for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

NFT: New puppy training questions? Help needed!

NYG27 : 7/23/2014 12:35 pm
As a family, we got a new golden retriever puppy (male) on Saturday and he turns just 8 weeks old on Friday. This is our first time trying to train a puppy.

So far it's been a great experiance and our three young kids love him. Here are some of the positives....

1 - He was instantly potty trained and hasn't had any "mistakes" in the house yet. He's real good at going near the door and doing his business within the first 2-3 minutes once we take him outside.

2 - Crate training was hard dealing with the first few nights but he finally got used to it. We did our best to make it a fun\safe place for him as the crate door is open the entire day for him to go to relax in. We put his two favorite toys in there to encourage him to spend time there. We give him treats each time we put him in the crate and close the door on him. Last two nights he goes in the crate at 11pm and sleeps till 5:30am or so till he wakes us up. The older he gets, hopefully the longer he can sleep and in turn let us sleep in a bit more. lol

3 - Everything I've read a tired puppy\dog is a happy one and less destructive in the house. So we're real good at playing with him and so far for every 30-60 minutes we play with him, he takes a 1-2 hour nap.

4 - Training him has been a process but finally making progress. Finally in day 3, he started getting the concept of sit\stay and if he stays in position for 10 seconds without moving, I give him a treat. Took awhile and he's hasn't fully grasped it yet but he is starting too. I also was told as a puppy, I need to get him used to people playing with his feet, ears and teeth so when he's a full grown dog it's easier to deal with grooming him. He didn't like it at first but has gotten used to me giving him a treat\toy or belly rub for letting me play with his paws and ears.

5 - I've ready as a puppy, it's best to introduce him to as many people and different types of dogs as possible. So far, so good. We're making the rounds visiting family members and introducing him to all our friends. We have a large 2 mile walking path around a lake near our house, which is popular to walk dogs around. So we go there once daily and have introduced him to alot of medium to small sized dogs. Still want him wait till he's 6-8 months old and alot bigger before introducing him to larger dogs. So far really good and he's interacted nicely with most all the dogs and never reacts to their barking and is even tempered, which is good news. He even meet a 8 month old German Sheppard puppy last night whose 3-4 times his size and was very even tempered and surprisingly the larger German Sheppard was submissive to him. That shocked me.

Now........here's were we desprately can use help from experiance dog owners\trainers.

1 - Bitting and nibbling. Most items in the house he's shown interest in biting at, we've diverted his attention to a chew toy. We also got this bitter green apple spray that we spray on those locations and that scent on those object aren't as appealing and has fully stopped that behavior on the household furnature.

On the flipside, trying to train him to stop bitting\nibbling at us, especially the kids. I know it's natural behavior for dogs to do that in their packs with other dogs and their way of being playful. I've tried my best to redirect his biting at us to chew toys but to no avail. People said each time he tried to bite, grab his snout and close his mouth and firmly say NO. Been trying that for four days and seen no changes in behavior.

2 - Going for walks. Man is this dog extremely stubborn and not sure if it's just his "Alpha" trait coming through. Prior to us getting him 4 days ago, he never had a harness or leash before. He was born on a farm and had free reign the first 7 weeks of his life, so I'm fully understandable that this is a new experiance for him and one that he's not comfortable or used to yet. We gon't want to walk him with just a collar as afraid that would choke him on walks, so we got a harness for him.

We have 4 steps to get to the side walk and I have never seen him willing to attempt to go down them. We either have to bribe him with a treat, force him down the steps or pick him up and carry him down to the side walk. Then when outside, I let him go exploring a bit but he never wants to leave or walk more then 50 feet radius of our house. LOL.....he always puts his full body weight down and doesn't seem interested in walking or going exploring. I've tried positive re-enforcements, treats, gental tug but simply has no desire at all to go on walks from day one. Only way he will walk is if I shorten his retractable leash so we are side by side and almost force him to walk with me. The second I stop walking, he puts his full body weight down and I have to force him back up to walk which I hate doing and wish there was a better way to handle the situation.

3 - Jumping on the sofa's\couches. He's too small now to even get up on his own but has keep on trying. Especially when we are sitting on them. We want to train him to never sit on the couch as a puppy, so we won't have a fully grown dog doing it. Each time he tries, I try to re-direct him to one of his toys but after a short while, he keeps trying to do it again. Any tips on how to curb this behavior?

I know it was take alot of patience and time training him but would really appricate any step by step instruction or tips on how to correct those three issues I'm having a problem with now. It might be cute that he does that when he's just a 10-15 pound puppy but want to avoid those behaviors when he is a fully grown 60-70 pound dog.

