a " religious nut job" because their beliefs are not something that you agree with, is intolerant. "I am right, you are wrong because you are a nut job!" Really? Having different opinions used to be acceptable in this country. Doesn't seem to be that way anymore. If people disagree then they must be haters, and nut jobs.
Having different opinions is perfectly acceptable.
But couching opinions in a thin veneer not too far from discrimination isn't.
I have no tolerance for people who espouse homophobic, racist, or other types of shit. Neither should any civilized society. As much as we can push these cretins to the margin, the better.
They can opine, but it certainly doesn't mean it's legitimate or not worthy of significant derision.
Think T'eo? He had his drama that had nothing to do with football and then after he was drafted, it seemed that we didn't hear much more about it.
I assume you meant Tebow. Didn't hear anymore about it? It seemed to even increase and you heard hints that many teams/coaches wouldn't want to deal with the distraction he brings with him.
RE: RE: RE: And, quite frankly, hopefully in 20 years we can view the dinosaurs Â
that think that something not within a person's choice set (again, sexual orientation) is some scarlet letter as aberrations.
Being black used to be something that could pull apart a locker room, and, somehow, we've managed to survive...
Easy fella...I didn't say anything about integration here. Ick!
Randy,
I apologize. My previous posts were a bit carelessly worded.
I'm not worried about people who say that character risks exist in all players (like you).
I'm worried about the people who think that, because it's acceptable that we don't accept some character risks (like Vick), we don't need to accept homosexuals either, because they are a "risk" for the locker room.
Gotcha--you don't have to apologize. When in doubt I'd choose your communication abilities over my reading comprehension.
when Jackie Robinson is a person's hero, but that person wouldn't want Michael Sam on his team because of the "distraction," then I feel fine calling that person a hypocrite.
Think T'eo? He had his drama that had nothing to do with football and then after he was drafted, it seemed that we didn't hear much more about it.
I assume you meant Tebow. Didn't hear anymore about it? It seemed to even increase and you heard hints that many teams/coaches wouldn't want to deal with the distraction he brings with him.
Regardless of the talent, the guy will bring with him a circus and if he happens to get cut, the team and the staff will come under unnecessary scrutiny. Didn't Jason Witlock address this a few months back too?
The last thing a coach should be answering are questions about a player's sexual preference when they have only a few weeks to get a team on the field. Then to deal with it every week during the season is a task that I would not want to deal with either.
If I were the GM and HC, I would want my teams to be judged for play on the field, not for images of a marginal 7th round pick licking cake off his boyfriend.
People like to site Vick but Vick said he was sorry remorseful and changed his ways. He has not been in trouble since. So as a christian Dungy believe he was remorseful and to help him on his road to recovery.
How does him being against Sam and gays make him a hypocrite. As for the circus be honest there is more than just the media when it comes to Adams you have a locker room to oversee as well. dog fighting and homosexuality will have totally different weight in the locker-room.
Now if Adams had said he WAS gay and changed saw the light or whatever and THEN Dungy still said no and it was because of his past sexuality being a sin then hypocrite could be applied.
Think T'eo? He had his drama that had nothing to do with football and then after he was drafted, it seemed that we didn't hear much more about it.
I assume you meant Tebow. Didn't hear anymore about it? It seemed to even increase and you heard hints that many teams/coaches wouldn't want to deal with the distraction he brings with him.
It was more about the noodle arm he brought with him.
People like to site Vick but Vick said he was sorry remorseful and changed his ways. He has not been in trouble since. So as a christian Dungy believe he was remorseful and to help him on his road to recovery.
How does him being against Sam and gays make him a hypocrite. As for the circus be honest there is more than just the media when it comes to Adams you have a locker room to oversee as well. dog fighting and homosexuality will have totally different weight in the locker-room.
Now if Adams had said he WAS gay and changed saw the light or whatever and THEN Dungy still said no and it was because of his past sexuality being a sin then hypocrite could be applied.
Not sure who Adams is or what you're talking about.
