We can use Stat to land a big name player in a trade. Obviously I'm not saying Stat's value but because of his high price tag. Or do we just let him play the year out and keep our fingers crossed we land one of the top FA next off-season?
since Jackson has basically said that we have a lot of guards and the roster needs to be balanced out. Curious to see if we can pull of anything for any of them, not sure what kind of value they have.
I don't see any reason to trade STAT. All the good FA's are off the market, so the motivation for cap relief isn't there anymore. And we aren't going to blow our cap space for next season, so who that we could fetch for STAT that is also on a one year deal would have higher upside than him? When healthy he is still a beast offensively. And in the triangle we could see him get even better with his elbow and post opportunities. Not to mention, he could get back to some pick n roll too, which was always his bread and butter. But had virtually been eliminated from our offense due to the fact it was the ONLY thing that stiff Chandler could do on offense.
like Larkin, so I'm not advocating trading him but it's not that uncommon in the NBA to hear "trade agreed to but can't be consummated until..." because of the different deadlines/rules they have. My guess is Phil isn't going out of his way to deal Shane Larkin, rather... they have G depth and he's seeing what is out there for what the Knicks have. I personally think Shumpert is overrated by most Knicks fans and that Smith has a very solid chance of bouncing back but Phil Jackson knows a lot more than I do about basketball.
Ilyasova is a perfect compliment to Melo and the triangle. He can adequately guard 4s at 6'10, rebounds well and his shooting provides spacing. Other than Marc Gasol, I don't think there's enough talent next summer to force a max offer. Ilyasova only makes 2mm more than JR.
was a FA after this year id be ok with it, but he is going to make 8 mill next year. Not sure why we want to trade for a guy coming off a bad year making 8 mill next year.
Whoever we trade id much rather just get back an expiring and a young guy or a pick. Other then backup SF there really is not a lot of minutes right now so id rather not add some guy who you are going to want to try to play 20+ minutes a night.
Id like to trade shumpert for a pick or a young player who is not ready for minutes right now but has upside (and is cost controlled), that would help balance out the roster. If you keep shump he has to play otherwise you are destroying what little value he has left, so if you move him for a guy not ready it would help greatly with the minute distribution.
affect our ability to offer a 2nd max (or close to max) next summer?
Ilyasova is scheduled to make 7.9 million in the 15 season, and has a team option of 8.4 for 2016.
Assuming the roster does not change at all, and the Knicks pick up Larkin and Hardaway's options for 2015, the Knicks would have 38,412,124 against the cap before adding Ilyasova's salary.
This year the cap is $63m. Everybody assumes the 2015 cap will be at around 70m.
depending on the team. You would just have to be able to structure the deal to be two separate trades if you wanted to combine him with another player. That said i think its more likely that we just end up making a one for one type trade since i dont see us trading 2 players off the roster right now.
actually always like Ilyasova (and I think he bounces back this year, he shot absolutely horrendously to begin the year for whatever the reason but played much, much better second half before getting hurt (50% from the field, 7 boards, still didn't shoot well from 3 like he normally does) but yeah I think he makes too much money coming off a bad year to commit to him like that. He's a good youngish player but he doesn't really have the upside to truly outplay his contract. Even if you really like him... the upside is what? 15 and 8? Nice player but I don't see Phil committing to something like that.
of helping this team next year as Illyasova does. And to be honest im not really that excited bout handing the two spot to Shumpert/THJR. Shump was brutal for a lot of last season and as much as id love it i dont think THJR is ready for 30+ minutes a night. But i guess that really is me just saying id rather trade shump then JR. Plus i think there is at least a 50% chance JR opts out, there will be a good amount of teams with capspace next year and i can easily see JR getting a better deal then the 1 year for 6 mill he has left.
where I saw it but apparently Tyler is far from a lock from making the roster. Maybe it's Phil trying to light a fire and/or doesn't view him as a good fit. I hope he makes it.