One person told me "Best way to break in a young male puppy and break his Alpha dog tendancy is anytime he acts up, forcefully hold him down and don't let him move for a few seconds. This will re-enforce that you're the Alpha in the household and he needs to be submissive." Is that true??? I really don't want to do that and seems more cruel and trying to go with the path of positive re-enforcement with him.

Also, having some success with training with Sit\Stay with rewarding with treats. Anyone have any useful, details tips tricks that you have used to teach them other tricks? I just have no idea how to best go about it and when or what time table to introduce new tricks for him. Do I spend only a week or two per tick till he's mastered them? Do I introduce a few tricks and consistently keep up with them till he learns them?

Thanks and appricate any feedback!
4 labs trained  
HankF : 7/23/2014 12:56 pm : link
You're doing great. 1-3 are very normal. It will take a couple of months, so patience and consistency are key.
Sounds like you're off to a good start...  
Dan in the Springs : 7/23/2014 12:58 pm : link
Don't have much advice for you but wanted to react to this quote:

Quote:
One person told me "Best way to break in a young male puppy and break his Alpha dog tendancy is anytime he acts up, forcefully hold him down and don't let him move for a few seconds. This will re-enforce that you're the Alpha in the household and he needs to be submissive." Is that true??? I really don't want to do that and seems more cruel and trying to go with the path of positive re-enforcement with him.


I personally agree with the advice given there, depending on the level of alpha dog tendency you are seeing. He needs to learn that your family is the pack and that he is the lowest in the pack, including your kids. I would have each of the kids hold him to submission, while you observe/supervise and make sure they are safe, etc. You DON'T want that relationship to be unclear to him and you DON'T want it tested when you are not around.

I've done that with each of the dogs we've had and it has been key, imo, to getting the pecking order in the house sorted out.

As to your concerns about cruelty - you don't need to hurt him - you need to make him go into the submissive state - which simply means he does not resist/struggle against your command, but gives himself up to you. In that state he will learn to accept his position and he will learn trust and love for the dominant within the pack.
Bitter apple did not work for me  
jjgmrg901 : 7/23/2014 1:01 pm : link
I tried this with a cocker spaniel puppy and she kept the chewing etc.
What did work was Frank's Louisiana Hot Sauce. A friend told me about this.
After I put down on corner of end table she liked the chewing stopped.
Sounds rough but it worked!!
Good luck with jumping on furniture.
RE: Sounds like you're off to a good start...  
NYG27 : 7/23/2014 1:12 pm : link
In comment 11778103 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
As to your concerns about cruelty - you don't need to hurt him - you need to make him go into the submissive state - which simply means he does not resist/struggle against your command, but gives himself up to you. In that state he will learn to accept his position and he will learn trust and love for the dominant within the pack.


Dan, I'm willing to try it but what exactly is the submissive state? Do I hold down his body and hold down his head to the floor so he can move at all? Mind getting into more details on how to do this and how long do you keep him at that submissive state? Few seconds, few minutes?
First, he is still very young but  
mushroom : 7/23/2014 1:20 pm : link
The biting- Sometimes yelling ouch and acting like you are hurt may work (this may or may not work). If he enjoys interacting with you and then bites/nips I would immediately disengage from him, either, by turning your back and ignoring or putting him in his crate.

Be persistent about guarding your couch but regardless of your efforts he will evidently win.

Will he follow a family member while you walk him on leash? You want to make the leash and the walk a fun happy thing.He is still very young I almost guarantee he will be tugging at the leash as he gets older, bigger and more energetic.

Good Luck be patient and persistent and enjoy your new family member

I'd also enroll him in a puppy trainiing class.  
mushroom : 7/23/2014 1:26 pm : link
when he gets a little older. There is most likely a Dog Training Club in your area that offers classes(Just google the Dog Obedience Clubs for your area). A good class trains the owner not the dog.(While stores like Petco,Petsmart etc. offer classes it has been my experience that the local clubs offer better instruction.
About the walks  
Rich F : 7/23/2014 1:30 pm : link
I have a 6 year old golden. He loves to run off leash, but is very stubborn about walks with a leash. He also does the routine of lying down and refusing to move when he is on the leash. We use a "Gentle Leader" harness, which gives us much more control over him. There are two varieties--we use the harness that goes over his chest, which works great. We've never used the gentle leader head collar, so I can't comment on it.
on the biting  
steve in ky : 7/23/2014 1:33 pm : link
Here are things that I have found to work over the years with training my dogs.

