I don't ever wish injury on anyone besides Mike Vick.. but I really hope Flores gets to play for a decent amount of time and get a real chance. He deserves it.
Tejada will only be on the short term concussion list and Wilmer will bat .500 with 6 home runs in 3 days and be shipped off to Siberia the second Tejada can tie his shoes.
is out and out defensive when it comes to being asked about making a move or something when implied Flores might have to come up. I swear Tejada is like his kid he feels a need to protect. WTF? Strange. Something is definitely going on there.
Nimmo 0 for 5, he's struggling at AA so far (.189)
Actually not unhappy with AA Nimmo. Walk rate holding steady, surge in HR power. It takes guys time to adjust, but it's nice to see Nimmo's "potential" power start translating to actual power now that he is out of SAV. In SAV, 25% of his hits were for extra bases. Upto 43% in AA is really good. And of course he's gotten better since his 1 for 20 AA debut.
1. The Mets have OPENLY ripped Tejada. Even Collins has!
2. They keep talking about attendance and getting the fans interested. Flores vs. Tejada isn't even close in this regard. I'm not even suggesting Flores sells a single extra ticket but I sure as hell am more interested in seeing him than Tejada. It's not as if Flores plays SS and absolutely sucks that you somehow hurt his trade value. It would just confirm what "most" think aka he's not a SS.
Flores pinch hit and lined out. I followed him back to the dugout right in front of me for some reason, he was sent down after the game and that might of been Wilmer Flores last at bat as a NY Met
Flores pinch hit and lined out. I followed him back to the dugout right in front of me for some reason, he was sent down after the game and that might of been Wilmer Flores last at bat as a NY Met
As dan sates above, it once again shows how the front office has absolutely no pulse of its fans. Zero.
Fans hate Tejada, are curious about Flores. Who plays and who is in AAA?
Fans saw CY was done very early in the season and were ready to move on. Who kept being force fed down our throats?
All offseason fans couldn't stop talking about Legares D. Yet all we heard about was finding playing time for EY.
Fans wanted to move on from iKe ASAP. Who was still on the team when they went up north?
Can keep going on and on about how clueless the front office is to what the real diehards want. The bandwagon fans will come out in droves when the team is winning, which is sooner rather than later.
I believe in Collins' head he genuinely believes that you simply can't field a defense with him and Murphy up the middle. I think he views it as an unsustainable long term plan (more than a week or two) and thinks Tejada has been good defensively and is fine with his approach at the plate.
In a year where the team is going nowhere I couldn't disagree with that assessment more, and hope that Flores gets a shot for a month or so at some point.
As dan sates above, it once again shows how the front office has absolutely no pulse of its fans. Zero.
Can keep going on and on about how clueless the front office is to what the real diehards want. The bandwagon fans will come out in droves when the team is winning, which is sooner rather than later.
It can be bad business to make baseball decisions based on what the fans want. Although I do agree with most of your points, you cant simply make moves because the fans want it. In regards to Tejada though, its a real head-scratcher.
that's the issue with a "lame duck" manager in a rebuilding season. I think Sandy is 99% hands off when it comes to playing time/lineup outside of setting innings limits for young pitchers. I think if you had a more stable manager you would see young guys given more of a shot.
was playing well I could handle it, but he's basically playing at a replacement level this year. Very low avg., no power, respectable OBP, mediorce defense. It's even more ridiculous that when Flores was up here they could've even give him 3 or so starts per week. Just completely baffling.
I wish our legion of 123849012380 beat writers had a spine and grilled Collins about this. Too bad they care about their access to the Mets more than asking the right questions.
1. Sandy openly said before the year that Tejada was not viewed as a "core" player.
2. Tejada is essentially playing to his ceiling. He's not some toolsy guy that you need to be patient on. He has zero power, zero speed and is average-ish at SS. It's not like we will sit here one day and go "good thing we were patient" ala Carlos Gomez or Jose Reyes.
that's the issue with a "lame duck" manager in a rebuilding season. I think Sandy is 99% hands off when it comes to playing time/lineup outside of setting innings limits for young pitchers. I think if you had a more stable manager you would see young guys given more of a shot.
I agree Dan. Collins has managed this season in a very game to game way, like his job has been on the line every day. Overusing guys in the BP, burying guys in the order, not giving certain guys some leeway to "get going". Whether or not he returns is going to be an interesting situation in the offseason.
2. Tejada is essentially playing to his ceiling. He's not some toolsy guy that you need to be patient on. He has zero power, zero speed and is average-ish at SS. It's not like we will sit here one day and go "good thing we were patient" ala Carlos Gomez or Jose Reyes.
Bingo on #2 Dan. I think that's a big part of the fan frustration also. Tejada has proven that he's a capable backup MLB IF. Doesnt' make sense to play him 100% of games out there.