Looking to trade sanders halfway through the year? I'd rather have Sanders at 11 mil a year than going after Marc gasol for the max. He is a tremendous rim protector and rebounder, albeit he has off the court issues. Could do something like STAT for Sanders and Delfino
The Knicks have 14 guaranteed contracts without Tyler, and his contract becomes guaranteed on 9/15. If they want to ass a 3 without unloading a contract like Ellington's (doubtful), there just isn't any room for Tyler. He gets $100,000 on 9/15 if they don't guarantee, and Tyler would have to accept a D-league assignment until a slot opens up via trade or injury.
Even if they invite a 3 like Meta to camp on a trial basis, it's a problem for Tyler, because there isn't any slot for Meta if Tyler is already signed.
Isola had an article in today's NY Daily news that the Knicks Â
are bringing in Dahntay Jones for a work out. Says he also has one w/the Sixers but would prefer to be w/Knicks due to his friendship w/Melo. He's 33 & coming off an injury but plays excellent D. If they were to bring him in, it would certainly give credence to the rumor & more specifically,Shump.
Phil is not going to take anyone who is signed beyond this year Â
I don't see any reason to trade STAT. All the good FA's are off the market, so the motivation for cap relief isn't there anymore. And we aren't going to blow our cap space for next season, so who that we could fetch for STAT that is also on a one year deal would have higher upside than him? When healthy he is still a beast offensively. And in the triangle we could see him get even better with his elbow and post opportunities. Not to mention, he could get back to some pick n roll too, which was always his bread and butter. But had virtually been eliminated from our offense due to the fact it was the ONLY thing that stiff Chandler could do on offense.
Greg Monroe and Eric Bledsoe still out there not saying i want them but they are two good free agents at a crossroads in their career
I don't doubt that they're trying to clear the logjam at the guard position, but they had two teams interested in Shump at the deadline and they declined to move him...and it seems like they'd be better off letting Larkin establish some value before putting him back on the block.
when I get the alerts it just says "report" or "sources" but apparently it's from Ian Begley.
Working to clear the logjam in the backcourt, the Knicks are discussing their potential trade options with guards J.R. Smith, Iman Shumpert and Shane Larkin, a league source said Sunday.
“They’re working on trying to make a move in the backcourt,” the NBA source familiar with the Knicks’ thinking said Sunday.
regarding this topic in another thread. I don't understand why some people do that. Same with the new yankee thread. Theres a whole thread discussing the state of the yankees and it was still active. Adding another thread breaks up the 2 conversations and makes no sense. rant over.
RE: RE: Phil is not going to take anyone who is signed beyond this year Â
worthy in free agency next year so why waste our expiring contracts that could be coveted by teams looking to get rid of long term deals (let.g. Larry sanders)?
to move Shumpert last deadline means absolutely nothing given 1. Phil is here now, wasn't then 2. The roster is different now.
it was reported in multiple places that Phil was advising them at the deadline. And while the roster is different now the only real difference at the two guard position is Ellington.
RE: RE: RE: Phil is not going to take anyone who is signed beyond this year Â
advising them doesn't mean everything he said was taken as the final decision. We also don't know what happened in the negotiations, for all we know the Knicks simply didn't get what they asked for, not "we don't want to trade him". Roster makeup doesn't have to mean adding more 2 guards. It can mean more impressed with THJr., less impressed with Shumpert, wanting a roster spot for X. I think it's pretty safe to suggest the Knicks have shopped Shumpert in the past and I believe they likely are willing to deal him.
Time to start your daily threads easier to follow. This way it's on page one and with all the Giant activity coming up its one stop shopping. Great job as usual.
They really should trade one of THJ, Smith and Shump Â
You can't split the minutes between them effectively at the 2 and none of them are 3's. They all deserve starter/second team minutes and they can't play well on the floor at the same time. Phil sees that. Between that obvious truth and the growing logjam in the roster, I really think there will be a deal before camp.
