Wasn't the defense falling off a cliff in part due to Antonio Pierce worrying about off field situations on covering up and lying for Plaxico. From his account, after the situation, he was worried more about his off the field issues then what was going on Sundays.
Wasn't the defense falling off a cliff in part due to Antonio Pierce worrying about off field situations on covering up and lying for Plaxico. From his account, after the situation, he was worried more about his off the field issues then what was going on Sundays.
Antonio Pierce was the least of the Giants defensive problems at the end of the season. Unless Pierce shot all of the d-lineman in the legs, none of the d-line issues were because of Pierce. They had nothing in the tank as a line. It was very easy to see
but look at it this way, even if Plaxico was healthy no guarantee we even win that Super Bowl or get to it. And who knows if we win the 2011-2012 super bowl if Plax didnt shoot himself. We likely never take Nicks, who knows if Cruz ever becomes what he was. Things worked out OK for us in the end. Many things could have been different if Plax doesnt shoot himself, including the 2011 season.
As far as I'm concerned, once we hoisted our 2nd trophy in the Eli/TC era, the whole Plax 2008 thing stopped mattering.
That team was awesome for most of the year and it was a hell of a ride watching them just overpower the best teams in football.. but it just wasn't meant to be and didn't happen. No sense in bending over backwards wondering "what if." We didn't win that year. What's done is done.
That 2008 team was rolling and looking very, very strong. Then it all ended with Plaxico shooting himself. That team was a strong contender and then the offense was lost. We couldn't overcome losing our biggest weapon, especially how we lost him.
As far as I'm concerned, once we hoisted our 2nd trophy in the Eli/TC era, the whole Plax 2008 thing stopped mattering.
That team was awesome for most of the year and it was a hell of a ride watching them just overpower the best teams in football.. but it just wasn't meant to be and didn't happen. No sense in bending over backwards wondering "what if." We didn't win that year. What's done is done.
This is sort of how I have come to grips with it, but when I do think back to that season, it's really a shame how it all ended.
That's interesting, because it kinds of goes back to why the Coughlin years don't stack up in my mind to the Parcells years. The Giants won two championships, but they were far from a dominant team either year. Somehow it isn't quite the same feeling to me if you're winning with a team that makes everyone wonder how the hell they did it. If the 2008 team had won it all, no one could have said anything about luck, or breaks, or anything. They would have been THE dominant team of 2008.
The 2010 loss to the Eagles was something I felt similarly about. I really felt like if that meltdown never happened, that team was getting hot at the right time and maybe could have made some noise. But again.. we won it all the next year which basically made it moot to me. Sucks, but we did get 2 recently which is more than about 90%+ of the teams in the league can say.
Greg.. it's just harder to be that type of team in this era. Seattle kinda did it last year but a lot of times now, teams winning it all have been teams of our 2007/2011 ilk where they were decent teams that just got healthy and fired on all cylinders at the perfect time. The 2012 Ravens, the 2010 Packers, etc..
We can question the luck of a lot of these teams now. It won't matter much as history wears on.
why the mayor was so pissed off at Plax.
He should have a sentence of community service teaching young kids about
sports.
If you look at what happened after the shooting there were Federal and two
State laws broken with the transportation of a firearm from N.Y to
N.J.
I also believed his lawyers could have done a better job.
Just think we should have lost a middle line backer as well.
Install new offense, new defense, new coach, new GM, new owner
With the exception of the Panthers' game, we had much difficulty moving the chains with our main receiver or main decoy out. The Eagles late, great DC, Jim Johnson said it was much easier to gameplan against the Giants O without Plax there to keep things honest..That was echoed by Brian Dawkins as well..Yes we had injuries, but we were dead meat by the start of every 4th quarter given the amount of time the D was asked to be on the field..
There is no doubt in my mind that we win the 2008 SB with Plax
The shot not only took Plaxico out of the game but I think it sort of messed up the team's psyche a bit.
I mean, an injury could have happened elsewhere to derail us but I firmly believe we'd have repeated without the shot.
That's 2008 team was nowhere near as good as there
Record was before Plax went down. I was saying it all seasons before the gun shot even happened.
Couldn't disagree more. The 2008 was physically dominating teams, and had the skill on offense to light it up. The Plax injury was a torpedo, but overall it was a team that peaked too soon, unlike the 2007 version
We wouldn't have beat the Eagles in the playoffs even with Plax
Eli was HORRIBLE that day. He was throwing ducks and missing wide open receivers all day. No doubt losing Plax hurt us tremendously, but KG not sticking with the running game hurt as well. They also phased Toomer out down the stretch and in the playoffs. He was on his last legs but he was still effective and had Eli's trust.