But I'm fairly sure a good eye stoving will remove Adams or Sam or whoever from their gay problem.
Regardless of the talent, the guy will bring with him a circus and if he happens to get cut, the team and the staff will come under unnecessary scrutiny. Didn't Jason Witlock address this a few months back too?
The last thing a coach should be answering are questions about a player's sexual preference when they have only a few weeks to get a team on the field. Then to deal with it every week during the season is a task that I would not want to deal with either.
If I were the GM and HC, I would want my teams to be judged for play on the field, not for images of a marginal 7th round pick licking cake off his boyfriend.
It isn't PC to be anti-homophobe.
Oh. And him being against Sam and homosexuals, but being Â
Both faced a media storm that said that they would be locker room distractions. Both had features being picketed against not under their control (skin color; sexual orientation). And both faced shit parallels about how they aren't being selected because other character risks aren't taken on, without realizing that the two are not observationally equivalent.
The only difference between accepting one and rejecting the other is because of religion.
Be honest there was a lot more going on with Tebow mania and the distractions it would cause a team than his arm strength.
Being honest, the reason he's not playing professional football on any level right now is because he sucks. And if he does get signed somewhere, it's likely because the non-football reasons will be attractive to someone looks to put asses in seats on the level Tebow is capable of competing on. So he'd be rewarded for the circus he brings.
one significant difference would be their respective talent levels. If Sam was as good a football player that Robinson was a baseball player I bet Dungy and every other coach would figure out a way to deal with the distraction.
Be honest there was a lot more going on with Tebow mania and the distractions it would cause a team than his arm strength.
Being honest, the reason he's not playing professional football on any level right now is because he sucks. And if he does get signed somewhere, it's likely because the non-football reasons will be attractive to someone looks to put asses in seats on the level Tebow is capable of competing on. So he'd be rewarded for the circus he brings.
I agree with this. The media did make the religion angle more of a topic than it should have been (perhaps) but he's out of football because he was a bad QB--not due to some anti-Christian agenda (in a league with MANY Christian athletes).
one significant difference would be their respective talent levels. If Sam was as good a football player that Robinson was a baseball player I bet Dungy and every other coach would figure out a way to deal with the distraction.
Be honest there was a lot more going on with Tebow mania and the distractions it would cause a team than his arm strength.
I agree with this. The media did make the religion angle more of a topic than it should have been (perhaps) but he's out of football because he was a bad QB--not due to some anti-Christian agenda (in a league with MANY Christian athletes).
The Media didn't do anything but point the camera at him while he was genuflecting. He wanted attention for being religious. He got it.
But my point was the teams that hinted that Tebow wasn't worth dealing with because of the distraction.
Obviously any player with enough talent will find coaches that are more than willing to deal with most distractions they bring. Players with less talent not so much.
one significant difference would be their respective talent levels. If Sam was as good a football player that Robinson was a baseball player I bet Dungy and every other coach would figure out a way to deal with the distraction.
The only way it would be valid is if Sam could not contribute on the football field.
But my point was the teams that hinted that Tebow wasn't worth dealing with because of the distraction.
Obviously any player with enough talent will find coaches that are more than willing to deal with most distractions they bring. Players with less talent not so much.
And there you go. So Tim Tebow isn't in the NFL right now and Michael Sam is.
The market is speaking.
are pretty singularly focused on one thing, how to make their team better. Any player viewed as being a distraction that may hinder that is weighed against how much his skill level might also benefit the team.
It was a incredibly dumb thing for Dungy to have said, but it is simply naïve to think that many coaches likely wouldn't want to deal with the distraction Sam would bring when weighed against his talents. They are just smart enough to keep their mouths closed.
But my point was the teams that hinted that Tebow wasn't worth dealing with because of the distraction.
Obviously any player with enough talent will find coaches that are more than willing to deal with most distractions they bring. Players with less talent not so much.
And there you go. So Tim Tebow isn't in the NFL right now and Michael Sam is.
The market is speaking.
He has his chance, I hope he makes the best of it. As far as the comparison we will have to see if he lasts any more than the three season that Tebow did.