Another thing - Collins is using this situation to make a point Â
Which is that he has to "go for it" and that he's not waving the white flag on the season, and the players he's been given to win games are what they are. So in other words, complain about how crappy Tejada is but that's what i've been given to win games and young potential doesn't change that equation. I think it's obviously backwards logic, because as everyone agrees Tejada is barely replacement level and brings no upside to the table, whereas Flores might and there's very little to lose. But it does allow Terry to say "how was I supposed to win games with Reuben Tejada as my SS".
This quote to me is very telling. And this is from a month ago when Tejada wasn't playing very well:
Quote:
“I certainly understand how it’s tough for them (Flores) to play once every three or four days, I certainly understand it, I certainly get it,” Collins said. “But unless the time comes where all of a sudden we’re going to go with our youngest players and try to get them better, right now we’ve got to try to win some games.
“It’s about going with the guys who are really getting it done at the moment. Ruben, the track record means something — that he’s been at this level. It’s a hard thing, a tough decision to make.”
My translation on the bolded part - if Sandy wants me to just play young players fine, but i'm making him force my hand because then the results are on him, not me.
He is what he is. If he plays the way he is capable of, he is a middle of the road major league SS (which isn't saying much). 15th-20th ranked SS in the league. Which is fine, if you build a lineup around him.
And as much as I might be the biggest Flores supporter on this site, he isn't a long term solution at SS. Realistically he should be playing 2B or 3B - which happen to be the only two positions that are somewhat settled on this entire roster.
But there is no harm in playing Flores at SS for a while. if he can handle the position adequately, you know you have a Murphy replacement at 2B and can move murphy. Or increase Flores trade value. Nothing bad could have come from a month or two of Flores starting everyday at SS. That I think is the issue every fan truly has with this.
He is atrocious with the bullpen and in game decision making, no doubt about that. But the reality is, Collins has a lot less say in playing time than most think.
He's been dealt a lousy roster, but it's not like he's done much of anything to make anyone better. If anything, his impact is a net negative because he has no idea how to manage a bullpen.
He is atrocious with the bullpen and in game decision making, no doubt about that. But the reality is, Collins has a lot less say in playing time than most think.
on topic, but is anyone else pissed up that the Cardinals get a bonus (late) first round "competitive balance" pick under the CBA? IMO, it's a complete joke.
on topic, but is anyone else pissed up that the Cardinals get a bonus (late) first round "competitive balance" pick under the CBA? IMO, it's a complete joke.
Well, it's a lottery. And the Cards fit the criteria. So hard to be pissed. Yet the system can certainly be tweaked to be better.
I think much more important, as a Mets fan, is how come no one Evers asks the question. If the Mets revenue is so low, why have they never been elegible for a pick? City size is only one criteria, but isn't revenue the other? Hmmmm
for squandering a top 5 market (even giving the Yankees more than 50% of the market)? Frankly, in a competitive balance/revenue sharing league, the Mets should be punished for what they've become. The so-so, fan-unfriendly Mets still get the 3rd best local ratings in baseball (NYY, DET), get $50+ million from SNY annually and essentially own the upside of the ratings thru their owners' 60% or 65% interest in SNY.
Rewarding the Mets for their low revenue/payroll is as stupid as all those years the Twins and Marlins were keeping payrolls as low as possible to get more revenue sharing (which was purportedly set up to promote competitive balance).
I think management (Coupons) will be bitter-enders this year. Start promoting Flores et al and the articles will be about how the Mets are giving up on the season. They wont sell any more tickets after that.
DMM's dichotomy between diehards and bandwagon fans misses the division among fans that management really cares about -- customers vs. people who watch the team on TV or follow them in the tabloids. It's not like diehards are the only ones buying tickets or attending games (they obviously want people to come and buy concessions even if they've already sold the tickets). There are businesses who use/give out tickets. There are people who just say "hey, lets hop on the train and see a game". That group isnt just diehards -- indeed, it's not necessarily majority diehards. It's just customers. And those customers may well be willing to come in September to see a non-tanking team, or may be more likely to renew season tickets if the team wins 80 than they would be if once again we give up and end up in the mid/low 70s.
Deej. Good points. But the problem has been the Mets the past couple of years have feared throwing in the towel. Winning 78 games vs 72 - who is the appealing to. Either one of those teams are attracting zero business customers and less casual fans. The 90+ team attracts those.
So with a 3-5 year plan, is it better to trade pieces (throw in the towel) for assets. Plus lose more games = better draft picks = better potential prospects. Chips acquired via trades plus better prospects means more 72 win seasons early, more likely to win 90+ wins at the end of your 3-5 year plan.
Bandwagon and business fans then come out in droves.
