will be accepted by his team as a football player. Unfortunately the media will create a circus just as they did with Tebow. There were people making fun of "Tebowing" and looking for any comment from a coach or team mate. It became a distraction. The pressure will be put on for Michael Sam to make the team. If he is not good enough and they cut him,... it will be a mess. Did they cut him because gay? The media will love all this. Michael Sam wants to become an NFL player. I don't agree with his lifestyle, that does not make me a racist, or a homophobe. I hope he makes the NFL because he is an NFL caliber player. Michael Sam DE,
"Lifestyle?"
That indicates you think his being gay is his CHOICE - the very thing that makes homophobes ignorant and ridiculous.
will be accepted by his team as a football player. Unfortunately the media will create a circus just as they did with Tebow. There were people making fun of "Tebowing" and looking for any comment from a coach or team mate. It became a distraction.
Right. A distraction that Tebow, a QB (rather high profile position in the NFL) brought to himself.
We still have seen how Sam will behave on the field. Perhaps he'll just do his job and then jog off. Like most of the other guys.
have *not* seen how Sam will behave on the field Â
and strikes me as just laying in wait for someone to slip up with a word here or there similar to what our great (sarcasm) media.
I like girls and presumably did not learn that trait. But living my life trying to get some stank on the hang-low seems to be my "lifestyle" albeit one I was born into, is it not?
Dungy stuck up for Vick and getting his second shot back in the Nfl and the circus that followed him. But wouldnt take a chance on Sam??? sounds funny to me
RE: RE: RE: RE: this is not as bad as the PC crowd is making it Â
Regardless of the talent, the guy will bring with him a circus and if he happens to get cut, the team and the staff will come under unnecessary scrutiny. Didn't Jason Witlock address this a few months back too?
The last thing a coach should be answering are questions about a player's sexual preference when they have only a few weeks to get a team on the field. Then to deal with it every week during the season is a task that I would not want to deal with either.
If I were the GM and HC, I would want my teams to be judged for play on the field, not for images of a marginal 7th round pick licking cake off his boyfriend.
It isn't PC to be anti-homophobe.
It's bigoted to call someone a "homophobe" without really knowing what's in their hearts and how they really feel. PC crowd is very quick to judge and condemn all the while claiming to be anti-judgmental and non-discriminatory.. as long as you agree with however they feel that day.
Sam has done more in pro-football than 99.99% of the population. Good for him and as an SEC fan, I hope he carries himself well because he represents his school and his conference. As the fan of an opposing team, I can't bring myself to worry about a 7th rd pick beyond that.
Dungy has a history of it and I will end this when it is clear that if you call out intolerance, then YOU must be the intolerant one. It is actually the argument that racists are known to yammer. Have a blessed day!
So, it's intolerant to disagree with you.. That sounds awfully judgmental...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: this is not as bad as the PC crowd is making it Â
Regardless of the talent, the guy will bring with him a circus and if he happens to get cut, the team and the staff will come under unnecessary scrutiny. Didn't Jason Witlock address this a few months back too?
The last thing a coach should be answering are questions about a player's sexual preference when they have only a few weeks to get a team on the field. Then to deal with it every week during the season is a task that I would not want to deal with either.
If I were the GM and HC, I would want my teams to be judged for play on the field, not for images of a marginal 7th round pick licking cake off his boyfriend.
It isn't PC to be anti-homophobe.
It's bigoted to call someone a "homophobe" without really knowing what's in their hearts and how they really feel. PC crowd is very quick to judge and condemn all the while claiming to be anti-judgmental and non-discriminatory.. as long as you agree with however they feel that day.
Sam has done more in pro-football than 99.99% of the population. Good for him and as an SEC fan, I hope he carries himself well because he represents his school and his conference. As the fan of an opposing team, I can't bring myself to worry about a 7th rd pick beyond that.
Dungy has a history of it and I will end this when it is clear that if you call out intolerance, then YOU must be the intolerant one. It is actually the argument that racists are known to yammer. Have a blessed day!
So, it's intolerant to disagree with you.. That sounds awfully judgmental...
I'm not defending him. I thought Randy was using the Tebow comparison and responded, you then responded to that response so I answered you.