So it's Shumpert's MUCH-needed defense even if it is for only one year or JR's offensive dynamic, which comes along with his hard-partying/stupid on-the-court and off-the-court tendencies.
obviously like THjr. but hopefully that is just bluster. He's a nice young player but he's not a special talent and quite honestly he needs to improve his rebounding/defense quite a bit. I wouldn't deal him without it being a really nice return but "loving" him seems like a bit much.
you think he's Ray Allen (obviously Ray Allen does more than just shoot), how many "shooters" would you deem as untouchable? Gotta learn to do more than just knock down the 3 ball and be a solid finisher.
advising them doesn't mean everything he said was taken as the final decision. We also don't know what happened in the negotiations, for all we know the Knicks simply didn't get what they asked for, not "we don't want to trade him". Roster makeup doesn't have to mean adding more 2 guards. It can mean more impressed with THJr., less impressed with Shumpert, wanting a roster spot for X. I think it's pretty safe to suggest the Knicks have shopped Shumpert in the past and I believe they likely are willing to deal him.
Phil was hired like 3 weeks after the deadline. Most reasonable people would agree Phil had a ton of sway over what they were doing leading up to that. And nobody said Shump ever was or is untouchable. Obviously if somebody blew them away with an offer he'd be gone a long time ago. But I do think there's a guys who Phil would move in heartbeat (Amare, Bargs, JR) and guys who he sees as potentially part of the future.
As much as I think he brings a lot of intangibles Â
I think Phil Jackson is just leaking this to see what he could get around the league for these guys. I'm not sure if he's 100% sold on getting rid of these guys if he won't get enough. Wishful thinking on my part, maybe.
is "untouchable" in the sense they feel he's an asset who is GOING to develop and thus become a better asset both on the court and in negotiations. I don't think they feel that way about the other two, although I do think Larkin has more value in the Knicks eyes right now than Shumpert does.
I don't like about Shumpert is he's shown zero growth as a player. I get that he's missed time but where has his game evolved for the positive? The only hope is that Woodson's tough handling of him hurt his confidence a bit, otherwise other than being a former 1st rounder who at times is a plus defender there isn't a whole lot to point to and go "well he's improved in x area".
isnt really "untouchable". Im sure he is just the one that they are least likely to move and wont be moving him unless they are getting a great player back. Which is what they should be doing, he is cost controlled with a ton of upside.
you think he's Ray Allen (obviously Ray Allen does more than just shoot), how many "shooters" would you deem as untouchable? Gotta learn to do more than just knock down the 3 ball and be a solid finisher.
Fair point. Also, Hardaway has a bit more trouble creating his shot, whereas JR is quite good at it. But JR is a way better sharpshooter.
I said to Eric privately, what is encouraging about THjr is he's a talented player who is humble and seemingly realizes he needs to be more well rounded. I get the opposite impression from Shumpert. I get the feeling he thinks he is a better player than he is and that he's simply been slighted.
point. He should be the one to go. His D has regressed and his offense has been horrible. He is an average at best shooter and all he does is take jump shots. Sure he can fill a role on a team, but with JR/THJR we just dont need him. Yes he is the best guard defender we have, but the D i have seen from him does not make me think he should play over either JR or THJR.
it just always seems to be some excuse. Its the injury, its playing small forward, its the coach, blah blah blah. As ive said i dont want to give him up for nothing, but if you can get a first for him id make the move. Odds are he wont be a knick after this year anyway. Either he plays like crap again and we dont want him or he plays ok and some team gives him some dumb like 3/18 type deal which would be a huge overpay.
present day defense is absolutely overrated. As a rookie (maybe the knee is the issue, maybe he's not as hungry... being a big time defensive wing takes a special kind of mental effort vs. being a scorer) he showed flashes of defensive dominance but people talk about him like he's Bruce Bowen/Tony Allen good and he simply is not/hasn't been that in quite a while.
he was taught at a young age professionalism and working every day to get better...I remember when he got drafted they talked about how hard Tim Hardaway SR was on him in high school to get him away from being entitled to what he has and feeling like he didnt have to work for it..He grew up in an NBA family so he knows what it takes...