(ok, he said it years ago, but this thread made me think of it)
Quote:
BrandonSpikes51 ✔ @BrandonSpikes51
I’m homophobic just like I’m arachnophobic.I have nothing against homosexuals or spiders but I’d still scream if I found one in my bathtub !
4:57 PM - 10 Oct 2012
are pretty singularly focused on one thing, how to make their team better. Any player viewed as being a distraction that may hinder that is weighed against how much his skill level might also benefit the team.
It was a incredibly dumb thing for Dungy to have said, but it is simply naïve to think that many coaches likely wouldn't want to deal with the distraction Sam would bring when weighed against his talents. They are just smart enough to keep their mouths closed.
You've spent a lot of time defending 'an incredibly dumb thing…to have said…'
Perhaps those other coaches you're so sure agree just aren't, you know, dumb?
Regardless of the talent, the guy will bring with him a circus and if he happens to get cut, the team and the staff will come under unnecessary scrutiny. Didn't Jason Witlock address this a few months back too?
The last thing a coach should be answering are questions about a player's sexual preference when they have only a few weeks to get a team on the field. Then to deal with it every week during the season is a task that I would not want to deal with either.
If I were the GM and HC, I would want my teams to be judged for play on the field, not for images of a marginal 7th round pick licking cake off his boyfriend.
It isn't PC to be anti-homophobe.
It's bigoted to call someone a "homophobe" without really knowing what's in their hearts and how they really feel. PC crowd is very quick to judge and condemn all the while claiming to be anti-judgmental and non-discriminatory.. as long as you agree with however they feel that day.
Sam has done more in pro-football than 99.99% of the population. Good for him and as an SEC fan, I hope he carries himself well because he represents his school and his conference. As the fan of an opposing team, I can't bring myself to worry about a 7th rd pick beyond that.
RE: He really meant that the guy is not good enough Â
We really don't know what we meant but we're trying to add it up. However:
“I wouldn’t have taken him,’’ Dungy told the Tampa Tribune. “Not because I don’t believe Michael Sam should have a chance to play, but I wouldn’t want to deal with all of it. It’s not going to be totally smooth . . . things will happen." He's assuming the worst based on his ignorance and intolerance. And THAT isn't fair to a gay player.
But my point was the teams that hinted that Tebow wasn't worth dealing with because of the distraction.
Obviously any player with enough talent will find coaches that are more than willing to deal with most distractions they bring. Players with less talent not so much.
Regardless of the talent, the guy will bring with him a circus and if he happens to get cut, the team and the staff will come under unnecessary scrutiny. Didn't Jason Witlock address this a few months back too?
The last thing a coach should be answering are questions about a player's sexual preference when they have only a few weeks to get a team on the field. Then to deal with it every week during the season is a task that I would not want to deal with either.
If I were the GM and HC, I would want my teams to be judged for play on the field, not for images of a marginal 7th round pick licking cake off his boyfriend.
It isn't PC to be anti-homophobe.
It's bigoted to call someone a "homophobe" without really knowing what's in their hearts and how they really feel. PC crowd is very quick to judge and condemn all the while claiming to be anti-judgmental and non-discriminatory.. as long as you agree with however they feel that day.
Sam has done more in pro-football than 99.99% of the population. Good for him and as an SEC fan, I hope he carries himself well because he represents his school and his conference. As the fan of an opposing team, I can't bring myself to worry about a 7th rd pick beyond that.
Dungy has a history of it and I will end this when it is clear that if you call out intolerance, then YOU must be the intolerant one. It is actually the argument that racists are known to yammer. Have a blessed day!
will be accepted by his team as a football player. Unfortunately the media will create a circus just as they did with Tebow. There were people making fun of "Tebowing" and looking for any comment from a coach or team mate. It became a distraction. The pressure will be put on for Michael Sam to make the team. If he is not good enough and they cut him,... it will be a mess. Did they cut him because gay? The media will love all this. Michael Sam wants to become an NFL player. I don't agree with his lifestyle, that does not make me a racist, or a homophobe. I hope he makes the NFL because he is an NFL caliber player. Michael Sam DE,
Robinson was a GREAT all-around athlete; he was no doubt a front-line major league player and could play ball with anyone. That was one of the reasons Robinson was the guy chosen to break the color barrier. Monte Irvin was a superb athlete; no doubt could play major league baseball. My sense from reading about Sam is that he is a mediocre athlete, especially for the position he plays, and may not make the team.