It was dumb, I just think people are naïve if they think Dungy is unique.
It took a number of posts before you called it 'a dumb thing to have said'.
Meanwhile, your first post still looks like a defense, because you think he's just saying (as you repeat above) what (you believe) everyone else is thinking.
Quote:
There are likely many coaches who would view it
steve in ky : 2:46 pm : link : reply
as a potential distraction not worth dealing with. I seriously doubt he is alone in this regard. The difference is the majority that feel that way won't admit it.
Meanwhile, the most I've heard Michael Sam's name since draft today is today.
So how's Rams camp going? You must know with all the non-stop, distracting media coverage.
My first post was simply pointing out what some people seemed to be missing and that I doubted he would be the lone coach who felt that way only the others wouldn't admit it. By suggesting they know better than to admit it implied (or at least I thought it did) it was a dumb thing to say. Sorry if it I didn't show what you feel was an appropriate on top of a soap box shout about it.
I don't agree with his lifestyle, that does not make me a racist, or a homophobe. I hope he makes the NFL because he is an NFL caliber player. Michael Sam DE,
What does it make you then?
What does "I don't agree with his lifestyle" even mean? You don't agree that he likes dick? You agree that he likes dick but that he shouldn't be allowed to like dick?
What part of his "lifestyle" has any effect on your life?
Can't quite deal with it. Listen to all the arguments and always find myself on the wrong side and don't want to do anything about it.
Label me anything you want (I'll probably agree with you) I don't think he belongs in a locker room and I don't want to watch him play. Must add I'm not religious so i don't even have that excuse. I don't think he should be prohibited either, but there's lots of things that are legal and that I recognize have a right to exist that I don't endorse.
I almost feel ashamed of the way I feel and I find Robinson noble and his cause marvelously just and find nothing like that here and find the comparison odious, though the strange mixed up things is, even as I write that I understand the argument comparing it to Robinson.
I am still allowed to label certain things or behaviors as loathsome. I guess.???
The Tebow comparison is stupid to begin with. Making attempts at trying to legitimize that comparison makes you even dumber, and by proxie makes me dumber for having read it and having my poor brain process it. Sam hasn't taken an NFL snap yet, he's buried on the depth chart, and is a guy trying to get his career started. Tebow isn't getting a chance, because he sucks, and he actually does bring a distraction to the table. Any team that signs him for depth would only be inviting legions of whacky Tebow fanatics calling for him to start. You think Mark Sanchez was comfortable during Tebow's year with the Jets?
I don't get why some people go out of their way to say they don't agree with a certain lifestyle. It's basically akin to prefacing something with "no offense" or "not to be racist", only to follow it up with a statement that is obscenely offensive or racist. How about not giving a shit about what 2 consenting adults choose to do behind closed doors?
Can't quite deal with it. Listen to all the arguments and always find myself on the wrong side and don't want to do anything about it.
Label me anything you want (I'll probably agree with you) I don't think he belongs in a locker room and I don't want to watch him play. Must add I'm not religious so i don't even have that excuse. I don't think he should be prohibited either, but there's lots of things that are legal and that I recognize have a right to exist that I don't endorse.
I almost feel ashamed of the way I feel and I find Robinson noble and his cause marvelously just and find nothing like that here and find the comparison odious, though the strange mixed up things is, even as I write that I understand the argument comparing it to Robinson.
I am still allowed to label certain things or behaviors as loathsome. I guess.???
I guess I kind of "get" where you're coming from.
I find guys that are into fat chicks to be loathsome, too (the attracted to fat chick part, not the actual person).
Of course, it doesn't have any impact on my life, so I wouldn't mind watching a guy that's into big chicks play football.
As the article says, he was the first African American head coach to win a Super Bowl and authored a book about equality in coaching.
That does make him a hypocrite.
Hell, you don't have to agree with someone's lifestyle but how about just having the equal opportunity to WORK regardless of the life you live away from your job (stripper/porn teachers excluded).
Oh sorry. You're gay, you can't work here. Really??
But as someone else said earlier in this thread, Dungy is yesterday's news.
You know what I mean. Point is just that it shouldn't matter who he loves or what he does outside of his job performance as long as he's not breaking any rules or laws.
with people "being gay", remember that your understanding it or condoning it doesn't factor into them leading peaceful, productive lives in the way that seems natural to them.