Deej. Good points. But the problem has been the Mets the past couple of years have feared throwing in the towel. Winning 78 games vs 72 - who is the appealing to. Either one of those teams are attracting zero business customers and less casual fans. The 90+ team attracts those.
So with a 3-5 year plan, is it better to trade pieces (throw in the towel) for assets. Plus lose more games = better draft picks = better potential prospects. Chips acquired via trades plus better prospects means more 72 win seasons early, more likely to win 90+ wins at the end of your 3-5 year plan.
Bandwagon and business fans then come out in droves.
I suspect you're wrong about some of this. Businesses ARE buying box seats. Maybe not at the rates they would be if we were winning, and obviously pricing is down, but businesses are still buying. And there is a real difference between winning 80 and winning 70 in terms of fan interest. One team sucks and one team is just okay. In terms of maximizing long term wins, Im not even sure that a total tank/rebuild is better than staying mildly competitive. Draft position has little to do with organizational success (unlike say NBA or NHL), whereas revenue really does correlate highly with success (again, unlike hard capped leagues). Not even clear that it's necessary to give guys ABs at the MLB level to "finish" developing them.
Note that none of this is to argue about Tejada -- I think there is a legitimate chances that we would win more 2014 games with Flores starting at SS and Tejada subbing. Im just trying to explain (not justify) what management might be thinking right now.
That's actually not true that there is no correlation. Going from early teens to late single digits gets about a 10% in likelihood of success. Getting into the top 5 increases success by about 30%. That's pretty big to me.
Great example. As good as the mets have drafted the past three yeArs. Anyone not willing to trade the last three draft picks with the Cubs prospects?
That's actually not true that there is no correlation. Going from early teens to late single digits gets about a 10% in likelihood of success. Getting into the top 5 increases success by about 30%. That's pretty big to me.
My post was very unclear. I meant team success. Sure you're going to get a player with better expected WAR at #1 than #15. But I'm reasonably sure that there is very little correlation between team success and prior draft slot. E.g. The team that drafts #1 overall is not necessarily expected to win more games over X years than the team that slots at #30 overall. Thus, unlike the NBA, you dont hear about teams tanking for draft position.
Knew he'd fail
We all see a lot of SS Terry Collins in Tejada
Link - ( New Window )
Swisher is the perfect guy to have on this Mets team.
7 IP, 7H, 2 ER, 1BB, 4K. 2.75 ERA in AA
Herrera 2 for 5, up to .360
Nimmo 0 for 5, he's struggling at AA so far (.189)
Gavin Cecchini sighting with a HR, but he's been struggling at A ball
Nimmo 0 for 5, he's struggling at AA so far (.189)
Actually not unhappy with AA Nimmo. Walk rate holding steady, surge in HR power. It takes guys time to adjust, but it's nice to see Nimmo's "potential" power start translating to actual power now that he is out of SAV. In SAV, 25% of his hits were for extra bases. Upto 43% in AA is really good. And of course he's gotten better since his 1 for 20 AA debut.
1. The Mets have OPENLY ripped Tejada. Even Collins has!
2. They keep talking about attendance and getting the fans interested. Flores vs. Tejada isn't even close in this regard. I'm not even suggesting Flores sells a single extra ticket but I sure as hell am more interested in seeing him than Tejada. It's not as if Flores plays SS and absolutely sucks that you somehow hurt his trade value. It would just confirm what "most" think aka he's not a SS.
Fans hate Tejada, are curious about Flores. Who plays and who is in AAA?
Fans saw CY was done very early in the season and were ready to move on. Who kept being force fed down our throats?
All offseason fans couldn't stop talking about Legares D. Yet all we heard about was finding playing time for EY.
Fans wanted to move on from iKe ASAP. Who was still on the team when they went up north?
Can keep going on and on about how clueless the front office is to what the real diehards want. The bandwagon fans will come out in droves when the team is winning, which is sooner rather than later.
In a year where the team is going nowhere I couldn't disagree with that assessment more, and hope that Flores gets a shot for a month or so at some point.
Can keep going on and on about how clueless the front office is to what the real diehards want. The bandwagon fans will come out in droves when the team is winning, which is sooner rather than later.
It can be bad business to make baseball decisions based on what the fans want. Although I do agree with most of your points, you cant simply make moves because the fans want it. In regards to Tejada though, its a real head-scratcher.
I wish our legion of 123849012380 beat writers had a spine and grilled Collins about this. Too bad they care about their access to the Mets more than asking the right questions.
I'm not a defensive metric guy, but Tejda with my eyes has been just barely average.