I also could see Prigs being moved...i really dont see him as a fit in th triangle...he is not going to cut through and hit back door lay ups and things like that...at this point he is who he is...I think you can get away with JR or one of the SGs playing spot minutes as the 3rd point..
THJr. has done a good amount of driving to the rim Â
This Summer League. He doesn't look like Tony Parker at the rim, but at least he's capable of getting there and making something happen.
His bread and butter will always be his jump shot, but if he can incorporate any kind of driving to the paint into his offensive game then that would be huge for him and the Knicks.
rebounding and creativity from THJR as well. He averaged 5 rebounds as a senior in college. I'd like to see more of that. I do like his skills as a scorer, but I want to see more from the other parts of his game.
issue moving forward. He looks like a very good shooter and has shown the ability to get into the lane and also to finish well on breaks, but he has to be able to do a bit more of the other things. Rebounds and assists have to go up at least a bit, he basically didnt give you anything except scoring. Now there isnt a ton wrong with that, but if you want to be a very good player you can just score (unless you are a top 10 type scorer which im sure none of us think he is).
And even in the games where he played well offensively it was because he was hitting his threes. He is no where near a good enough shooter to live and die with the 3 and that is pretty much what he does. Almost any game that he has put up a strong point total is because he happened to shoot the ball well that game from 3.
on what we saw is making a mistake. It's been well documented to this point that there was no defensive system and everyone was on a different page. Woodson routinely played Shump at the 3 despite his strength being that he defends guards better than anyone on the roster. I'm not suggesting that he's some untradable asset, but I am refuting what most on bbi keep saying. Shump's value is way too low and he's much better than what we saw last year. He's the only one that can make a difference on defense and he's proven that his defensive skills are disruptive.
what are his offensive strengths? Below average shooter and finisher, below average handle for a 1/2 and nondescript passer (I'd argue below average given his pattern of putting his head down, driving and then getting caught in no man's land).
I just find it weird that you see it that way for Shump Â
Not a good ball handler(not terrible, but not good enough to play the 1. Maybe in the triangle he can though). Not a great shooter, but has shown some flashes of touch. Sort of depressing that he's such a bad finisher because he's extremely athletic and gets to the rim easily, just can't finish.
RE: I just find it weird that you see it that way for Shump Â
It's funny, in my "real life" circles, I'm not considered a massive Shump fan. My brother is a massive Shump fan and he would argue that he's got Wade potential all the time. I'd always argue that he's nuts because Shump has limited offensive game. I don't remember reading that on bbi though.
Its a comforting feeling to believe that Jackson will not rush into Â
still think that one game/stretch in a game Wade had vs. the Knicks a few years ago was one of the most ridiculously dominant things I've ever seen in the NBA.
I don't even understand what "being a loser" means Â
Iman Shumpert has gotten progressively worse every single season. It's not that he's improved slightly, or just plateaued. He's gotten worse as a basketball player.
If we're going to blame this on his psyche, than he's more of a "loser" than JR Smith ever was. At least JR Smith will try and play through his rough stretches. Iman Shumpert refused to do anything offensively.
Iman Shumpert's FG% was .378 with 26.5 minutes per game. That is beyond awful.
He's young, it's to be expected. Also, saying Iman has gotten progressively worse is disingenuous. He had a major knee injury that destroyed his 2nd season and had a terrible 3rd season. He was awesome as a rookie, dominated in the playoffs(defensively) and then was again very good in the playoffs 2 years ago after coming back quickly from the ACL. Last year was a disaster.
JR Smith is a loser and because you are a huge fan, you don't want to ackowledge that. Whenever you need to count on him, he comes up small. He's been in the NBA for a long time now and he's proven over and over again that he's unreliable.
suggesting JR tried playing through his rough stretches is a joke. He barely tried for half the season last year. He's a head case and it effected his effort which is something that we never saw from Shump. I hate guys that won't try because they are upset.