It is much easier to weather the possible media / other storms with a hall of fame caliber player that is helping your team win. I am not saying that is fair but it is reality.
People don't have to agree with a homosexual lifestyle. Â
The thing that they shouldn't be allowed to do is to couch non-equality of opportunity in terms of "character risks", since the players are not choosing to be different.
It would be akin to calling an epileptic a character risk in the locker room because he may seize.
I'm not defending him. I thought Randy was using the Tebow comparison and responded, you then responded to that response so I answered you.
It was dumb, I just think people are naïve if they think Dungy is unique.
steve, as I just posted, I think Dungy has a bit of a history. And also, if I'm a law-abiding citizen and your religion (supposedly--even though it doesn't) tells you that you shouldn't treat me fairly, well, I have a problem with that. It is pretty straightforward.
I'm not defending him. I thought Randy was using the Tebow comparison and responded, you then responded to that response so I answered you.
It was dumb, I just think people are naïve if they think Dungy is unique.
It took a number of posts before you called it 'a dumb thing to have said'.
Meanwhile, your first post still looks like a defense, because you think he's just saying (as you repeat above) what (you believe) everyone else is thinking.
Quote:
There are likely many coaches who would view it
steve in ky : 2:46 pm : link : reply
as a potential distraction not worth dealing with. I seriously doubt he is alone in this regard. The difference is the majority that feel that way won't admit it.
Meanwhile, the most I've heard Michael Sam's name since draft today is today.
So how's Rams camp going? You must know with all the non-stop, distracting media coverage.
Having different opinions is perfectly acceptable.
But couching opinions in a thin veneer not too far from discrimination isn't.
I have no tolerance for people who espouse homophobic, racist, or other types of shit. Neither should any civilized society. As much as we can push these cretins to the margin, the better.
They can opine, but it certainly doesn't mean it's legitimate or not worthy of significant derision.
I assume you meant Tebow. Didn't hear anymore about it? It seemed to even increase and you heard hints that many teams/coaches wouldn't want to deal with the distraction he brings with him.
Quote:
In comment 11775137 kickerpa16 said:
Quote:
that think that something not within a person's choice set (again, sexual orientation) is some scarlet letter as aberrations.
Being black used to be something that could pull apart a locker room, and, somehow, we've managed to survive...
Easy fella...I didn't say anything about integration here. Ick!
Randy,
I apologize. My previous posts were a bit carelessly worded.
I'm not worried about people who say that character risks exist in all players (like you).
I'm worried about the people who think that, because it's acceptable that we don't accept some character risks (like Vick), we don't need to accept homosexuals either, because they are a "risk" for the locker room.
Quote:
Think T'eo? He had his drama that had nothing to do with football and then after he was drafted, it seemed that we didn't hear much more about it.
I assume you meant Tebow. Didn't hear anymore about it? It seemed to even increase and you heard hints that many teams/coaches wouldn't want to deal with the distraction he brings with him.
What do you think it is about Sam that would create an environment he "wouldn't want to deal with" ?
It's not that hard to put 2 and 2 together here.
Don't trust what I say 100% for the next few weeks :)
The last thing a coach should be answering are questions about a player's sexual preference when they have only a few weeks to get a team on the field. Then to deal with it every week during the season is a task that I would not want to deal with either.
If I were the GM and HC, I would want my teams to be judged for play on the field, not for images of a marginal 7th round pick licking cake off his boyfriend.
How does him being against Sam and gays make him a hypocrite. As for the circus be honest there is more than just the media when it comes to Adams you have a locker room to oversee as well. dog fighting and homosexuality will have totally different weight in the locker-room.
