NFT: The online reaction of cops to the death of Eric Garner

the responses from segments of BBI would have just made me sad.

Every single officer in this arrest should be fired for gross incompetence. Can you imagine making a mistake of analogous magnitude at your job? Even asking that question is awful because you're now trying to find a mistake you could make that would be comparably bad at your job to the police killing a man.

Who wants in?

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kopinyc: A more accurate headline would be "Non Compliant Fat Bastard Gets Just Due In Resisting Law Enforcement Officers" DisGraziato: I guess it's the best thing for his tribe. He probably never worked a legit job. They city will pay off the family and they will be in Nigggaaa heaven for the rest of their lives!!

that's horrible. I felt terrible watching that video.

But I will take the bet that you'll get the defense force of Paterson Plank, Dave inHoboken, Giant24, bc4life, halfback, and a handful of others to trot out the same excuses for the police and/or same arguments to blame the victim.

And the response mostly is "Well, the fat fuck should have complied!"

Yeah, I get that a couple of online forums aren't representative of all law enforcement, but it doesn't seem to be a fringe opinion.

and a complete lack of awareness in believing the officers are the victims for facing scrutiny and criticism.

Amazing.

But nah, this was bad.

But what I've seen over the past few years up close with family members who ran afoul of the law has really soured me on law enforcement a bit.

And yet a helluva lot of cops feel compelled to defend it, and THAT is the crux of what some people consider my "bashing" of the police. It may be a small minority that use excessive force, but the majority who don't routinely refuse to condemn it, and quite of few vociferously defend it.

Instead of these guys becoming pariahs, the cops who DO condemn them become pariahs.

If only we could create robots to enforce the law.

So there should be no rationalization about how "they put their lives on the line EVERY day!" to excuse the appalling actions that took a man's life.

In comment 11778551 GiantsUA said:

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If only we could create robots to enforce the law.

Please step away from the keyboard.

You have 30 seconds to comply.

But, even I have to admit that this seemed to be over the top.

It's sad that someone has to die for there to be any kind of change.

from the cops are pretty disgusting. Just a terrible situation.

Anyone who defends the cops in this case is a fucking idiot.

of what those officers said online were disgraceful, just as as segment of the population has peopel react disgracefully when they feel they are under attack (as police offers are, image-wise at least).

I know I'm in the minority, but I'm not so sure the police officers used such excessive force that it shocks the conscience. I can't say the arrest was justified' it seems as if the cops originally thought he was a part of the fight and after he wasn't, they were trying to get on a stupid selling a loose cigarette charge when there was an actual fight heppening. But I wasn't there. I've only seen the video.

But once the police officers decided to arrest him, he should have complied. Once he started resisting, the cops had to use more force to bring him to the ground to cuff him.

I just think a 350-pound or 400-pound asthmatic smoker is a ticking time bomb, especially one who has worked himself up by screaming at the cops before they actually arrested him.

I'm not excusing the use of the choke-hold by the cops, but someone in such poor health should not be resisting arrest either.

Overall it's just a very tragic situation.

I saw it when it happened, but i never started the thread..I was wondering was it even going to make it to BBI because of the magnitude of what might lead to and the racial implications of it..

Like Kyle, it was going to be people defending the cops to the end..

but the guy shouldn't have raised (even slightly) his arms up and/or said "don't touch me man." And he did just that.

If you don't want cops to beat you down, don't fucking resist. It's that simple. Maybe the cops did act a little too forceful but the bottom line is if this guy stands down he's alive today.

I am certain a cop won't kill me because I won't give them a reason to use force.

This story is bullshit. No one should die like that but this story is pure bullshit.

In comment 11778572 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:

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from the cops are pretty disgusting. Just a terrible situation. Anyone who defends the cops in this case is a fucking idiot.

The comments are disturbing. These are police officers basically condoning what these cowards did.

blaming his weight for their own incompetence.

In comment 11778580 djm said:

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but the guy shouldn't have raised (even slightly) his arms up and/or said "don't touch me man." And he did just that. If you don't want cops to beat you down, don't fucking resist. It's that simple. Maybe the cops did act a little too forceful but the bottom line is if this guy stands down he's alive today. I am certain a cop won't kill me because I won't give them a reason to use force. This story is bullshit. No one should die like that but this story is pure bullshit.

Food for thought.

Maybe, just maybe, the responsibility for the police beating someone down lies with the police who do the beatdown?

Maybe, too, the reason why the dead guy is dead is the people who killed him?

In comment 11778513 Greg from LI said:

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And the response mostly is "Well, the fat fuck should have complied!" Yeah, I get that a couple of online forums aren't representative of all law enforcement, but it doesn't seem to be a fringe opinion.

Yeah, definitely not a fringe opinion. I miss cop threads on this board here and there, but isn't it well-established and accepted by now that a good many cops are assholes? If even just 10% of them are, that's quite a few people who'd be inclined to make such posts. And I think it's well more than 10%.