JR Smith's defense is lightyears ahead of Iman's offense, but that's not even doing JR Smith justice. Last year, there was no real gap between either of their defenses.
Nonetheless, Iman Shumpert has shown terrific on ball defense. But that's half the battle, he's still a piss poor off ball defender. So we're keeping a guy that has zero offensive game whatsoever, below average off ball defending, but occasional terrific on ball defender over JR Smith? No thanks.
or finishing. I do think he has a nice stroke and could become a decent enough shooter, but he will never be a good offensive player. If he can be adequate though, that works with his defensive tenacity. I wonder if he can play the 1 in the triangle or if defenses would just sag off of him because he can't shoot?
But doesn't fly for JR. Yeah, Iman's was more severe...there's no doubt about that. But it's not even acknowledged that JR Smith had surgery done in the offseason.
we will see. I'd guess that Shump has more value to Phil Jackson than you are giving him credit for. If there was a demand for JR, he'd be traded already, but I'd bet most teams don't want anything to do with him as of now.
you are kidding right?? Iman missed most of the season 2 years ago. There's no excuse. When you aren't on the floor, you shouldn't be considered regressing. He came back in like 6 months from ACL reconstruction and it def took him some time to get into the swing of things. By the playoffs, he was back to being Iman. You are the one who says he got progressively worse every year. So when a guy is hurt and not playing, he should be considered worse? Got it.
I just don't believe in any universe that he is more valuable to this team than JR Smith is. It's not even close.
As I said before. I think Zen Master leaked this so he could gauge JRs/Shumps/Larkins value and see what he could get. I don't think he's in a rush to get rid of one of them.
we will see. I'd guess that Shump has more value to Phil Jackson than you are giving him credit for. If there was a demand for JR, he'd be traded already, but I'd bet most teams don't want anything to do with him as of now.
Couldn't he also guess that JR Smith has more value to Phil Jackson than you are giving him credit for?
I am a JR hater, but mostly because I think he's a Â
But what has he done this past season to show that it was the injury that held him back? He was worse this season than he was when he got back from surgery. That should speak volumes.
Also, JR Smith looked pretty good during the tail end of this season.
I do know that you need to be a really good 3Pt shooter. Not sure he can be that. Maybe he can. His lack of a handle would be ok if the knicks have someone else to bring the ball up the floor.
You don't need to be a 10 assist guy to succeed as a point in the triangle (just look at his coach) but you do need to see the floor and make the right pass. I just don't see that from Shump.
In my mind, you can't have him play the point. So they need to move Smith or Shump and my personal preference is Smith because I just can't imagine counting on the guy and he clears space for next year. And I also don't want to only have Smith or THJ to guard scoring 2 guards.
I believe the PG just needs to get the ball up the floor Â
and set up the offense with an easy pass. He doesn't need to be a drive and dish sort of guy, he just needs to get the ball inside if he can and then spread the floor. It might not work if they can sag off of him.
RE: I am a JR hater, but mostly because I think he's a Â
loser that should never have a big role on a good team. JR has much more talent than Shump, but it's not that simple.
Sure, it's not that simple when we're just talking about talent. But it's very simple when you gauge how productive each guy has been while on the Knicks. It's not close.
I just think Shumpert is still getting hometown bias. I remember last year there were fools who didn't want to give up Iman fucking Shumpert for Rondo.
need to move someone or risk hurting everyones value. There are not enough minutes to go around, even if you want to give the 3 SG's the 10-15 minutes of backup SF. Im on the record as thinking that shump's value is only going to go down, but that is 100% true if he doesnt play. I dont think either shump or JR have much value which is why they are both on the team. I expect them to both be on the team at the start of camp just because i dont think PHil will give them away. Not sure how it will work, but thats my guess.
deserves to be on that list too. He was a major reason we sucked early in the year. He was much better after he was benched and decided to start caring.
in the triangle? If you are referrign to anything I've said, and I've never come close to saying that, all I have said is that his value will go up because last year was a clusterf*ck. I believe JR's value will go up too for the same reasons, but only one of their values CAN go up because there aren't enough minutes for the both of them.