Now if Adams had said he WAS gay and changed saw the light or whatever and THEN Dungy still said no and it was because of his past sexuality being a sin then hypocrite could be applied.
Quote:
Think T'eo? He had his drama that had nothing to do with football and then after he was drafted, it seemed that we didn't hear much more about it.
I assume you meant Tebow. Didn't hear anymore about it? It seemed to even increase and you heard hints that many teams/coaches wouldn't want to deal with the distraction he brings with him.
It was more about the noodle arm he brought with him.
And the cretins will fall further and further down the rabbit hole.
How does him being against Sam and gays make him a hypocrite. As for the circus be honest there is more than just the media when it comes to Adams you have a locker room to oversee as well. dog fighting and homosexuality will have totally different weight in the locker-room.
Now if Adams had said he WAS gay and changed saw the light or whatever and THEN Dungy still said no and it was because of his past sexuality being a sin then hypocrite could be applied.
Not sure who Adams is or what you're talking about.
But I'm fairly sure a good eye stoving will remove Adams or Sam or whoever from their gay problem.
Don't trust what I say 100% for the next few weeks :)
Boston Logger?
The last thing a coach should be answering are questions about a player's sexual preference when they have only a few weeks to get a team on the field. Then to deal with it every week during the season is a task that I would not want to deal with either.
If I were the GM and HC, I would want my teams to be judged for play on the field, not for images of a marginal 7th round pick licking cake off his boyfriend.
Both faced a media storm that said that they would be locker room distractions. Both had features being picketed against not under their control (skin color; sexual orientation). And both faced shit parallels about how they aren't being selected because other character risks aren't taken on, without realizing that the two are not observationally equivalent.
The only difference between accepting one and rejecting the other is because of religion.
Being honest, the reason he's not playing professional football on any level right now is because he sucks. And if he does get signed somewhere, it's likely because the non-football reasons will be attractive to someone looks to put asses in seats on the level Tebow is capable of competing on. So he'd be rewarded for the circus he brings.
Quote:
Be honest there was a lot more going on with Tebow mania and the distractions it would cause a team than his arm strength.
Being honest, the reason he's not playing professional football on any level right now is because he sucks. And if he does get signed somewhere, it's likely because the non-football reasons will be attractive to someone looks to put asses in seats on the level Tebow is capable of competing on. So he'd be rewarded for the circus he brings.
Which would also make Dungy a hypocrite.
That explains some of the flavors. I knew it.
SOB
Quote:
In comment 11775180 steve in ky said:
Quote:
Be honest there was a lot more going on with Tebow mania and the distractions it would cause a team than his arm strength.
I agree with this. The media did make the religion angle more of a topic than it should have been (perhaps) but he's out of football because he was a bad QB--not due to some anti-Christian agenda (in a league with MANY Christian athletes).
The Media didn't do anything but point the camera at him while he was genuflecting. He wanted attention for being religious. He got it.
Obviously any player with enough talent will find coaches that are more than willing to deal with most distractions they bring. Players with less talent not so much.
The only way it would be valid is if Sam could not contribute on the football field.
And that's not what he said.
Somehow, I don't think he would agree with that statement. Nor should he.
Obviously any player with enough talent will find coaches that are more than willing to deal with most distractions they bring. Players with less talent not so much.
And there you go. So Tim Tebow isn't in the NFL right now and Michael Sam is.
The market is speaking.
It was a incredibly dumb thing for Dungy to have said, but it is simply naïve to think that many coaches likely wouldn't want to deal with the distraction Sam would bring when weighed against his talents. They are just smart enough to keep their mouths closed.
Quote:
But my point was the teams that hinted that Tebow wasn't worth dealing with because of the distraction.
Obviously any player with enough talent will find coaches that are more than willing to deal with most distractions they bring. Players with less talent not so much.
And there you go. So Tim Tebow isn't in the NFL right now and Michael Sam is.
The market is speaking.