Your reactions are only a disapproval and condemnation which can potentially hurt people just living their lives. Further, associating a religion to it compounds that bigotry to have a misguided corroboration which doesn't exist. And quite frankly ignores another part of that religion about judging others.'
How about spending more energy on condoning happy relationships between good people who are living peaceful and productive lives? No matter what their orientation.
is a way to say that it's a choice without saying it explicitly and being ridiculed for it.
For the rest, it's probably just an anachronistic saying without much thought into what it really says (like using derogatory slang words like retard or gay).
Not read the thread but if I was a head coach and a control freak as most are I would avoid a projected fringe player who might cause a distraction and that means any reason which the player has himself caused to bring so much attention upon himself and a controversy if he gets cut.
RE: No, I dont know why you're trying to put words in my mouth. Â
pretty much part of NFL life? Arrests, suspensions, baby mama drama, etc. aren't distractions? I'm quite sure Michael Vick's arrest was pretty disruptive to the Falcons' football operations.
Dungy is a quack.
I would ask you to explain which aspect of my life you Â
don't agree with. But I thought that was pretty well established here.
When I said "lifestyle" I didn't mean that people shouldn't be gay. I just meant that part of their life along with any other, shouldn't matter even if you don't agree with it.
Not read the thread but if I was a head coach and a control freak as most are I would avoid a projected fringe player who might cause a distraction and that means any reason which the player has himself caused to bring so much attention upon himself and a controversy if he gets cut.
for supporting Vick doesn't make much sense. If Vick was still involved in dog fighting, I don't think Dungy would be supporting him. That's more of being supportive of someone who did jail time for his crimes and is looking to turn his life around. I'm no Vick fan, if fack he's one of my least favorite players in the league, but I do beleive in giving people second chances.
This is handled quite simply at the first team meeting:
"When you're asked about anyone's sexual orientation or how anyone is fitting in to the locker room, the answer to the first is that it is nobody's business but that particular person and the answer to the second is that we keep what goes on in the locker room in the locker room."
"Feel free to add a sly wink when you answer the second question."
Tony Dungy is not allowed to say he wouldn't want to draft a marginally talented player and state his reason for picking one player over another.
I have no doubt that if Michael Sam was a 1st to 3rd round player, Dungy would deal with the media circus that is about to unfold, but as 7th round talent, there are about 100 other people available that he would not have to answer the same stupid daily questions about, or if he was cut, answer those same stupid questions about how much his being a homosexual had to do with it. And, sorry to say it, but that poor guy (Sam) is going to catch some hell in that locker room or be ostracized by some of his teammates for who he is. That kid Martin in Miami was bullied over his weak personality and the coaching staff did nothing to stop it. Now the Rams coaching staff is going to have to be on top of what is going on in that locker room. So with 90 players in that locker room, that staff will need to keep a special eye on one player to make sure he isn't abused.
Traditional marriage can be reserved for whomever the relevant religious authority deems fit.
But everyone is entered into a civil union (homosexual or heterosexual) with equal benefits for all. You are formally tied together as spouses by civil unions, and not by marriage. Marriage will solely be a religious institution that yields NO earthly benefits, solely spiritual.
If you don't want to accord equal civil union benefits to all; not only do you fail at a separation of church and state, but you discriminate.
Tony Dungy is not allowed to say he wouldn't want to draft a marginally talented player and state his reason for picking one player over another.
I have no doubt that if Michael Sam was a 1st to 3rd round player, Dungy would deal with the media circus that is about to unfold, but as 7th round talent, there are about 100 other people available that he would not have to answer the same stupid daily questions about, or if he was cut, answer those same stupid questions about how much his being a homosexual had to do with it. And, sorry to say it, but that poor guy (Sam) is going to catch some hell in that locker room or be ostracized by some of his teammates for who he is. That kid Martin in Miami was bullied over his weak personality and the coaching staff did nothing to stop it. Now the Rams coaching staff is going to have to be on top of what is going on in that locker room. So with 90 players in that locker room, that staff will need to keep a special eye on one player to make sure he isn't abused.
Pretty sure he's allowed to say whatever he wants.