As soon as he nips cry out loudly "ouch". Puppies are often instinctively nipping when being social and/or playful and don't realize they are causing pain. This loud reaction will train them when they are biting too hard and it hurts. Then after doing that say in a loud forceful stern voice "No Bite" and tap them lightly on the nose. With time this should end the problem.
submissive state  
haper : 7/23/2014 1:34 pm : link
We have a 13 year old and a 4 month old labs. Our vet recommended the submissive state also; while you're kneeling roll the dog over on her back so you are straddling. Grab her front legs with each of your hands and use your knees and elbows to hold her in place. She will move around like crazy trying to get free and will even try to nip, but after a period of time (should be less than 30 seconds) she will stop and you'll feel her relax; this is when she has given up and you've instilled dominance over her.
Just remember, you are dealing with a baby.  
Peter in Atlanta : 7/23/2014 1:39 pm : link
You have to watch them at all times. Babies put things in their mouth all the time. Through play, they learn boundaries. Little yelps from you can teach them not to nip. Don't play differently than your kids do. It will only confuse the pup.

Don't want them on the couch? NEVER let them on the couch. You have to be consistent.
Consistancy is key. keep doing what you're doing.  
GiantJohn : 7/23/2014 1:39 pm : link
Couple tips:
The dog is a baby and is teething. Everything goes to the mouth. Lot's of toys - to take the place of furniture. One thing I did with my puppy was this and it worked. When my guy decided that he could try to eat me I took him by the mouth and pressed my thunb on his tongue. He did not like that at all. He just needed a reminder once in a while and that stopped. The chewing should stop though with time. As far as walks on the leader. He needs to know what he can and cant do. There is a "gentle leader" which I suggest you get if you don't have. Use that and if you don't want him stopping then this is a more gental way of moving him along without unnecessary strain on his neck. You have to let them know your the boss. Furniture is a matter of repetition. Keep him off it and he will figure it out (maybe)

Good luck.
on the biting  
haper : 7/23/2014 1:43 pm : link
All good advice so far, but every puppy is different and you need to find what works. My 24 year old daughter does the loud "ouch" w mixed results; she also will get up and walk away, basically ignoring the behavior. For me, a loud very deep voiced no is working fine.

It is interesting how both the dogs treat my daughter differently than me and my son; they don't fear my daughter and display bad behavior they don't display around my son and I. The vet explained that this is common bc dogs react differently to deep male voices when being corrected than to high pitched female voice.
Our trainer did the thumb under the tongue when the pup  
Peter in Atlanta : 7/23/2014 1:45 pm : link
was a couple of months old. It took 2 times. She never put her mouth on a person's hand after that.
stairs and going outside  
haper : 7/23/2014 1:47 pm : link
The puppy is probably scared of the steps, ours were at that age; so don't force the puppy to use them. Look it up on google but some ppl recommend dogs not use stairs until they are 16 wks old.

About going outside and exploring; both of our dogs stay very close to us when they were young, then slowing started going off on their own. Again, the puppy is probably afraid but once it gets more confidence you'll see a change.
Constant Repetition Great Rewards  
DelZotto : 7/23/2014 1:51 pm : link
Always remind your self and the children that at 8 weeks he's a Baby, they usually consider that time period when he can be taken from his Mother. A few weeks of dedication can lead to a life time of reward for you and your family. His unconditional love will be exhibited on a daily basis. Make sure you have plenty of leather toys to chew on, they are teething and this helps keep him occupied.
These babies are very social.  
Peter in Atlanta : 7/23/2014 1:57 pm : link
Don't leave it alone on the floor because it will try to get to you on the couch because they want the contact. Training is not going to happen over night. 4 days is not giving things enough time. This is going to take MONTHS.

A dog isn't officially house broken until it goes a year without an accident.
Sounds like you are doing great  
SB : 7/23/2014 2:18 pm : link
that biting and nibbling just sounds like teething. If you don't want him biting certain things you should spray "Yuk!" on it. You can buy it at any pet store.

Fear of stairs is normal. My dog was freaked by stairs until one day she just did it.

Jumping on furniture? Good luck with that. We just gave up on it.
Alot of great advice, keep them coming, appricate any tips  
NYG27 : 7/23/2014 2:23 pm : link
I know as a baby, alot of his biting might be due to his teething and his adult teeth coming in. We recently were giving the tip of getting a sock and putting a little water on it and letting it freeze in the freezer.