He has his chance, I hope he makes the best of it. As far as the comparison we will have to see if he lasts any more than the three season that Tebow did.
I’m homophobic just like I’m arachnophobic.I have nothing against homosexuals or spiders but I’d still scream if I found one in my bathtub !
4:57 PM - 10 Oct 2012
It was a incredibly dumb thing for Dungy to have said, but it is simply naïve to think that many coaches likely wouldn't want to deal with the distraction Sam would bring when weighed against his talents. They are just smart enough to keep their mouths closed.
You've spent a lot of time defending 'an incredibly dumb thing…to have said…'
Perhaps those other coaches you're so sure agree just aren't, you know, dumb?
Quote:
Regardless of the talent, the guy will bring with him a circus and if he happens to get cut, the team and the staff will come under unnecessary scrutiny. Didn't Jason Witlock address this a few months back too?
The last thing a coach should be answering are questions about a player's sexual preference when they have only a few weeks to get a team on the field. Then to deal with it every week during the season is a task that I would not want to deal with either.
If I were the GM and HC, I would want my teams to be judged for play on the field, not for images of a marginal 7th round pick licking cake off his boyfriend.
It isn't PC to be anti-homophobe.
It's bigoted to call someone a "homophobe" without really knowing what's in their hearts and how they really feel. PC crowd is very quick to judge and condemn all the while claiming to be anti-judgmental and non-discriminatory.. as long as you agree with however they feel that day.
Sam has done more in pro-football than 99.99% of the population. Good for him and as an SEC fan, I hope he carries himself well because he represents his school and his conference. As the fan of an opposing team, I can't bring myself to worry about a 7th rd pick beyond that.
“I wouldn’t have taken him,’’ Dungy told the Tampa Tribune. “Not because I don’t believe Michael Sam should have a chance to play, but I wouldn’t want to deal with all of it. It’s not going to be totally smooth . . . things will happen." He's assuming the worst based on his ignorance and intolerance. And THAT isn't fair to a gay player.
Obviously any player with enough talent will find coaches that are more than willing to deal with most distractions they bring. Players with less talent not so much.
Sad but true.
It was dumb, I just think people are naïve if they think Dungy is unique.
Quote:
In comment 11775166 newmike2 said:
Quote:
Regardless of the talent, the guy will bring with him a circus and if he happens to get cut, the team and the staff will come under unnecessary scrutiny. Didn't Jason Witlock address this a few months back too?
The last thing a coach should be answering are questions about a player's sexual preference when they have only a few weeks to get a team on the field. Then to deal with it every week during the season is a task that I would not want to deal with either.
If I were the GM and HC, I would want my teams to be judged for play on the field, not for images of a marginal 7th round pick licking cake off his boyfriend.
It isn't PC to be anti-homophobe.
It's bigoted to call someone a "homophobe" without really knowing what's in their hearts and how they really feel. PC crowd is very quick to judge and condemn all the while claiming to be anti-judgmental and non-discriminatory.. as long as you agree with however they feel that day.
Sam has done more in pro-football than 99.99% of the population. Good for him and as an SEC fan, I hope he carries himself well because he represents his school and his conference. As the fan of an opposing team, I can't bring myself to worry about a 7th rd pick beyond that.
It is much easier to weather the possible media / other storms with a hall of fame caliber player that is helping your team win. I am not saying that is fair but it is reality.
It would be akin to calling an epileptic a character risk in the locker room because he may seize.
It was dumb, I just think people are naïve if they think Dungy is unique.
It was dumb, I just think people are naïve if they think Dungy is unique.
It took a number of posts before you called it 'a dumb thing to have said'.
Meanwhile, your first post still looks like a defense, because you think he's just saying (as you repeat above) what (you believe) everyone else is thinking.
steve in ky : 2:46 pm : link : reply
as a potential distraction not worth dealing with. I seriously doubt he is alone in this regard. The difference is the majority that feel that way won't admit it.
Meanwhile, the most I've heard Michael Sam's name since draft today is today.
So how's Rams camp going? You must know with all the non-stop, distracting media coverage.