Also pretty sure that we're allowed to call him a hypocrite for saying it.
Not venturing any further into the political side but isn't that a form of discrimanation due to someones sexual preference?..And most of them use the Bible as defending the idea that's it's a union between a man and a woman?
Some of the posts on here are indicative of why people feel the Â
need to hide their sexuality. It's ridiculous thinking. And yes, I judge and am intolerant of that thinking.
If you got any compassion, interest in justice and are at all open hearted/minded, you're rotting for Michael Sam because he repents an opportunity for people to be treated as they are. Not just when they beat women, kill dogs, kill people driving drunk, do a bunch of coke they ask the cops if they know who they are…all accepting Michael Sam requires is understanding his sexual orientation is different. Not his 'lifestyle' or whatever that's code for…just who he has sex with. Because that's so fucking important. Anyone 'distracted' by that has issues of their own to work out.
"Lifestyle?"
That indicates you think his being gay is his CHOICE - the very thing that makes homophobes ignorant and ridiculous.
Right. A distraction that Tebow, a QB (rather high profile position in the NFL) brought to himself.
We still have seen how Sam will behave on the field. Perhaps he'll just do his job and then jog off. Like most of the other guys.
I like girls and presumably did not learn that trait. But living my life trying to get some stank on the hang-low seems to be my "lifestyle" albeit one I was born into, is it not?
Quote:
In comment 11775188 Randy in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 11775166 newmike2 said:
Quote:
Regardless of the talent, the guy will bring with him a circus and if he happens to get cut, the team and the staff will come under unnecessary scrutiny. Didn't Jason Witlock address this a few months back too?
The last thing a coach should be answering are questions about a player's sexual preference when they have only a few weeks to get a team on the field. Then to deal with it every week during the season is a task that I would not want to deal with either.
If I were the GM and HC, I would want my teams to be judged for play on the field, not for images of a marginal 7th round pick licking cake off his boyfriend.
It isn't PC to be anti-homophobe.
It's bigoted to call someone a "homophobe" without really knowing what's in their hearts and how they really feel. PC crowd is very quick to judge and condemn all the while claiming to be anti-judgmental and non-discriminatory.. as long as you agree with however they feel that day.
Sam has done more in pro-football than 99.99% of the population. Good for him and as an SEC fan, I hope he carries himself well because he represents his school and his conference. As the fan of an opposing team, I can't bring myself to worry about a 7th rd pick beyond that.
Dungy has a history of it and I will end this when it is clear that if you call out intolerance, then YOU must be the intolerant one. It is actually the argument that racists are known to yammer. Have a blessed day!
So, it's intolerant to disagree with you.. That sounds awfully judgmental...
Quote:
In comment 11775232 newmike2 said:
Quote:
In comment 11775188 Randy in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 11775166 newmike2 said:
Quote:
Regardless of the talent, the guy will bring with him a circus and if he happens to get cut, the team and the staff will come under unnecessary scrutiny. Didn't Jason Witlock address this a few months back too?
The last thing a coach should be answering are questions about a player's sexual preference when they have only a few weeks to get a team on the field. Then to deal with it every week during the season is a task that I would not want to deal with either.
If I were the GM and HC, I would want my teams to be judged for play on the field, not for images of a marginal 7th round pick licking cake off his boyfriend.
It isn't PC to be anti-homophobe.
It's bigoted to call someone a "homophobe" without really knowing what's in their hearts and how they really feel. PC crowd is very quick to judge and condemn all the while claiming to be anti-judgmental and non-discriminatory.. as long as you agree with however they feel that day.
Sam has done more in pro-football than 99.99% of the population. Good for him and as an SEC fan, I hope he carries himself well because he represents his school and his conference. As the fan of an opposing team, I can't bring myself to worry about a 7th rd pick beyond that.
Dungy has a history of it and I will end this when it is clear that if you call out intolerance, then YOU must be the intolerant one. It is actually the argument that racists are known to yammer. Have a blessed day!
So, it's intolerant to disagree with you.. That sounds awfully judgmental...
Quote:
I'm not defending him. I thought Randy was using the Tebow comparison and responded, you then responded to that response so I answered you.
