitter that everybody sees in Colorado.
Well if you want to extrapolate his career #s at Citi, he's on about a 63 HR pace. Career 1.368 OPS in New Shea.
Then hope the Blue Jays fall flat and give up their drive to compete in the AL East (though this is the year to do it) and in a salary dump they trade Reyes to the Mets.
Reyes is still owed at least 70M after this year.
Stanton and Reyes > Tulo and ? probably
Andrew McCutchen has a 1.097 home OPS and an .887 away.
Neither of those guys are SS's or really even plus defenders.
Tulo is one of the 5 best players in baseball. His ONLY knock is injuries.
Tulo is over 30 and owed over 120M and has proven he's a legit injury concern.
but you know for a fact what will land him and it's not a cost controlled middle to upper rotation starter cost controlled for 4 more years (Niese) and two top 20 prospects (Thor and TdA). If you say so.
Ok, thanks for your OPINION.
Shocker though that the fan of a team thinks they can get one of the best players in baseball for a good, but not great package, but then feel that maybe TULO is the guy not even worth the deal lol. This is what Fangraphs said about Tulo:
Its going to take a ridiculous haul to get him out of Colorado, though, and rightfully so. Even with $130 million left on his deal, Tulowitzki is making about a little more than half of his market value. As a six win player, Tulo is worth something in the range of $35 to $40 million to per year, so while he might not be cheap, hes still an amazing value, even while making $20 million per season.
Its legitimately difficult to imagine what a package for Tulowitzki might cost an acquiring team. Theres basically no such thing as an off-limits player in that kind of deal. If Colorado decides to move him, we might end up seeing baseballs version of the Herschel Walker trade.
Fan graphs top 10 - ( New Window )
Shocker though that the fan of a team thinks they can get one of the best players in baseball for a good, but not great package, but then feel that maybe TULO is the guy not even worth the deal lol. This is what Fangraphs said about Tulo:
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For the most part, the top half of this list is full of guys whose trade value is basically unknowable, because theyre just too valuable to get traded. Guys this good, on contracts this reasonable, dont get moved. Depending on what the Rockies decide to do this winter, though, we might just find out what the trade value of the games second best player really is.
Its going to take a ridiculous haul to get him out of Colorado, though, and rightfully so. Even with $130 million left on his deal, Tulowitzki is making about a little more than half of his market value. As a six win player, Tulo is worth something in the range of $35 to $40 million to per year, so while he might not be cheap, hes still an amazing value, even while making $20 million per season.
Its legitimately difficult to imagine what a package for Tulowitzki might cost an acquiring team. Theres basically no such thing as an off-limits player in that kind of deal. If Colorado decides to move him, we might end up seeing baseballs version of the Herschel Walker trade.
Fan graphs top 10 - ( New Window )
He's not one of the top five players in baseball on any other team but Colorado.
the certainty with your post has everything to do with it.
Show me trade scenarios that yielded more than that.
Your precedent for claiming this package (Niese, Thor, TdA, + a prospect) would not yield a top 10 player?
Ken Griffey Jr in his prime didn't net more than the rumored (or made up) package mentioned here.
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Fangraphs just put out there top 50 players trade value list and Tulo was #6. He is underpaid by basically any standard, and is not even close to the end of his prime yet. He is easily one of the top 5 players in baseball and realistically the strong #2.
Shocker though that the fan of a team thinks they can get one of the best players in baseball for a good, but not great package, but then feel that maybe TULO is the guy not even worth the deal lol. This is what Fangraphs said about Tulo:
Quote:
For the most part, the top half of this list is full of guys whose trade value is basically unknowable, because theyre just too valuable to get traded. Guys this good, on contracts this reasonable, dont get moved. Depending on what the Rockies decide to do this winter, though, we might just find out what the trade value of the games second best player really is.
Its going to take a ridiculous haul to get him out of Colorado, though, and rightfully so. Even with $130 million left on his deal, Tulowitzki is making about a little more than half of his market value. As a six win player, Tulo is worth something in the range of $35 to $40 million to per year, so while he might not be cheap, hes still an amazing value, even while making $20 million per season.