Jesus, they went 14-2, nobody could run on them and they poleaxed a Bill Walsh team with Montana and Rice in the playoffs, ran them right off the field. For an encore, they obliterated the Broncos in the second half in a game where the Broncos were helpless to defend the pass.
Finally. Sounds being the key word, and sounds can often not tell the tale. Of course, he was so immature that he couldn't even fake maturity back in the day. Maybe we would have won the SB that year, maybe not. Plax was not playing well that year, and was a pain in the ass off the field. As others have mentioned, had the incident not happened, no Nicks and no 2011 Championship. One thing would have altered the other. If you ask me, things worked out just fine for the Giants, and us. As for him, maybe it did finally make an adult out of him. That maturity may end up keeping him from a very sad and predictable ending. Time will tell.
That 2008 team went toe to toe with some very physical teams
Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Carolina, Philly the first go around, and even Washington had a good defense and run game and the Giants smacked them all in the face. For most of that season they were definitely as good as their record.
RE: We wouldn't have beat the Eagles in the playoffs even with Plax
Eli was HORRIBLE that day. He was throwing ducks and missing wide open receivers all day. No doubt losing Plax hurt us tremendously, but KG not sticking with the running game hurt as well. They also phased Toomer out down the stretch and in the playoffs. He was on his last legs but he was still effective and had Eli's trust.
Eli was horrible but having Plax likely woud have opened up the running game and helped the Giants convert on that 3rd and 4th and 1. A few firt downs and that game could have swung in the Giants favor.
Losing Plax was an enormous deal. Without him, teams were able to blanket the remaining receivers pretty easily. Plax was a decoy for much of the season (Week 1 not withstanding), but teams had to respect him skills and that opened things up for the other receivers. Now teams are respecting the passing game, so that opens up the running game.
When Plax went down, Dallas and Philadelphia no longer had to really respect the assign game, allowing them to focus on stopping the run game.
With Plax, our offense would have been more successful, and even though the defensive line was breaking down, it's not like they completely collapsed. They were, at worst, a bend but rarely break unit.
There's no guarantee we win the Super Bowl that year. But wouldn't you want to have known?
and certainly would have liked to see what happened without the Burress thing. I think the Eagles being a horrible match-up for them hurt, but I do like their chances in winning the NFC if things are set up the same exact way, but with Plax down the stretch (assuming he came back from injury).
But let's not disrespect a Steeler team that went 12-4 and won it all. Yeah we beat them, in Pittsburgh, but it was 21-14. Giants were down 14-9 going into the 4th and that Safety, in which the snap flew over the Punter's head was a huge factor. They also played that game without Santonio Holmes.
I think the Giants were the best team in the NFL that regular season. And if the Plax thing doesn't happen, or even if freaking Tampa can beat Oakland, and the teams the Giants have to contend with are Tampa, the Tarvaris Jackson-led Vikings, the Falcons with Matt Ryan as a rookie, Arizona (who got beat soundly every time they played in the cold that year), and Carolina (good but unpredictable), I do think they win the NFC and get back to the Super Bowl.
But to act they absolutely would have gotten through Pittsburgh, no problem, is not only revisionist, but its really not fair to the Steelers of that year.
Anyone that thinks that losing Plax, made no difference in the end result of the season, is crazy.....
Just look at the difference between the first Philly game with Plax and the second one without him.....
This offense fell apart after he left....they had scored 30 or more points 4 straight games, before the incident....
Then the offense sputtered against Wash, Dallas, and Philly....it was the running game that won the Carolina game....Eli lost his security blanket in Plax....when they needed a big play, he was that option....that option was gone....and I really feel Eli's confidence went with it, too...
And then came the Viking game....the offense was not playing well....the offense knew it would only play the first half....it scored three fg's, and sat down.....it sat down for two more weeks.....this is where I think Coughlin made a mistake......the passing game had not clicked since Plax went down.....going through the motions in the first half against the Vikes was not what the doctor ordered....
The team was rested.....too rested.....they hadn't played a meaningful game in 3 weeks.....they were not sharp....shades of the Packers, losing against the Giants after resting their players in the final games and having a bye....how sharp did their offense look against the Giants?
I thought the defense played well in the playoff game....they gave up just one td....Eli gave up the other....with no passing threat, the defense played in the box against our running game...with a healthy Plax, they would not have been able to do that....