It was dumb, I just think people are naïve if they think Dungy is unique.
It took a number of posts before you called it 'a dumb thing to have said'.
Meanwhile, your first post still looks like a defense, because you think he's just saying (as you repeat above) what (you believe) everyone else is thinking.
Quote:
There are likely many coaches who would view it
steve in ky : 2:46 pm : link : reply
as a potential distraction not worth dealing with. I seriously doubt he is alone in this regard. The difference is the majority that feel that way won't admit it.
Meanwhile, the most I've heard Michael Sam's name since draft today is today.
So how's Rams camp going? You must know with all the non-stop, distracting media coverage.
My first post was simply pointing out what some people seemed to be missing and that I doubted he would be the lone coach who felt that way only the others wouldn't admit it. By suggesting they know better than to admit it implied (or at least I thought it did) it was a dumb thing to say. Sorry if it I didn't show what you feel was an appropriate on top of a soap box shout about it.
What does it make you then?
What does "I don't agree with his lifestyle" even mean? You don't agree that he likes dick? You agree that he likes dick but that he shouldn't be allowed to like dick?
What part of his "lifestyle" has any effect on your life?
Label me anything you want (I'll probably agree with you) I don't think he belongs in a locker room and I don't want to watch him play. Must add I'm not religious so i don't even have that excuse. I don't think he should be prohibited either, but there's lots of things that are legal and that I recognize have a right to exist that I don't endorse.
I almost feel ashamed of the way I feel and I find Robinson noble and his cause marvelously just and find nothing like that here and find the comparison odious, though the strange mixed up things is, even as I write that I understand the argument comparing it to Robinson.
I am still allowed to label certain things or behaviors as loathsome. I guess.???
I don't get why some people go out of their way to say they don't agree with a certain lifestyle. It's basically akin to prefacing something with "no offense" or "not to be racist", only to follow it up with a statement that is obscenely offensive or racist. How about not giving a shit about what 2 consenting adults choose to do behind closed doors?
I mean, his son dies and he misses ONE game due to that "distraction"?
Label me anything you want (I'll probably agree with you) I don't think he belongs in a locker room and I don't want to watch him play. Must add I'm not religious so i don't even have that excuse. I don't think he should be prohibited either, but there's lots of things that are legal and that I recognize have a right to exist that I don't endorse.
I almost feel ashamed of the way I feel and I find Robinson noble and his cause marvelously just and find nothing like that here and find the comparison odious, though the strange mixed up things is, even as I write that I understand the argument comparing it to Robinson.
I am still allowed to label certain things or behaviors as loathsome. I guess.???
I guess I kind of "get" where you're coming from.
I find guys that are into fat chicks to be loathsome, too (the attracted to fat chick part, not the actual person).
Of course, it doesn't have any impact on my life, so I wouldn't mind watching a guy that's into big chicks play football.
That does make him a hypocrite.
Hell, you don't have to agree with someone's lifestyle but how about just having the equal opportunity to WORK regardless of the life you live away from your job (stripper/porn teachers excluded).
Oh sorry. You're gay, you can't work here. Really??
But as someone else said earlier in this thread, Dungy is yesterday's news.
Your reactions are only a disapproval and condemnation which can potentially hurt people just living their lives. Further, associating a religion to it compounds that bigotry to have a misguided corroboration which doesn't exist. And quite frankly ignores another part of that religion about judging others.'
How about spending more energy on condoning happy relationships between good people who are living peaceful and productive lives? No matter what their orientation.
For the rest, it's probably just an anachronistic saying without much thought into what it really says (like using derogatory slang words like retard or gay).
I'm gonna keep saying lifestyle in these discussions just to confuse Cam. =)
Got it.
In comment 11775773 Wuphat said:
Sheet. If that was the problem, I wouldn't ever wear a condom.
Wait...
Yeah, too big.
I wasn't aware that the term "lifestyle" was politically incorrect now.
I mean, you could've just said, "Hey Curtis, that term doesn't mean what you think it means. Its actually kind of demeaning."
And I would've said, "okay, I wasn't aware. I'm sorry."
Either way, sorry if I offended anyone.
I wasn't aware that the term "lifestyle" was politically incorrect now.