I was mostly commenting on Beer Fridge's comment (no knock at all). Just saying if Phil thought he could be a solid triangle PG I really doubt he'd be shopping him.
You don't need to be a 10 assist guy to succeed as a point in the triangle (just look at his coach) but you do need to see the floor and make the right pass. I just don't see that from Shump.
Shump at the 1 was kmed's idea. The knicks had tried him Â
there in the past, so it's not out of the realm of possibility, especially with the Triangle somewhat de-emphasizing the position. I still don't think it's a great idea.
And I'd say Phil probably has made offers where he'd part with Smith or Shump depending on who might want whom. I'd still rather he move Smith because who needs that BS.
I was more thinking out loud than suggesting it as a good idea. Â
I think Shump can handle the duties except for the whole space the floor out, but then again, how is that different as a 2 guard in the triangle? Shumps handle isn't terrible by any stretch, at least not in this sort of offense. His handle is well below par if he needs to beat his guy off the dribble, but that's not needed in this offense. He can bring the ball up and set up the offense in the triangle, but then we wouldn't have the minutes for Larkin which is no different than the glut at the 2.
argue he's below average overall with the ball in his hand for a 1/2. Passing + ballhanding+ decision making = below average vs. other 1/2's in my view.
we would not be in such a great cap situation next year and beyond. Unfortunately, while both talent upgrades, neither really fits what we need to be doing, IMO.
I thought it was the other way around. lol
Whoever we trade id much rather just get back an expiring and a young guy or a pick. Other then backup SF there really is not a lot of minutes right now so id rather not add some guy who you are going to want to try to play 20+ minutes a night.
Id like to trade shumpert for a pick or a young player who is not ready for minutes right now but has upside (and is cost controlled), that would help balance out the roster. If you keep shump he has to play otherwise you are destroying what little value he has left, so if you move him for a guy not ready it would help greatly with the minute distribution.
Ilyasova is scheduled to make 7.9 million in the 15 season, and has a team option of 8.4 for 2016.
Assuming the roster does not change at all, and the Knicks pick up Larkin and Hardaway's options for 2015, the Knicks would have 38,412,124 against the cap before adding Ilyasova's salary.
This year the cap is $63m. Everybody assumes the 2015 cap will be at around 70m.
Even if they invite a 3 like Meta to camp on a trial basis, it's a problem for Tyler, because there isn't any slot for Meta if Tyler is already signed.
It's not going to happen.
Greg Monroe and Eric Bledsoe still out there not saying i want them but they are two good free agents at a crossroads in their career
It's not going to happen.
you would have said the same thing the day before the Calderon trade.
Working to clear the logjam in the backcourt, the Knicks are discussing their potential trade options with guards J.R. Smith, Iman Shumpert and Shane Larkin, a league source said Sunday.
“They’re working on trying to make a move in the backcourt,” the NBA source familiar with the Knicks’ thinking said Sunday.
Quote:
so, all these fantasy trades for guys with contracts that extend beyond 2014-5 are completely moot.
It's not going to happen.
you would have said the same thing the day before the Calderon trade.
Maybe. But the Knicks had a desperate need for a PG. None of their other needs are at that level.
it was reported in multiple places that Phil was advising them at the deadline. And while the roster is different now the only real difference at the two guard position is Ellington.
Quote:
In comment 11774298 oipolloi said:
Quote:
so, all these fantasy trades for guys with contracts that extend beyond 2014-5 are completely moot.
It's not going to happen.
you would have said the same thing the day before the Calderon trade.