In comment 11778589 Kyle said:

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In comment 11778580 djm said: Quote: but the guy shouldn't have raised (even slightly) his arms up and/or said "don't touch me man." And he did just that. If you don't want cops to beat you down, don't fucking resist. It's that simple. Maybe the cops did act a little too forceful but the bottom line is if this guy stands down he's alive today. I am certain a cop won't kill me because I won't give them a reason to use force. This story is bullshit. No one should die like that but this story is pure bullshit. Food for thought. Maybe, just maybe, the responsibility for the police beating someone down lies with the police who do the beatdown? Maybe, too, the reason why the dead guy is dead is the people who killed him?

Shhh...Dont post rational thoughts here.

The guy was an idiot and the story is bullshit!

and I can't even begin to imagine what it's like to be a cop. But I can try. I can't sit here and play Monday morning QB with shit like this. If I was a cop i'd be fucking nervous. You raise your arms even in the least and say "don't touch me" and I am taking action.

There is no doubt that some cops are assholes. Some should be behind bars or even worse. Some cops do go too far or use poor judgement. Maybe this situation is one of those times...but I still say, if you act like an asshole to cops and raise even the slightest bit of tension, you are just asking for trouble. Cops die every year. Cops watch their partners die every year. I can't really kill these guys if they get a little twitchy. Shit...they are probably right more often than not.

In comment 11778572 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:

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from the cops are pretty disgusting. Just a terrible situation. Anyone who defends the cops in this case is a fucking idiot.

You know who'd probably be here defending the cops right now if he hadn't been banned?

I do. He's apparently a towering connoisseur of cinema.

but when they get twitchy, they can kill you.

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I am certain a cop won't kill me because I won't give them a reason to use force.

I wouldnt be surprised if the kid who got killed for holding a fucking video game controller thought the same exact thing.

In comment 11778580 djm said:

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If you don't want cops to beat you down, don't fucking resist. It's that simple.

I've always held firm to that same edict. Essentially, you want to give the same advise to a suspect as you would a mugging victim who should just fork over the wallet with no resistance.

and when I say the story is bullshit...I don't mean it's full of lies or full of misinformation. I mean it's gonna be impossible to decipher right from wrong. It's a fucking shit show. Like I said, who is to say from the comforts of the safe world we live in that the cops used too much force? Who knows what this guy was capable of or what the next guy is capable of?

It's an impossible situation. It's bullshit. Get it?

Death by heart attack induced by a choke hold the commissioner says is a no-no and in the rulebook is quite another.

?

really truly believe that these cops deliberately murdered this guy? That they went in wanting to kill this guy? All in broad fucking daylight?

I think we can all agree that until evidence surfaces, these cops just made a mistake...that these weren't malicious actions more they didn't read the situation as the guy was on the ground...

So if you believe the cops simply used poor judgement that clearly stemmed from the guy's refusal to stand down and act rational I think we can agree that this is a murky situation.

and I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to police because most I have known are good people trying to do a very hard job in an environment few of us can fully understand.

Having said that, that video is not someone who accidentally died because of his own stupidity. That is a man who was murdered by an overzealous idiot, and it was allowed to happen by several others who should have stopped it. The guy applying the chokehold should be in prison. The rest of them had a responsibility to protect that man and failed. None of them should ever put on a shield after they serve their deserved time behind bars.

With the authority the police are given they have a responsibility to use it judicisouly, and use force only as a lass resort. Applying a chokehold on a man laying on the ground held by several other officers is not possibly justifiable.

The comments from that forum are incomprehensible. Hopefully those are mostly former officers who are no longer in a position of authority or in contact with the public because they are a threat.

In comment 11778599 Kyle said:

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but when they get twitchy, they can kill you.

Actually you can kill a cop. It happens all the time.

In comment 11778617 Dave in Buffalo said:

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?

Garner went into cardiac arrest while lying face down on the sidewalk in handcuffs and was pronounced DOA at Richmond University Medical Center.

if the evidence or rules say that one of the cops went too far, then he will get his in the end.

Ill leave it at that.

"This anti-cop mentality of yours! I don't know what the police have done to you in the past but they may save your life one day in!

Ask any doctor, if you are talking, you CAN breathe. You cannot talk without breathing, simple as that. "I can't breathe, I can't breathe." A lot of individuals lie and use those words to get the cops to back off so they can attempt an escape or gain the upper hand.

Yes, choking is not allowed in our procedures but if it were my life against another and that was the only option, I would rather be judged by twelve than carried by six. Now you may see from the video it wasn't a life or death situation to require choking. Turns out from the medical coroner reports that the man didn't die from choking but from cardiac arrest (There was no throat damage, or any signs of sabotaging air supply). It was just a piss poor take down attempt on that cops part and he will be punished for that, even the appearance of a choke hold will hurt him even though he wasn't choking the guy. Things should have been done differently but when you're in the heat of the moment and you have tunnel vision...put yourself in their shoes.