Its legitimately difficult to imagine what a package for Tulowitzki might cost an acquiring team. Theres basically no such thing as an off-limits player in that kind of deal. If Colorado decides to move him, we might end up seeing baseballs version of the Herschel Walker trade.
Fan graphs top 10 - ( New Window )
He's not one of the top five players in baseball on any other team but Colorado.
As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about. Why should I be surprised?
Rockies have the second worst record in the NL, no? Are you looking at old standings?\
the certainty with your post has everything to do with it.
Show me trade scenarios that yielded more than that.
Your precedent for claiming this package (Niese, Thor, TdA, + a prospect) would not yield a top 10 player?
Ken Griffey Jr in his prime didn't net more than the rumored (or made up) package mentioned here.
Not true- as the Mariners got Cameron coming off a 5.5 WAR season, the #16 prospect in baseball, and Brett Tomko, formerly a big prospect as well.
NEVER MIND the fact that Griffey was a rental and Tulo is signed until 2020 at a VERY under market contract. Tulos current trade value is easily higher then Griffeys was at the time.
I think the fact he is signed for so much is a negative, not a positive, especially with his injury history or at best it's a neutral, not something weighing heavily in his favor as you indicate. If he was 25 sure, but he's over 30 before next season.
Also, Tomko was rated the #84 prospect in 1997 and was never on a prospect list after that. He was a back of the rotation starter.
Where are the deals you are using as a precedent as for what kind of deal will land Tulo?
I think the fact he is signed for so much is a negative, not a positive, especially with his injury history or at best it's a neutral, not something weighing heavily in his favor as you indicate. If he was 25 sure, but he's over 30 before next season.
Also, Tomko was rated the #84 prospect in 1997 and was never on a prospect list after that. He was a back of the rotation starter.
Where are the deals you are using as a precedent as for what kind of deal will land Tulo?
Then you are wrong. For one, Tulo is south of 30(he's 29), and for two, he is getting paid WAY less then he would on the open market. He is making WAY less then Cano does, as an example, despite being a far superior player.
Cano entering his age 31 season, Cano signed a 10 year, 240 million dollar deal.
If Tulo was a free agent next season entering his age 30 season, he would easily eclipse that. Instead, you are getting him through 2020, when he will be 36.
He will be making 20 million a year until he is 35, when his salary goes down to a bargain 14MM AND there is a team option for 15MM for his age 36 season if he still is playing at a high level.
Compare that to Jose Reyes, who will be making 22 MM through his age 35 season, with a team option for 22MM for his age 36 season.
Tulo is a BARGAIN.
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In comment 11772304 Sgrcts said:
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Fangraphs just put out there top 50 players trade value list and Tulo was #6. He is underpaid by basically any standard, and is not even close to the end of his prime yet. He is easily one of the top 5 players in baseball and realistically the strong #2.
Shocker though that the fan of a team thinks they can get one of the best players in baseball for a good, but not great package, but then feel that maybe TULO is the guy not even worth the deal lol. This is what Fangraphs said about Tulo:
Quote:
For the most part, the top half of this list is full of guys whose trade value is basically unknowable, because theyre just too valuable to get traded. Guys this good, on contracts this reasonable, dont get moved. Depending on what the Rockies decide to do this winter, though, we might just find out what the trade value of the games second best player really is.
Its going to take a ridiculous haul to get him out of Colorado, though, and rightfully so. Even with $130 million left on his deal, Tulowitzki is making about a little more than half of his market value. As a six win player, Tulo is worth something in the range of $35 to $40 million to per year, so while he might not be cheap, hes still an amazing value, even while making $20 million per season.
Its legitimately difficult to imagine what a package for Tulowitzki might cost an acquiring team. Theres basically no such thing as an off-limits player in that kind of deal. If Colorado decides to move him, we might end up seeing baseballs version of the Herschel Walker trade.
Fan graphs top 10 - ( New Window )
He's not one of the top five players in baseball on any other team but Colorado.
As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about. Why should I be surprised?