Because the offense could not move the ball, it put more pressure on the defense at the end of the season....losing Osi, at the beginning of the season was a huge loss....losing Plax was an even bigger one....
It was said in the aftermath of that season that Plax was not a big deal because of the "numbers" he had put up during that season and it could be easily replaced by Hixon.
But as we saw, defenses played the Giants completely different the second he was gone. His value went way beyond the statistics.
Just him being a threat changed the way teams defended the offense. He was like the big hitter in baseball. He may not catch a pass the entire game, but a team was not going to be caught not showing him proper respect out of fear he could break a game open.
Add in the running game, and it made for a tremendous combination.
I believe in the two games that followed his absence, Manning barely completed 50% of his passes. I remember the 8 sack game against Dallas that stood out on that Sunday night.
The NFC East teams had all the info they needed to adjust their defense the second Plax left.
Yes the defense began to wear down. But that 3rd Eagles game could have resembled the 1st one in November where they just had to outscore them like they did in that 38-31 victory.
But let's not disrespect a Steeler team that went 12-4 and won it all. Yeah we beat them, in Pittsburgh, but it was 21-14. Giants were down 14-9 going into the 4th and that Safety, in which the snap flew over the Punter's head was a huge factor. They also played that game without Santonio Holmes.
But to act they absolutely would have gotten through Pittsburgh, no problem, is not only revisionist, but its really not fair to the Steelers of that year.
Neumann, that was my thought too.
Even after that season was over, I felt they had the gun scenario not happened, they would have gotten to the Super Bowl, but would have lost to Pittsburgh.
Both of those teams were tremendous. We saw it in that first game at Heinz. If they would have played 10 times, I think each would have won 5. They were that evenly matched.
was a tragedy itself.. They staff never changed the way the offense was run. They had Hixon running the same plays as Plax would have instead of tailoring the plays to Hixon strength..
That team was steamrolling the leagues best that season.. running game was on and everything.. untill... Bang!
Quote:
it was the 2008 Giants
That team was steamrolling the leagues best that season.. running game was on and everything.. untill... Bang!
:(
The pass rush falling off of a cliff at the end of the season would have likely derailed the season anyways.
Quote:
it was the 2008 Giants
The pass rush falling off of a cliff at the end of the season would have likely derailed the season anyways.
Our entire defensive line didn't have a leg under them.
Hard to believe how quickly they wore down.
Antonio Pierce was the least of the Giants defensive problems at the end of the season. Unless Pierce shot all of the d-lineman in the legs, none of the d-line issues were because of Pierce. They had nothing in the tank as a line. It was very easy to see
I love this pic haha
I love this pic haha
Thought that was a pic from camp today :)
That team was awesome for most of the year and it was a hell of a ride watching them just overpower the best teams in football.. but it just wasn't meant to be and didn't happen. No sense in bending over backwards wondering "what if." We didn't win that year. What's done is done.
3rd and 20. Still pisses me off to this day.
That team was awesome for most of the year and it was a hell of a ride watching them just overpower the best teams in football.. but it just wasn't meant to be and didn't happen. No sense in bending over backwards wondering "what if." We didn't win that year. What's done is done.
This is sort of how I have come to grips with it, but when I do think back to that season, it's really a shame how it all ended.
Classic!!! LOL!!
We can question the luck of a lot of these teams now. It won't matter much as history wears on.
Don't steal from Feags - ( New Window )
He should have a sentence of community service teaching young kids about
sports.
If you look at what happened after the shooting there were Federal and two
State laws broken with the transportation of a firearm from N.Y to
N.J.
I also believed his lawyers could have done a better job.
Just think we should have lost a middle line backer as well.
bills....think he is on wife swap next week
With the exception of the Panthers' game, we had much difficulty moving the chains with our main receiver or main decoy out. The Eagles late, great DC, Jim Johnson said it was much easier to gameplan against the Giants O without Plax there to keep things honest..That was echoed by Brian Dawkins as well..Yes we had injuries, but we were dead meat by the start of every 4th quarter given the amount of time the D was asked to be on the field..
I mean, an injury could have happened elsewhere to derail us but I firmly believe we'd have repeated without the shot.
Quote:I'm smart and I want respect!"
Prove it, earn it. Life is actually quite simple when you understand it.