I mean, you could've just said, "Hey Curtis, that term doesn't mean what you think it means. Its actually kind of demeaning."
And I would've said, "okay, I wasn't aware. I'm sorry."
Either way, sorry if I offended anyone.
Woah. Not trying to put words in your mouth, and you certainly didn't offend me. Not sure what "PC" has to do with anything.
I asked what that meant, because it doesn't really seem to have much thought put into it or make much sense at all to me.
If I were to say, "I don't agree with Curtis' lifestyle." what would that mean to you?
Obviously "lifestyle" in this case is a substitution for homosexual.
It's the "I don't agree" that makes no sense.
Who's asking anyone to agree? What are they agreeing on? What does it mean that they don't agree?
If you don't agree with folks getting a tattoo, that's pretty simple: You don't think folks should get inked.
But if you don't agree with someone's lifestyle that doesn't mean that you don't think they should be gay? Or does it just mean that you aren't gay?
If it's the latter, why not just say, "I'm not into guys"?
Saying, "I don't agree with his lifestyle" seems to me to imply much more than just, "I don't like man sausage in my mouth."
Dungy is a quack.
When I said "lifestyle" I didn't mean that people shouldn't be gay. I just meant that part of their life along with any other, shouldn't matter even if you don't agree with it.
This is handled quite simply at the first team meeting:
"When you're asked about anyone's sexual orientation or how anyone is fitting in to the locker room, the answer to the first is that it is nobody's business but that particular person and the answer to the second is that we keep what goes on in the locker room in the locker room."
"Feel free to add a sly wink when you answer the second question."
Shake on him for having the courage to acknowledge who he is.
That's such an idiotic mentality...
I have no doubt that if Michael Sam was a 1st to 3rd round player, Dungy would deal with the media circus that is about to unfold, but as 7th round talent, there are about 100 other people available that he would not have to answer the same stupid daily questions about, or if he was cut, answer those same stupid questions about how much his being a homosexual had to do with it. And, sorry to say it, but that poor guy (Sam) is going to catch some hell in that locker room or be ostracized by some of his teammates for who he is. That kid Martin in Miami was bullied over his weak personality and the coaching staff did nothing to stop it. Now the Rams coaching staff is going to have to be on top of what is going on in that locker room. So with 90 players in that locker room, that staff will need to keep a special eye on one player to make sure he isn't abused.
That's another debate altogether.
Where did that come from? I'm pretty sure we haven't been talking about gay marriage and how one's views on it relates to being homophobic.
But everyone is entered into a civil union (homosexual or heterosexual) with equal benefits for all. You are formally tied together as spouses by civil unions, and not by marriage. Marriage will solely be a religious institution that yields NO earthly benefits, solely spiritual.
If you don't want to accord equal civil union benefits to all; not only do you fail at a separation of church and state, but you discriminate.
I have no doubt that if Michael Sam was a 1st to 3rd round player, Dungy would deal with the media circus that is about to unfold, but as 7th round talent, there are about 100 other people available that he would not have to answer the same stupid daily questions about, or if he was cut, answer those same stupid questions about how much his being a homosexual had to do with it. And, sorry to say it, but that poor guy (Sam) is going to catch some hell in that locker room or be ostracized by some of his teammates for who he is. That kid Martin in Miami was bullied over his weak personality and the coaching staff did nothing to stop it. Now the Rams coaching staff is going to have to be on top of what is going on in that locker room. So with 90 players in that locker room, that staff will need to keep a special eye on one player to make sure he isn't abused.
Pretty sure he's allowed to say whatever he wants.
Also pretty sure that we're allowed to call him a hypocrite for saying it.
If someone can't take their personal views being criticized, they always have the option of keeping their personal views to themselves.
If you got any compassion, interest in justice and are at all open hearted/minded, you're rotting for Michael Sam because he repents an opportunity for people to be treated as they are. Not just when they beat women, kill dogs, kill people driving drunk, do a bunch of coke they ask the cops if they know who they are…all accepting Michael Sam requires is understanding his sexual orientation is different. Not his 'lifestyle' or whatever that's code for…just who he has sex with. Because that's so fucking important. Anyone 'distracted' by that has issues of their own to work out.
So, yeah. Tony Dungy is an ignorant man.