Maybe. But the Knicks had a desperate need for a PG. None of their other needs are at that level.
we have MAJOR needs at center and whatever forward position Melo doesn't play.
As well they should. He has the potential to be an absolutely lethal shooter
Phil was hired like 3 weeks after the deadline. Most reasonable people would agree Phil had a ton of sway over what they were doing leading up to that. And nobody said Shump ever was or is untouchable. Obviously if somebody blew them away with an offer he'd be gone a long time ago. But I do think there's a guys who Phil would move in heartbeat (Amare, Bargs, JR) and guys who he sees as potentially part of the future.
Fair point. Also, Hardaway has a bit more trouble creating his shot, whereas JR is quite good at it. But JR is a way better sharpshooter.
I also could see Prigs being moved...i really dont see him as a fit in th triangle...he is not going to cut through and hit back door lay ups and things like that...at this point he is who he is...I think you can get away with JR or one of the SGs playing spot minutes as the 3rd point..
His bread and butter will always be his jump shot, but if he can incorporate any kind of driving to the paint into his offensive game then that would be huge for him and the Knicks.
and he takes to many gambles on defense which leads to him getting beat off the dribble...
Makes you think they are close to a deal to send out a guard or 2 orit tells you waht Phil thinks of Tyler...
the biggest problem was that we didnt play him enough in those series.
literally every time he came in the game we went on runs and he made spectacular offensive and defensive plays
he even hit clutch 3s
last year there was a pox on this team and i can give him a pass.
i think its worth seeing if he can be that player again under phil and fish
And even in the games where he played well offensively it was because he was hitting his threes. He is no where near a good enough shooter to live and die with the 3 and that is pretty much what he does. Almost any game that he has put up a strong point total is because he happened to shoot the ball well that game from 3.
then he gets a bit revved up and gets some open 3s.
last year woodsen abandoned any pretense of a defense.
its not hard to imagine a defensive guy losing motivation and his offense suffering as a result
Again. JR has a long history of being a loser with 2 years ago being the aberration.
If we're going to blame this on his psyche, than he's more of a "loser" than JR Smith ever was. At least JR Smith will try and play through his rough stretches. Iman Shumpert refused to do anything offensively.
Iman Shumpert's FG% was .378 with 26.5 minutes per game. That is beyond awful.
JR Smith is a loser and because you are a huge fan, you don't want to ackowledge that. Whenever you need to count on him, he comes up small. He's been in the NBA for a long time now and he's proven over and over again that he's unreliable.
Nonetheless, Iman Shumpert has shown terrific on ball defense. But that's half the battle, he's still a piss poor off ball defender. So we're keeping a guy that has zero offensive game whatsoever, below average off ball defending, but occasional terrific on ball defender over JR Smith? No thanks.
As I said before. I think Zen Master leaked this so he could gauge JRs/Shumps/Larkins value and see what he could get. I don't think he's in a rush to get rid of one of them.
Couldn't he also guess that JR Smith has more value to Phil Jackson than you are giving him credit for?
Also, JR Smith looked pretty good during the tail end of this season.
You don't need to be a 10 assist guy to succeed as a point in the triangle (just look at his coach) but you do need to see the floor and make the right pass. I just don't see that from Shump.
In my mind, you can't have him play the point. So they need to move Smith or Shump and my personal preference is Smith because I just can't imagine counting on the guy and he clears space for next year. And I also don't want to only have Smith or THJ to guard scoring 2 guards.
Sure, it's not that simple when we're just talking about talent. But it's very simple when you gauge how productive each guy has been while on the Knicks. It's not close.
I just think Shumpert is still getting hometown bias. I remember last year there were fools who didn't want to give up Iman fucking Shumpert for Rondo.
And I'd say Phil probably has made offers where he'd part with Smith or Shump depending on who might want whom. I'd still rather he move Smith because who needs that BS.
And I've given up on Evan Turner being anything more than a stat stuffer. He is a minus on both ends of the floor. Glad he's with the Celtics.