Every single stat you can find shows him to be significantly worse out of Colorado then in Colorado. His away stats are more indicative of a borderline top 30 player then a top 5 player. Given that the Mets and every other team in baseball DO NOT PLAY ONE MILE IN THE AIR, why in Gods green earth would you evaluate him using his Colorado stats? Its worse then dumb.
You can't say because teams signed other players to terrible deals that Tulo is a bargain.
A contract like Evan Longoria is one i'd say is more of a bargain. Though he's a lesser player at a less prime position, still more of a bargain.
Also, you're not considering this is by a lot the best start Tulo has had to a season in his career - this would be textbook selling/buying high.
I still haven't seen the precedent you're using to estimate what it would take to acquire Tulo?
Every single stat you can find shows him to be significantly worse out of Colorado then in Colorado. His away stats are more indicative of a borderline top 30 player then a top 5 player. Given that the Mets and every other team in baseball DO NOT PLAY ONE MILE IN THE AIR, why in Gods green earth would you evaluate him using his Colorado stats? Its worse then dumb.
Again, EVERY SINGLE PLAYER IN BASEBALL IS SIGNIFICANTLY WORSE ON THE ROAD THEN AT HOME. Whats worse then dumb is being woefully ignorant and then pretending as if you know anything, period. At least be yourself man and just accept you have no idea what you are talking about.
Small sample but he's had no problems hitting at Citi when he's been here as a visitor. Most guys will typically find an advantage at their home park.
This is not true, at least not that I've heard or can find on the google.
but...is there one example of a player who left Coors and even maintained his production? there might be, I just can't think of one.
You can't say because teams signed other players to terrible deals that Tulo is a bargain.
A contract like Evan Longoria is one i'd say is more of a bargain. Though he's a lesser player at a less prime position, still more of a bargain.
Also, you're not considering this is by a lot the best start Tulo has had to a season in his career - this would be textbook selling/buying high.
I still haven't seen the precedent you're using to estimate what it would take to acquire Tulo?
Longarias contract is better, but he is a far worse player. There really is no precedent for Tulo in a trade because there trading a top 5 player in all of baseball who is signed to an incredibly cheap contract for another 6 years has basically never happened.
Answer: you can't.
but...is there one example of a player who left Coors and even maintained his production? there might be, I just can't think of one.
There's probably not a long list of players putting up the numbers he does that left in the middle of their career from there, so.. hard to tell.
Helton spent his entire career there. I can't think of anyone else who could fit similar criteria.
but...is there one example of a player who left Coors and even maintained his production? there might be, I just can't think of one.
Lets play a game here. Lets PRETEND that Tulo is an .820 OPS SS, and he will never hit better then an .820 OPS. How many SS's in baseball have a better then .820 OPS?
One, Hanley Ramirez, who also has a .906 home OPS and a .773 road OPS. He also happens to be a horrid defender, which Tulo isn't.
So even at an .820 OPS, Tulo is the best SS in baseball. How is that not a bargain?
I was wrong there.
so many of these contract I feel like will be regretted (Ryan Howard 25M holy crap, Joe Mauer 23M the next 3 years, holy crap.
I was still thinking 20M is sort of the pinnacle.
I guess it's not.
It was a part of my argument, small part anyway.
Still think you have no way to know what the package of players would need to look like to land Tulo.
Answer: you can't.
yes, you can. If there is no precedent, and you are offering a mediocre package that many other teams can top, then its pretty easy to say that deal isn't enough. Unless you think a #3 starter, a 25 year old catcher with crazy injury history and no production, a top young pitching prospect but one who is having a horrid year in a terrible place to pitch and a "prospect" is worth a top 3 player in baseball on an incredibly cheap contract is a fair deal, in which case take off the mets underoos and be realistic.
Who cares, Tulo is not an .820 OPS player. Even by your dumb argument, Tulo as an .820 road player would be worth an additional 100 points OPS at home no matter WHERE he played. An .880 Tulo is most definitely a top 5 player in baseball.
@Ken_Rosenthal
Sources: #Braves cutting ties with Uggla.
Instead of how you said it, try:
A lefty mid-to upper rotation starter cost controlled through 2019
A 25 year old, who is the consensus #1 catching prospect in all of baseball
a 21-year old top 15 pitching prospect with a upper 90's fastball and a "hook from hell"
+ a prospect
sounds fair.