This all could have been avoided if the deceased didn't resist arrest because he was caught in the act, breaking a "draconian law." Don't blame the enforcers, blame the lawmakers you voted for, for creating such laws."

I can understand the POV that suspects can say "I can't breathe" only to be let up and then pull out a weapon and use it. But that is a real stretch imo.

Furthermore the cop who performed the choke hold has a history.

Instead of choking people to death because of lost tax revenue maybe don't cost your city 30 grand in settlement expenses (not counting legal fees costs etc)
Officer Pantaleo - ( New Window )

In comment 11778619 djm said:

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really truly believe that these cops deliberately murdered this guy? That they went in wanting to kill this guy? All in broad fucking daylight? I think we can all agree that until evidence surfaces, these cops just made a mistake...that these weren't malicious actions more they didn't read the situation as the guy was on the ground... So if you believe the cops simply used poor judgement that clearly stemmed from the guy's refusal to stand down and act rational I think we can agree that this is a murky situation.

What I think is, too many of these stories coming out in the news. Police using excessive force is a problem. There are too many of these assholes being hired that think their badge gives them carte blanche to do what ever the fuck they want.

Read some of those posts from A POLICE MESSAGE BOARD in which you MUST confirm you are a police officer. They're practically fucking rooting these guys on. It's sickening.

You wonder why people dont trust the police? Look no further.

I trust people even less...

and struggling for air can eek out "I can't breathe." It probably doesn't mean they are lying.

And let's not pretend this was a struggle for survival between a cop and a citizen. The chokehold was still being applied when the citizen was laying on the ground with several officers laying on him. Releasing the chokehold would have put absolutely nobody's life in danger.

In comment 11778638 djm said:

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I trust people even less...

An inconveniently, policemen are people with more power (and often, more impunity) than average people.

In comment 11778638 djm said:

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I trust people even less...

That we agree on. People suck.

That got punched directly in the face by a cop and I never even got arrested during this same actual interaction. The cop didn't like me because I was trying to buy weed in NY and I was from jersey and Yada Yada Yada...cold cocked by a cop.

I'm gonna steal that "hamburger shovels" line from SAPDMAS

you don't think he knew how and how to comply? Sure he wasn't a model citizen, but the cops knew him by name and he was an easy arrest to pad their statistics. But old number 99 was not content with slapping on the cuffs, he was a fucking tough guy who took no shit. Enjoy prison, your asshole will become very elastic

"Hamburger Shovels" is what I'm taking away from this story as well. lol

In comment 11778580 djm said:

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but the guy shouldn't have raised (even slightly) his arms up and/or said "don't touch me man." And he did just that. If you don't want cops to beat you down, don't fucking resist. It's that simple. Maybe the cops did act a little too forceful but the bottom line is if this guy stands down he's alive today. I am certain a cop won't kill me because I won't give them a reason to use force. This story is bullshit. No one should die like that but this story is pure bullshit.

So during a mele, a suspect may not comply. Then it is up to the police officers to do their job and they are trained to do it a certain way. The choke hold he employed was one they were told not to use and the suspect died because of it.

At that point, I'm not as concerned about the suspect saying, "Don't touch me" when I weigh it against him being killed for it.

He didn't die because he said "Don't touch me". He died because of a wrongfully used choke hold not condoned by the police department. The suspect did something wrong. The cop who was trained on how to deal with someone resisting, did something mortally wrong.

By the cop to grab him around the neck but I want to hear an easy way to get a 400 lb resisting man into handcuffs.

He was in bad health and 99 out of 100 times they take down a guy this size the same way and cuff him with no issues. You don't resist arrest, it never ends well, have your day in court and explain it to the judge. What are cops supposed to do when someone refuses to comply and let them put handcuffs on them regardless of what the suspected crime was, just let them go? Should they have tazed him instead? Shot him?

They should have stopped choking him when he was laying face down on the ground with several officers on top of him. This really isn't a gray area.

so they are justified in being violent assholes" line of reasoning simply doesn't hold water. There are lots of jobs out there more dangerous than being a cop -- and the most common cause of death for cops is routine traffic accidents.

As a society, we need to stop militarizing our police, both in terms of equipment and mentality, and start holding them more accountable for their actions. That means we all have to stop making excuses for the amped-up meathead who abuse their authority.
Link - ( New Window )

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If you don't want cops to beat you down, don't fucking resist. It's that simple. Maybe the cops did act a little too forceful but the bottom line is if this guy stands down he's alive today.

It's not that simple. You're saying this from the point of view of someone (I assume) level-headed and non erratic. Cops (esp urban ones) consistently deal with extremely erratic, oftentimes mentally ill people. You're basically saying to unstable, maybe ill people "don't be that way".

That's not to say resisting is okay. You or I as level-headed, functioning adults would not resist and would have zero excuse if we did. But this guy does not seem like he's all there and it's the cops fucking jobs to be able to diffuse a situation without killing people (a caveat being if the person is armed, then I tend to have more sympathy for over the top force).