They were absolutely as good as there record. They were running all over teams and the defense was terrific
Couldn't disagree more. The 2008 was physically dominating teams, and had the skill on offense to light it up. The Plax injury was a torpedo, but overall it was a team that peaked too soon, unlike the 2007 version
Yup, we ran for over 200 yards against that Ravens defense. Ray Lewis and company didn't know what hit them in that game
What exactly do you consider "dominant"?
Eli was horrible but having Plax likely woud have opened up the running game and helped the Giants convert on that 3rd and 4th and 1. A few firt downs and that game could have swung in the Giants favor.
Losing Plax was an enormous deal. Without him, teams were able to blanket the remaining receivers pretty easily. Plax was a decoy for much of the season (Week 1 not withstanding), but teams had to respect him skills and that opened things up for the other receivers. Now teams are respecting the passing game, so that opens up the running game.
When Plax went down, Dallas and Philadelphia no longer had to really respect the assign game, allowing them to focus on stopping the run game.
With Plax, our offense would have been more successful, and even though the defensive line was breaking down, it's not like they completely collapsed. They were, at worst, a bend but rarely break unit.
There's no guarantee we win the Super Bowl that year. But wouldn't you want to have known?
But let's not disrespect a Steeler team that went 12-4 and won it all. Yeah we beat them, in Pittsburgh, but it was 21-14. Giants were down 14-9 going into the 4th and that Safety, in which the snap flew over the Punter's head was a huge factor. They also played that game without Santonio Holmes.
I think the Giants were the best team in the NFL that regular season. And if the Plax thing doesn't happen, or even if freaking Tampa can beat Oakland, and the teams the Giants have to contend with are Tampa, the Tarvaris Jackson-led Vikings, the Falcons with Matt Ryan as a rookie, Arizona (who got beat soundly every time they played in the cold that year), and Carolina (good but unpredictable), I do think they win the NFC and get back to the Super Bowl.
But to act they absolutely would have gotten through Pittsburgh, no problem, is not only revisionist, but its really not fair to the Steelers of that year.
Anyone that thinks that losing Plax, made no difference in the end result of the season, is crazy.....
Just look at the difference between the first Philly game with Plax and the second one without him.....
This offense fell apart after he left....they had scored 30 or more points 4 straight games, before the incident....
Then the offense sputtered against Wash, Dallas, and Philly....it was the running game that won the Carolina game....Eli lost his security blanket in Plax....when they needed a big play, he was that option....that option was gone....and I really feel Eli's confidence went with it, too...
And then came the Viking game....the offense was not playing well....the offense knew it would only play the first half....it scored three fg's, and sat down.....it sat down for two more weeks.....this is where I think Coughlin made a mistake......the passing game had not clicked since Plax went down.....going through the motions in the first half against the Vikes was not what the doctor ordered....
The team was rested.....too rested.....they hadn't played a meaningful game in 3 weeks.....they were not sharp....shades of the Packers, losing against the Giants after resting their players in the final games and having a bye....how sharp did their offense look against the Giants?
I thought the defense played well in the playoff game....they gave up just one td....Eli gave up the other....with no passing threat, the defense played in the box against our running game...with a healthy Plax, they would not have been able to do that....
Because the offense could not move the ball, it put more pressure on the defense at the end of the season....losing Osi, at the beginning of the season was a huge loss....losing Plax was an even bigger one....
It was said in the aftermath of that season that Plax was not a big deal because of the "numbers" he had put up during that season and it could be easily replaced by Hixon.
But as we saw, defenses played the Giants completely different the second he was gone. His value went way beyond the statistics.
Just him being a threat changed the way teams defended the offense. He was like the big hitter in baseball. He may not catch a pass the entire game, but a team was not going to be caught not showing him proper respect out of fear he could break a game open.
Add in the running game, and it made for a tremendous combination.
I believe in the two games that followed his absence, Manning barely completed 50% of his passes. I remember the 8 sack game against Dallas that stood out on that Sunday night.
The NFC East teams had all the info they needed to adjust their defense the second Plax left.
Yes the defense began to wear down. But that 3rd Eagles game could have resembled the 1st one in November where they just had to outscore them like they did in that 38-31 victory.
But to act they absolutely would have gotten through Pittsburgh, no problem, is not only revisionist, but its really not fair to the Steelers of that year.
Neumann, that was my thought too.
Even after that season was over, I felt they had the gun scenario not happened, they would have gotten to the Super Bowl, but would have lost to Pittsburgh.
Both of those teams were tremendous. We saw it in that first game at Heinz. If they would have played 10 times, I think each would have won 5. They were that evenly matched.
That was the biggest mistake afterwards..