Instead of how you said it, try:
A lefty mid-to upper rotation starter cost controlled through 2019
A 25 year old, who is the consensus #1 catching prospect in all of baseball
a 21-year old top 15 pitching prospect with a upper 90's fastball and a "hook from hell"
+ a prospect
sounds fair.
TDA is not the consensus #1 catching prospect in baseball, and his value is heading in the wrong direction.
Niese is a #3 pitcher. He's not better then that and he's not worse then that.
Thor is a stud pitching prospect.
Are you implying that many teams in baseball can't beat that package? Hell, the mets can beat that package.
that wasn't the point.
You said that package won't land Tulo or Stanton.
A similar or worse package to that relatively speaking landed Miggy Cabrera and he was a top 5 player in baseball or top 10 at the worst, plus he was 24 years old and a better financial bargain that Tulo.
Matt kemp
Andre Ethier
Scott Van Slyke
Joc Pederson
Alex Guerrero
Let me know.
Tulo's last 3 year average is a .946 home ops and an .873 road ops. That is not a drastic split. Giancarlo's is .987 and .821.
Where is the drastic split? An .873 OPS with ++ glove at the most important position on D is a mega star. That's without any improvement in his home OPS, which happens to basically every player.
Matt kemp
Andre Ethier
Scott Van Slyke
Joc Pederson
Alex Guerrero
Let me know.
I'd avoid Kemp and Ethier like the plague, the others I'd be interested in, I like Guerrero more if he could play SS, I don't think that's realistic from what I've read.
Career 140 OPS is a big split. Havent dont a full analysis, but non-Rockies like Posada and Chipper were in the 80 range (I think 40 is standard, not sure). Teixeira is a robust 120, and Michael Young was 110, but both played in Arlington.
Over his career which has been in Colorado...
481 games at home- .323 BA/ .397 OBP/ .962 OPS
478 games on road- .275 BA/ .349 OBP/ .820 OPS
Pretty drastic if you ask me.
Stanton:
293 games at home- .282 BA/ .384 OBP/ .931 OPS
290 games on road- .259 BA/ .338 OBP/ .862 OPS
Over his career which has been in Colorado...
481 games at home- .323 BA/ .397 OBP/ .962 OPS
478 games on road- .275 BA/ .349 OBP/ .820 OPS
Pretty drastic if you ask me.
Stanton:
293 games at home- .282 BA/ .384 OBP/ .931 OPS
290 games on road- .259 BA/ .338 OBP/ .862 OPS
Because what he did in 2007 is not instructive to this discussion. 3 years is by far a large enough sample size to discuss what his true talent player level is.
878 games at home- .327 BA/ .407 OBP/ .986 OPS
872 games on road- .313 BA/ .388 OBP/ .942 OPS
McCutchen:
416 games at home- .315 BA/ .402 OBP/ .924 OPS
411 games on road- .284 BA/ .369 OBP/ .844 OPS
David Wright:
731 games at home- .301 BA/ .390 OBP/ .895 OPS
731 games on road- .299 BA/ .370 OBP/ .867 OPS
Ryan Braun:
513 games at home- .309 BA/ .378 OPB/ .954 OPS
504 games on road- .313 BA/ .367 OBP/ .912 OPS
Robinson Cano:
725 games at home- .307 BA/ .353 OBP/ .856 OPS
740 games on road- .314 BA/ .362 OBP/ .862 OPS
So, you were saying?
.295 BA/ .385 OBP/ .890 OPS type of player.
Maybe .295 with 20 HR's, 90 RBI
MLB wide split this season is +23 OPS to the home team, and it was +21 home last year.
.295 BA/ .385 OBP/ .890 OPS type of player.
Maybe .295 with 20 HR's, 90 RBI
What you've just described is the best SS in baseball. Wow, what a horrible downside he has!
Matt Holiday as a SS is an 8 WAR player. AKA the best SS in baseball and one of the top 5 players in the sport.
No one is saying he is the best hitter in baseball. Trout is the best everything in baseball.