This was disgusting. It's the dude's fucking windpipe. It was the same shit with Kelly Thomas. They get away with it. Need policy changes from Bratten.

Sidenote: cell phone cameras are great. A huge net plus for society.

So would a response by the 4 EMT technicians on site who instead stood and watched.

Why didn't anyone check to see how he was doing?

But what about the main theme of the thread: how other cops and ex-cops are reacting to the incident? Aren't there posts just a tad disturbing even to the reflexive cop defenders?

their

In comment 11778748 santacruzom said:

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But what about the main theme of the thread: how other cops and ex-cops are reacting to the incident? Aren't there posts just a tad disturbing even to the reflexive cop defenders?

Tazing may have been better but police officers in NYC don't carry takers. Also What if he has a heart attack after being taxed though? I'm sure the outrage would be the same.

At least no one in this one said "You see these fists? They're about to fuck you up"

on a daily basis. You really don't have any sense of what exactly the police are really dealing with.

I am a criminal defense attorney and yet I side with these officers. I tell all my clients, DONT FIGHT WITH THE POLICE. DONT RESIST ARREST.

Above every other duty these officers have is the duty to return home alive and in one piece at the end of the shift. If you don't comprehend what they have to deal with every day, then you can't sympathize with them when they encounter an enormous human being, with a long record, who simply won't act as instructed, and who would be capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death upon any individual cop.

If he had simply put his hands behind his back as instructed, he'd be alive. An if he was unbalanced and couldn't follow the instructions, then the officers have to protect themselves first, That's what they did in the course of their duty to all of us.

In comment 11778759 FatHeadTommy said:

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on a daily basis. You really don't have any sense of what exactly the police are really dealing with.

Yeah, but I still don't think I'd be the sort of cop who either commits such actions, or cheers on those who do.

it is prototypical excessive force. There were 5 or 6 cops smushing this man's face to the concrete, choking him out, and laying on top of him. Two other cops were nearby. The victim had no weapon and had his hands were not even attempting to touch any of the officers--- they weren't even closed in a fist. I don't even see how he was resisting arrest. This video disturbed and disgusted me more than any I've seen in some time. The entire incident was non-threatening and non-violent, unless the victim did something heinous that was edited out.

This looks like manslaughter to me. And as for the poster's friend who said that you can't talk while choking. That is patently untrue. I watched a man choke to death right in front of me once, saying the exact same thing, until he couldn't say it anymore.

Cops share a worldview and need reassurance from one another. That they lack reasonable judgement and intelligence to see it any other way is a fact citizens need to be aware of.

In comment 11778748 santacruzom said:

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But what about the main theme of the thread: how other cops and ex-cops are reacting to the incident? Aren't there posts just a tad disturbing even to the reflexive cop defenders?

santa, yes, that actually gives some insight into the mentality of many cops.

I mean the getting away with it part.

And you know they will...

Because he's this big fat guy...

This sort of arrest probably happens countless times every day: some fat guy liquored up at the townie bar in South Dakota, some fat guy causing a scene on the corner in South Central, some fat chick stealing people's beach equipment on South Beach. Arrests where the guy puts up some nonsensical token resistance.

We don't hear about countless deaths every day. Why is that? Because those arrests happen properly and the person doesn't die. Police detain them, toss them in the back of a squad car, and dump their fat ass in a cell for the night.

So, I ask the Police Defense Force on this thread: if it's so hard and we don't know how it can be done and there's such danger, why in the hell is it able to be done routinely with no incident? And if it can be done routinely with no incident, why can't you admit that these officers, unlike the countless others, fucked up royally?

is a lot different than a civilian. We see a guy selling cigs and trying to give people what they want, they see a very large and potentially dangerous perp not complying.

That said, the video looks awful.

I'm not really sure what the right thing is here because I knew guys that made side cash back in the day selling what they could out of their trunks and none were hardcore.. just guys trying to get some extra scratch.

should not automatically result in one's death

Besides the scenarios you made up, Show me where a 400lb resisting men routinely get arrested without anyone getting hurt. There's nothing routine about arresting a large individual who is resisting. Did the cop make a bad choice in grabbing his throat? Yes, but don't make it seem like its easy and happens everyday. In the heat of the moment facing some one more than twice ur size a rash decision can easily be made. No one here knows how they would've reacted if put in the same situation.


In comment 11778798 Kyle said:

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Because he's this big fat guy... This sort of arrest probably happens countless times every day: some fat guy liquored up at the townie bar in South Dakota, some fat guy causing a scene on the corner in South Central, some fat chick stealing people's beach equipment on South Beach. Arrests where the guy puts up some nonsensical token resistance. We don't hear about countless deaths every day. Why is that? Because those arrests happen properly and the person doesn't die. Police detain them, toss them in the back of a squad car, and dump their fat ass in a cell for the night. So, I ask the Police Defense Force on this thread: if it's so hard and we don't know how it can be done and there's such danger, why in the hell is it able to be done routinely with no incident? And if it can be done routinely with no incident, why can't you admit that these officers, unlike the countless others, fucked up royally?