1. Sandy openly said before the year that Tejada was not viewed as a "core" player.
2. Tejada is essentially playing to his ceiling. He's not some toolsy guy that you need to be patient on. He has zero power, zero speed and is average-ish at SS. It's not like we will sit here one day and go "good thing we were patient" ala Carlos Gomez or Jose Reyes.
I agree Dan. Collins has managed this season in a very game to game way, like his job has been on the line every day. Overusing guys in the BP, burying guys in the order, not giving certain guys some leeway to "get going". Whether or not he returns is going to be an interesting situation in the offseason.
2. Tejada is essentially playing to his ceiling. He's not some toolsy guy that you need to be patient on. He has zero power, zero speed and is average-ish at SS. It's not like we will sit here one day and go "good thing we were patient" ala Carlos Gomez or Jose Reyes.
Bingo on #2 Dan. I think that's a big part of the fan frustration also. Tejada has proven that he's a capable backup MLB IF. Doesnt' make sense to play him 100% of games out there.
This quote to me is very telling. And this is from a month ago when Tejada wasn't playing very well:
“It’s about going with the guys who are really getting it done at the moment. Ruben, the track record means something — that he’s been at this level. It’s a hard thing, a tough decision to make.”
My translation on the bolded part - if Sandy wants me to just play young players fine, but i'm making him force my hand because then the results are on him, not me.
And as much as I might be the biggest Flores supporter on this site, he isn't a long term solution at SS. Realistically he should be playing 2B or 3B - which happen to be the only two positions that are somewhat settled on this entire roster.
But there is no harm in playing Flores at SS for a while. if he can handle the position adequately, you know you have a Murphy replacement at 2B and can move murphy. Or increase Flores trade value. Nothing bad could have come from a month or two of Flores starting everyday at SS. That I think is the issue every fan truly has with this.
How do you know this? Who sets the lineup?
Well, it's a lottery. And the Cards fit the criteria. So hard to be pissed. Yet the system can certainly be tweaked to be better.
I think much more important, as a Mets fan, is how come no one Evers asks the question. If the Mets revenue is so low, why have they never been elegible for a pick? City size is only one criteria, but isn't revenue the other? Hmmmm
Rewarding the Mets for their low revenue/payroll is as stupid as all those years the Twins and Marlins were keeping payrolls as low as possible to get more revenue sharing (which was purportedly set up to promote competitive balance).
DMM's dichotomy between diehards and bandwagon fans misses the division among fans that management really cares about -- customers vs. people who watch the team on TV or follow them in the tabloids. It's not like diehards are the only ones buying tickets or attending games (they obviously want people to come and buy concessions even if they've already sold the tickets). There are businesses who use/give out tickets. There are people who just say "hey, lets hop on the train and see a game". That group isnt just diehards -- indeed, it's not necessarily majority diehards. It's just customers. And those customers may well be willing to come in September to see a non-tanking team, or may be more likely to renew season tickets if the team wins 80 than they would be if once again we give up and end up in the mid/low 70s.
So with a 3-5 year plan, is it better to trade pieces (throw in the towel) for assets. Plus lose more games = better draft picks = better potential prospects. Chips acquired via trades plus better prospects means more 72 win seasons early, more likely to win 90+ wins at the end of your 3-5 year plan.
Bandwagon and business fans then come out in droves.
So with a 3-5 year plan, is it better to trade pieces (throw in the towel) for assets. Plus lose more games = better draft picks = better potential prospects. Chips acquired via trades plus better prospects means more 72 win seasons early, more likely to win 90+ wins at the end of your 3-5 year plan.
Bandwagon and business fans then come out in droves.
I suspect you're wrong about some of this. Businesses ARE buying box seats. Maybe not at the rates they would be if we were winning, and obviously pricing is down, but businesses are still buying. And there is a real difference between winning 80 and winning 70 in terms of fan interest. One team sucks and one team is just okay. In terms of maximizing long term wins, Im not even sure that a total tank/rebuild is better than staying mildly competitive. Draft position has little to do with organizational success (unlike say NBA or NHL), whereas revenue really does correlate highly with success (again, unlike hard capped leagues). Not even clear that it's necessary to give guys ABs at the MLB level to "finish" developing them.
Note that none of this is to argue about Tejada -- I think there is a legitimate chances that we would win more 2014 games with Flores starting at SS and Tejada subbing. Im just trying to explain (not justify) what management might be thinking right now.
Great example. As good as the mets have drafted the past three yeArs. Anyone not willing to trade the last three draft picks with the Cubs prospects?
My post was very unclear. I meant team success. Sure you're going to get a player with better expected WAR at #1 than #15. But I'm reasonably sure that there is very little correlation between team success and prior draft slot. E.g. The team that drafts #1 overall is not necessarily expected to win more games over X years than the team that slots at #30 overall. Thus, unlike the NBA, you dont hear about teams tanking for draft position.