Again, EVERY SINGLE PLAYER IN BASEBALL IS SIGNIFICANTLY WORSE ON THE ROAD THEN AT HOME. Whats worse then dumb is being woefully ignorant and then pretending as if you know anything, period. At least be yourself man and just accept you have no idea what you are talking about.
A lot. Look at the contract Granderson got to play OF at 33-36 based on a projection of probably high 700s OPS. Look at what Ellbury and Choo got. Cano ONLY got $25 million per, but they have to pay him that salary thru age 40.
If Tulo is expected to be an 8 WAR player, he's worth 60 million per season on the open market based on last year's payout of $7.5mm/WAR. 6 WAR he's still worth $45mm. Obviously no one is giving him that much because of things like injury risk and age-decline. But it's hard to argue that at $20mm for term that he's not a significant bargain wherever he plays, especially in a world where the TV revenue is just exploding.
Again, EVERY SINGLE PLAYER IN BASEBALL IS SIGNIFICANTLY WORSE ON THE ROAD THEN AT HOME. Whats worse then dumb is being woefully ignorant and then pretending as if you know anything, period. At least be yourself man and just accept you have no idea what you are talking about.
Every player is significantly worse on the road then home. Tulo is not that much worse on the road then he is at home, and the #s presented back me up on that. A 3 year sample size is more instructive then career stats, as Tulo might have been more of a product of Coors Field when he was 25 then he is now. Players improve, so to imply that what he did as a rookie is equally relevant to what he did last year would simply be false.
Is that because you aren't familiar with other teams farm systems?
The Red Sox can't beat that offer? The Astros can't beat that offer? The Pirates can't beat that offer? The Cubs can't beat that offer? The Twins can't beat that offer? The Royals can't beat that offer? The Rangers can't beat that offer?
And if the Mets COULD make that deal and don't, then they deserve to be as awful as they have been.
Either way, it's pointless because he's a stud no matter where he plays.
Either way, it's pointless because he's a stud no matter where he plays.
OK So should we judge Jose Bautista as a player based on who he is now or who he was then? Carlos Gomez? Alex Gordon? Adam Jones?
Even still, the splits are the splits regardless of overall production. Bautista's splits shouldn't be much different then than they are now, just at a smaller scale.
I'd value Tulo more than Cano due to position, but just taking them as equals, Tulo has a MUCH better contract. He is cheaper and doesnt saddle you with any late 30s seasons unlike Cano.
But if he's not the same player, then how is it relevant?
Anyway, we're in agreement in the big picture so we can leave it at that(for once lol).
And really- if you look at this career, this year is his worst road OPS since his first 2 seasons in the league. .850 is his lowest road OPS over the past 6 season besides this season.
Cano? Nobody was offering anything close to the Mariners contract.
Granderson? Mets were desperate and had to offer more than everyone else.
Reyes?
Any FA the Yankees sign?
I wouldn't do it but that's a damn strong package for Tulo. You are buying on the idea that he will put up the same numbers in a Mets uniform than he does in a Rockies uniform. And it just won't happen. Plus, you'll have to pay another player $20 million per year and hope he has stats as good as David Wright.
Not that I wouldn't want him on the Mets, but I'm not crazy about giving up all that for a guy with inflated stats and that will be on the wrong side of 30 next year.
Its not a big contract, its an extremely reasonable one.
The $24 million Cano makes is WAY more than the $20 million that Tulo makes? Lolwut?
When Tulo signed his contract it was the eight highest contract in baseball history...so, spare me with the underpaid bullshit. I'm not exactly going to go crazy comparing him with Cano's contract when that idiot Seattle GM got desperate and decided to pay him $60 million more than the next highest bid.
The $24 million Cano makes is WAY more than the $20 million that Tulo makes? Lolwut?
When Tulo signed his contract it was the eight highest contract in baseball history...so, spare me with the underpaid bullshit. I'm not exactly going to go crazy comparing him with Cano's contract when that idiot Seattle GM got desperate and decided to pay him $60 million more than the next highest bid.