We chose a color of sock none of us wear and he really loved it. I guess it was the cool soft chewy sensation soothing his gums and teeth a bit. That is something we'll keep on doing since he really seems to like it.
the advice above is solid...  
Dan in the Springs : 7/23/2014 2:51 pm : link
I would only add that the method you use to hold him still is less important than the resultant behavior. You are looking for him to give up. Stop struggling. Yield. When he has given up you will know it. He will simply lie there passively waiting. You might repeat several times until he goes there instantly whenever you attempt to put him down.
We have raised five Golden Retrievers and they are terrific  
The Duke : 7/23/2014 3:28 pm : link
pets and quickly become part of the family. We currently have two in the house (9 yr old female & 10 yr old male). I agree with most of the advice you have received in this post, including holding them down on their back until they stop struggling. I held mine up under the neck where they couldn't bite me, firmly but gently. Certainly not a choke hold. The idea is to control them and let them know who is in charge. They usually get this idea pretty quickly as it is important for them to learn the pack "pecking order" and their position in it. You never want to hit them to correct behavior, you want them to respect your position in the pack but not be afraid of you. It sounds to me like you have been doing great so far, but remember the pup is only 8 weeks old and may not be ready for very long walks and will lose interest in things quickly, just like a new baby. Remember, this is a big huge new world for them and everything looks and smells differently then what they are used to. They also tire very, very quickly at that age. Focus on only one or two commands at a time so he doesn't get confused and when he seems to master them move on with others. Small treats work well as rewards, even breaking them in half, you don't want to get a fat, lazy dog. We have allowed our dogs up on the couch (only) as we like to have them laying next to us with their heads in our lap. We use a pet cover on the couch and the dogs have learned whenever the cover comes off (i.e., when company is coming, etc.) that they can't get up there then, which works out great for us. You don't want to let then out of the crate in the morning or when you come home from somewhere immediately when they start fussing as it reinforces the wrong behavior. Ignore them and take a few minutes and get up and go in the bathroom, etc. and give them a few minutes to settle down and when they do then release them from the crate and immediately take them outside to relieve themselves. Ongoing interaction with other dogs and people is critical in their development. Lots of love patience and attention goes a long way. If you don't already have some, buy some rawhide treats for them to gnaw on. Nyla bones also work well. Dogs love to chew and especially new puppies with young teeth. Keep consistently correcting their inappropriate behavior and it will eventually change. Like most dogs, the Golden Retriever wants to please you and cement the bond you will soon have, but they are not human and don't always react or respond the way you think they should. Watch and try to learn their behaviors and it will tell you a lot about them and their state of mind. There are many good books on this subject. Good luck, you're going to have a great family friend and companion, treasure him while you can as their lives are very short as compared to our own!
Get rid of the retractable leash  
The Natural : 7/23/2014 3:35 pm : link
you can use that when he is older and trained to go on walks.

For now get a 5 ft leash. Keep your right hand about three feet from his body holding the leash. This will allow you to control him. He will quickly learn that he is to walk at your pace, not his and keep him from getting distracted.

Golden are very smart. I've had two and they were the best dogs I've ever had. It won't take long for him to catch on.

Keep up the good work.!!
At 8 weeks, isn't he at risk to contract Parvo?  
schnitzie : 7/23/2014 4:28 pm : link
My understanding was that you never take a young puppy out where it may have contact with other dogs, as the baby is at risk of catching Parvo and at 8 weeks is too young to have completed all vaccinations for Parvo and too young to have developed any immunity to Parvo.
doing well  
Bleedin Blue : 7/23/2014 4:41 pm : link
the dogs aversion to the leash is not him trying to be alpha it's just he hasn't had one on in his short life. I would keep a collar and a short leash on at all times so he gets used to it. When you go for walks outside stop him before going out before you, never let him out first, you must establish your dominance otherwise he may one day bolt out the door and could get lost or hurt. Get a Kong toy and fill with peanut butter and or treat and let him chew on that that will cut his chewing down and tire him out mentally, dogs need to be stimulated physically and mentally. You should whenever you play with him bring him out to do his business, a young pup will usually need to go after playing. Good luck you're doing a great job.
forgot to add  
Bleedin Blue : 7/23/2014 4:43 pm : link
never pull the leash to lead the dog, he will resist, entice him to follow with a treat. He will learn that following you is a good thing.
RE: At 8 weeks, isn't he at risk to contract Parvo?  
NYG27 : 7/23/2014 5:07 pm : link
In comment 11778665 schnitzie said:
Quote:
My understanding was that you never take a young puppy out where it may have contact with other dogs, as the baby is at risk of catching Parvo and at 8 weeks is too young to have completed all vaccinations for Parvo and too young to have developed any immunity to Parvo.


Schnitzie, he visited with our local vet right after we first got him. He's all updated on his shots and we have him scheduled monthly to get the remaining of his shots as scheduled.

As for as interacting with other dogs, he's too small to deal with big older dogs and have tried avoiding that. Only dogs I let him interact with is medium to small dogs that are currently near his size. No play dates or dog parks as he's to young for that. Just mostly introducing them to random dogs we see walking around the lake and letting them sniff each other.
Back to the Corner