The majority of us understand what an individual or ourselves "should" do in the case that we are apprehended by a law enforcement officer. That does not mean that we believe that a person necessarily "has" to act in such a matter without being assaulted by an officer, nor would I expect this to occur

I'd also add that we have thousands of military veterans that I'm sure have faced situations and challenges relatively similar to those faced by police officers. I'd be curious to hear their opinion on matters such as these

In comment 11778547 Joey in VA said:

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But what I've seen over the past few years up close with family members who ran afoul of the law has really soured me on law enforcement a bit.

I was a staunch conservative Republican white businessman, the exact demographic that would be defending the police, and I used to. But I've seen too much. The profession draws too many bad apples. I know they try to weed them out, but there are certain guys who crave power and authority and they can get it on the force, not having to go to college or achieve anything that would give them the status they crave, just a relatively short training course and bingo ... power and authority. Not saying this is the norm for cops, just that there's too many.

for you then RiverMike.

I agree with it. Cops typically leaned right despite being unionized public employees Republicans typically favored the tough on crime approach that kept them well funded and happy. Now with our debt times are changing and a Libertarian/Tea Party/Some might say quasi -Anarchistic voice is getting louder regarding cops that differ from their traditional friendly tones.

Not good for police when the traditional liberal left and the new far right Tea Party find this common ground. Senators Booker and Paul even agree on this.


I think the political problem for Republicans is do they really need yet another large group of people to ostracize? Take all the help you can get politically. Idealogically though, this article speaks volumes.
It's Time Conservatives Stop Defending Police - ( New Window )

In comment 11778840 Mr. Nickels said:

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for you then RiverMike. I agree with it. Cops typically leaned right despite being unionized public employees Republicans typically favored the tough on crime approach that kept them well funded and happy. Now with our debt times are changing and a Libertarian/Tea Party/Some might say quasi -Anarchistic voice is getting louder regarding cops that differ from their traditional friendly tones. Not good for police when the traditional liberal left and the new far right Tea Party find this common ground. Senators Booker and Paul even agree on this. I think the political problem for Republicans is do they really need yet another large group of people to ostracize? Take all the help you can get politically. Idealogically though, this article speaks volumes. It's Time Conservatives Stop Defending Police - ( New Window )

Nickles, notice I said "was". Can't comment much more than that without triggering the "political" sirens.

I never saw a thread on the cop in California beating the woman on the side of the road. That was one of the most indefensible thing I've ever seen.

Unfortunately many cops are now more aligned as military gang members than keepers of the peace. Police take to serve and protect as "protect me first" and screw the public. Its not all cops or all police squads but certainly too many. They are losing across the board the trust of the public they swore to protect. A change is gonna come. End rant.

but I feel if he did not resist arrest it would not have happened. I have been arrested 5 times and weather I agreed with the cops or not, I complied, went to court and was never convicted of anything.

I just believe if an officer declares you under arrest you should comply and follow their direction. If you did nothing wrong the court should be able to figure that out..

I do not agree with telling an officer, NO you are not arresting me

With the officer. However, there was no reason for the escalation of force from the officer. The lack of first aid was terrible. In defense of the officers who arrive after, they have no idea what they're walking into. U pull up and and guys are wrestling w someone. You jump in and help no questions asked.

Exactly. No thinking either. Just jump in to be in. That's the problem.

objecting to your civil rights being violated? Should that get you beaten or killed? Of course you comply to keep from getting beaten or killed. So no matter how unlawful or humiliating an officers orders are, comply or be beaten. Not saying that was the case here, just saying its a sad state of affairs if we all cower no matter what the circumstances out of fear for our lives. That woman on the highway did nothing to deserve the punches being rained down on her by the gloved fists of the cop while she lay on the ground trying to cover up.

a dozen people being tried for murder.

Forget losing their jobs...they should be tried for the crime they committed just like anybody else would be.

In comment 11779101 Go Terps said:

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a dozen people being tried for murder. Forget losing their jobs...they should be tried for the crime they committed just like anybody else would be.

I agree wholeheartedly, but I figured I would toss out "how about we at least fire them?" to see if there'd be a defense force for even that level of repercussion for killing another man.

Sadly, there is...

Are absolutely pathetic.

for cops to just search you, profile, you and harass you just because and us great citizens should just obey and not being upset that you are being arrested for doing nothing..

And i guess it's ok that they know this guy has been selling cigarettes that can just shake him down again and arrest him..And when he saying, "I can't breathe", maybe he's lying and has a shotgun in his wait and going to pull it out and shoot all 5 police officers..


it's all well and dandy until you find yourself consistently frisked and harassed by police when at some point, you get tired of it..Or find yourself getting arrested for doing nothing but breaking up a fight..

also filled in a point I was unaware of.