You literally have zero clue of what you are talking about. Less then zero. This is what Dave Cameron said about Tulos deal:
"Its going to take a ridiculous haul to get him out of Colorado, though, and rightfully so. Even with $130 million left on his deal, Tulowitzki is making about a little more than half of his market value. As a six win player, Tulo is worth something in the range of $35 to $40 million to per year, so while he might not be cheap, hes still an amazing value, even while making $20 million per season."
He's signed only through his age 35 season, when he will still be a productive player. The length and per year of the deal is a bargain.
Cano is owed 240 million through his age 40 season.
how are the two deals comparable in terms of value?
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Since when is $120 million over six years "not a big contract" or "extremely reasonable?"
The $24 million Cano makes is WAY more than the $20 million that Tulo makes? Lolwut?
When Tulo signed his contract it was the eight highest contract in baseball history...so, spare me with the underpaid bullshit. I'm not exactly going to go crazy comparing him with Cano's contract when that idiot Seattle GM got desperate and decided to pay him $60 million more than the next highest bid.
You literally have zero clue of what you are talking about. Less then zero. This is what Dave Cameron said about Tulos deal:
"Its going to take a ridiculous haul to get him out of Colorado, though, and rightfully so. Even with $130 million left on his deal, Tulowitzki is making about a little more than half of his market value. As a six win player, Tulo is worth something in the range of $35 to $40 million to per year, so while he might not be cheap, hes still an amazing value, even while making $20 million per season."
He's signed only through his age 35 season, when he will still be a productive player. The length and per year of the deal is a bargain.
LOL, okay Chuck.
I'm interested in how Tulo is worth $35 to $40 million per year when there is not one player earning anything close to that...now or ever. And he's not a 6 win player...not this year and not since 2010 (unless you count his 5.9 WAR in 2011...but then we are just splitting hairs, so I'll give you that one).
And, of course this guy has a crystal ball and shares your love of absolutes by saying that he'll still be a productive player at age 35. Could he be? Sure. But 6 years a long time away for an injury prone player. That's a big leap of a statement.
I wonder what all those players with a higher WAR are worth? $50 million per year?
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unless we can pull out a 6-4 or better roadtrip then keeping him and trying to win is the play
keep him and try to extend him before next season if not trade him in off season
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keeping him means giving him an extension then "keeping" him is moronic. Who cares about 2014? They are winning a WS? You either extend him (or intend to) or you deal him when his value couldn't be higher (pennant race with 1.5 years remaining, with multiple teams looking for offensive help). Keeping him to "make a run" in 2014 is truly moronic. They have Flores/Herrera. Zero issue extending Murphy, zero issue trading Murphy, MASSIVE issue keeping him to "make a run" in 2014.
keep him and try to extend him before next season if not trade him in off season
that's assuming we keep playing as we were prior to break. Speaking of breaks how was yours?
As for Aiken, that's crazy ballsy. He needs to be a top 5 pick (3??) to make that 5 million back. He should call up Matt Harrington, the Rockies' #7 overall pick in 2000, who was a 2nd rounder in 2001, then out of the top 10 rounds in 2002 and 2003, and now changes tires at Costco. He passed on $5 million too.
How can you say that? Niese said. We are not filling the stadium. Where are the Mets fans when we are down-and-out? They were here in 06 and 07 when we were really good, but we have struggled and they are not coming to the stadium.
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When it was pointed out to him that Mets fans have stuck with their team through a lot of bad times, Niese questioned the sentiment.
"How can you say that?" Niese said. "We are not filling the stadium. Where are the Mets fans when we are down-and-out? They were here in '06 and '07 when we were really good, but we have struggled and they are not coming to the stadium."
The Mets drew 4 million in their final season at Shea in 2008. This year, they may not top 2013's 2.1 million.
He was pushed on the point and chooses not to ignore reality. Have we Mets fans stuck around? Some have, some havent. That's obvious. Revenues are way down -- I'd argue correctly, since the Coupons cut spending. So should Niese send the bosses the message that everything is a-okay?
Link - ( New Window )
I think it's pretty Amazin' that the Mets are #3 in ratings when we're nearly eliminated by the ASG and are suffering clear fan abuse. Mets are lucky to have the fan base they have.
In other news, I started a game thread.
game thread - ( New Window )