He had committed no crime. He was helping break up a fight. I assume they presumed him to be involved but by all accounts, he actually did nothing wrong here.

it was part of the original article in the news..aparrently a lot of here are omitting that little known fact..

In comment 11778767 WideRight said:

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Cops share a worldview and need reassurance from one another. That they lack reasonable judgement and intelligence to see it any other way is a fact citizens need to be aware of.

Sorry, this is pretty much BS.

They do somewhat share a worldview based on where they work. They absolutely do not lack reasonable judgement and intelligence, unless you want to go on an individual by individual basis.

The difficulty IMO with the police and their "worldview" is that it is entirely shaped by their environment. When you deal day in and day out with (for the most part) the dregs of society it can be very difficult for it to not change your view towards people in general.

I have a friend who is an officer that went from "working the beat" to vice, to finally a cushy desk job working directly for the commissioner. In our conversations about this type of stuff he always tells me that when he was on the street and working vice, his view of people completely changed- especially working vice. I'm not sure about other cities, but here in KC most of the police work in vice involves children. Try to deal with that day in and day out and not have you view changed.

Now that said- it absolutely doesn't absolve cops like the one's in this instance- they still have to act within the law.

It does, however add a little understanding as to why the police have this different worldview in the first place.

What's the answer? I have no idea. But to just label the police as stupid, ignorant brutes is absolutely not it.

And as to the OP: those comments are absolutely horrid and I really hope they aren't a good representation of what most officers think of this particular incident.

In comment 11779417 Greg from LI said:

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What is the story behind that gif? It's really disturbing.

I just did a search for "stop resisting gif"

In comment 11779417 Greg from LI said:

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If this gif is from Austin, TX, then that girl may have been a jogger who jaywalked. The cop was calling out to her but, she had on headphones and couldn't hear him until it was too late. The Spirit of Justice then Ray Riced her.

This is the girl in Austin

Was the apparent lack of compassion when it appeared he was dying. As I read it neither the police or medics made any attempts at CPR so basically just let him die.

He of course very well may have died anyway, but how do they act do cavalier about the mans life?

The arrest, the choke hold all of that can possibly be explained away to some extent because of his size and maybe resisting arrest, so even if you put that aside how do they just let a man die and apparently if what I read was correct do little to nothing? I find the lack of concern or compassion is disgusting.

but resisting arrest is always the worst decision you can make. I still don't get why people do it, and never will.

do not include the cop who put on the so-called choke-hold. He did not have any damage to his windpipe, nor any inability to breathe.

The top 5, imo, are the sergeant at the scene who made no attempt to control the situation or have his condition checked
while his was lying there moaning "I can't breathe," and the medical technicians who made no attempt to intervene in order to check his vitals. They killed him, not a pretty weak-assed choke-hold.

I meant from the choke-hold per se. As it turns out, he was having a heart attack. I kind of feel sorry for the original cop, who is taking most of the blame. He was attempting to take down someone twice his size, who had a horrible arrest record and was clearly resisting. It turned out the guy may not have been guilty of the crime charged, but that isn't the point. No one checked his vitals as he lay there moaning, with a sergeant and 4 medics on the scene. THAT's the point.

All the BS that this was a racially motivated arrest is just that. This was a very large albeit small-time career criminal.

Btw, I still don't see why a tazer wouldn't have been preferable to wrestling with a grizzly bear. Less risk to all involved, and they surely would have checked his vitals after a taze.

In comment 11779643 manh george said:

Quote:

I meant from the choke-hold per se. As it turns out, he was having a heart attack. I kind of feel sorry for the original cop, who is taking most of the blame. He was attempting to take down someone twice his size, who had a horrible arrest record and was clearly resisting. It turned out the guy may not have been guilty of the crime charged, but that isn't the point. No one checked his vitals as he lay there moaning, with a sergeant and 4 medics on the scene. THAT's the point. All the BS that this was a racially motivated arrest is just that. This was a very large albeit small-time career criminal. Btw, I still don't see why a tazer wouldn't have been preferable to wrestling with a grizzly bear. Less risk to all involved, and they surely would have checked his vitals after a taze.

Do they carry tazers? I thought someone above mentioned that they do not.

Seems like you agree with the worldview issue, but object to labeling it a judgement and intelligence issue. But you're appalled by the comments and find the video disturbing?

Your corect its not right to label an entire group, but in cases where they weild significant power I don't think its wise to consider it any other way.

If MO is for Missouri, have you had a chance to speak to any NYPD about the case? Even the upstanding officers are very dismissive. One went into great detail about how the officer attempted to grad him around the shoulders, but the guy was so big it inadvertantly became a chokehold - honest mistake in the line of duty. Another's issue wasn't defending the officer, but was extremely upset that Braxton wnet public before any investigation was complete - police will never be able to police anymore. And these are guys I like...

In comment 11779662 WideRight said:

Quote:

Seems like you agree with the worldview issue, but object to labeling it a judgement and intelligence issue. But you're appalled by the comments and find the video disturbing? Your corect its not right to label an entire group, but in cases where they weild significant power I don't think its wise to consider it any other way. If MO is for Missouri, have you had a chance to speak to any NYPD about the case? Even the upstanding officers are very dismissive. One went into great detail about how the officer attempted to grad him around the shoulders, but the guy was so big it inadvertantly became a chokehold - honest mistake in the line of duty. Another's issue wasn't defending the officer, but was extremely upset that Braxton wnet public before any investigation was complete - police will never be able to police anymore. And these are guys I like...

Yeah- I wasn't clear. The part I thought was BS was labeling them all as not being intelligent and not being able to reason.

Secondary to this, I'm glad to see NYC taking putting the necessary manpower out on the street to battle the loosey cigarette epidemic.

In comment 11779417 Greg from LI said: Here's the backstory on that gif

Quote:

Backstory : PHOENIX - An officer is under investigation for using excessive force after YouTube video is posted of him pushing a teenage girl against a wall, knocking her to the ground. Phoenix Police Officer Patrick Larrison has been placed on administrative while the criminal and internal investigation is underway. The use-of-force case incident caught on tape. A Phoenix Police employee saw the video and told supervisors. Back in January, at Ombudsman Charter School, the 15-year-old girl was caught drinking at school. When her mom arrived, she and her mom got into a physical fight, and the police were called. She was apparently belligerent and walked away from officers. That's when Officer Larrison used an 'impact push' to stop her and handcuff her.

She was belligerant and walked away, so clearly the only recourse to stop a 15 year old girl was for a grown man to lay her out NFL-style.

And not even a clean NFL hit. I think that hit draws a personal foul flag on the field.

Oh for crying loud...

The gif is from the Austin incident.

Quote:

Acevedo reiterated that the woman was placed under arrest because she failed to identify herself, not for resisting arrest. But still the criticism on social media is that the officers used excessive force... Acevedo contends the woman knew full well that officers were trying to stop her, but she still decided to act the way she did. Acevedo said to reporters that if he were the attending officer, he would have probably arrested her for resisting arrest. Speaking via Twitter about the incident, Acevedo noted that Austin police made 28 contacts, issued seven citations, and handed out warnings to offenders during the initiative which Stephen became a part of. A UT student named Christopher Quintero began taking pictures and video of the developing scene, which escalated into Stephen crying on the ground in handcuffs. She reportedly refused to give the officers her name. Stephen was eventually put into a squad car, where on the video you can hear her screaming at police. She was then taken to jail for booking. Quintero's video and pictures quickly went viral once he put them up on his own blog Thursday. He later told the Austin American-Statesman that he thought Stephen handled the situation "poorly" with police.

Handling it badly or not, nothing justified a full body tackle from behind, of course.
Link - ( New Window )

She could have had hairspray on her, and sprayed him in the face! Or played a Justin Bieber song on her phone! The man's life could have been in danger for God's sake - don't you want that officer to go home safely at the end of his shift?

Look at the picture - it's clearly a different girl. The girl in Austin had blonde braids and Five Fingers-type running shoes. The girl in the gif has dark, loose hair and looks like she's wearing Chuck Taylors.

Btw, when it comes to excessive force, no one is in Albequerque's league.


Link - ( New Window )

I'm glad I have no reason to ever be in Albaquerque

fired? of course not - also he's a preemptive fuck off to Rob - ( New Window )

.

of an incident involving my closest friend with the police. Mt friend had a cage insreted on his spine and came out of the incident a paraplegic. After years of PT he was able to walk with assistence, crutches or a walker. Sitting on his own front porch a cop car pulled up cop got out of his car and said there was a complaint about a barking dog. My friend said it wasn't from his dog. The officer told him to produce identification. Friend objected, saying he was sitting on his own porch not bothering anyone. Officer said show identification or I'll bring you down to the station.

My friend said alright, I'll go down to the station, let me get my crutches. At that point the cop grabbed him, threw him to the ground and yelled "you don't need no God damned crutches". Cop turned him over, pushed his knee into my friend's spine and cuffed him, then threw him into the car. My friend objected to what he felt was an unwarrented trampling on his rights when he was at his house doing nothing wrong. But that aside, the key is that he did not resist arrest, he was complying and only asked to get his crutches.

I have no doubt some of you will say its his fault, he should have produced an ID. I disagree, and again, he did not resist arrest and the officer's action was TOTALLY unwarranted.

"out of the surgery", nout "out of the incident"

"out of the surgery", not "out of the incident"

In comment 11779810 manh george said:

Quote:

The gif is from the Austin incident. Quote: Acevedo reiterated that the woman was placed under arrest because she failed to identify herself, not for resisting arrest. But still the criticism on social media is that the officers used excessive force... Acevedo contends the woman knew full well that officers were trying to stop her, but she still decided to act the way she did. Acevedo said to reporters that if he were the attending officer, he would have probably arrested her for resisting arrest. Speaking via Twitter about the incident, Acevedo noted that Austin police made 28 contacts, issued seven citations, and handed out warnings to offenders during the initiative which Stephen became a part of. A UT student named Christopher Quintero began taking pictures and video of the developing scene, which escalated into Stephen crying on the ground in handcuffs. She reportedly refused to give the officers her name. Stephen was eventually put into a squad car, where on the video you can hear her screaming at police. She was then taken to jail for booking. Quintero's video and pictures quickly went viral once he put them up on his own blog Thursday. He later told the Austin American-Statesman that he thought Stephen handled the situation "poorly" with police. Handling it badly or not, nothing justified a full body tackle from behind, of course. Link - ( New Window )

No it's not. The Austin woman was blonde. Here is an image of the Austin Woman. I have the right backstory:

Luckily, that cop is part of a "brotherhood" of "heroes".

What a crock of shit.

Here's the whole video.

Dude immediately runs her down and gives her the atomic impact push as soon as he arrives on the scene.



Ouchies - ( New Window )

In comment 11780208 Cam in MO said:

Quote:

Here's the whole video. Dude immediately runs her down and gives her the atomic impact push as soon as he arrives on the scene. Ouchies - ( New Window )

He's a real hero, and a real human being.

In comment 11780208 Cam in MO said:

Quote:

Here's the whole video. Dude immediately runs her down and gives her the atomic impact push as soon as he arrives on the scene. Ouchies - ( New Window )

Guy gets out of the truck at 1:46 and takes her out by 1:59.

13 seconds evidently was more than enough time to get her to stop and come back to the scene as well as determine that she was some sort of threat I guess.

In comment 11779793 Ralph.C said:

Quote:

In comment 11779417 Greg from LI said: Here's the backstory on that gif Quote: Backstory : PHOENIX - An officer is under investigation for using excessive force after YouTube video is posted of him pushing a teenage girl against a wall, knocking her to the ground. Phoenix Police Officer Patrick Larrison has been placed on administrative while the criminal and internal investigation is underway. The use-of-force case incident caught on tape. A Phoenix Police employee saw the video and told supervisors. Back in January, at Ombudsman Charter School, the 15-year-old girl was caught drinking at school. When her mom arrived, she and her mom got into a physical fight, and the police were called. She was apparently belligerent and walked away from officers. That's when Officer Larrison used an 'impact push' to stop her and handcuff her.

Impact push. I'm going to put that one in the memory bank for later.

NJ.com just released a story regarding the state paying $150k towards the settlement of a lawsuit stemming from a man seriously injured in an accident caused by a State Trooper that was then covered up.

Apparently the off-duty officer was never tested for alcohol consumption by his fellow officers at the scene, who also used the off-duty officer's undercover alias on the accident report which prevented the injured victim from identifying the man that caused his accident. The officer was later identified and found to have been treated for his own injuries at a nearby hospital at which time he also registered a BAC more than three times the legal limit.
State pays victim of Trooper involved in crash - ( New Window )

ends hooliganism single handedly.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 11780634 Nitro said:

Quote:

ends hooliganism single handedly. Link - ( New Window )

It should be illegal to be that hammered off only having 3 beers. So in that perspective, the cop went easy on him. Right?

In comment 11780646 AnotherGiantsFan said:

Quote:

In comment 11780634 Nitro said: Quote: ends hooliganism single handedly. Link - ( New Window ) It should be illegal to be that hammered off only having 3 beers. So in that perspective, the cop went easy on him. Right?

Trollolololol

not post, because my thoughts are complicated, and I'm sure I won't get them out right. But here goes:

Every situation is different, of course. And I'm sure sometimes you could see a situation where a police officer looks to be using excessive force, and is really acting appropriately, but the video makes it seem like the cop(s) are being overly aggressive.

But, it certainly does seem now like the burden of physical violence has gone from when they are in fear for the safety of themselves and others, down to just people not fully, immediately complying with everything they say. I don't think we should be content with an answer of "Do what the cops say and you won't get beat" in this society.

Bill Maher had a great thing the other night about the militarization of these small town police forces, that now have tanks and grenade launchers they got from the military. And his point was basically that if you give someone a grenade launcher, they're going to find a reason they need to use a grenade launcher.

Doesn't totally correlate to these stories, which are about human force, but same principal I think. It does seem like all too often you really feel like they want you to disobey or question something they tell you to do so they can throw you to the ground and rough you up.

True of every cop in every situation? No, of course not. But I do think there's becoming more and more of it, and there's still a large percentage of people who could see 6 cops kicking an old woman for jaywalking, and would say "Well she shouldn't have been talking back."

Few things disturb, anger and scare me more than misappropriated power and authority wielded by people who aren't held accountable. Especially when wielded by abusive cops whose actions are condoned or dismissed by a power structure that bends over backwards to diminish their wrongdoings.

Yeah, right. Your word vs a cops... you always lose. Just another reason they are even able to abuse their power so badly.